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threeapples

Is this what finished hardwood floors should look like?

threeapples
9 years ago

The floors are done, with the exception of one last coat of polyurethane. I only have a few floors to compare with, but to me the "seams" between the boards looks large and the planks don't look flat. My husband noticed some areas where it appears they sanded "waves" into the planks and you can see patterns from the sander. I'm more concerned about the seams. Does anyone have comments based on these images? Thanks.

Comments (100)

  • gbsim1
    9 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Awful, just awful. What a crime to see filler between boards of rift oak.

    I gave all my helpful advice in earlier posts in this thread and I'd have never let this progress for another month down the same dead end road.
    Here's some advice from someone who's been married for 35 years and built two houses together....

    My husband and I had a slightly tongue in cheek saying during the builds of both of our homes. I say slightly because we actually meant it. It worked well for us.

    DH is well versed in construction and is detail oriented when it comes to plumbing, wiring and structural details, but he doesn't have an eye for interior detail, colors, style etc.

    Our mantra to the builder, subs, and each other once construction began was that with my blessing and minimal input from me, DH "handled" situations, had final say and made decisions on the fly concerning everything from the "plaster back".

    If it was going to be seen, in other words if it was from the plaster forward, it was my call.
    Obviously we discussed money and we each made suggestions, but in the end he bowed to my opinions on "plaster forward" and I respected his opinions "plaster back." Maybe the opposite is true in some marriages or maybe you've both got an "eye" for things, but for us, it was a clearcut choice.

    If this will work for you, ask your husband who has a better eye for detail and interior design. If he knows that it's you then put your foot down and call a halt to this madness. You've worked too hard on this lovely home to accept trashy floors.

  • _sophiewheeler
    9 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    The floors are continuing to dry out and the gaps are increasing. The filler that was placed in them is no longer enough to fill the gaps and it is coming apart. Filler should NEVER be used on floors except for small distinct areas with small localized problem. For the amount of time that it took for them to do that, they could have almost installed a whole new floor. Every bit of effort on this floor has been a complete waste. It should have been replaced from the beginning, but they strung you along and banked on the strife between you and your husband being enough to keep that from happening.

    I'd insist that the GC buy new wood and hire a new flooring company to install it. (And make sure that it's the quality of the wood you chose originally and not some cabin grade plain sawn box store crap.) He is the one that caused the whole issue by scheduling the install at the wrong time in the construction sequence. And then these idjuts went along with him. That's NOT who you want doing the new floors.

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  • threeapples
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Thanks to both of you. I texted these photos to my builder and he said he'd pass them along to the partial owner before our meeting. I'm going to talk to my husband about it tomorrow, hopefully convince him to get on board with replacing the floors (and I'll show him the photos on here as he just saw them in small version on my phone earlier) and then just flat out tell them I want them replaced when we have our meeting. What worries me though is that they might come out and say "no." Then what? They're only owed a certain % still, so they might rather lose the remainder than deal with new floors. And, I technically can't force my builder to replace them, right? Any ideas would be much appreciated. Thanks very much.

  • _sophiewheeler
    9 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Hire an totally impartial certified flooring inspector. If the builder chooses to not replace the floors after that report, then you could deduct their cost from the remaining money owed him for the whole build and then hire someone else to come in and replace them. The cost of any damages done due to the replacement should also be deducted. Now, he could file a lien on your home for doing that, but most likely he will not. And a lien is only a problem when you go to sell the home.

    Or, the other option would be to pay him what he's owed, but then take him to court for providing you with floors that are defective. That is where the certified flooring inspector's report will carry a lot of weight. However, going to court is pretty much a lose/lose proposition as you are probably over the dollar figure for small claims and would need to hire a lawyer. That will eat up the money, and even if you were awarded compensation and attorney's fees, it's a long standing practice for builder's who have these issues to just declare bankruptcy and then form a completely new company that wouldn't be liable for the previous ones debts.

    If they just hadn't tried the fill, you could have at least lied to yourself that the floors were "custom distressed to give the appearance of a 200 year old floor". And maybe settled for some money and gone on your way with not thinking about the problem but the once a week you ran a damp mop over them.

    The fill totally RUINS them. RUINS. Your husband can't lie to himself about them now. They look like hell with all of that fill chunking out of them. I guess the good news is that your builder cannot tell you with a straight face that there isn't anything wrong. Unless he's a psychopath that's very skilled in deception. He certainly is skilled at BSing his way past his incompetence.

  • ctlady_gw
    9 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Unreal! We just had 50-year-old floors refinished and they are GORGEOUS compared to what you have here. This is totally and absolutely unacceptable -- I have never seen anything like it before. You are dealing with idiots or con artists... or maybe some of both. Wake up!

  • gbsim1
    9 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    "Partial owner"??
    I've been assuming that all of these screwups were happening on the watch of your GC. Have you been dealing with a construction manager or a building supervisor all this time and not a GC?

    Is there an actual owner of a firm building your home who isn't there?

  • chispa
    9 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    JUST SAY NO! The buck stops with your GC, so if he doesn't have the floors replaced then you need to deduct the cost of replacement from the remainder of his payments. This is the way 99.9% of us would take care of this issue.

    The refinished 12 year old floors downstairs in my house don't look like this and the new 2 year old floors upstairs don't look anything like yours. We have nice tight seams and NO fillers.

  • threeapples
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Our builder is the owner of the company, I am talking about bringing the partial owner of the flooring company (Ohio Floors) out to see the floor. So far only their sales manager and finishers have met with us. I will demand new floors from the partial owner. My husband said we need to have an independent flooring consultant out to see the floors before this meeting. Should we just call another flooring company to do that?

  • threeapples
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    I know our builder cannot afford to pay for new floors. My husband thinks that because the boards are long and wide there is no way another company will be able to do better. Do any of you have long length 5" floors without these issues?

  • brickeyee
    9 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Wood moves throughout the heating and cooling seasons.

    You cannot stop it.
    The use of wider planks results in larger gaps in heating season as the wood dries.

    If you lay it with zero gap and filler in heating season it will simply proceed to buckle in cooling season when the humidity is higher and the wood expands.

    Narrower strips reduce the since of the gaps.

    Each piece of wood moves separately since only one side is nailed. The oter side is held in place by the groove trapping the tongue of the next piece.

    It sounds like you are asking for something beyond what a real wood floor is capable of doing.

    If you want joints that never move you need a floating floor that moves as a single large piece of wood.

    With room s the size you have you can then expect inches of required clearance to allow for movement of the wood on at least two sides, and possibly all four.

    See Chapter 3 of the 'Wood Handbook' for how wood moves.

    Figure 3-3 shows how position in the log affects changes in shape of the wood.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Chapter 3, Wood Handbook

  • ohbldr
    9 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Threeapples,

    Below is the name of an inspector I used in 2007. His name is Andrew Fronczek and he would service the area in which you are building.

    FloorWorks Inspection Services
    36230 Fawn Hill Place
    Willoughby Ohio
    44094

  • threeapples
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    I'm ok with gaps. I knew to expect that. I hate the filler and that some boards are higher than others, which us uncomfortable to walk on. I'm guessing its impossible to remove the filler.

    Thanks, I'll call Andrew today. I appreciate the info.

    Can those of you with wide planks post photos of your floors?

  • gbsim1
    9 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    I have 6" wide oak installed this fall. I'm away from home but will post pics this afternoon.

  • gbsim1
    9 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    I have 6" wide oak installed this fall. I'm away from home but will post pics this afternoon.

  • energy_rater_la
    9 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    carefully read holly's posts.
    good advice and knowledge in the postings.

    make a stand...and stick to it.

    or else like other 'issues' this won't be resolved.

    best of luck...again

  • dadereni
    9 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    If you have a GC there is no reason you should be dealing directly with anyone from the flooring company. The GC signs their checks, and you sign his.

  • gbsim1
    9 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Hope this helps you convince your DH that he's settling and paying for something that is substandard if he thinks 5" boards can't be flat.

    Here are our 6" rift and quartered oak floors. We included a percentage of character grade along with the select in order since we wanted some knotholes, color variation etc.

    Installed this fall and finished with Waterlox (no stain) in November. Main level of the house, Advantek plywood subfloor with basement below.

    I can skate and slide along the floors in my socks and not feel anything but smoothness even at the joints.

    I looked around and found some places where you can see what I consider normal wintertime gapping. Here are some closeups..

    This is one of the bigger gaps that I could find and this is a credit card to give you some scale. It won't go down in the crack.

    Looking down the length of few boards.

    Looking across.... there are about 13 horizontal joints in this photo as I think I counted 12 boards between the camera and the back of the sofa. As you can see it's flat.

  • threeapples
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    We don't directly deal with the flooring company, but have exchanged emails setting up meetings. Today I found a glob of orange-brown rubber in a board that had a large hole in it. Guess they did that in lieu of replacing the board!

    This post was edited by threeapples on Tue, Apr 9, 13 at 10:41

  • lavender_lass
    9 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    3apples- Demand they redo these floors! You'll never be happy with this sloppy job...and it will look even worse with your Georgian details throughout your home. So sorry this has happened, but insist that it's done right and I know you'll be glad you fought for your home.

  • energy_rater_la
    9 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    good info 3apples..but worthless if nothing is resolved.

    the many posts of yours deal with how things look.

    makes me wonder how much time was spent on
    things that you can't change later like
    insulation, air sealing & flashing.
    if you put half the effort into hvac choice & quality
    of install of ductwork, I'd be suprised.

    floors will cup when temps are not controlled.
    all the things listed above contribute to controlling
    both temp & moisture via air leakage.

    truly I wish you the best of luck.
    & hope that your builder/hvac/ DH
    put some effort into things that make the
    house comfortable, healthy & affordable to
    live in.

  • threeapples
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    We don't directly deal with the flooring company, but have exchanged emails setting up meetings. Today I found a glob of orange-brown rubber in a board that had a large hole in it. Guess they did that in lieu of replacing the board!

    {{!gwi}}

    This post was edited by threeapples on Sat, Apr 6, 13 at 16:44

  • _sophiewheeler
    9 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Unless you are related to the builder, who cares if "can't afford" to buy all new floors for your build. He shouldn't BE a builder then if he can't afford to correct his mistakes. He is an incompetent idiot that has somehow managed to charm you into not holding him accountable. It's the very essence of the con man to hang his head and promise to do better, and then screw you over again. And when he's called on it, he plays on your sympathies. He needs to fold, and not inflict his "services" on anyone else. But only after he's used all of his reserves and any bonds to take care of your problems. He IS licensed and insured, right? Current? Skip dealing with him and file a claim with his carrier first thing on Monday.

  • threeapples
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Energy rater, I honestly have no knowledge of hvac, insulation, etc., and wouldn't be able to determine whether mistakes were made. We had spray foam insulation and my husband was involved in determining the hvac decisions. Our flashing issues from before have been resolved, so hopefully that's ok. My husband and I divided responsibilities--he has dealt with structural projects and I've dealt with the aesthetics of the house, which is why that's really all my posts are about.

    Yes, the builder is licensed and insured. Nope, we're not related.

  • energy_rater_la
    9 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    so where did you put the foam?
    & was load calc done to determine size
    of system? what type of hvac system
    was installed...and where are the ducts/
    equipment located?
    was equipment downsized...not rule of thumb
    500 sq ft per ton? if not...problems will be
    ongoing.

    in my hot humid climate we put the
    wood flooring in the house several weeks
    before install, for it to acclimate.
    and of course, understand that wood expands
    & contracts.
    the first year, if the unit is correctly sized, the hvac system will remove excess moisture from building materials
    once wooden flooring has gone through both
    heating & cooling season the floors 'settle down'.

    Unless a finish is put on the flooring that doesn't
    allow moisture to exit the flooring.

    I didn't think that you were related to builder.

    but I do hope that you'll reach a resolution.
    Holly Springs is giving you excellent advice.

    best of luck.

  • Circus Peanut
    9 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    I know our builder cannot afford to pay for new floors.

    It puzzles me that you even know this. He actually told you this point-blank? Why is this a factor at all?

    You buy a new car. The car arrives with doors that have big ugly scratches all over them. You show this to the dealer. He says "Sorry, I can't afford to order you a new car, you'll just have to take the one with the scratches." What would your reaction be? Would you just shrug and say "Oh well, I guess he can't afford to replace it, we'll keep it even though we paid full price for a brand-new car." Somehow I doubt even your husband would say that.

    Look: you paid your contractor for very expensive new floors. That's the contract. Nothing else matters, and nobody else in the chain of supply is your problem. If he doesn't provide very expensive new floors, he is in breach of contract. It's up to him to light fires under his non-performing flooring subcontractors, not you.

  • energy_rater_la
    9 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    so where did you put the foam?
    & was load calc done to determine size
    of system? what type of hvac system
    was installed...and where are the ducts/
    equipment located?
    was equipment downsized...not rule of thumb
    500 sq ft per ton? if not...problems will be
    ongoing.

  • threeapples
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    I know of the builder's finances by way of conversations the subs have brought to us. I don't know the direct details. My husband thinks if we demand new floors they will tell us they are acceptable and bring out someone who will attest to that.

    I'm looking very forward to talking to the independent inspector.

    This post was edited by threeapples on Sat, Apr 6, 13 at 21:57

  • threeapples
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    gbsim, your floors are gorgeous and that's what i expected mine to look like. I'll show my husband and my builder your photos. Thanks for taking the time to post them.

  • chispa
    9 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Of course your GC is going to give the subs some sad story about his lack of money ... he wants the best deal from the subs.

    I would demand new floors first and then negotiate backwards if there truly is a money issue for the GC. Although it really isn't your problem. Ask for 100% and then settle for less, if you have to. You guys are being so passive and easy to manipulate ... the GC has you starting at 0% and hopes you will take 10% and be thankful to him.

    This is why some here have been a bit annoyed with you. You ask for help and then state every reason why you can't do what has been suggested ... even when it is the action that 99.9% of us would take to resolve the issue.

  • threeapples
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Just had a very helpful conversation with a certified flooring inspector who explained that boards of slightly different heights are not professional and that excessive use of filler is also not. He thinks we may have "white line syndrome," and I agree. It is his opinion that we should first meet with the flooring company and find out why we have such large gaps (quarter sawn red oak is not prone to gaps like straight cuts), and see if they can refinish the floors to our expectations. If that meeting produces no helpful results we should have him inspect it and take it from there.

  • gbsim1
    9 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    I'm not sure that refinishing the floors is a possibility. With all that filler and the cupping, I'd assume you were looking at new floors. Can't imagine why any reputable flooring company and builder couldn't see this.... hopefully it will all work out for you.

    Just so that you are speaking everyones language, you don't have quartersawn wood. Or at least much of it.... most of your wood is rift sawn. It's not quite as stable as quarter, but almost.
    Our oak in the photos that I posted above is mix of rift and quarter sawn, probably about 60% quarter to 40 rift and we paid for it accordingly. 100% quarter is more expensive. Your contract should have been clear on the percentage of rift to quarter that you were getting if you were indeed getting a combination of the two. There were several options of percentages with our supplier when we were selecting our flooring.

    With your dark stain, it's a bit hard to see in the photographs, but I remember back before it was stained and in the cupping phase, it seemed to be almost all if not entirely rift. If you paid for quarter sawn (which is more expensive), this is another issue with your flooring contractor.

  • threeapples
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Yes, we did choose the % or rift vs quartersawn. I'll have to ask my husband what that % was and find out. To me I can't really tell the difference, but this is a very good point and I will definitely check on this.

  • gbsim1
    9 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Oops! I got it wrong... I think that rift is more dimensionally stable than quarter.... maybe someone who's a flooring pro can chime in.

    The price variance between the two types of wood differs too depending on your width and thickness.

    We preferred quarter sawn in general... we used stained oak everywhere, but had problems with some of the woodwork in our house since quarter wasn't available in the wider widths we needed for some of the crown and baseboards. For some of our wood trims, quarter was more expensive and for others it was rift.

    Very easy to tell the difference. Rift is very linear.... "straight" lines to the grain. All of the photos I've seen of your wood is rift. Quarter has "flecking", with wavy little swirls and "commas". If you look at my photos above, you can easily pick out the rift and the quarter.

  • threeapples
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    We are supposed to have 70% rift, the remainder should be quarter-sawn. I have no idea if they followed through on this ratio, however.

  • gbsim1
    9 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Rift is a good choice for you anyway now that I think about your more formal Georgian.
    We've got a prairie/craftsman style and wanted to emphasize the grain and character of the wood. You've got more important detailing in your moldings etc and don't need your floor competing for attention.

  • Xclusive
    9 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    •Posted by chispa (My Page) on Sat, Apr 6, 13 at 22:07

    This is why some here have been a bit annoyed with you. You ask for help and then state every reason why you can't do what has been suggested ... even when it is the action that 99.9% of us would take to resolve the issue.


    I really hope you get your issue resolved but this post couldn't have summed it up any better about how I feel when I read your post and the reason I normally never respond! As stated several times stick up for yourself and don't roll over to a little resistance. You aren't asking for anything extra, just what you paid for!!!!

  • brickeyee
    9 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Flat sawn, quarter sawn, rift sawn, it all still moves.

    Quarter sawn is usually marginally less, and tends to marination its rectangular shape slightly better than other cuts, but it ALL still moves.

    See the link below to the Wood Handbook and look at figure 3-3.

    If you look in the tables you will notice that tangential ad radial shrinkage are NOT the same percentage.

    the closer the are the more stable the shape of te wod is.

    The limited change in humidity indoors compared to outdoors meas you will not see the full movement of wet to oven dry, but it still will show.

    If you had a floor ten feet wide that moved 1%, that is still a total change in width of 1.2 inches.
    If you have strips 2.5 inches wide there are 48 strips to get to 10 feet.

    Each moves about 0.05 inches, about 3/64 inch.

    Use 5 inch wide pieces and the total movement stays the same, but there are fewer gaps. They double in size though.

    They are going to be from around 0 when tight in the summer to about 0.1 inch in the winter.

    NOTHING can stop this movement except a perfectly constant humidity.
    It can never vary.

    While it is possible to control humidity tightly, almost no residential HVAC system does all that much to control it.

    Most do not even sense it unless you add a humidifier and then it at least adds some moisture during heating season.

    Systems that control for humidity normally chill the air year round to remove water, then re-heat and humidify back to the desired point.

    Think of your heating AND cooling being on year round.

    Even museums usually only do it in side small cases.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Chapter 3, Wood Handbook

  • lavender_lass
    9 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    3apples- I know it's difficult to be the only one in the room to stand up for something...even when you know you're right. I'm so glad your DH and inspector are backing you, now. It's not always easy to insist that things be done right...but I'm very proud of you for not backing down :)

  • threeapples
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Brickeyee, I know it will move and expand. I don't like that the wood wasn't sanded evenly or the cracking filler between the planks.

    I spoke with two local hardwood flooring companies today and both told me filler should be used minimally, not the entire length of boards for the very reason I have illustrated. Both thought it very unprofessional our wood was installed before exterior doors and before the house was in live able condition.

    I'm still waiting on the meeting with the flooring company owner and to hear back from the inspector upon sending him more info and photos.

    Thanks, Lavender.

  • millworkman
    9 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Hindsight is 20/20, most everyone told you that when they first started installing the flooring. Get it changed now before you move in, once your in with furniture it will be a royal PITA and then a greater expense to the builder as he will have to pay to move and protect your furniture, clean the entire house thoroughly as well as inconvenience the hell out of you!

  • kellyeng
    9 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Yeah, it's all well and good that everyone keeps harping that the builder is responsible. Yes, the builder is responsible for making sure his floor mess is completely corrected down to the subfloor and beyond.

    But in the real world, the builder is hardly ever held to his responsibilities. Why? Because you have to sue. What do most homeowners prefer to do? They prefer to finish their house instead of spending their dwindling money on trying to get water from a stone.

    Good luck, 3apples. Push as hard as you can to make the floors and anything else right.

  • brickeyee
    9 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    HVAC needs to be on and running, and all the painting done before the floors are even installed (let alone the doors being installed to let the HVAC operate).

    Painting puts a huge amount of humidity into the house, and that needs to be removed before the flooring goes in.

    This sounds like a screw up from start to finish.

    Whomever tried to fill the gaps was probably trying to respond to your complaints.

    when very wide planks used to be used for floors (think 19 inch wide pine) it was not uncommon to fill the resulting gaps with rope and other soft materials that at least helped fill the gaps while still allowing movement.

    Few of these floors have survived since they rarely had adequate T&G and had multiple nails in the face to hold them down leading to splitting when shrinkage occurred.

    The advent of central heat did not improve things much.

    The GC knows he has you in a bad spot.
    You want the job finished and the house habitable.
    Delay plays against you.

    You can have all the inspections you want, and look back with 20-20 hindsight on what was done incorrectly, but none of this will get the job completed.

    Sounds like a less than well experienced GC and the same for the floor installer.

    Probably the only thing you can practically do at this point is get some money back, like the entire cost of the defective floor installation and the materials wasted on the job.

  • chispa
    9 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    kellyeng, 3apples has the advantage right now. They have not closed yet, so I'm assuming they still owe the GC a fair amount of money. Once 3apples closes then it will be much harder or impossible to get the builder to fix anything. Why would they have to sue if they haven't paid for everything yet? The 3apple family needs to demand they get the product that is in the contract or just accept a damaged/inferior product, move on and never bring it up again.

    If they still owe money to the GC, why pay him for shoddy work? If there is a loan involved, can you get support from your bank rep? Why would they want to lend on a shoddy product? Can they pressure the builder? Did/does the bank have a relationship with the GC?

    Based on what I paid for hardwood 2 years ago, I'm assuming this is at least a $50k problem (retail cost, hardwood on 2 floors).

  • kellyeng
    9 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Chispa, only 3apples knows how much financial influence she has over her builder.

  • threeapples
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    I don't feel comfortable posting financial information online, but, yes, we have financial leverage. There are drawbacks to this, however.

    I still have not heard about a meeting time yet, but am really hoping it still happens this week.

  • energy_rater_la
    9 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    "Yes, if you and your husband are not in accord on this, then it's sure to be exploited by the builder. And it's sure to introduce strife into your relationship as well. If you're not happy with the floors, but your husband is, then you need to pick your battles. You've had enough other issues on this build where having your husband's support to correct is vital. "

    this is a very good point.
    as are several made in this thread.
    movement of wood,,,floating flooring use of fillers etc.
    but none of it solves anything if it isn't put into effect.

    expecting perfect just isn't going to happen,
    having the correct install should be the goal.

    the reason I asked twice about where the foam
    insulation was installed, and if load calc was done for
    hvac is for a good reason. granted you can't see it..which
    seems to be your main view, but different types
    of foam insulation allow moisture to exit, others don't.
    hvac removes humidity. high relative humidity inside
    a house will cause wood to swell. low rh causes it
    to shrink.
    new builds have a lot of RH. moisture content of lumber
    used for framing, subfloor...sheetrock mud, paint all
    add to RH load.

    wooden flooring should always be put inside the house
    several weeks prior to install....with hvac system running.
    this acclimates the wood so that you don't have cupping
    gaps etc.

    I realize that this is an excellent place to vent your
    building frustrations...but ignoring the good advice you
    get here isn't solving anything.

    understand that you are one house. GC will build other
    houses & has a working relationship with insulator, hvac company, flooring co...and so on.
    each will do cya for each other so that the warranty
    runs out. and then you are left with substandard
    flooring...brick whatever flavor it is today.
    they build and move on..you live there.

    the one advantage you have is that the gc hasn't been
    paid in full. and having been to court for my own clients...it doesn't often go the way you want.
    its that cya good ol boy network.

    you & your husband need to chose what you can
    live with and can't live with.
    complaining about every little thing puts you on
    gc/builder/sub's sh!t list.
    not saying it is fair...but it is the way it is.
    construction is a tough field with good and bad
    players.

    chose your battles, stick to your guns & keep your
    complaints short to the point, factual & without
    getting on an emotional rollercoaster, as it will
    only make things worse. let your husband handle
    it if you can't distance yourself from your feelings.

    it isn't about making friends...it is about getting what
    you paid for in a huge investment that you will live
    in for years.

    IMO this thread is like a train wreck...one can't help
    but see the latest advent.
    I'm not trying to put you on the defensive, but as
    a woman in a man's field of work...these are
    the things I've learned.

    best of luck.

  • southerncanuck
    9 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    I have spent the last half hour or so reading this interesting thread. only until energy rater and brickeyee piped in did anyone go to the root cause of the problem, humidity loading and not acclimatizing the wood product prior to install.

    Those floors are an utter abomination. I wouldn't accept that quality of workmanship for garage siding.

    Why isn't this scenario on the flooring forum?

    And yes you have been given some good advice and some great advice however you seem to not heed most of it after you have asked for help. For example meeting with the owner of the flooring company, He can say, yes Madam that floor needs to be replaced but unless Mr. GC pays me to do it all over again I won't. You shouldn't even know his name.

    In Ontario when there is a dispute between builder and customer and money is withheld those funds are held by a third party to show that the homeowner is simply trying to not pay for a product or service, it holds much more water down the line when a dispute goes to Superior Court. I don't think you are willing to go that far based on how I perceive your personality.

    All or most builders cry poverty, it appeases the subs. one rule of business is to never let it be known to employees or creditors where one resides. Hard to cry poor when there is 1/2 million dollars in cars and a 50' boat moored at your private dock at your Mc Mansion.

    Very interesting thread, good stuff for a HGTV reality show.

    I feel for you, now go out and insist your GC replace that mess or you will spend every waking moment using every social media tool to tell everyone that will listen what type of a GC you ar dealing with. It is only liable when you spew an untruth, there isn't anything untrue about this mess as far as I can see.

    Good Luck and find your backbone or cover the floor with carpeting and be done with it.

    I thought there was an organization in the US that arbitrates such flooring disputes?

  • Scott Nichols
    9 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Three Apples, what color is your floor finished? That is a very nice color over a large area. We are having new hardwood installed in a couple of weeks. The quarter sawn boards are gorgeous.

  • threeapples
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Pscott,sorry that I just saw your question. The color is a custom blend.

    I have no updates. I still don't like the floors and regret the whole situation. The company doesn't seem to care about my dissatisfaction. I'd never recommend them and wish we didnt use them.

  • Dumitavi
    8 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    While it’s hard to show the imperfections in floor sanding in a picture, the “seams” between boards are cracks, which have been caused by the wood floor drying out due to improper or no acclimatization.
    The “waves” are also the result of improper sanding. The belt sander, when going down the boards, leaves some lines that are more noticeable on lower grids like 36-60 grid, and even more noticeable when the person that sands the floor doesn’t keep the machine straight during sanding.
    A color like yours, which seems to be walnut, is even more sensitive to sanding mistakes since, the darker the stain, the more obvious imperfections are.
    In order for your floor to look right, the installation and sanding process, should’ve been done along these lines:
    Installation:
    • Install all the doors in the house
    • Install the HVAC system and a humidifier with it
    • Turn HVAC on, set it at 69-70 degrees, and the humidifier at 35%
    • Bring the wood in and allow it to sit in the unit, for about a week
    • Install the wood and let it sit, unfinished, for another week or more
    Sanding:
    • Sand the floor and the edges with 36 grid paper
    • Apply wood filler throughout
    • Sand the floor and the edges with 60 sanding paper
    • Sand the floor again with 80 grid sanding paper
    • Buff the floor very well
    • Wash the floor to open the pores of the wood and ensure a more uniform application of the stain
    • Apply the stain
    • Let it dry overnight
    • Apply the floor finish
    • Buff the floor
    • Apply the floor finish
    Apparently, in your case, few steps were skipped:
    • No acclimatization
    • No wood filler, or minor filling was done
    • Sanding was done with two papers instead of three. While an experienced floor sander could do it with two papers, your guys don’t seem to fall in that category.
    • Buffing the floor was done in an improper manner
    • Washing the floor probably didn’t take place

    Here is a link that might be useful: Steps Skipped During Floor Sanding