insert and liner are the same thing

wood surround is fine as long as you meet the specs of the manufacturer for clearances.

If you vent outside right behind the hood, an inline or remote blower won't make much of a difference over an internal blower.

It is important to keep in mind that equipment installation instructions are meant to be in compliance with generic building codes nationwide and yours could vary somewhat on a local level. It is better to be aware of variations early rather than after the fact. One can easily be misled by "cooking surface distance to hood" which can be different for smooth top vs appliances with higher gas burner grates as an example.

1. As Weissman said, they're the same thing by different names. It's the works of the hood that you can get separately from the decorative housing if you're making the surround (=decorative housing) custom.

2. Yes, you have to be careful with decorative cabinetry (i.e., wood surround), if you're putting in a blast furnace like the Culinarian. The singe factor is about fire. Like if you have a flare up from some fuel falling into the flames, or a have a pan flash off. As Laat2 and Weissman both said, now matter what your stove, you have to follow accepted guidelines. With induction, if you spill half a cup of wine outside of the pot, you get a sponge and say, "Oh, what a waste," and clean it up. If you do that on gas you get WHOOSH. The wood or other combustible material has to be out of WHOOSH range. Even moreso for super hot ranges. This has nothing to do with the correct fitting of the liner. You need that too for it to work correctly. If there's no liner there's no working hood (see #1).

3. See above. You can't go wrong with metal. Even a blast furnace like the Culinarian isn't going to melt a metal hood. Generally, with this kind of range, a metal or stone hood also looks better. It's an imposing range, and deserves an imposing hood.

4. I don't know. There are some modern look hoods that are highly angled. There are some excellent ones that aren't angled much. Interesting question.

5. I don't know this one either. We have a couple of physicists around here. I hope they chime in. Some of it is probably the size of the fan in ratio to the amount of air moved. For instance, my own 1200 cfm hood has two 600 cfm units working together. Therefore, the fans are running slower at the lower settings than a single fan at a higher setting would be. I think this is where the lower air turbulence comes from, but I don't know for sure.

6. Not only possible, but recommended. Size of range is adequate, but for the best capture, especially on a behemoth like the Culinarian, at least 3" extra on all sizes, or even two, will really improve capture. You can see it on your old stove with a steaming pan. The steam angles out in a cone shape. While the suckage of your hood will pull back what it can, a lot more of the cone at the edges will be under a larger hood. That's something I love about my 48" hood. The cooking surface is about 42" and when there's a visible plume, one can see it all getting sucked up.

"Mechanical assistance in filtration..." Just a guess here but I thought VAH when I read that.

The tilt of baffle filters is to get the captured grease to flow down to the grease trays located at the lower end of the baffles. Commercial units have to be at least 45 degrees above horizontal, but residential units seem to be unregulated in that respect. My Wolf Pro Island hood baffles are at a significantly lower angle. (I'll measure it if anyone cares.)

More baffle surface translates to lower air velocity at the baffles, all else being equal. This may reduce noise while reducing grease capture.

Dominant fan noises would include motor noise from vibration and blade tip turbulence. I don't think generalizations about one fan at some speed versus another fan at a different speed should be accepted as canonical truth. Usually running a fan slower will make that fan less noisy although this requires a well behaved fan curve with no positive slopes for all rpm.

Typically, a manufacturer will design so that the fan on maximum produces some tolerable level of noise for its application and cost point. Hence a 1200 cfm rated fan at full speed will normally make more noise than a 1500 cfm rated fan running at a speed where it would pull 1200 cfm at zero static pressure. However, if these fans are manufactured by different sources with different opinions of how much noise is too much, it is not certain that the larger rated fan will be quieter at the lower flow rate. I would hazard that if the larger rated cfm fan is also physically larger, it will likely be quieter at the lower flow rate. All of this ignores many variables including the variation in blower construction.

kas

So love the physics questions although I think practicality answers most of these questions... CFM is a measure of volume vs time. So the motor is rated interms of rotations per minute (RPM) and given the size of the pipe and impellers, the motor can displace a certain volume. So a 1200 CFM rated fan will move 1200 Cubic Feet of air in one minute given all the parameters. But to do that it may need to be rotating say at 3600 RPM. Thus the loud noise. Now a 1600 CFM setup can move 1200 CFM at say 2400 RPM, all things being equal a lower noise. If you add to that the fact that larger diameter pipe means the wind factor is maybe less and other stuff like bearings etc and you get why the large setup is quieter.

On the angled question, yes you are technically right but if I take a rectangle which is flat and has a surface area of WxD it can expose the whole area for suction. Now if I take that same surface area and tilt it by 45 deg, I may get better drainage like explained above from the condensing grease, but I also have reduced the surface area by appx 70%, May make sense for a commercial where you generate so much grease that you really want to make sure you get it out before you condense or even drip back but for a residential system you maybe sacrificing surface area.

Hope this helps in some way... Now about the burning, I think the comments above make a lot of sense to me.

Thanks everyone!

foodstump: it was an earlier GW thread about hoods (what's VAH? Isn't that the distributor mentioned as having been dumped recently by Capital? I must be confused...)

plllog: I wish I could cook you a thank-you dinner for all the fine and on-going advice you offer. Guess I need to figure in a larger hood.

kas: I've been reading your wise, knowledgeable posts for many nights now. You must be one of the physicists, or at least have some inside pipeline on ventillation.

So... angling the baffles means because they're now a hypotenuse there is more surface area exposed, which dampens air velocity and quells noise; so ... residential vents which don't tend to be angled would therefore (all else being equal) be noisier... something's wrong here. Anyway, why would you want to cut velocity when you're spending so much to jack it up? This would argue for less angle than more.

... anyway, the cost:benefit of angle:noise is probably trivial in comparison with the roar from this high powered fan anyway. So I'm going to guess some angle is good and unless I have this backwards, the higher the angle, the quieter the fan (all else equal) and the better the grease-drainage.

Oooohhh ... it took me a while, jazz, but I get why the bigger setup may be quieter at the relevant displacement. Geesh there are a lot of trade-offs.

yes yes about the angling, jazz -- I was thinking just the same thing. So how do you manage the trade-offs? Some tilt, probably even only a little, would be good, right? And then since this isn't a high-volume commercial application, maximizing surface area exposure would be good.

I think I'm slowly getting some sense of what to do here; thanks. Our (peach of a) HVAC guy blanched at the notion of punching a hole in our beautiful new siding and has assured me he will find a way to run a pipe up to the roof. It sounds like 10" will be quieter than 8". Any opinions on this tradeoff? He seemed to think 10" unnecessarily gauche but with the potential for placing an outside blower up on the roof, far from offended ears, ought the pipe diameter to then be upped?

I haven't enough grey matter for all these tradeoffs.

On this forum, VAH usually refers to Vent-a-Hood - a brand of hood that doesn't use baffles. The use of VAH to refer to a distributor was the first reference I'd seen to that.

weissman/foodstump: sorry! Could have been a reference to vent-a-hood; not sure. thanks for the clarification.

plllog, this may sound a little odd, but I've been thinking about your point that the CC is so, well, formidable (or something) that it commands presence and should have a hood to match its authority (again, or something...)... it's just that I'm not actually a particularly macho person and am more than a little, well, embarrassed by macho ranges. I like to cook and I like the few toys that I do own to function well, hence this decision. But I would like that to be a silent help-meet in the background, not a chest-pounding boast. Does this make sense?

Consequently I'd like to *de-emphasize* the beast -- in an "aesthetic" way. I really, really most prefer the look of those hoods that have a curved glass arc, but I don't believe they'll be up to the task of catching this dragon's breath. Then I was thinking I could best mask the works by hiding it inside cabinetry with a wooden surround. But looking through the finished kitchens blog, it seems to me these wooden hoods usually look heavy and a little awkward. It's my impression that the most inconspicuous hood is the under-cabinet one. And further that those with a slight rise in addition to possibly being sensible functionally (see above), might look most aesthetically balanced.

Does anyone else have an opinion on this - what style or how best to *hide* a hood of primary priority being function, then aesthetics?

Another question: any opinions to share about the heat lamps? To me they seem a little gimmicky, and I have no doubt there are detractors and adherents. I've never used or missed such a feature in the past and I bet they're electricity-hogs. Still, perhaps someone has an argument for indispensability they'd care to toss out. Else, my knee-jerk reaction is 'come-on'... maybe it just depends how you cook, whether you've got tons of dishes to keep warm while waiting for others to finish up?

Aliris, thanks for the kind thought. Just pay it forward, that's all the thanks I need. :)

You did interpret what I'd said correctly in your first paragraph here, but there's more to it. This is an aesthetics only question (for those of you tech minded people who aren't into it). The wood surround integrated into the cabinetry is a look that's really about uninterrupted lines of cabinetry. They're excellent for drop in cooktops, and lose a bit of their panache for each step you take away from that, rangetop to range to gonzo range.

Other than the really slim profile undercabinet hoods, which are meant to disappear, the hood is generally meant to be a design statement. This is especially true where there is a cooktop, because a hefty range, in itself, is a major focal point. Throw a big, sparkly range, like the CC, at an integrated wood hood, and instead of downplaying the range, you're making it the focal point. BLING!!

What having the hood match the presence of the range does is balance the range in the design. It's the hat that pulls the eye up from the tight sweater and helps people concentrate on the face. :)

I get the appeal of the glass arc, but it also doesn't balance the range well. In my own kitchen, it's opposite. I spec'd a big, present, undercabinet hood back when I was expecting to put in a range top or equivalent, which it would pair well with. Then I changed my mind and put in cooktop modules, but would have had to change the cabinet design to change the hood size/shape. I looked at options and decided I didn't want to go there. The hood is out of balance, but it does make the statement "cooking happens here".

A hood like

You could also go for art. Get a local artist or student to make you a surround that fits your space and sense of style.

I just think the best way to hide it is in plain sight. :)

Re heat lamps, some people do have and love them, but most just use a warming drawer, or warming setting on their ovens. The French ranges have warming rails for putting plates on the edges of the range. Some commercial ranges do too, but I don't remember if the Culinarian has anything like that. I can't remember who recently said she had a heating mat under a small granite shelf for the same purpose. I think it was in Kitchens in the is stone cold thread. It seems most people who've thought about it will tell you that having a way to warm plates and/or hold finished food at temperature is a good thing. Few go the heat lamp route, but it works.

Actually, I are an engineer, not a physicist.

In the case of the Wolf Pro Island hood, the baffle area is larger than the aperture area because angled baffles are used on both sides of the hood centerline.

I wouldn't make too much of the baffle details unless intending to thoroughly analyze them using some fluid dynamics simulation program. The important thing is that baffles capture the larger grease aerosols and also provide a flame block, just as mesh filters do. The big difference is that baffles do not clog up (unless sheep shearing is your hobby) whereas the mesh filters have to be regularly cleaned to not block the air flow.

kas

Oh, right. Kas is an applied physicist. :)

I'm an artist. An engineer must know a heck of a lot more physics than I do!!! (I'm good at vectors, but am lost when it comes to fluid dynamics.)

weissman/foodstump: sorry! Could have been a reference to vent-a-hood; not sure. thanks for the clarification.

There is Vent-a-Hood,the manufacturer of the hoods.

Then there is Vent-a-Hood of California. It is the distributor of Vent-a-hood in California.It also distributes other brands such as Scottsman and until recently Capital.

it's just that I'm not actually a particularly macho person and am more than a little, well, embarrassed by macho ranges.

Consequently I'd like to *de-emphasize* the beast -- in an "aesthetic" way.

I find this kinda funny in an ironic way.

When the first pictures of the CC came out most said it was "residential" "soft", "curved", "round", "feminine" vis-a-vis the "pro-style,linear,masculine,boxy,iron on iron" Bluestar.

Now the CC is machismo on sterioids?! LOL

I think the CC's performance is clouding the perception of its styling.

Me no expert in the arts but I have noticed the more "good looking" a hood gets, usually the more capabilities it can do.

As for the 8" vs 10", you definitely can go larger but I have never seen a residential hood that needs a 10" as a requirement. If your impeller connector is an 8", you can definitely stay 8", Finally going out the roof probably helps the best as eliminating any 90 deg will infact make the air movement much more efficient.

But my personal opinion is that if you are putting in a piece of art and a great cooking machine, you definitely should complement it both in style and definitely in capabilities.

Well, plllog, your tight-sweater analogy is mighty amusing as we're having just precisely this argument around here nowadays. I sympathize, I think, with dh who is a teacher of many in tight sweaters, required to stay focused while so many, with so little understanding, draw his attention where it ought not to be. How this relates, I'm not quite sure.... I guess to belabor the analogy a bit in the hopes that something might fall out (so to speak), our working hypothesis is that tight sweaters are a little hard to control; there can be unintended consequences. Conversely it is unkind to require behavior that is tacitly being thwarted.

Range-wise? Well, I'm amused too by deeaugeux' historical comments. I didn't really realize the CC was positioned as more feminine, but I admit that I was probably hooked in part because of it; I've never imagined I could ever tolerate those other ranges because they were so pushy; this seemed to permit the power without the pretentiousness. I think that's a bit of the self-serving story I told my insides at least. So .. presuming any of this has a shred of truth somewhere, oughtn't it to be internally aesthetically plausible to stay in keeping with the slightly under-stated original intention and stay demure?

That is, don't wear the tight sweater to begin with, and draw attention away from the externals and onto the ideas.... the ideas being the food and not the machine that cooked it. Or the hood that protected the house from said machine....

I dunno ... I think compromising on a metal hood that's under-cabinet would fulfill that; it's not absent as an in-the-cabinet hood would be; it bows to the reality that a metal hood is *protective*; this is fire we're playing with afterall. But it's not quite so brassy with open space.

I dunno. Spin is easy to generate. I'd love to see links, plllog, to pictures of hoods you think mate their range aesthetically. Mine will not actually be located such that you'll ever get a head-on view of it, so a statement, even were I so inclined or capable, might be moot. But I think my spin argues for an under-cabinet deeper rather than shallower metal insert.

...I just noticed you did reference a couple extant kitchens. But Gizmonike's is a board room, not a kitchen! ;)

Best way to hide is in plain site: true enough. I could try to look into this but I don't actually quite know where to start. I don't know any metal artists. I did finally come across an "inspiration" kitchen from a fellow in Seattle who has fossils all over the place. I remembered I have a piece of green river slate sitting in a closet for 16 years, unadministered -- I wonder whether I could stuff this into a backsplash. How could I wed this to a invisibly-out-there hood? affordably?! The Watts towers come to mind....

Come to think of it re heating, I've actually always been too harried and unfussy-enough to manage to care about heating plates. My Dad used to do that all the time and I tried to copy him, but in the end, food gets tossed on plates and just divvied up around here. The niceties of temperature have never sunk in. I think this is one arena where I can painlessly save money.

Me neither artist nor engineer, but I appreciate a smattering of working knowledge of both. I feel better understanding some of the rudiments of what I'm supposed to be making a decision about. And while I don't know enough about art to be able to distinguish between bs spin and justifiable argument, I do comprehend the value of balance and I will try to honor that virtuous principle.

OTOH, now, in this time of great pressure, I'm actually starting to feel some responsibility toward the range, a hunk of metal afterall?! Geesh. Is there anyone making range hoods out of recycled coke cans?

Try to choose a hood shape that is sympathetic to the CC --I would think a stainless steel barrel or dome would look good. If you want to de-emphasize the presence of the CC, consider having it painted black or some dark color. This will visually decrease the bulk and make it appear to recede (unless it is too stark a contrast with the surrounding cabinets).

CULINARIAN

BLUESTAR

Oh, dear. No spin here. Just trying to be communicative. Not trying to promote any one outlook. If you said you just really wanted a wood hood, I wouldn't try to talk you out of it. I believe you mentioned singing, not house-burn-downing, so it couldn't be too bad.

I'm pretty hopeless at the pictures thing. You could ask for Boxerpups's help in Kitchens. I agree with Sayde that a slightly rounded hood would pair well. Marthavila's red range and hood come to mind, immediately, as well paired, but that's easy when one is talking about such a big statement. There are many ways you could balance your CC. It isn't as out there as many ranges and doesn't require as big a statement.

I'm not sure coke cans would be the best material for a hood, but you might well find someone who would do you a canopy from recycled autobody or something similar. Just start calling around if you want to find an artist. Call colleges where they teach art, art supply stores, autobody shops, metal fabricators, metalworking supply stores, etc.

Someone around here was going to make an old oil drum into a hood canopy. I don't know what came of that, but there might be a similar DIY version that you could undertake yourself.

In general, for balance, I think you need at least 10" in height. The rest is up to you. :)

This is the 42" hood I picked. Along with a 1400cfm external blower.

Unless I find an outrageously good deal on a "36 Bluestar will put a "36 Culinarian underneath it.

Deeageaux -- (LOL)^2! am receiving replies via email and the pictures don't come through this way so I just got the text "CULINAREAN" and "BLUESTAR" -- I had no idea what that meant til I got to the website. Very funny. Wasn't that Linda something-or-other, the actress? What on earth would *she* pick for a hood?

And do you really mean to tell me that you've picked a hood first and will select the range afterwards? I'm sure there's more to it than that....

I so agree that's a very pretty hood. I'm not exactly sure how much limited funds is driving a go-lightly decision, but it's part of the picture as well. While never any good at budgets (as one who works with numbers for a living I have an absolutely terrible practical understanding of them), my general rule-of-thumb is save money where you can and/or haven't got strong feelings to begin with. As making a statement doesn't really feel right, my natural parsimony just sort of blossoms about this decision. In fact, maybe a stroll through CL or a salvage yard would be called for....

Thanks for all the aesthetic thoughts. I do feel like I'm beginning to get a handle on this decision, visually as well as theoretically. I appreciate all the help from all. The engineers' and physicist's perspectives are really, really helpful too: thanks. I had been hoping Mr Kas would weigh in....

And do you really mean to tell me that you've picked a hood first and will select the range afterwards? I'm sure there's more to it than that....

The Independent hood, 12" high duct cover,and blower are normally $4500 plus.

I got the package delivered to my house for $900 from a new liquidator on Ebay looking to get feedback from a 10 year ebay vet and launch his ebay business. So he took by lowball offer.

Too good a deal to pass up regardless of which range I go with.

I think it looks perfect over a Culinarian and good over a Bluestar.

Wasn't that Linda something-or-other, the actress? What on earth would *she* pick for a hood?

That is Linda Carter as Wonder Woman and Lou Ferrigno as the Dodger Blue Hulk. LOL

Like her plane, WW would pick an invisible, sleek, and powerful hood.

The Hulk would pick 4" thick cast iron hood with a 1 Million CFM blower.

deeageaux, thanks for the pictures - I don't think I remembered how hot Linda Carter was. WW just might make a pretty good CC mascot. But after playing with my burners way too much, I think the following comparison might be a bit more appropriate. Yes, you need a good hood.

INRS,

Nah, I like this better.

In general, I believe the best prices I've seen for hoods have been on ones that are made and sold as units (i.e, canopy and works).

I don't know anything much about the brands, but just as a for instance, I Googled 42"/1200 cfm, and there are quite a few nice looking ones for less than $2000.

Pillog,

I wanted more than nice looking.

I wanted top notch quality and performance.

Like 16 guage 304 SS and seamless construction.

I could also get a 36" NXR for $3500 instead of the 36" Culinarian for $5300.

You guys are hysterical. I think there was some Monty Python skit that resulted in someone pulling out a blow torch over something or other. Kinda reminds me of this. I think of that when I see people blow-torching their delicate creme brul�es too.

Where do you even *look* for a hood on ebay?

BTW, isn't there kinda a lot of loose wiring around all that rocketry? Wouldn't pass code around here....

You know, for something with not a lot of loose parts and doesn't, frankly, involve rocket science, it seems to me there's a pretty vast range of pricings available in acceptable hoods. It starts with a windsters in the $700 range for 42" under-counter types. But then is there a lot of money required additionally for ducting?

Whoops, sorry -- posted too early. I was just wondering about the vast price range from $700 - $4K+ -- seems like a big difference given the minimal job required from this appliance. Dunno, maybe it's only that I'd never thought about a hood before in my life; I'm kinda surprised to discover there's this whole other kitchen appliance to spend a huge amount of money on that doesn't even produce anything edible.

I have to admit I didn't do a lot of research on hoods, and in the end was astonished on how much $ I spent on one. At the beginning, my GC told me he worked with a hood installer who had a direct line with Modern Aire, I would get a great price. So I was pretty far down the path when I found out that a great price probably wasn't. I agree that the top end price range for a hood just seems out of line. My hood works great and looks great and appears to be extremely well built so I'm happy with it, but I will always wonder if I should have done more leg work and saved a grand or two.

Slightly closer to topic...I have cleaned my baffle filters twice. Once in the dishwasher, and once in the sink. I seemed to get better results cleaning them by hand in the sink. Anyone else clean their baffles in the DW and does it work for you?

Jon

The benefit of 304 SS is that it doesn't rust as easily as lower grade SS.In a kitchen enviroment it shouldn't really.

The thick 16 gauge will prevent warping over time resulting from the heat output of the BS/CC.

The seamsless construction prevents grease from depositing in the seams which makes it very difficult to clean. Eventually rust results.

Remote blower allows a more powerful blower plus less noice,especially if it is more than 6 feet plus away with a silencer.

Silencers are about $150-$200 and the ducting is not very expensive.

BTW: The price for Top End Appliances in any category seem out of line:)

BTW II: I don't know if the ebay question is a serious one but you go under Home & Garden then click Inside the Home,then Major Appliances,then Ranges and Cooking Appliances,and finally Range hoods.

Or search "42 Hoods" and set a price range to exclude things like sweatshirts.

Here is a link that might be useful: Ebay Range Hoods

Oh, Deeageaux, I wasn't trying to dissuade you! Just saying that for what Aliris said, budget friendly, high cfm, under cabinet, that there were some cheaper alternatives (maybe not seamless or something). Definitely, a bargain is even better!