My first choice was Miele. But I brought in my every day dishes to try them out and they did not fit. Ended up ordering the KA KUDE70 - results TBD.

FYI - There is a $200 KA rebate on the dishwasher through March 21. I think you have until April 30 to send it in. See link.

Here is a link that might be useful: KA Rebate

We had KA in our previous home & chose Miele for our present home. Both do a great job cleaning, but Miele does it better for us. We have more flexibility in loading our Miele because it doesn't have an exposed heater ring requiring "top load" for sensitive items. Our Miele Excella has a Sensor cycle that is the equivalent of a top rack cycle but controls the length of the cycle by determining how dirty it is. Miele is a lot quieter.

I can't make any comment about Whirlpool USA makes (KitchenAid,Maytag,WP).

My sister has a brand new Miele (model not available in N.America, between the Optima and the Excella)
It is almost silent, like a silent fridge. Go figure the hob gas burners are noisier.

Despite is really water miser it does a great job in cleaning. Even orange juice soiled glasses, chocolate soiled mugs and cereal soiled bowls come out clean **even from the raised foldable shelves**.

My current 10 y.o. AEG dishwasher cleans well but not that way. Dirty glasses/mugs don't get clean on the shelves, but only if loaded straight in the rack, otherwise they need a prerinse under the faucet.

If you do want dry plastics as soon as you ope the door, I suggest you to use Finish Turbo Dry rinse aid. Works great even in my machine (hidden heater, non fan, no condenser)
Since early nineties whatever euro-made dishwasher has a hidden heating element that doesn't work while drying. Drying effectiveness relies on last rinse temp. Then Miele, Bosch/Siemens and euro Electrolux brands have an internal moisture condensing sistem, while euro WP makes have a exaust blower

Just check Miele service in your place. I have read here some scary stories. For sure it is no near to european Miele service, that's very efficient anywhere you live, be in a city or in a small village in the bushes

Gizmonike, be aware your "Sensor" cycle (here called "Automatic") is not a gentle cycle, but a normal one and works in both racks.

The turbidity sensor controls soil level, while another sensor checks load size, then the machine adds prewash and extra rinses, extends wash time when necessary and sets wash temp since 45°C (113°F) up to 65°C (153°F) depending on soil level (last rinse always 153°F)

But also your "china/crystal" (here "Automatic glass") works the same way, but with lower temps, 40°C-105°F up to 48°C-119°F in main wash, 55°C-130°F in the last rinse

When turbo option is selected the main wash is shortened but the cycle will use the highest temp allowed (so 153°F on "sensor", 119°F on "china/glass"

I can't speak to Miele, but I have had KA dishwashers for years and love, love, loved them. I don't think you'll regret your choice. Plus I've always had good results with customer service from Kitchen Aid. Good luck.

I am able to put plastic on both racks of my KitchenAid KUDE dishwasher as long as I secure the plastic lids in the netted compartment, or clip them (the top rack has clicks on some of the prongs)unless the container is big enough not to slide under the racks where it will melt if you use the heat dry. I love the heat dry that gets most of my plastic dry also. I love cutlery top rack that allowed me to remove the cutlery basket to have more room for pots, pans, plates, and dishes to wash.

I love how quiet my dishwasher is and how clean the dishes come out. the Miele looked nice also but the KitchenAid had more room inside and I was able to negotiate a great price for the top of the line dishwasher whereas, Miele does not allow much room for negotiation.

At first I was upset that the stainless steel differed in grain and shading from my LG Refrigerator, but now that I replaced my range with a GE Range and a different manufacturer's range hood (forgot the name), the appliances look nice together in my opinion and I love the features of each one.

I don't think Kitchenaid is available fully integrated (i.e., flush with existing cabinetry) so if you are planning on panelling it that may be important to you.

I just made the same choice after looking closely at the Mieles and Askos... I've had a louder Kenmore of the same whirlpool lineage without problems for years, so the top-of-the-line KitchenAid that's advertised as 41dBA seemed like a safe bet and a good value for our remodel (just ordered it). User-posted reviews confirm it is very quiet.

My only regret is that it doesn't have its own water heater, and if it's like our current Kenmore I'll need to run water in the adjacent sink until it's hot for good results (a waste of H20).

The model that I think the OP is referring to (and the one I've ordered) is linked to below. Available in stainless and panel-ready.

Here is a link that might be useful: reportedly very quiet KitchenAid dishwasher

Brianmeek, Are you sure that the water isn't heated in some way to a certain temperature before the cycle will start? It takes a long time for me to get hot water in my kitchen sink! I have ordered the KA but wasn't aware of this. I knew that it took from the hot water, unlike the Miele, but I thought it would heat the water up further until it reached x degrees.

KitchenAid's can be fully integrated, they just require a lot more planning and work and often time more depth to achieve the same look as their Euro counterparts.

If that seamless look is really important to you, you should stick with a Miele, Asko, or even a Bosch unit.

I'd be really surprised if any DW didn't have a water heater. The different cycles require different temperatures and the DW needs to heat the water to that temperature. My KA definitely has a heater - they do recommend running the hot water before starting it up but I don't usually bother - I think it's a trade-off between using extra water or extra electricity.

Thank you. That's what I thought.

I had the KA KUDS50SV model installed six weeks ago.

Hot Water Supply: The manual says to run water in the adjacent sink until hot before operating. One spec. mentions the need for water supply at 120 degrees. I think the bottom element only heats water for the sanitary rinse, which requires a boost to supplied water.

Performance:
This DW has room in either the top or bottom rack for every plastic or glass bowl I use in daily cooking and serving, besides tall glasses and plates. My wine glasses are coming out streak-free, the dishes are dry, the unique back spray elements, "pro-scrub" does remove baked-on food.

Quiet: This one is rated at about 50 dbs. b/c of the disposal the KUDE70 does not have. Mine is installed in a pennisula, on wood floors with a kitchen table and TV on that back side. The pump, spray, even dish movement is very quiet compared to our old "quiet" model. It doesn't interfere with conversations or the TV.

Flush Mount: It was installed flush with my cabinets. The website shows installation dimensions if you are concerned about counter depth.

With top venting, make sure the installer doesn't leave without putting in that metallic tape the company supplies, as mine did. He knew we were replacing our laminate countertops, but I have read of problems if the steam directly hits wood. We just need to re-mount our dishwasher to the side. We have it mounted now to a pine spacer board which should have or could have been removed when the granite came. Or, maybe we will stain the spacer board and attach the foil tape b/c the vent is directed there. I guess the manufacturers think the plain front is more important than the damage steam escaping may cause many traditional kitchens with wood-based counters.

julieofminn confirms my understanding of the need for a hot water source and the primary role of the internal heating element in the KA.

The run between our water heater and the kitchen is not far, so I'm sticking with the status quo in choosing the KA (I still feel guilty when I waste any water waiting for the hot stuff - though we keep a watering can nearby to put most of it to good use).

JulieofMinn - are you talking about the stainless Kitchenaid? My understanding is that with the panel ready Kitchenaid (unlike the European panel ready brands), when you put a panel on it it is not flush with your surrounding cabinets.

As I plan on paneling both my dishwashers, this is a very important aspect to me. I guess you could make it work by making your countertop deeper, but it does not work out of the box I don't think . . . The Kitchenaid is quite a bit deeper than the Miele (which also means the Kitchenaid might hold more!)

I just ordered the top of the line KA, KUDE 70 (something like that; don't have it in front of me). I, too, looked at the Bosch & Miele. My stuff wouldn't fit either. Plus I wanted the hard food disposer & heat dry.

I'll can give you a more informed opinion in a few weeks!

The KUDE70 does have a heater element. I emailed KA to check and received the following response:

"Thank you for contacting KitchenAid with your new product shopping questions! We appreciate your interest in our home appliances.I will be happy to assist you with your questions. Model KUDE70FVPA has to reach a temperature of 120 degrees to start the unit, the temperature will gradually increase with the help of the water heater element. We do ask that you follow the install guide completely."

Kayla, the KUDE70 does not have a hard food disposal. It has a filter. That is one reason it is so quiet.

Athensmomof3, the KA is deeper and you need to be sure your cabinets are deep enough if you want it to be flush with the surrounding cabinets.

Does anyone have experience with how deep the cabinets have to be to make the KUDE70 with panel look integrated?

gwentm - not really, although you could get an estimate by taking the depth of a normal cabinet, subtracting the depth of the Miele and then adding the resulting number to the kitchen aid depth. This would give you the new cabinet depth.

I think we will go with the Miele as it will be so much more expensive to add the depth to the cabinets . . . we have a long stretch of countertop which would need to be added. I have seen it done where the sink and dishwashers are bumped out, so that may be a possibility too.

I wish I could go with the Miele. It would be much easier. But my everyday dishes do not fit at all and I am already replacing all my pots for an induction range! We had decided on custom cabinets so I am checking with my KD and his cabinet maker today to see if this will involve additional cost. Based upon a preliminary call they said the cabinets would have to come out 1/2 - 3/4 " and I would have to give up that space in a 15" cabinet of drawers next to the range. Last resort, I'll have to go with the SS front.

There was another thread recently about KA DW panels sticking out. The KA website has installation diagrams for each model that will show exactly how deep they are.

Here is a link that might be useful: KA DW thread

Really, my KUDE60 does not sit flush and it looks fine! You can see enough of the buttons to use them without having to open the dw. Unless it's different when using a custom panel, it is SO not an issue. The top sticks out maybe 3/4 of an inch. This dw is awesome :)
Monica

Monicakm, Is your KUDE60 a SS or panel ready model?

gwentm, no, it's black. That's why I said "Unless it's different when using a custom panel...". I wanted the KUDE70 but it only came in SS or panel ready and I needed black. As far as I know the the only difference between the two are the dB. The 60 model is rated at 46 and the 70 model is rated at 41.
Monica

Warmfridge, Very helpful link. I have emailed my KD to see whether he can recess the dishwasher as suggested in that thread to resolve the problem.

If not, look at a Bosch. Integrates beautifully, washes well, runs quietly, prices similar to KA. I looked at Miele and didn't like the racking for our dishes. With what I saved -- we would up getting 2 Thermador/Bosch.

I looked at the Bosch as well and my dishes didn't fit in any of their dishwashers either, though one of their models was much better than the Miele. We have Dansk ironstone - oldies but goodies - and they are not thin enough for the European machines. I'm hoping to make the KA work.

I've read so many times now that people didn't like the way their dishes fit (or didn't fit, I should say) into the European DW's. Just wondering, what exactly doesn't fit? I too am hoping to get a KA (am also looking into that issue of recessing the wall) but am also open to Miele. What exactly wouldn't fit and why? Cookie sheets? Is it about small cereal bowls vs. large (large won't fit in the Miele or something like that)?

I noticed in the store that the SS-front Miele's (possibly also KA but can't remember) were easier to open than the paneled ones. I hurt my back recently and it was a jolt to my back to open the paneled ones cause there was no release mechanism/latch as there are on the non-paneled models. Has anyone else noticed this? I'm also wondering if it loosens up over time and becomes a bit easier...

Thanks!

Hi Theresse,

Don't worry, it's the same for both paneled / stainless steel door, let's see why

Whatever european brand of dishwasher doesn't have any push button or knob to release the latch, because of safety codes.
Suppose a kid enters the DW. He/she has just to push the door from the inside to open it

Freestanding (european portables with countertop but ... without wheels) and slide-in dishwashers (same without countertop - e.g. stainless steel door models) have a ready-to-use door, so door springs are already calibrated. That's why they feel easier to open than paneled models.

I guess you opened some integrated (paneled) models without the custom panel : door is harder to pull cause its springs are regulated a bit harder to bear the custom panel weight. Once the panel is on its place they will be lighter. Now springs can be set properly "tuned"

Again, no matter of the brand, prefinished or paneled, every DW has a couple of screws behind the toekick to set springs on the proper "fine tuning". So even in the future you'll be able to have the door calibrate

If you go to Miele, check differences in rack configuration Excella/LaPerla vs Optima/Diamante
Be aware that even the basic/middle line models have the same build quality and all the useful features and aren't noisy at all. Excella/LaPerla have IMHO too many cycles. You would pay 1000 dollars more than a Diamante just to have some bell & whistles. Go figure that here the entry level model cost 1/3 of a La Perla and has all the most useful features.

Theresse, In the Miele, the tines to hold in the dishes are very close together.

AthensMomof3
My KA Dishwasher is stainless and it actually does protrude just under 1/2" from my counter, which is in a pennisula. This is about the same amount my adjacent drawer front protrudes and my cabinet doors protrude so it's not like I have a flat kitchen.

One thing we didn't realize with stainless is how much it would reflect the other colors in the room. The refrigerator and DW are SS and each acts as a mirror reflecting the color tones in our floors and cabinets. However, if you select a custom front, the overall appearance from a distance will be very consistent and subtle variations in depth will not be a distraction unless you are planning a kitchen with flat panel cabinetry.

When I was looking at ranges I asked a sales person which dishwasher allows for the shallowest cabinets and he immediately responded Miele, as others in the post have mentioned.

Actually there is a KA that doesn't protrude (per specifications is 553 mm deep - as a Miele or a Bosch)
But it's made by Whirlpool Europe just for european markets

Trying out your dishes in the machines is really the best way to go. We have unusually-shaped cereal bowls (Fiestaware... flat on bottom and shallow) and we found they did not fit well in the KA due to the distance between the tines. They fit very well in the Miele, so that's what we went with. I'm sure many machine clean well, but what good does that do if you have to run the thing twice as often since you can only fit half as much in?

My KD poked some holes in the wall where the new dishwasher will be and it looks as though it will not be a big problem to recess it to make it fully integrated. Yeah!