ml25,

I think a call into Miele technical support is in order.

Have you tried calling Miele directly?

Has the cleaning performance altered in anyway?

Based on my experience with Miele's suggestions to solve the problems I've had (not the same as yours) I wouldn't trust their opinion on what will fix the problem if they aren't sounding 100% confident they know what is causing the problem - especially if there's a significant cost involved.

Hi again,

Mando p - yes it was a Miele technical support person that came and saw our dishwasher. The cleaning performance is still great.

Follow up - No, the vinegar didn't fix the problem. I talked to our retail store and they have heard of this before but wasn't sure how Miele has fixed the problem in the past. I am supposed to call Miele back and ask for a senior technician to come out. The retail store feels that over time the machine could have shifted enough to start sounding louder.

FYI - I used a noise meter to get a sound reading (I know it isn't always accurate but it would give me a sense of the loudness). I took the readings when no other appliances were running (especially our fridge). Even when it is just "sloshing" during the wash it would read between 63-67 db and when the motor is on it goes as high as 69-70.

We live in a small bungalow so this is an important feature for us (and one of the reasons I could justify the original cost).

How close was the meter to the DW when you took the reading?

This doesn't make any sense, the only thing that would cause the unit to sound louder, including all the sloshing noises, is a break down in the sound insulation or a shifting of the dishwasher in a significant and noticeable way.

If the increased noise an be attributed directly to the motor, then that could be your culprit, but the increased loudness of the regular sloshing sounds would indicate a sound insulation issue or a significant increase in the water pressure -- that latter also points to a pump issue.

Whatever the repair, I would escalate and ask Miele to pay for it. Apple just paid for a $1,275 repair to my Power Mac, more than two years out of warranty, simply because I sent an email to Steve Jobs and asked for it.

ML25

Will you describe the sound you hear?

I will try and answer the questions/comments as best as I can.

sshrivastava - I'm glad to hear your suggestion that it might be related to insulation, this was my "instinct" because of the general overall loudness. Never thought about water pressure though - how would that make the wash cycle louder (sorry if that is a silly question) - Is it related to volume?

antss - we took the level reading close up, few feet away and about 8 feet away. Although it did decrease a little when we got further away it wasn't a significant lower reading.

jerrod6 - it isn't really a particular sound, just the machine is noisier. We live in a bungalow and although the kitchen has a wall between the dining room and kitchen we can now hear it in the dining room and living room. This only started happening a few months ago (we have had the machine for over 3 years so I know what it should sound like).

Miele support update - I talked to Miele again today and they are sending out a senior technician next week to look at the machine again.

About 8 months ago we had our counter top, sink and taps replaced. Because everything was okay for over 6 months before the sound increase I didn't think it was related. Is it possible that having that work done would have "unsettled" the DW and make it significantly noisier (and I do mean significantly)?

Thanks for the help.

those machines don't really have any insulation that can shift or fall off. With the exception of a few models that had pads on top the sound abatment was part of the chasis/design. I wouldn't think the top pad would add much abatment to equation anyway.

I always find it curious that things start to enter the equation the more & more problems are discused. Having the work done certainly brings new posibilities into play. They may not be realted but......Certainly going from lamanite tops to stone or stainless would make a difference in sound. The wood substrate in the lam would have more damping than the more reflecive stone. Is this the cause of the xtra noise??? Hard to say but it's a possibliity.

I probably misinformed you about the countertop (sorry). We actually didn't remove the original top, we had a engineered granite overlay put on top (changes the look). It puts a thin granite overlay ontop of the original (therefore the old counter wasn't removed). The main change was replacing the sink and taps. Which is why I didn't think it would make a difference.

Thanks,

Did you try putting a stopper in the sink while running the DW? You might be hearing the draining noise - the change in sink might have made a difference.

ml25

I was asking for a sound description because dishwashers, at least mine, typically make different sounds from different parts depending on what they are doing. they don't make the same sound when the water is running out, not the same sound when they are in the middle of a wash, or when the water is running in.

Is your unit secured to the top of the counter? Maybe this has worked loose and is allowing sound to escape?

Is your DW between two base cabinets?

If your pump is sending too much pressure to the spray arms, you may hear a louder sloshing sound as the water is hitting the dishwasher walls with a much harder force. Of course, you'll also see evidence of this with dishes being knocked around and such.

This is a mystery!

I agree it is a mystery.

1 - yes we have tried the stopper in the sink. did make a difference for the draining but nothing else.

2 - Miele did the install so I'm not sure if it was secured or not. That is an interesting idea though. The DW is between 2 cabinets (with the one on the right holding the sink, so there is not much in that cabinet).

3 - I haven't seen any evidence of dished being knocked around.

Thanks for any idea.

Hi,

Thought I would post an update (although this topic seems to have died down).

Another Miele technician came yesterday and checked all the connections etc. but everything looked okay and he doesn't know why the change in sound. He did agree (verbally) that it did sound noisier than normal but according to the report he wrote the loudness is considered "good" and his DB meter registered around 50-54 depending on what it was doing.

Unfortunately it looks like we will have to live with it. Sadly it means I will no longer be part of the "put the hand on the dishwasher to see if it is running" crowd. And since we live in a bungalow I won't feel comfortable running the dishwasher when we have company anymore.

I still love the way it cleans but I am disappointed that the 3 years we enjoyed of having a very quiet dishwasher (bragging to friends, saying it was worth the money (which I'm not sure is true any more)) is no longer. My friend who also has a Miele agreed that it "doesn't sound like a Miele" but just another dishwasher (feels like I have been enjoying a lovely treat only to have it taken away).

It is a sad day for me. Thanks for all of the help.

I probably misinformed you about the countertop (sorry). We actually didn't remove the original top, we had a engineered granite overlay put on top (changes the look). It puts a thin granite overlay ontop of the original (therefore the old counter wasn't removed). The main change was replacing the sink and taps. Which is why I didn't think it would make a difference.

When you had your sink replaced did the contractor pull the dishwasher out? Is you sink stainless steel? How is the connection hose routed to the dishwasher is it touching the sink or other parts? Did the Miele Service Representative pull the dishwasher out from the cabinet and look at matters. Did the contractor modify or change the connection to the Waterproof System Box (see page 4 of this document Miele Novotronic G851 Product Dimensions)?

Look, don't take this the wrong way. I'm not trying to attack or bait you but,

Is it possible that you've changed?

If the Miele tech registered 50-55 dB's in YOUR real world conditions, then you have a DW that is more quiet than 94% of the American population.

I think your friends statement: " agreed that it "doesn't sound like a Miele" but just another dishwasher " is an absolute load of crap. Personally, I think this is the only thing that has changed.

First you read on the web from knowledgeable (but un verifiable) sources that the Miele is silent, "I can't even hear mine run" bla, bla bla. Next, your "friend" (and sounds like) sounding board, and approval czar, told you much the same thing, so you know have a benchmark to guage your Miele by. Nevermind your benchmark is incorrect, too high , whateve. It's now what you are going to judge all future talk @ this DW on. You get it, it's nice but you can hear it run. YOu now are thinking (in the back of you head) that the net bozos and friend are a little wrong but hey, I'm in the club so don't rock the boat. You casually mention it to the approval czar, who now is not in as exclusive a cache since you've got one too, and (s)he agrees with you . Now, your bubble is burst, your previously absolutely SILENT DW is now a raging monster. BULL, 50 db's is about the level of a conversation. The only thing that's changed is your perception of DW sound reality which was not based on hard fact, evidence and real world experience in the first place - only what your mind painted the picture out to be.

I've been using Miele & Bosch DW's since I lived in Germany 30 yrs. ago and they first became available in the USA. None , I repeat, NONE are so quiet that you cannnot tell if they are operating. Anyone who tells you otherwise is: lying, has another motive, or is partially deaf.

Also, when the contractor installed the sink did they use a bracing under sink such as a 2x4 that they make have slid through the pass through slot for the electrical and water, and drain hose of the dishwasher thereby resting against the dishwasher's housing?

Antss - If you reread your message I believe you are attacking and I'm not sure why. You may choose to believe me or not that is your choice (however, it isn't just me that has noticed). FYI - My husband is a retired automotive mechanic and is used to dealing with noise "issues/challenges" - he also agrees but is at a loss on why it would have changed. If my statement about "putting my hand on the dishwasher" upset you than I am sorry (not sure why but you do seem to be taking this personally). The bottom line isn't if it is "good enough" compared to others, the fact is it is louder and changed very quickly (Christmas was fine, then in Jan. it was different and I don't believe I changed that much during that short time). The noise may be acceptable and livable, but it is noticeably louder and different (and for me when something mechanical changes I wonder why and worry it is part of other problems).

Fahrenheit 451 - The contractor didn't remove the dishwasher when installing the sink. Yes the sink is stainless steel. The connection hose does rest on a pipe then down to the cabinet floor, where it runs along the floor, through a hole then connects to the dishwasher . Miele tech didn't remove the dishwasher, only the door. I don't know about the connection to the Waterproof box but I doubt the contractor would have changed it (but I will ask my husband). Again - sorry I don't know how the sink was installed, I wasn't around when it was done. Out of curiosity, how would that impact the sound (I can find out how it was installed).

FYI - I have 3 other Miele appliances and do love them all. I'm only trying to find a cause and hopefully a solution.

Thanks for all of your help.

Ml25 -- I'm with you. We have a 2-year old Miele and it is vastly quieter than any dishwasher we've ever had. Yes, I can hear the water draining from the Miele (softely and gently and only if I listen hard) but I genuinely DO have to bend down and put my ear close to the door and/or put my hand on it to hear it while it's on a wash cycle. Really. Honest. We paid a premium price for having a machine that was quieter -- vastly -- than our old Whirlpool, and I'd be ticked beyond belief if that suddenly changed. I'm a pretty pragmatic type and not readily swayed by advertising. As you'll see from some of my other posts, I've got plenty of complaints about my high-end, pr-heavy Wolf appliances and even my SubZero. No rosy glasses for me. But the Miele IS as quiet as I hoped (yes, we can have a conversation standing RIGHT next to it while it's running and no one hears it).

I hope you find the answer... and I'll be watching, because I'll be hugely disappointed if mine does the same in another year!!!

ml25,

Well, I for one, believe you when you say that matters have changed. When you live with something long enough you come to know how they work thereby sensing any changes that come about. And some of us are more attune to the world around than others.

The reference to the stainless steel sink is because it can transmit sound easily, and a hose vibrating against it can be heard. If your old sink was not stainless steel you have already learned that stainless steel sinks are nosier when you wash items within them. Both the drain and water supply hoses move about when water is running through them. If a hose is touching the sink simply go to your local hardware store and purchase foam pipe insulation and cover the hose where it makes contact.
It is disconcerting that the Miele Service Representative did not pull the unit out from the cabinetry as it is the smart thing to do in your situation. You would be surprised to see how much construction debris is left in construction where people will never see it as most contractors simply do not care. Beyond that it would have been wise for the rep to have inspected the entire situationnot just the immediately accessible.

Someone said "perception is everything". If you feel attacked, I guess there's nothing I can do. Trust me I have been a whole lot worse and the posting police have even jerked a few threads I've commented on when I HAVE. This is not the case. I do find it interesting that you are not even considering the possibility that it may be percieved. Especially curious is the fact that your hubby was a mech. Certainly he's been party to exactly the same situation: Little ole lady comes in and says my new car has a bla bla bla. He/they look it over, no mech. probs, no defects or TSB, they don't hear anything abnormal. Lady gets it back and is furious because somethings wrong, "it didn't sound that way when I drove out of the showroom." Ask him, I'll bet you he's been there.

As for the service tech. He can read fault codes for the DW's mech and computer systems and replace 97% of all servicable parts on a Miele without pulling it out of the hole. It's part of the design. Now I'll admit it may have been prudent to pull the unit to see if anything may have been causing issues, but even if present they would not have been related to Miele's orig. manufacture or their trained installer. The change / prob would have been due to the subsequent contractor. Nice if a. that was/is the prob. and b. - he'd actually pulled the unit to see.

I have read notes from Miele that the noise level is 42-44 on the top end models. If the nosie is 50-54 then the noise level is twice as high as advertised. You should be able to use a sound meter to locate the source of the noise.

canuck - this illustrates part of the prob. with the internet. Someone reading your post that is not 100% informed would file away your post as gospel. There are a few things to consider though. That 42-44 db. # is from Miele. Do you know what type of equipment they used? How accurate is it? What is it margin of error. How does this compare withthe tech's handheld device. Which do you suppose is more accurate? Where did miele place the pickup for there test? Right next to the DW like the field tech? The testing conditions can vary the results dramatically. The rating is not even standard among the industry. So, it's not really an apples to apples comparison between say a Bosch rated at 41db, an Asko at 40, and a Miele at 42db. Also the G851 was not the top of the line model, it was almost the bottom. It's published db. rating was not 42 either.

The noise is obviously coming from the DW. Just because you can hear the motor, pump, solenoids, ect... now and you couldn't before doesn't make them faulty or broken or worn out.

Miele touts their dishwashers as being quiet. Something has changed wit ml25's situation, and I would not live it. In fact, I am a bit tired of a society that is slipping into mediocrity and simply "living with it."

Another aspect that Miele touts is how even their less expensive units are no different regarding quality, they simply have less features.

451 - I agree w/you re: America's slide into mediocrity. Of course something has changed w ml25's situation, but you cannot with any certainty say it's Miele's fault. It may very well be, but no one reading this post can definitively make that claim. The mere fact that no one even seems to want to consider that it (the new offensive noise)could be the way sound travels and is heard in the kitchen now that there are new counters, a new sink, and a non miele person removed and replaced the unit is very telling in my opinion. It's sooooooooooo much easier to blame the big bad corporation,................or the government, or.................

antss,

I am not saying it is Miele's fault at all. If fact, I was the one pointing-out the contractor is high on the cause-and-effect in this situation. However, the Miele Service Representative was there and should have looked further into the situation and asked the right questions as well (maybe he did ask whether there was any construction or changes, and if he did even more cause to have pulled the unit from the cabinetry); the rep could have easily informed the owner that other issues were at work not related to the unit itself, wrote down on the work order, and decided how to handle it from there with the consent of the owner. If the prior sink were of a different material then noise transmission can be increased through installing a stainless steel sink, but the countertop installation actually reduced noise transmission from under the countertop. I am just saying that someone needs to have the fortitude to get of the bottom of the issue. The world is becoming inundated with lost opportunities, all at the cost of its inhabitants.

I have to agree with antss on this one - this is a 3 year old DW whose surroundings have changed and it makes a little more noise. The Miele technician confirmed that it is working to spec and on top of that it cleans the dishes. I fully believe the OP that it is now noisier BUT they changed the sink, pipes, and counters. The only way to "isolate" the problem would be to reinstall the old sink, counters, etc. and see if it is again quieter! Also, things age. A 3 year old car will likely make more noise than a brand new one.

I agree about America's slide into mediocrity because of people being too accepting (BUT also wanting rock bottom prices) but I don't see this being a case of that. You redo your kitchen and now you have more noise isn't necessarily Miele's fault.

weissman,

I respectfully disagree as there is no need to replicate what once was with all the available ways to rectify the situation. My wife and I have an eleven-year old Asko DW, and the sound has not increased. If Miele dishwashers, after three years, increase in decibels (e.g., by an of average seven) then of what use is it for Miele to sell their products based upon quietness? And a three old vehicle has how many more working parts than a dishwasher. Also, I cannot recall the last time I drove my dishwasher over a speed bump or pothole. ;)

Well I don't really want to continue this debate, but dishwashers are marketed mainly to clean dishes - quietness is just one feature - and how quiet a DW is is a function of many variables including room acoustics, cabinets, plumbing, etc. and measurements are not standardized in any way. My KA DW model is very quiet but others on this forum have complained about it being too noisy - that can be a function of the room, installation, person's individual tolerance, etc. And we don't know that the OPs DW noise has gone up 7 decibels - was it ever measured in their house before the change in sink, etc.? I actually don't think it's a function of the DW getting older - I personally think it's a function of the plumbing changes that the OP made. I just think there are too many variables here to blame the problem on Miele.

ml25,

Just to clear matters a bit are you saying that this is a Miele issue (I read your post differently, but I could be incorrect). Since you said that it would cost $500+ to replace pump I am guessing that your unit does not have an extended warranty? In my area an out-of-warranty service call is $175USD, did you have to pay approximately the same for your service calls? Sorry to hear about you having to undergo a quality of life issue as my wife and I are avid readers, so something like this would bother us as where read is close to the kitchen.

451 - I didn't say, one way or the other really, who's problem it is. At this point I'm not sure.

No we didn't have an extended warranty (lesson learned) and yes we did pay for the service call with Miele (similar price to what you quoted). Miele did not charge for the 2nd call.

A couple of clarification points -

1 - the 43db rating is from Miele Canada's website on our model, not any assumption from me.
2 - the 1st service call - the person thought it was the pump
3 - the 2nd service call - the tech didn't say it "met specs" what he did say is he has determined it to be in the "good" range (even with his reading between 50-54).
4 - Not sure if it is my job to worry if the Miele tech and Miele spec posted is measured the same way - I would hope Miele would worry about that.
5 - part of me wishes we hadn't brought in the DB point. The bottom line is it is noisier than before. If it is a plumbing issue - fine I'm just looking for an answer. The Miele tech checked all connections and plumbing and said it was fine.
6 - FYI - this was not a major kitchen remodel - just a reface. No cabinetry has been changed or appliances moved. The counter was fitted with a granite overlay (didn't need to remove existing countertop), with a new tap and undermount sink. I'm assuming this is why the Miele tech didn't feel the need to remove the dishwasher since the cabinet and the install of the machine wasn't touched - just the connection hoses (by the way Miele also did the original install).

At this point I'm not blaming either our plumber or Miele - just trying to find a solution. As someone else stated above - they had the same problem with their Bosch and our retailer has also heard of this happening a few years after the install. For all I know it might not be related to any of the work done (since it was completed in August and this started in Jan this year). Maybe it is related to the original install who knows. The reason for going directly to Miele is I hoped they would have been the best and quickest source to have a solution (I expect a knowledge base to be available to their techs indicating how the problem could be solved).

Maybe I'm more stubborn than most but I believe, somewhere out there, there is a solution.

Thanks to everyone who is trying to help.

I will say it again get a sound meter and use it too help find the source. Keep it the same distance away from the unit 4-6". Go inside your side cabs or if you have 2 go into both. You should see higher readings from some areas. The readings you find should be higher than the 50-54 the tech got. Sound is somewhat additive. The higher areas are wher the main source of the sound is coming from

Canuck99 - That is a good suggestion (sorry I missed it earlier). We will try that over the weekend and keep you posted.

At this point I'm not blaming either our plumber or Miele - just trying to find a solution.

This is the manner in which I read it throughout the thread starting with your very first post. Since you paid for the Miele service call, I would have expected they do more than the cursory tech checkoff list. Please keep up posted as your final conclusion is something I would like to hear about.

P.S. I have had the privilege of retaining excellent Acoustic Engineers for commercial building purposes regarding both legal and building construction aspects; most people do not know they exist or what they provide. In your case the expense would be exorbitant, but I cannot understate how important sound issues can be to the quality of life.

antss is the one who's full of crap, it seems! :)

I have the La Perla and I guess I must be deaf then, because I can hardly ever hear it in operation. I had a guest over the other day, just the two of us in the kitchen with the dishwasher running at night. We were chatting when all of a sudden she asked "wait, is your dishwasher on?" I said yes, she didn't believe me, so I had to show her the display that it was running and had her put her ear to the door.

The Mieles ARE quiet, super quiet in fact -- at least the newer top line models. If you are noticing the dishwasher sounding louder, then I believe you that something has caused it to be louder -- don't believe people who tell you to doubt yourself, you know best after all!

Sometimes the items you load into the dishwasher cause a change in noise level. For instance, if I run the dishwasher with only a few items in it, I can hear it running. If I load it to the max, I'll bet you $100 you can't hear it while standing next to it.

Maybe you've just been running lighter loads lately?

This started just after Christmas and we have had family over since then (never a light load when they are around). Our loads haven't changed a lot and we tend to only run it when it is full (and since my husband loves to cook we tend to have lots of pots and pans plus normal dishes). Very rarely do we run it when it isn't full (I hate wasting water and energy).

I appreciate the support. I will probably be running it later tonight and will try Canuck99's suggestion. I will keep you posted.

Thanks everyone.

sstava - talk about attacking........

your first post re: the shifting or deteriateing insulation and the shifted DW causing the xtra loudness is what borders on being crap. If you knew anything @ Miele Dw's you'd know there really isn't any insul. to shift. The top pads on on some models , even if taken away would not cause a noticeable increase in sound. Especially to someone who can't even hear their DW at all. Better get your ears checked. While Mieles and Askos, and many Bosch DW's are very quiet, I have yet to hear one that runs below the threshold of average human hearing. I'll take you c-note bet, and if you win, I can make a couple of calls to some of the suits a @ Miele and I'll guarentee they'll be on your doorstep within 24 hours with more engineers thna you can shake a stick at to duplicate the "totally silent" DW. I'll bet the marketing wonks will give you a spot front and center in the new ad campaign too.

I'll also bet the sound check reveals that the higher noises come from the bottom (where the motor and valves are located), the Left side (where the main waterways are) and the front door (where the water swooshes onto the door from the spray arms). I fail to see how the db test is going to help unless test were preformed at the initial install so baseline values could be established.

ATTENTION GUYS................................in all the slinging going on around here the point I'm really trying to make is that no one seems willing to acknowledge that the is not ACTUALLY louder, but still the same. I'm not really saying ML25 is wrong when s(he) says it's (sounds) louder. I'm saying that it's POSSIBLE that s(he) only percieves it to be louder because of the different parameters of the remodel work. Many of you that don't like what I'm saying have given me no evidence that this is not a possibility. You want to sluff it off on the poor technician, or the factory, or the orig. installers - or the remodle contractor, or.... Why is it that no one ewill even CONSIDER that yes, it does sound louder, but that the only reason it does is because there have been a few changes in the materials in the kitchen directly adjacent to the DW?

Look , I'm not saying that there isn't a problem with this unit, there might very wel be. How do you suppose that we should go about finding it? 1 or 2 techs have looked at it and said nothing is out of order mechanically. What do you want to do, just start swapping out parts till ML25 is satisfied? What if that point is not reached? Who's to pay for the parts? Let's say Miele picks up those, are you willing to pay the labor at 50-100 bucks an hour to swap those free parts? What if during the course of swapping another problem is caused, is Miele or the tech on the hook for that? I'm sure you'd get a disclaimer and waiver saying: we'll do this, but don't advise it because nothing is officially wrong with the unit, therefor you'll have to bear responsibility for any mishaps of us trying to fix a working unit.

I have the LaPerla also. I figure that if anything is rated in dbs then there is a possibility that you will hear it. Sometimes I don't hear mine, other times I do. Seems to depend on what else is going on and oddly enough the time of day. If I run it at night and sit there and listen for it - I will hear it. If I run it during the day and am busy with other things....I don't notice it and yes it has been opened in the middle of a wash because it wasn't noticed...but then again..I was occupied and was listening for it either.

Ml25 - if your dw uses salt is it full? Does it need any?
I am not sure if you described the extra sound you hear...does it sound like a whine or is the sound of water hitting around?

The granite overlay - is this simply a piece of stone that is placed on top of the existing counter such that the counter is still under the overlay?

Just a little education on sound and relative to other noises. The 40-50 is from a quite livingroom to office noise. http://www.southwoodresources.com.au/southwood/pdf/planning/APPMSEMF.PDF

Check the noise change difference that can be heard.

jerrod6 - no salt. I don't hear any whining just a louder sound (water hitting around is a good description during the wash cycle) but even the pump is louder. Your description of the granite overlay is correct - same counter under the overlay. Time of day doesn't matter or if I'm busy or not busy it is loud enough we don't make that mistake about opening anymore (we used to) and neither do other folks (even though they used to open it by mistake)

FYI to all - not just me that has noticed. Others, including my friend and her husband, who also own a Miele, commented that it "didn't sound like a Miele" and it was noisier than they have heard before (and yes over the last 3 years we have had them over for dinner and have run the dishwasher while they were here).

Results of the sound meter (not sure if this helps)

- top is 1db lower than the bottom (all around the machine)
- back of machine is 1db higher than the front (both sides)
- left side and left front is 1db higher than the right (fyi, the sink is on the right of the machine)
- when pump starts the db rating goes up 7-8db
- FYI - the last Miele tech added more insulation to the front door panel (yes they can do that) and we did notice a slight improvement - this latest test showed that the overall sound level, compared to when I did it before, have lowered approx 1-2db.

If the background noise is low 40-45 db with no major spike in any spot and then the pump starts and then when the pump is running the sound is in the 50-52 range I would say it is pump related. The High end is rated no louder than 41 in other parts of the world. The next model down is rated at no louder than 44. If you look at 44 it should be on the low end of living room quite. So 50+ I would say something is wrong.

ml25,

I hope you can find the cause of the increase in noise in your DW. I am trying to decide what dw to buy for a new home so I have read this entire thread. Please update this if anything changes.

Just an fyi tidbit, when by builder grade GE dw was about a year old, the pump started making much louder noises than usual. I had to replace that pump and the noise level decreased a lot. It is still a much louder dw than the new quiet ones, of course. But I am just relating how the new pump affected the noise level.

Good luck with your Miele!

Ginny

OK

- If the insulation is the same....
- If there are no holes in the DW for sound to come out from.
- The information says the sound is basilly the same in all areas.
- the pump is moving the same water around the unit.
The only moving part is the pump/motor then I would have to say either the bearings are gone or failing in the motor or pump. So as noted above when you start the unit the sound goes up goes up 7-8 units which is amost a doubling in noise level.

Let the tech tell you why it is not! the motor or the pump making the extra noise.

just wondering if somehow the granite overlay has amplified the existing noise and made it louder somehow?

The first tech also thought it was the pump but didn't sound convincing (more of a "we might want to replace the pump" approach). Since it will cost us about $500 to do this we were hesitant (next time definitely getting an extended warranty). I asked for the "best" and most senior tech to come and see to "confirm" the first tech (which Miele kindly did). However, the 2nd tech believes the problem is "acceptable" and didn't confirm if it could be the pump.

grapepeeler - we thought about the granite overlay but the noise level didn't get any louder until 4 months after it was completed. I would have expected to notice the change right away.

I haven't had a chance to phone Miele back but my guess is we will just have to live with it. However, I will be sending a "formal" letter so it is on record (in case there is a underlying problem and it gets worse).

Thanks for all of the advice and help,

ml25

ml25,

I wonder if your problem is related to the main wash pump?

I understand on other makes such as Bosch, the wash pump motor assembly is suspended on rubber mounting brackets.

Maybe Miele has a similar setup; and maybe one of them has failed, possibly allowing the motor to vibrate against another structural item?

Any updates?

No update on the sound issue. We had decided to live with it (since we don't really want to start paying for replacement items without knowing if it would help or not).

However we now have a new issue. The rinse aid light is coming on frequently. Since mid-March we are filling it every 2-3 weeks (most recently it only lasted 9 days. Since we don't run the dishwasher every day so this is quite a lot(and of course this is a recent change, never had this problem before). We have phoned Miele and a tech is coming on May 15th.

rolls rapide - when I see the tech I will ask them about the setup and see what they say. Thanks for the suggestion.

I'll keep you posted. Thanks again.

ml25-

re: the rinse aid--my less-than-a-year-old Inspira was suddenly running through rinse aid like crazy. Then one day I noticed green gook coming from under the dishwasher toe kick (cabinetry). Turns out the dispenser was defective--rinse aid was running out the dispenser, down the exterior of the door (not into the tub, but behind the door panel, so it wasn't visible).

So, if you have a toe-kick, you may want to remove it to see if you see any rinse aid on the floor. May not be your issue, but it couldn't hurt to check.

Fascinating - don't forget to update us after the tech comes. Even if the call is for the rinse aid - definitely discuss the noise issue. I don't want to be shot for saying it - but on another thread I spoke to how quiet my Miele Diamante is - I am one of those persons that have had to put my hand on it to see if its on.