I've had no trouble with my Thermador 6 burner stove. It's 13 years old. We are now into the 2nd week of a major remodel of the kitchen knocking out the old mudroom laundry room to make a bigger kitchen. I will keep the Thermador. I am looking at an ASKO Dishwasher. I had nixed the Miele because I want to throw silverware into the DW. But if Gary is right, then I could reconsider the Miele. It looked like the ASKO has the silverware tray on top too but without the annoying slotted utensil tray. (The difference seems to be the difference between Rome's airport and Frankfort). I want an all refrigerator column so I am looking at the Thermador. I have a full freezer in our shed 10 feet away from the kitchen . (We are cattle ranchers). So all I need inside is an ice cube maker for my smoothies. But maybe a small freezer drawer for frozen fruit for said smoothies, a couple frozen pizzas, and of course the Ketel One Vodka. (No more kids at home). Could put the 18" Thermador freezer someplace though. Other columns are Lebherr, Viking. So advice on columns? And what about beverage centers? I looked at Marvel and Viking. Yikes. My biggest problem is a separate convection/microwave. Every 10 years, it seems, we are warned of the dangers of microwaves and cancer. Is a combo convection microwave good for making that extra dish for Thanksgiving and parties? Politically I'm trying to buy as much American and local as I can (local guy making our stainless steel sink), but the next best thing are European manufacturers who have union workers who make decent salaries, not slave labor. I have to decide by tomorrow and I'm still a tad confused.

Posted by gabethan I'm trying to decide range vs cooktop and wall oven Questions... 1. Is it true that it is better to have a range because heat will flow out better from the oven vs. having a wall oven built into your cabinets?? Many of the wall ovens vent to the front so I don't think a wall oven is a problem. There does seem to be some variance in how much heat is released and may be due to how well they are insulated. I have had two brands in my wall space in the last several years. The Electrolux that I have now does not put as much heat into the kitchen. With a range, a gas oven vents much more heat than the electric ovens do. 2. I have read about the porcelain chipping in the wall ovens. Is that true for 2013? If you search on this forum you will find that this is an ongoing problem. It is hard to tell how wide spead these issues are. In my area(small market), Wolf has replaced other liners to ranges but you don't read about it that much online with the ranges. The wall ovens in the future from Wolf will have a replaceable bottom and you would want to make sure you get that if you choose a Wolf oven. The range will not have that. I have the Wolf DF range and the porcelain has failed a little after four years. They cannot give a fixed estimate for a repair and just the labor starts at $800. They will only warranty the new liner for one year. It would seem that since this has been an issue, they would do better than that. I don't think the blue chips are fixed but they are making it easier to repair. It is a shame because there is no other range with an oven like that. I'm thinking 36" Dual Range OR 36" Cooktop Double Wall Range Those packages come out to roughly the same price. Trying to make the numbers work!! I would go for the components. You can pick exactly what you like and if one goes, it can be replaced. I have a very expensive storage cabinet at present. It is not safe to have food cooking with glass shards flying around. Appreciate any advice. I've looked at every brand and keep coming back to Subzero and Wolf . If you want Wolf range, I would go for the all gas because the enamel is not blue. I would buy the longest extended warranty you can get if you buy something with a lot of electronics or any type of blue porcelain. I have had blue enamel failure with Dacor, Electrolux and Wolf, all in different ways. Dacor was bought back for multiple issues, Electrolux was fixed under extended warranty and Wolf I am out. The dealer told me Wolf would stand behind their product and I would not need an extended warranty. This was true because they have replaced double ovens 4 years old with new ones for $500 for someone on this forum. They don't do that anymore. I was a big fan of Wolf until this happened. One reason I bought that range was the supposed "peace of mind"---HA!

I will be going with half Wolf/Subzero and half Miele, even though I might not maximize the promotions they are both offering. The 48" Miele dual fuel range just didn't seem quite right for me. The oven sizes weren't quite right. A little too digital for something I use everyday! I did like that I could order with 8 burners, since I rarely use the grill/griddle, but even that wasn't enough to sway me. I will be going with the Wolf 48" dual fuel and hoping that the blue flaking oven issue won't be a problem with the unit I order. Wolf: 48" DF range, Subzero column 36" fridge and 24" freezer, 24" drawer MW Miele: 24" coffee machine, 24" CS Oven XXL, dishwasher.

Ccwatters, I’m glad you are not offended. I thought when you said “picking my comments apart and arguing each ” and characterized others posts as “speculative” that you were. Even your last comment about “criticism” has that connotation. Good to know you aren’t. Yes, you did thank both of us and others, but when I said “ask follow up questions” I meant asking specific questions of the people who posted, especially the new owner. I do understand asking for newer reviews. Sometimes people comment about a brand they have had for 15 years when there have been several model changes so the comment is no longer valid. The Wolf M is in the sweet spot of a fair amount of threads and no real changes. Wolf is in kind of a conundrum. They can’t really admit to the chipping problem, yet they made the bottom replaceable. If you have read all the threads about the chipping and uneven browning and were assured, then you made the best decision for you. If you don’t have that browning on the sides, that is wonderful. I always take people at their word as to what they say happens in their own kitchen and this is also why the posts about uneven browning concern me. I just post to bring awareness to the issues reported here that you will not hear about by anyone marketing a product, and people can make their own decision. I’m aware of how the message system works but I believe comments need to be public as they may benefit someone down the line reading this as a later point.