Some powders supposedly can be abrasive, but I'd suspect the same of gels. Do you prerinse? If so, don't. If by "logo" mugs you mean with a painted-on design, I'd expect fading as a matter of normal course.

In regards to "reusing" water, the prewash or prerinse water may be kept (or partially drained) and used for the main wash if detected soil level is low, but wash water is never reused for the final rinsing.

I find it ridiculous to suggest that powdered DW detergent is acting as an abrasive. Plus, if that were the case it would have happened with your old DW.

Depending on which model you have, one plausible explanation would be if you are using the water softening feature found in some Mieles. If you have hard water, then an equal amount of detergent in unsoftened water would be significantly less effective than if used in softened water. Thus you could be using too much detergent for the now softened water.

My reaction I think would be to wonder how poorly your old DW cleaned, more than to accuse the new one of somehow bleaching out your mugs.

We've had our Miele for over 3 years and have had the same thing happen with our custom photo mugs. I don't think it's specific to Mieles since the same thing is happening to my sister's photo mugs with her Bosch of 2 years. Neither of us has a water softener nor use salt, and we both use Electrasol 3 in 1 tabs...half tab for me and full tab for her (I can't convince her she's wasting money!)

I suspect it's those little enzyme buggers not having enough "food". We scrape but there is very little food left on the dishes when they go into the Miele. There are only 2 of us, so we run the dishwasher only once every 4-5 days. We do not use the rinse and hold cycle, just let everything sit and get crusty. My sister rinses her dishes before putting in the Bosch.

Actually, the more I think about it...our older custom photo mugs (2001) seem to not fade as much or as fast as the newer ones. And the one black photo mug we have hasn't faded at all. Maybe the printing process has changed and doesn't hold up as well to enzymes?

I forgot to mention both ours and my sister's photo mugs have all come from the same place...Sony's Imagestation, which is now defunct.

Just another note on photo mugs - all of our photo mugs, as well as our mugs with various colored patterns or logos on them, got bleached/faded in our Bosch dishwasher over the 4 years we owned it so I don't think it's an issue specific to the Miele.

I wonder whether decorations lasted longer when lead was still in use.

It's not specific to Miele dishwashers. We've had an Electrolux dishwasher and now have Bosch and it happened with both machines.

I think it's a combination of today's extended wash cycles and powerful detergents. Just the other night, I unloaded our Bosch and was once again amazed at how well the black-encrusted lasagna dish came clean. However, I also noticed that the print on one cup had come off quite a bit. It not only happens to our cups, but also plates and glasses.

Basically, whenever you have an item with print on it, which does not have a final layer of glazing on it, chances are the print will eventually be washed off. Glasses are especially affected by this because, unless the glass itself is colored, there's nothing to protect the print.

You'll either have to hand-wash these very delicate items or run them separately through a more gentle cycle like China & Crystal or Short.

Alex

Some dishwashing detergents do cause more etching than others. There was an article in Consumer Reports regarding this not too long ago. Also higher temps and just naturally soft water, can and does lead to etching. If you have Trader Joe's near you, try their powdered detergent. Ranked highly. Also, if you can, drop the temp a bit. Most European DW heat their own water, so there s/b a cycle that will run on lower temps. I never had etching with my old Asko in my last house on city water (which was fairly soft-naturally), now I am on a well (with artificially softened water - when it works) with an older KitchenAid DW, have used High Temp Wash a few times and nearly all my glassware is now etched. Lower temps and a different detergent should help you with your problems. Of course, etching is permanent, so you will need new glassware. And if you have a softener, use less salt and less detergent.

If I didn't know better clinresga; I'd say it seems almost as if you're taking gibby's dishwasher cleaning question personally. I didn't take her inquiry about Mieles as an accusation about it's effectiveness or worth. I dunno... maybe I'm reading it wrong and really usually let these things pass. Maybe it's cause I had a particularly rotten day... in that case; sorry for speaking up. I read Miele/Bosch/KA DW threads cause I'll soon be in the market for one. I thought it seems unduly harsh to call a thought ridiculous and your closing statement felt sarcastic.

'abrasive' might be the wrong word. 'Caustic' definitely fits. DW detergents also contain bleach agents.

One has to think about how the formulations have changed in the past 4-5 years, as well as how the new HE DWs use less water, thus concentrating the detergent.

It would not surprise me that print would fade in hot water and bleach. Note that it took 4 years (?) to do it.

Is it possible that my Miele dishwasher is so "smart" that the time shown when starting the sensor wash cycle changes based on previous washes?

Why must etched glassware be thrown out / replaced? Is using it somehow dangerous and a health hazard? Or, is the objection simply one of aesthetics, that it doesn't look nice?

Gibby,
Sorry you are having such a time with etching/fading. I have the Excella and use 1 tsp of detergent(in the main dispenser) for normally soiled dishes which gets everything sparkling. If I have a really dirty load I use 1.5 tsp. I use Sam's brand powder or Wal-Mart brand but only the amounts described above. We have had our dishwasher now for 2 years and no etching. It is connected to cold water and has the softener with salt in it. Our water is moderately hard. Have you tried this small amount of detergent?

No health hazard with etching, just makes glassware unattractive.

dadoes - I toss entirely for esthetic reasons. It's unsightly in lighted glass cabinets and I don't like serving guests out of etched glassware. I keep a few of them for my own use in a different cabinet. When they get really bad I don't even like drinking out of them. I've accepted the etching though - it's the coffee mug thing that bothers me now. I don't care about most every day mugs (though some were souvenirs I kind of wanted to keep). What I'm more concerned about is whether the same thing will happen to my dinnerware.

gibby3000, we've had no fading or etching with any of our dinnerware or "real" mugs in the Miele whether using a full or half tab of Electrasol. The fading problem seems to be only with the photo mugs. Before we switched to a half tab, we were getting some etching on some glasses. But that seemed to stop once we cut the detergent in half. Try cutting down on the amount of detergent and keep a close eye on your dinnerware until you're convinced it won't etch or fade. We've adopted the attitude if we can't toss it into the Miele, we won't use it. The photo mugs still fade even when we use a half tab, but we can always have new ones made.