The concern for cool season grasses using N to start growing leaves again as a result of the late Fall application was addressed here: "For the late-season concept to work successfully, it is essential that the turf be green when the late (October / November/December)) nitrogen application is made. In central Ohio, this means that 0.75 to 1.0 lb of quickly available nitrogen (such as urea, urea/PCSCU, urea/IBDU or highly-active MU, etc.) should be applied during September. This will ensure that the grass will remain green late into the fall when the actual late-season application will be made. It is also important, however, that excessive shoot growth not be encouraged by over-application of nitrogen during September. The production of lush, succulent growth then may decrease cold tolerance and increase the incidence of the snow mold diseases during the winter and following spring. For the same reasons, the(late-season)October/November/December) application should be delayed if extended periods of unusually warm weather (average daily temperatures greater than 55-60 F degrees) are being experienced, or are forecast. In Ohio, the general timing recommendation is late October, November and late November/December in northern, central and southern Ohio, respectively." So it is important that the September application doesn't spark lush growth but gets the growth to be normal and green. If the grass is growing normally the Fall nitrogen should not have a huge effect on top growth as long as the temps remain cool. Coordinating the 2 applications seems to be a critical step, rather than just 1 app in the late Fall.

IronBelly: Thanks for your immediate response and the recommended link, which I've already checked out. When I arrive "home" this weekend, (more on that below **) I'll check out the University of Wisconsin and see if I can find out further information on the subject and either obtain a booklet from them or print out the information from the link you provided. A "Rain Garden" sounds like an interesting and worthwhile project. I am not certain that it may be entirely suited for our particular yard, since parts of our yard are rather "wet" during the spring - the moisture does drain slowly - at times. I don't know if it is because the water table is high and/or the ground is made up of heavy clay and/or if there are some minor springs around or a combination of several things. I'll have to ask my wife, Sue, who along with her former husband, bought the house many years ago. Speaking of Jock - time passes by so quickly - it must have been a few decades ago when I met Jock and saw his slide presentation. He showed one photograph of someone's house out on the edge of a city - I think or the country - the owner didn't wish to be a "horticultural drug dealer" any more (my phrase) and/or be over involved in the grass game (fertilizing, watering, grass cutting on end throughout the summer) and so removed the grass, etc. and planted prairie plants and grasses. Rather impressive when it finally came into full maturity. A "Rain Garden" project interests me for another reason. Sue and I have been thinking about putting in a small, hopefully inexpensive, water garden of some sort. Perhaps - a combination of the two might be something worthwhile to explore as a possibility. I'll have to do some extensive "homework" on this idea and see what Sue and I can come up with. As you indicated, the construction of this combined project, etc. or even a stand alone "rain garden" and finding suitable plants, etc. might be a "tall order in reality". I've been up to the Quad Cities a number of times - to visit and photograph the John Deere Headquarters; take a AVA (American Volkssport Association) hike; to check out the library at Augustana College, where I applied for a position shortly after graduation - see below ** - etc. Having been born and bred on the tallgrass prairie, I often miss its openness, but not, necessarily, the heat and humidity of prairie summers. ;>) ** FYI - I am a Librarian (MLIS - Rosary College - now Dominican Unversity, 1994) with the Michigan Department of Corrections and work in the St. Louis/Alma area of Michigan during the week and go home to Manistee during the weekend, holidays, and vacations. Did my undergraduate studies at Simpson College in Indianola, Iowa. (BA - History/Political Science, 1964). Again, thanks for your quick response and, especially, for your generous comments on my posting regarding the "Pro Gardening Auger System", which I have been using to plant bulbs and a few other plants before winter sets in. One or two folks in the Anitique Roses forum really got their underwear caught up in a bundle over my posting! Kind of surprised me in a way. Oh well. Thanks again and I'll talk with you later. Bill

Well they didn't get our slab poured on Monday, they had to put the gravel down and that didn't get done. They put some gravel down yesterday and are supposed to let us know how much more they need to finish it and pour slab next week. I sure was hoping to say on Dec. 1st we are framing but not that lucky. Tomorrow will be busy cooking and celebrating Thanksgiving for the last time in my tiny Townhome kitchen with no counter space! Next year I'll have an Island and way more counter space and a double oven :-) We've had to make some changes to our plans as the builder didn't catch that we had a pocket door on the main level that wouldn't make the upstairs room right, so we changed to a regular door and moved the pocket door to the laundry room (my DH made that call not me as I didn't want it there either). gscott - we are getting Anderson 100 windows, so I'll have to let them know we want that color. Your is awesome.

@di0spyr0s I think it was very kind of you to build a concrete home just so your cats would have the perfect viewing perches... I literally caught my backyard neighbor once bending down to get a better look up into my current bathroom window through his bushes. It was like he saw me moving around and suddenly couldn't stop himself--not like he was out there just to do that. Even so, it was creepy. I knew if people tried, they could see in, but I figured it was far enough away, what could they discern. However, after witnessing him, I promptly put up privacy window film. Makes the window look frosted. It has worked steadily for nearly 7 years. I did have to bleach one edge when it started getting mildewy. The master bathroom window of the new home is only 15 feet away from the neighbor. Many of their windows offer a view of us. This time, instead of window film, I might buy the etching cream and make the blur permanent. I'll practice on other glass first, but the videos make it look easy.