Shower Curbs Bill/Mongo...?'s again

15 years ago

I just saw your great pics in another thread Bill, the one regarding installation of those small brick tiles. The pics are fantastic, and I can see why you're proud of them. However, they brought up yet another question regarding our own installation. (Didn't want to hi-jack the thread)

To refresh your memory, we've gutted the bathroom & are building a walk in shower with about a 50 inch opening. The shower door will be a semi frameless sliding door with a metal frame that attaches to the curb. Our PITA contractor keeps saying we need bullnose for the curb and edges of the shower, claiming without it, the grout lines can be kind of rough on the curb and ugly on the edges. I saw what he wants to do in a vinette at the Tile Shop. It does have a pretty clean look and as usual I'm sure it's the method of least resistance for him. I wouldn't really have a problem with it, but that bullnose isn't cheap. I don't know how many mosaic sheets would be required vs. how many 11.8 inch bullnose pieces, but most likely it will cost a lot more to use the bullnose than the mosaic. And as we've discussed in other threads, I'm not thrilled about paying more just for the sake of convenience. The new tile store I'm really interested in buying from doesn't even carry bullnose. So can you tell me about the different options for covering a curb, what YOUR preferred method is for the best result. If the means are more expensive, but justify the out come, it's worth it to us to spend the extra, we just want to be sure it's for the right reasons. Thanks once again.

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Comments (10)

bill_vincent
15 years ago
This is an easy one. My preferred method is shown in the pics below. It's not only no more expensive, but it also gives the curb a solid surface, meaning less chance for leaks, as well as a much better surface on which to mount a door:

Using a 6" wide threshold, as shown in all of these pics, will also provide for a slight "drip edge" overhanging about a 1/2" into the shower, as well, also helping with making sure any water gets to where it should be going (down the drain).

It's a winning situation all the way around. It's no more expensive for the contractor, it's CERTAINLY much easier to install, makes for a cleaner look for the customer, and makes for a bettwer surface for the glass guy to work with.

Everybody wins.
User
Original Author
15 years ago
Bill, I apologize and hate to be a PITA but I forgot to write about the thresholds in my post. That was the first suggestion from the contractor for the exact reasons you mentioned, but I HATE those things. The previous owners of our house installed one as the threshold between the guest bath and the hallway, and it looks horrible. (and changing it is on my Honey Do list) Needless to say, I nixed the idea before the contractor could even finish getting the words out of his mouth. I might be more inclined to use one if it was available in slate, but I've only seen them in travertine or marble and I don't think they'd work well with the slate we've chosen...

That said, I caught that you mentioned a smooth surface, and I'm betting that either 4x4 tiles or the two bull noses facing each other is probably the next best option, (as opposed to say a mosaic) yes?
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Gotcha. I'd say do the shower floor just like it was a nobelseal shower floor. Run the membrane across the floor and up the wall studs/blocking to a height about 3" above the top height of the curb. Check into that 3" minimum, I think that's what Nobel recommends. It can be nailed or stapled to the studs at the top edge of the membrane. You can detail the corners as they are supposed to be. The thing to watch out with when using thicker membranes like Nobelseal is that several overlaps can cause the bottom edge of the backer board to get "kicked out" into the shower if the overlaps will be trapped between the backer board and the wall framing. Regardless, there are several ways to detail the corners, you can fold them, or cut and overlap, or use preformed corners. Or tuck the membrane into the corner. With tucked, just make sure that the tucked part doesn't flop down in the corner, you want the top of the tucked edge to stay 3" above the flood plain, or 3" above the top of the curb. Each corner method has its pluses and minuses, see which is best for you based upon your situation. That build-up when overlapping, though, that's why you'll see references to notching wall studs, etc, when using thicker membranes. Anyhow, after the floor membrane is installed, install your backer board on the wall. Hold it about 1/4" or so of the floor. Fill and seal that 1/4" gap with a Nobel sealant or its equivalent. Now if you were running nobel membrane on the walls, you'd run it on the walls and butt it to the floor membrane, sealing that butt joint with a bead of nobel sealant. However, since you're using Kerdi, you can do one of a few things: 1) Install the wall Kerdi just like it was nobelseal membrane, butting the Kerdi on the wall to the Nobel on the floor, and seal the wall-to-floor membrane joint with sealant. This might be the best way due to the uncertainties about overlapping Kerdi and Nobel that I'll talk about in a bit. 2) Run the wall membrane down the wall and lap it onto the floor membrane 3" or so, thinsetting the Kerdi membrane to the nobelseal on the floor. If you do this though, you might need to run a couple of beads of sealant between the Kerdi and the nobel where they overlap on the floor. 3) Any of the other typical "Kerdi" options, which would be running the wall membrane down onto the floor like in #2 above, or using Kerdi band to seal them, etc. Again, though, where Kerdi overlaps Nobel, you might need a couple of beads of nobel sealant. Regardless of which you chose, I'd call Nobel and Schluter and run the options past them. I think option #1 is pretty straightforward and safe. My concern is that while a Kerdi-Kerdi overlap can be made watertight with a 2" overlap and thinset, Nobel requires nobel-nobel overlaps to have two beads of sealant to make that overlap watertight. Essentially, the Kerdi-Nobel overlap is untried and untested, so two beads of sealant might be best. But it's still untested. However, (and it's a big however) the overlap really doesn't really have to be watertight. With the nobel floor membrane running several inches up the walls, it's like a traditional CPE shower pan. There's your waterproofing. All you really need were you to overlap Kerdi on to Nobel is that the overlap not delaminate. With thinset being able to adhere to the fabric of both membrane, that shouldn't be a problem.
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Totally agree with Bill. It's your house, not his. Now, there can be leeway due to materials. If the tile plan was not set forth in stone (no pun intended) when the person bid on the job, and he bid the job at a "generic labor rate" for ceramic, then come installation time you spring very beautiful but very uneven and somewhat tedious to install handmade and home-fired tile...sure, he's got reason to talk. Because your material choice form left field just blew his labor estimate out of the water. Three hours is more than adequate to install, waterproof, and tile a custom framed niche. Even kerdi it.
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In a typical shower the rough wall height versus tile size differential could have been made up by the thickness of the mud used to shape the pan. With a curbless you lose that ability, as you have 96" of wall height to cover and four full tiles plus grout lines comes up to roughly 95". Ideally (my opinion) it would have been taken care of during the design phase. Personally I'd like to see a full course at the floor, with the bottom edge of that botom course of tile being cut to match the floor slope. As to how to deal with the extra inch? That's where "it depends" comes in to play. Any solutions depend on the style of your bathroom as well as what looks right to you. The 1" gap could have been left at the ceiling, and the 1" of wall could have been painted the same color as the ceiling. Or it could be filled in with trim, either wood or tile. Or a portion or all of the ceiling could have been dropped an inch inside the shower. Or you could have split the installation of the wall tiles at any one of the three horizontal grout lines, and inserted a 1" wide liner or deco strip running horizontally around the shower between courses of your 24" tile. But to me it depends on the style of the room. However, in my opinion, a wedge sliver of wall tile going from 1" to nothing at the floor would be the least desirable. If he's leaving you with a wedge shaped gap below the bottom course of full wall tile, an idea might be to use floor tile to fill in that wedge. That way the wedge would blend with the floor instead of sticking out like a sore thumb on an otherwise totally slick wall. But again, these are all "it depends" ideas. Some might work, some might sound horrific, or all might sound horrific. It really does depend on the style of the room. Side comment; some areas (code-wise) do not allow the shower floor to slope to the door. Often times curbless showers with trench drains have to be sloped away from the door, with the trench drain on the back wall. Might not be applicable in your locale, but I thought I'd toss it out. I hope you find a decent solution.
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Your comments make me think there are specific reasons that the GC isn't coordinating this? Well, if the inexperienced GC is only giving you "loose directions", did you at least read this before you proceeded? Prior to using any slc, you really need your ducks lined up. You need all your prep work done, especially sealing any crevices that the slc could flow through. You need to contain the slc to get a level finished area. You also need to have your helpers lined up and they need to know their roles in the process. Who is mixing the next batch, who is transporting, who is placing, who is leveling, who is cleaning. The key to placing slc is to do it in one "continuous" pour, you want to be placing the second batch before the first batch is past its open time. If the floor is so out of whack that you have an excessive thickness of slc to be placed, then it can either be done in separate lifts, or you can ditch the slc and do a mud floor. From your post I don't know what the scope of the project is - are you just leveling the area under the shower base, or are you leveling the entire bathroom floor? Were this my project, and the floor was really nasty, I'd consider pulling the subfloor and leveling the floor joists (new joists sistered to the existing or tapered shims on top of the existing). Presumably it's not too bad since you're going the slc route. For slc I'd prep the existing floor. Re-nail what's there, and if needed, add another layer of ply. Then add a rim to contain the slc. Rim the drain so the slc doesn't flow down the drain hole. Seal any cracks in the underlayment/subfloor. Prime the underlayment/subfloor if required with an slc primer. If needing several batches and doing this DIY, try to have a 3-person crew. One to mix, one to transport the product from the mixer to the placer and clean the buckets after the product is placed, and a third person to place the slc. At a minimum you need two people, one to mix, another to place. You need to be a well-coordinated crew as you don't want cold joints from one batch of slc to another. As far as placing the terrazzo base, as long as the subfloor is level, the drain holes line up and the area is properly framed, it's not that difficult. Mongo
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bill_vincent
15 years ago
Actually, the one in the very first pic (with the bordeaux marble) IS slate. It would be more expensive because it would have to be custom fabricated, but it CAN be done, As the people with the last shower pictured also did, taking a piece of the lapidus slab their vanity top come from and had it made into the threshold for the shower. Granted, you'll only find the carrara and crema marfil thresholds in stock at most places. That doesn't mean they're the only ones that can be had. I've set thresholds made ot of everything from blue pearl to corian.
MongoCT
15 years ago
I've used soapstone before for a shower curb.

The piece was from a project I had laying around from previous work, but you could probably score a remnant from a stone yard for a few dollars.

It's dark, sort of the same color family as slate. Not a perfect match but I thought I'd give it a shot.

But I do like a solid piece curb for many of the reasons Bill mentioned, plus that it can be a slightly contrasting color, and the color difference will set it off visually, making it easier to not stub your toe on.
User
Original Author
15 years ago
ohhh...Now that's an interesting option!!! Hmmmmm...I think I'm going to make some calls on Monday, if I can't find some way to have it done in slate, maybe I can opt for the soapstone, which could look really sweet or...we had to buy 1/2 slab of granite for our counters, maybe I can have the fabricator make a threshold with that. As a matter of fact, I'm sure there will be enough granite left over that he could make a matching bench and shelves for inside the shower too! Thanks Guys!!! You Rock!
bill_vincent
15 years ago
Thanks Guys!!! You Rock!

Not always- sometimes it's ceramic. :-)

I crack myself up. :-)
User
Original Author
15 years ago
Sometimes you crack us up too! :c)
jjaazzy
15 years ago
Having just ripped out a shower that had a tiled curb using bull nose and tile your better off finding some sort of material that will match your tile that is solid surface. You could even use a honed piece of granite that might match better. Mine failed so miserably and stunk! Literally every time I took a shower I was reminded that I had better get to this bathroom redo sooner then later, the smell was disgusting.
User
Original Author
15 years ago
Thanks for the feedback jjaazzy, Sorry to hear you had such a problem, I plan on calling our granite fabricator tomorrow to see if I can't get a piece of our slab fabricated into a threshold.
jjaazzy
15 years ago
Good deal lukkirish you will be happy you did.

Shower Curbs Bill/Mongo...?'s again

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