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petemich1

Grandma's dish is a ???

petemich1
17 years ago

Hi.

I cannot figure out what my grandmother's dish is.

It has a rim around the edge and a separate inside in the middle. The lid covers the middle part.

Maybe to put a necklace on? And earrings and rings in the inside? Yet, it appears to have a handle, which does not make much sense.

It is a dish to look at or a dish to use?

If the photo link does not work, let me know.

Thanks,

Michele

Here is a link that might be useful: Photos of Grandma's dish.

Comments (42)

  • lazy_gardens
    17 years ago

    It's pretty, but I can't see more than one photo.

    I think Kodakgallery requires people to join to see the pictures.

  • petemich1
    Original Author
    17 years ago

    Hello Lazygardens,

    I changed the link. It should work this time and let you see more than one photo.

    Sorry about before.

    Michele

    Here is a link that might be useful: Try this link to see the dish.

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  • lazy_gardens
    17 years ago

    Michele -
    It beats the heck out of me ... it appears to be meant to be picked up.

    But it's utterly impractical for a serving dish, even for the era it is from.

    Perhaps it is a part of a feminine letter-writing set, missing some interior parts like the stamp holder and inkwell.

  • petemich1
    Original Author
    17 years ago

    Hmmmm... interesting idea. There is no staining, so my initial reaction is that it would not be part of an ink desk set. However, maybe the user was very careful. Or it did not hold the ink jar/container.. Probably my grandmother bought it because she liked it, not because she had a specific use.

    Also, overall, it is not a large dish, on the small side. Yet is worn in some areas on the side, which supports the theory that it is meant to be held/carried and *used* as a __________.

    Thinking some more ,,,, I do have a rather unusual ashtray & cigarette holder of hers that makes sense when you know how to use it. Otherwise it just looks like a pretty flower.

    I don't smoke, but wonder if cigarettes would fit in the middle. However, not much room for ash, and I don't see any burn marks. But, again, the flower one does not have any burn marks either.

    I will have to dig out the flower one as it is packed away. ...Ahhhhh, maybe the rim part is to hold the used matches and one uses a different ash tray. Or maybe there was a coordinating ash tray at some point.

    My grandmother did not smoke, but she did entertain, so this may be a possibility.

    Thanks for the stream of thought beginning with your suggestion! Maybe I have enough for an internet search now?!

    Michele

  • lindac
    17 years ago

    I think it is a desk something....perhaps stamps and paper clips...mostly for pretty not for "practical". Because it's not marked, I suspect it came directly from "the old country" probably Germany...because it just has some of the characteristics as the R.S. Germany and R. S. Prussia items.
    Very nice!
    Linda C

  • petemich1
    Original Author
    17 years ago

    Well, per my last posting, I searched and searched for cigarette holders etc and nothing was remotely close. -- I need to dig out my cigarette holder & ashtray to show how clever the designs could be. I NEVER knew what it was, only that it was a flower and that it was my favorite gee-gaw. Then, when G-ma clcosed up her home, I asked for it and learned then what it was.

    Linda, a desk something it must be. It just does not look like a dresser something unless it would hold rings and bracelets. But, then the handle does not make sense.

    My grandmdother's family came from Germany. Grandfather's, too. I think both my grandparents were born here, but I don't think all their parents were.

    I do know that one of my "greats" came over in the time when Germany held the two flags -- I think it was around 1875. At that time the flags were the Imperial War Flag (1867-1921) and the National flag of the second German Reich (1871-1919), with overlap beginning in 1871. (The second German Reich flag replaced the Flag of North Germany (1867-1871) as the flags look alike.) Which would have (a her, I think) born in the time of the National Flag and Trading Flag (1848-1866). Perhaps all this unrest is why immigration happened.

    And, my grandmother (and subsequently my mom) liked and had many R.S. Germany and R.S. Prussia items. I used to think these were pretty much the only companies who made nice ceramics/porcelains.

    What I need to ask my mom is if this is a family piece or if it is a purchased one. All she told me is that it was my grandmothers (who died many years ago) and that it had no markings, and that she did not know its function.

    Thanks Linda for the info, perhaps I can do some more searches.

    Michele

  • lindac
    17 years ago

    And, thank YOU for the info on the two flags bit....If it hasn't to do with "things' my knowledge of world history is sadly lacking!
    And, there are lots of "things" out there advertised and reported to be "unmarked R.S. Prussia"...but I don't think anything ever came from those factoriesw ithout a mark...
    But there are peel and stick "marks" for R. S. Prussia that un scruplous dealers apply to unmarked German pieces.....the fake mark scratches off with a finger nail.
    I repeat, your dish is lovely!
    Linda C

  • petemich1
    Original Author
    17 years ago

    Linda,

    An intersting thing to me about this dish is how light they made it. See the upside down photo. There was a lot of work gone into making the mold for this item.

    Glad you enjoyed the flag info. I found it to be interesting also. Our country (US) only changed its flags as we added "parts" --- and not that often at that. So, it is interesting for me to think of a great or great-great grandparent living in a country during several flags.

    Maybe I will take my dish over to an antique store I shop occasionally. Maybe they will know some more ...

    Michele

  • Chemocurl zn5b/6a Indiana
    17 years ago

    Might it have held false teeth?...maybe wooden ones?

    I'd love to know just what it is for sure. I hope you get it solved.

    Sue

  • petemich1
    Original Author
    17 years ago

    Hi Sue,

    I don't think it is big enough inside for false teeth. But, what a concept! They had to have something for them. And, those who could afford nice porcelain would be able to afford false teeth.

    Been curious abour your name for some time.... chemocurl because you "do hair" or because chemo curled your hair?

    I need to go measure to see if teeth would fit! This is like a fun treasure hunt.

    Michele

  • alicia7
    17 years ago

    I think you dish must be from another planet...Never ever saw anything like it. Can't wait to find out!!!

  • petemich1
    Original Author
    17 years ago

    Hello,

    It's me again....

    I have been searching and searching the web and can find "teaser" information about porcelain "molds" -- but no site actually gives me info.

    The most promising I found was reference to a book that had mold descriptions and photos -- of course, "book out of stock," (possibly out of print -- don't quite remember as I looked so many places.) And, this book would tell me the kinds of things to look for re the characteristics of the molded piece. So, if no photo of my exact piece, at least I would be able to see the kinds of details the factory produced. And, my piece definitely has LOTS of molding details. So, presumably I cound either confirm or deny the possibility of this being an unsigned R.S. Prussia.

    From several sources, I have learned that R.S. Prussia DID let unsigned pieces out of the factory, both blanks and painted. That the complexity and beauty of my dish's shape is nice enough to be from the "better" factory [R.S. Prussia vs R.S. Germany], the first factory -- ie of the "first brother," which is the first factory and that was operating the least amount of time. The "other factory" made more, was open longer, but the pieces were more simple.

    Also, the second factory was one of the places some blanks were shipped to from the first factory, but usually it would have both stamps if the second factory painted it and the first one made it.

    So, this could date my piece, but I would need to be able to learn more about the R.S. Prussia molds. I am hoping that if I can find a mold, that this will also tell me what the function of my dish is. Or at least give me an idea the function as well as let me date the piece.

    Speaking of dating the piece. If it is R.S. Prussia, then probably it did not come over with my great-great-grandparent as she/he probably came over "too soon."

    How great the web is, yet how frustrating!

    Michele

  • Chemocurl zn5b/6a Indiana
    17 years ago

    When I had chemo about 8 years ago, it knocked out 1/2 my hair, and when the new hair came in, it was beautiful curls. I could wash it and finger comb it and it was perfect...I had a good stylist. I got my first email adress about that time, and have been chemocurl about everywhere since. That makes things simple for me, and I like simple.

    You go girl! You're gonna find out what this is yet.
    I'm banking on it.

    Sue...who has since lost most all of the curls

  • petemich1
    Original Author
    17 years ago

    Sue,

    Like you, I have a "$30K" perm. And, like you, the good news is that the curls have lasted "longer than 6 months."

    I also have darker hair, less eyebrows and less eyelashes. But, I can finger comb and have ringlets.

    The longer the hair, the heavier, so am not as curly now as earlier. I went from "Blonde and Fluffy" hair to "Dark Brown and Curly"

    And, seem to be growing in lighter and lighter eyebrows as time goes on, which is kinda wierd. My eyebrows are disappearing on my face. At some points you can't see anything unless you look real close. Which is strange for me because I have ALWAYS had dark eyebrows, no matter how light my hair was -- and as a kid it was very blonde. Blonde hair and black eyebrows. People thought I dyed my hair. Each year it got a little darker, so that it became a dirty blonde vs a light blonde.

    But, even if I don't have dark eyebrows or long eyelashes now, at least I have hair (nice hair, at that) -- and I have met several ladies whose hair did not grow back, so I have perspective.

    Anyway, everytime I see your chemocurl name, it makes me think of chemo curls.

    Congratulations on your recovery and 8 "extra years." I am at 3 and counting.

    And, still researching what that darn dish is!

    Michele

    Here is a link that might be useful: before and after photos of curls

  • lisa77429
    17 years ago

    What an interesting piece! Possibly an invalid feeding dish/baby food dish? It's hard for me to tell from the pictures, but is there sufficient depth to hold water all around the inner bowl?

    You've got me searching too LOL. VERY interesting.

  • petemich1
    Original Author
    17 years ago

    Yes and no re the water all around the inner bowl. There is that low point on the one side ...

    I also thought about it possibly being a baby feeding dish. I searched baby feeding dishes the other day and came up blank. Nothing even remotely close.

    Invalid dish is intriguing. But, how to search on something like that? But, you never know,....

    internet, here I come ...

    Michele

    ps, alicia7's idea of a dish from another planet begins to hold some interest.... (ha ha ha)

  • lindac
    17 years ago

    It's just a "pretty thing". The Victorians had lots of "pretty things" for no reason at all. Do you think all those lace edged doilys had a purpose....other than to keep soemone busy making the lace and another busy laundering them.
    An infant or invalid feeding dish was typically a porringer...a bowl with a handle or a small dish with a spout....sometimes called a gruel feeder.
    I also had a $35K perm but it has grown out and with the help of L'oriel the color is back to what it used to be almost 8 years ago! I should search my pictures and make a file of before, during and after....but I wore a wig and got lots of compliments....people said..."Oh! I like your hair that way!" LOL!...They don't say that since it's grown back!!
    Linda C

  • lisa77429
    17 years ago

    With the worn areas - handle section right? - it just seems that it was something useful at one point. Something that required frequent holding.

    Ok, how about a jam/jelly/butter dish? Could that be a petite spoon/knife holder on the edge? Passed around the table nightly?

    Sheese, I just don't know LOL. What a fun mystery though.

  • gillianma
    17 years ago

    Part of a vanity set and a "hair tidy?" The surround might have been used for hairpins? How big is it?

    Even before I saw chemocurl's post I was wondering about vanity sets and thinking Grandma's dish might be a "hair tidy." Ladies used to brush and comb their long hair, clean the brushes and save the hair neatly in a covered container. This was so that they could later have the hair converted into a hairpiece to make their buns and chignons look bigger and thicker!

    I have really never seen anything quite like grandma's dish before and I admit this is a total guess! My own grandmother had a hairtidy, but she threw away the hair.

    A belated hello all, my first visit here. I had a question, but was browsing before posting it.

    :-)

  • yborgal
    17 years ago

    If your grandmother was Catholic, could this be a personal Holy Water stoup?

  • Chemocurl zn5b/6a Indiana
    17 years ago

    Have you ever taken it to a antique mall, and shown it to the owners? The owners of a local mall here, I think have darn near seen it all.

    Mona,
    I thought they were called fonts...but see they were also called stoups, and another good guess.

    I've never added up the cost of my perm...insurance covered it, and I know it was a nightmare of paperwork seeing that everyone was paid what was allowed. A year or 2 later I noticed that what gray I had b4 was gone...figure that one out. It's always nice to learn of others who have 'been there' and done that.

    Sue

  • petemich1
    Original Author
    17 years ago

    Hi.

    I don't think the dish held hair. Grandma had some of those and they did not look anything like this dish. Also, usually they have a hole in the top -- at least the ones that I have seen.

    Re Holy Water -- I thought of that, too. But, if it did, my mom would have told me. It sure does "feel like that" to me, though. I keep coming back to that. But, then again, the "rim" that would hold any droplets has that low part, and though that would be handy to pour droplets, one would not pour while the center held water.

    Keep meaning to take it to an antique mall but need to park my kids somewhere first.

    Did not add up my chemo dollars, just gave a guess to the amount. I do remember one chemo drug on one bill being over $4K, though. Yikes! SOOO glad for insurance!

    Well, my brain is still ticking and still trying to figure out that dish!

    Michele

  • petemich1
    Original Author
    17 years ago

    well, i'm off to visit my mom.

    maybe she will know more about the dish.

    did not get a chance to take the dish in to an antique mall, hope to do that soon.

    michele

  • petemich1
    Original Author
    17 years ago

    Talked with my mom about Grandma's dish.

    Mom does not know what it is and believes that Grandma purchased it. Mom has several other little pretty dishes, ones that she also thinks Grandma bought.

    My guess is that Grandma bought "the dish" at an estate sale. Grandma lived in Columbus, OH. I don't remember how far Germantown is from where she lived, but I do remember going to Germantown many times. Even saw the home the family first lived in. -- I think her parents, and if not, then her grandparents.

    Since the dish looks like it is from Germany, and since Grandma went to estate sales, my guess is that she bought it from the family that it came over with.

    Too bad in a way, I was hoping it came over with our family "once upon a time ..."

  • Chemocurl zn5b/6a Indiana
    17 years ago

    I was glad to see this post resurface. Thanks for the update.

    You still haven't talked to any antique mall owners yet, have you?

  • petemich1
    Original Author
    17 years ago

    Hi Chemocurl,

    No, haven't talked with any antique mall owners -- we just got back from "vacation" at my mom's. Still unpacking and grocery shopping, etc.

    Hope to hit the antique malls next week, and if not, then in Sept.

    Michele

  • blufish
    17 years ago

    No guess here but you girls are amazing and an inspiration. Good luck on your mystery investigation!

  • adoptedbyhounds
    17 years ago

    I took pictures of your dish with me to an auction, and asked the auctioneer if he had any ideas. He said no, he'd never seen anything like it. Dang! I hope someone will eventually be able to tell us what it is.

  • lindac
    17 years ago

    I told you what it is....it's a "stuff keeper"...it was meant to go on a dresser or a desk and keep hair pins or pen nibs or hair combs or extra buttons in. Didn't have a special use....I have a house full of little china or glass covered dishes....they hold paper clips, rubber bands, stamps, earrings, the wheel off a toy car, stray thumb tacks a commemorative coin, a penny found on the floor etc etc....
    It's just a dish!
    Linda C

  • petemich1
    Original Author
    17 years ago

    Hi Linda,

    I agree that it is probably "just a dish for doo-dads" ....

    EXCEPT, that it has wear marks. A doo-dad dish would most likely not have the wear that this one has -- or at least it would be worn more evenly, or differently.

    Thus, I believe it had some purpose, even if it was one made up by the one who "wore it down." So, I keep searching for an answer...

    Michele

  • nanjean68
    17 years ago

    Looks like a hair receiver. Someone else called it a hair tidy.

  • lindac
    17 years ago

    Nope not a hair receiver....they had a hole in the lid to stuff the hair into. They were a very definitive form.
    Linda C

    Here is a link that might be useful: hair receivers

  • Chemocurl zn5b/6a Indiana
    16 years ago

    Michele,

    Are you still wondering what Grandma's dish is?

    I asked the friendly folks who own the local antique mall if they would mind taking a look at Grandma's dish, and told them I would email them a link to the thread.

    I notice now that it is only possibly to view one photo. The Kodak gallery wants me to sign in (per your request) but it doesn't like my email password. Hmmmmmmm.

    Might you be able to get it set up for more of them to be viewed...along with the dimensions, and underneath side?

    I'm banking on them knowing what it might be. I have thought about talking to them for months, and finally got it done today while I was in town.

    Sue

  • jerrylintexas
    16 years ago

    You probably know what the dish is by now. If not, I believe it is a "doodad" dish for pins and needles, maybe a few buttons and variety of thread. Probably sat on a nearby table for quick darning, replacing button, turning collars,etc.

    Whatever it is, it sure is pretty.

  • jleek
    16 years ago

    Ok Ok where is OP?

    I kept thinking it was for hairpins. grabbing for hair pins-overtime- would make an inditation on the side of the dish. It is most unusal in design and a pleasure just to have. Could have been used for pins and needles but I really lean towards hairpins.

  • cateyanne
    16 years ago

    It's a personal hygiene piece. Used for mixing a paste of tooth powder and water to create old fashioned tooth paste. The lid was necessary to preserve the mixed paste until you used it up.
    Don't I sound like an expert? Just my two cents! Couldn't help horning in on the guessing. Good luck with it!

  • ntt_hou
    16 years ago

    Hum... I'm wondering... If Grandma had ashtrays and cigarette holders, could this one be to store tobacco for pipe use? With one hand holding the dish and the other holding a pipe perhaps?

  • tracyvine
    16 years ago

    I am throwing a guess out here. I think this is a vanity piece. Think back to the days of powdered wigs and faces. Wouldn' it make sense to have a handle to hold onto while applying with a puff, also the light kidney shape would allow for being close the head (less mess). I can just picture some chamber maid standing next to the seated master or mistress of the house applying powder with care. And of course the lid would be important to keep the damp out of the powder. Any thoughts? Maybe I just have a wild imagination. LOL! It is my understanding that many of the fine porcelain producers prior to the 1850's did not use marks on their products. Sometimes there is just a light impression of dots or insignia that is hard to detect unless looking at the piece with a little light.

    Tracy

  • bspofford
    16 years ago

    I keep checking this post hoping to see the answer to this mystery.

    It would seem that the shape of the dish has a certain function. I wonder if this has something to do with a religious rite. A baptismal dish maybe? I would be tempted to take it to the oldest Catholic priest I could find. Someone mentioned a stoup as a possibility.

    Barbara

  • pump_toad
    16 years ago

    I wish I could be more help but I doubt if you will find a purpose for your dish as in the Victorian era they liked lots of pretty dishes with no purpose. I agree with what some have said and also think it is a beautiful vanity piece for holding hairpins, jewelery, etc.In fact I am looking a very ornate little hand painted dish with a handle which really has no purpose. It's just pretty.

  • lindac
    16 years ago

    I asgee....as I said it's just a dish...likely German or Silesian or Bavarian, fine porcelain, beautifully decorated and just a "dish" a stuff holder, a knick-knack, a Victorian fancy. It's way too new to be a patch box holder, too old to be for tooth paste, certainly not cigarrettes, too new for powder for a wig and besides powder jars had a very definite form.
    It may have been used for hair pins, or paper clips or earrings or collar pins, but I don't believe that was it's intended purpose...it was just a covered dish. My dresser is full of similar covered dishes of the same period. all different and most had no definite use....just for "stuff".
    Linda C

  • sombreuil_mongrel
    16 years ago

    It looks like a dish for after-dinner mints. The colors of the glaze remind me of mints.
    Another possibility is that it was for saccharin tablets. (invented in 1879!) Saccharin bowls were usually a lot smaller, and came with small tongs or tweezers for picking.
    Casey