Sounds like a very interesting installation--could have great implications for doing semi-permanent mosaic installations (e.g. so you could sell more than one backsplash to the same house :))...I look forward to learning more about what it is you all have figured out :)

Funny you should say that. I just talked to a guy this afternoon that I've recommended in here a few times that does photo overlaying on tile, as well as murals. My father in Law turns 80 next november, and what we're going to do is take a pic from a few years ago of Kathleen and her sister and brothers, and have it made up into a 24x30 tile mural with 6x6 wall tile, and then I'm going to do exactly the same thing as I'm doing with the Moravia tile project-- trimming it out with stone chair rail and all, and that's going to be part of his birthday present.

I'm even giving some thought to putting together several more for one of the craft fairs during the summer. I'm a little nervous about it, though, because between the mural fabrication and the materials, each piece would cost me about 300.00, and I don't know if people would be willing to spend that kind of money at a craft fair. I mean, I've got some really beautiful "Maine" pictures, but it would be a pretty good outlay of money with no guarantees.

That's a great idea, Bill! Your FIL will completely love that...

Re doing the craft fairs: I wonder if you could do something like go in on it *with* the person who makes the tiles, so that you don't have to pay him full price for his work until it sells, and then you can split the profits? I'm thinking also in addition craft fairs, maybe the home improvement show type things where all sorts of tradespeople have booths--do they have those out there? You could do really well there, I would think--people are already coming prepared to be thinking about spending thousands of dollars on a remodel...

Also re both of those kinds of shows: people may not buy the ones you make (make some smaller, less expensive ones rather than the top-of-the-line?) but you could say you can do commissions as well? These are some ideas I hear from mosaicists who are working their way up the market hierarchy.

That's a thought, but I'd still have to have atleast a couple of show pieces. I know for myself, when Kathleen and I've gone to these craft shows, we'll talk to the artists, and more times than I can remember I'll ask for a business card with plans to get in touch with them at a later date to have them do something for me, and then it never happens, and I doubt I'm that much out of the ordinary in that respect. I don't know. I may give it a shot. The biggest thing that gives me pause actually isn't getting the murals done. It's the cost of the chair rail pieces! The CHEAPEST ones I work with are about 20.00 EACH for 12" lengths, and just for example, on the Moravia project, I'm using 18 pieces.

That is some serious money upfront...even if you make the samples 1x2, that's still $100...is all chair rail tile that expensive? (I haven't used any, but wow--puts some of these bathrooms on g'web in new perspective :))

And yes, you're right, of course, about the proportions of leads that are followed up on. Just another avenue of possibility--I've heard folks actually having significant follow-through on it, which surprised me, I guess, thus it stuck out in my mind.

is all chair rail tile that expensive

Fly-- that's the CHEAPEST stone chair rail I've used. I've used stone chiar rail before that was as much as 75.00 a piece.

I'll figure it out-- maybe do one or two and give them to a friend to sell on consignment and see what happens. If they sell, I'll see about getting into it.

Here are pics from what's been done so far today. Unfortunately, the owner is in Arizona until tonight, and I want his input on how he wants the Moravia tiles arranged, so as of right now, the chair rail edge is installed, and all the other tiles are cut and placed dry on the piece, and then when he and I can get together to lay the Moravia pieces out, then I'll cut them in and set the field pieces:

Bill, thanks so much for taking the WIP pics! Those chair rails are beautiful--a walnut travertine? And I note that you put the thinset down on the surface *and* back-buttered the pieces. I'm guessing that the panel then gets recessed so that the chair rail pieces protrude from the face of the wall but the wood edging around the backerboard is inset to be flush with the wall? And how will it be secured into the wall?

All is set, awaiting the stars of the show :) It's thrilling just to see the process.

What is the black waterproofing material? I know redguard but that's it.

Actually the piece will hang on the face of the wall. I also thought it would get recessed, but here's a diagram of how it'll work:

The top drawing is how it would look, looking directly at the backside of the piece. There will be two 1x4's across the back. On the bottom of each 1x4 will be a mitered edge that will catch corresponding 1x4's on the wall, also with mitered edges, as shown in the second drawing, and that's how it'll hang. Keep in mind-- this piece is about 165 pounds, so it's going to need to be solidly braced. The contractor's talking about also adding a small lip or shelf for the bottom of the piece to rest on, but we'll see. I'm just going to put it together. They're going to mount it on the wall. :-)

Forgot this one:

What is the black waterproofing material? I know redguard but that's it.

It's Laticrete's 9235, and it's being used to bridge the wood trim and the cement board. Thinset won't stick to dimensional lumber, but it will to 9235, and the 9235 will also help as an isolation membrane from the movement of the dimensional wood. The biggest difference between this and Redgard is that if you notice in the first pic after it's been applied, you'll see there's a fabric imbedded in it. You don't have that reinforcement with Redgard.

All is set, awaiting the stars of the show :) It's thrilling just to see the process.

There's going to be a piece written on this for industry magazines, as well, so trust me-- you're not the only one waiting!! :-)

A little off the subject, but is that SNOW in those photographs, Bill? Do you know how hard it is for a Texan to see snow?? :) In March?

That was snow piled about 6 feet high. It was warm, yesterday, though-- up in the low 40's!! :-) Today's a different story. I woke up and it's snowing. :-(

Hi Bill,
As someone with lots of sales experience I can give you a hint... you have to give them a reason to call you "asap", otherwise they will put it off indefinately (read never). So give them a "Show Special" good for fifteen days or something -i.e. 10% off,whatever...
Lynn

Sorry, but that train's left the station. Even if they WERE to call me now, I couldn't do it. First, it's about 4 hours from home. It would've been nice, because it's up in Downeast Maine where my kids live, but I just took on a project that should keep me busy until the end of may to mid june. I've been asked to work with several other crews on a hotel on the water up here where all the bathrooms will be jerusalem stone-- shower, tub deck, splash, and floor, including a design mat in the floor. In addition, there's about 3500 feet of travertine in the lobby, complete with waterjet designs, and about another thousand feet of quarry tile in the kitchen. Not to include the mosaics in the health club steam rooms.

It would've been a nice job to get-- an eye catcher for the portfolio. But I've got plenty of work to do.

Thinset won't stick to dimensional lumber

Huh? Why do we put thinset between a subfloor and the underlayment if it won't stick to the wood? Or does OSB or plywood not count as "dimensional lumber?"

I believe you put thinset down to fill any voids to reduce movement (and tile/grout cracking), not to "stick" the cement board to the plywood. That's why you still have to use properly spaced screws to fasten your underlayment to the plywood.

Dimensional lumber does in general refer to solid sticks of wood like 1x's and 2x's and 4x's etc, not plywood.

Plywood and OSB are what's called "engineered" wood products. As Lisa said, dimensional lumber is anything sawn directly from the tree. She's also correct about the use of thinset between cement board and subfloor.

Good thread Bill. I always enjoy these non-traditional tile project threads.

Just make sure they don't use drywall screws when screwing the french cleats into the studs. :)

I'm not sure how that frame will be finished, so I'll throw this out: When I've hung things like that, I'll also have the side trim on the frame extend back, so when the frame is hung on the french cleats the side frame comes within about 1/8" of the wall. It hides the cleats so when viewed from the side you can't see how it's hung. It gives a more finished look.

I don't like the frame to actually touch the wall when setting heavy things like this on french cleats, because then when it's hung the installer(s) might lift it, set it against the wall, and as it's slid down onto the cleats the frame can mar the wall finish.

Small point, but I thought I'd toss that out.

Mongo

Mongo-- This wouldn't "scun" up the wall-- it's going to be v-notched T&G pine, but it doesn't matter, anyway. I'm back to square one. I got to the house this morning, and the owner LOVED the piece I'd put together so far (the one pictured above). This morning, however, about 4 am, his wife woke him out of a sound sleep, and decided it would be a much better ides to use what I'd made as a table top for down by their dock, and do the top of a bench in their room by a bay window with the Bottocino and Moravian tiles, instead! So, my work yesterday wasn't wasted, but it's not going to be what I thought it was. Such is the way of doing custom work!! :-)

The way of doing custom work indeed...they're going to use the Moravian tiles to be a *seating surface*? Do I understand that right? That's an interesting choice, if I am reading it correctly. I would gravitate toward being able to look at them straight on...maybe I'm not understanding it.

It would have been so cool to see the process of the hanging of the piece. Mongo, your idea about extending the sides of the frame is really helpful, since it would have ended up going onto the face of the wall rather than being recessed.

Must be nice to know, though, that your work on the *background* of the star-tiles was so nice they decided to use it on its own :)

And thanks for the info on the Laticrete 9235--fascinating product and I can already think of uses for it...

And the hotel project: had to laugh...here we all are sweating one bathroom, tile by tile...folks who do hotels have *hundreds* of bathrooms to do--the mind reels...how many bathrooms would you say you've done over your career?

I couldn't even count. Keep in mind-- the first 10 years in the business I was a commecrial union tile setter, and we did several hotels, apartment buildings, condo complexes, etc.. I'd venture to say it's somewhere over 1000. Custom bathrooms, that's a different story. Probably somewhere between 2-300.

Well, the stars of the show have finally made their appearance. Here's what's going to be their "final resting place":

Also, I made a mistake on the count-- it's not 15 pieces. It's 22. Keep in mind while looking at these pieces that every single one of them are completely hand made:

Also, they were made about 100 years ago.

Bill, it looks great except for the tile over there. You absolutely need to swap it with this one here.

Make that one change and it'll be perfect!

Your bestest helper,
Mongo

Nice Tiles...very nice tiles...wicked pissah tiles...

I know it's not up to you, but it just bothers me that they are being set in a window seat.

There. I said it. Now I feel better.

Mongo

mongo, that's what I was kind of talking around...I was trying to be diplomatic, ya big lug.

Those tiles give me shivers, they're so amazing and full of history.

But *sitting* on them?! Seems really a wrong choice. Why did the owner say she wanted to sit on them?

oh, and WOW re the career project tally! I had a guess it was over 1,000. Amazing.

I will say that they get a lot of nice natural light on them there...

That's the whol reason they wanted them placed there. (the light) And I've been assured no one's going to sit there. It WILL be a show piece.

The natural light is definitely a player.

But those tiles? I'd want to be looking at them from inches away to really explore the details. I'd much prefer them at eye level.

But that's me. That's why I drive the docents and security guards nuts when I go to museums. Sometimes I get my nose right up to a painting to get into the subtleties of the brush strokes.

I like it though, bill. Looking forward to the progress pics.

Mongo

I hear ya, mongo. I usually put my hands behind my back if I want to do that--just to let folks know I'm not going to put my grimy fingers onto, say, a fabulous Old Master rice picture :) But I do feel better knowing that the tiles won't be sat on.

Hmmm, I wonder if there's a way to mount them onto a *removable* seat top, Bill, or a few of them, so that if by any chance they change their minds they could mount them in interesting combinations onto a wall somewhere? Kind of like hard mosaic seat cushions--modular units that fit together? There would be some trim in between the pieces, which could either be masked or highlighted, depending on what they want...can you envision what I'm saying or is it still only inside my head?

No, I get it. Matter of fact, you're a little late. When the homeowner first told me what he wanted to do, I suggested that very thing-- a couple of layers of 3/4" plywood screwed together, and I'd tile it, and then it could still be removeable. He wanted it mounted, though, so, now it's too late. the pieces have been cut in, they're installed, and sunday, I'll be going back over to grout them, and because the length of grout joints between pieces are so small and I don't want to take a chance on caking grout on the Moravian tiles, I'll most likely end up using a grout bag to grout it. Here it is, all set:

Mongo-- even if we'd done what we were originally going to do, the tiles still wouldn't have been at eye level. In the pic below, they would've been on the other side of the wall, just above the door:

*sigh* they're so beautiful. Guess you can't say you haven't offered them lots of options...

Hey, I can help with the masking: in addition to the grout bag, you know what you can use? Find *acid-free* blu-tak (or similar) -- the putty-like adhesive that can be used to put things like posters up on walls--and use it like blue tape over the edges of the tile faces. It comes off fine, doesn't stain, and protects from grout getting into hard-to-clean nooks and crannies. This is a tip from professional mosaicists, btw, not just me.

What fun that will be. The sun is really beautiful on them. I actually like the criss-cross grid of the groutlines around them.

Me too-- it makes for a nice contrast-- the straight square lines of the pieces against the diagonal lines of the field. That was MY contribution to the design! :-)

Above the door? Ugh.

The juxtaposition of the diagonal field tiled with Mistah Mercer's focal tiles? It makes the installation.

You got skills, sunshine!

Bill, I say this with all sincerity...you're an exceptional tile man. That's a reflection not just on this installation, but on all the work you've shown here on this forum. So many people never grasp the difference between a laborer and a professional. You sir, are the consummate professional.

While I'm still sort of cringing at the window seat...after the idea of them being installed above a doorway? Let's say I'm down to a "flinch" instead of a "cringe".

Be well, Mongo

Damn. I've never been good at accepting praise. I think I'll just say thank you. :-)

Well, at least in the window seat, people will be able to get up close and appreciate the detail of the tiles AND the workmanship, which they wouldn't hve been able to do over the door . . .

Will they install a "drool guard" -- kinda like a sneeze guard at a buffet? They may need it!

Wow . . . it came out just stunning.

I'm mostly a lurker on this forum now that my bathrooms are finished, but may I embarrass Bill a little more and add that in addition to being a professional, you are one of the most helpful, kind and generous souls I've encountered on any online board.

Bill consistently provides helpful advice, answers questions, does virtual (but no less valuable!) quality control and always stands up for the consumer. Professional indeed but also a genuinely decent person of the highest integrity.

I only wish I could have the chance to shake your hand someday Bill and tell you thanks in person for all you do.

Ann

I came to this thread looking for the appropriate place to post what Ann beat me to. The guy doing my tile made a crack yesterday when I failed (for the first time all week) to question him to verify a step in his process. I confessed I had been looking up everything he was doing, in what order, down to the products he was using on an internet board, and he had so far passed every test, so I trusted him. He shook his head and said I could really go wrong doing that. I defended myself by saying I knew what the John Bridge forum was (sorry, didn't think this place would register with him) and that if a guy online named Bill Vincent did it, I felt pretty good about it. His eyes got all big and he said, "I know that guy! He posts online and he is THE MAN!" I can't remember the name of the forum he mentioned, it wasn't JB or this one. We don't know how you do it and have time to practice your craft, but I and LOTS more people (your fellow professionals included) are so grateful that you do take the time to add your voice here and elsewhere.

Mongo, Bill, everyone here that takes time to post their experience- I just can't thank you enough.

Thank you very much.

Hopefully the owners will be up in a few hours, and I can go over and finish the project this morning. Soon as I do, I'll post the finished pics.

Well, so much for that. They were out all day, so hopefully, I'll be able to get over and finally finish this off tomorrow night after work.

runninginplace...you said it so eloquent!
it's not often (hardly ever anymore) that people take pride and ownership in their work and the pro's here are the best.
A BIG thank you!! You all are special.
Diane

Okay-- here are the finished pics:

And this is the finished table top:

**Standing ovation** :)

Just wonderful. Thank you for sharing the pictures with us.

BEAUTIFUL!

I took a ceramics class at the community college and we made a pilgrimage to the Moravian Tile Factory in Lancaster, Pa.

amazing!

Bill V you are truly amazing. Thanks for sharing your expertise with us.

Thank you all very much. I just set them. The tiles themselves, in this case, are the stars!! I even told the homeowner I was sorry it was done, because I LOVE looking at them. They've got to be some of the most incredible tiles I've ever seen. There's no way you could get that kind of detail without machine stamping today. Mercer did incredible work-- for OUR day, much less HIS!!

Wow, beautiful!
I would love to get my hands on some of those.
I know, nearly impossible..
:(

Bill Vincent, absolutely wonderful. I've just had a chance to catch up with this project and I've loved reading through and seeing this.

Mongo and Flyleft you have brought back so many memories regarding your 3/23 posts. More than 30 years ago in a museum in Vienna I suddenly heard a voice obviously giving a command in German but I had no idea what it was saying. I next heard an Italian version---still clueless and then French, Spanish and something I didn't recognize. As I was starting to think the building needed to be evacuated and I would be the last one out the voice finally switched to English. It said: keep your hand behind your back and step away from the painting. Your nose is too close. By this time everyone in the room was laughing but at least I got to see the Bruegel nose to nose.