Hello All : I apologize for another long post. I will divide this post into a response to answers received from the previous post followed by several additional questions followed by a recalculation to correct the volume/cost of the gritty mix and present some weight values for the 10, 15, and 25 gallon container sizes discussed previously when filled with dry/wet gritty mix. Here goes: Response to previous answers: Thanks to everyone for their comments to my previous post. Thank you Ohiofem for correctly pointing out the previous calculation of dollar per gallon was incorrect because the stated volume of mix, 7 ft^3, prepared from a 50 lb bag of turface, a 50 lb bag of Gran-I-Grit, and a 3 cubic foot bag of fir bark was incorrect . My memory for the combined volume of 1 bag of each component was not correct. I also noticed in my previous post that while the result of 52.4 gallons resulting from the conversion of 7 cubic feet of actual mix was numerically correct I did inadvertently leave out a factor (1 liter/1000 ml) in the calculation shown in the previous post, which would not have given the stated result. Sorry for the confusion. As suggested by Ohiofem I would be able to make the gritty mix more cheaply if I could find a local source for the pine/fir bark. When I first started trying to put the gritty mix together I experimented with the Reptile bark (~0.93 cubic foot size bag) some are using to build the mix that I bought at a local pet store. However, it seemed that by the time I screened the material I was throwing large amounts out because the size was not correct. Therefore, since I have a number of trees I just bought the same type Al T uses but there is of course the issue of shipping and handling which increases the cost. So far I have not been able to get a local Lowes or other box store to bring in the bark so I can get it cheaper. I have also, unsuccessfully, tried to get local nurseries to bring in some of the bark with their regular orders. This is in part why I would like to get quantitative information about how well the gritty mix is expected to outperform the 5-1-1. I am assuming I can find the bark needed for the 5-1-1 locally and no screening is required. Therefore, if general plant performance in 5-1-1 is only slightly different than in the gritty mix then perhaps I should switch to the 5-1-1. However, if the gritty mix is far and away more superior and I will get such better growth then perhaps I need to find a way to deal with the gritty mix problems (weight, price, size of container to use, reduced number of plants to transfer into the mix, etc). The consensus seems to be that while the gritty mix is viewed as superior for figs and it seems plants in general, the 5-1-1 mix is being used more frequently for growing fig trees. The preference for the 5-1-1 mix seems to be primarily the lighter weight for the same volume of mix allowing easier movement for larger container volumes of potted trees, ease of finding the components for the 5-1-1, and cheaper cost of building the 5-1-1 mix (I have a lot of trees: the revised calculations below for gritty mix of ~ $100 for ~ 67 gallons of gritty mix would not be enough to pot all my fig trees let alone other plants I currently have). It has been noted in response to my previous post that figs grow like weeds in the 5-1-1 mix. Unfortunately, I have not had any replies from someone growing fig trees in the gritty mix. If I correctly read previous replies it seems one can get 2 growing years out of one batch of 5-1-1, which sounds good since I thought it must be made fresh every year. Doing a quick calculation for the 10, 15, and 25 gallon containers for the number of fig trees I have indicates that I would need to invest the following amounts at the current price of ~ $100 for ~ 67 gallons of gritty mix (see detailed calculations below) to prepare enough gritty mix to pot each fig tree into the container size specified below. 10 gallon pot: $150.55 15 gallon pot: $225.82 25 gallon pot: $376.37 The breakdown would be: 10 gallon pot: 1.63 bags of bark + 3.46 bags of turface + 8.01 bags of Gran-I-Grit 15 gallon pot: 2.44 bags of bark + 5.28 bags of turface + 12.24 bags of Gran-I-Grit 25 gallon pot: 4.07 bags of bark + 8.80 bags of turface + 20.40 bags of Gran-I-Grit Conclusion : I need to find cheaper ingredients, use smaller containers, graft multiple varieties onto 1 tree to reduce the number of overall trees needing mix, drive to oakhill gardens to buy numerous bags of bark which if I remember the price correctly will cut the price of the bark in half: costs as much to ship it as it does to buy it, or find a cheaper mix that can work as near as effectively as the gritty mix as possible. This is another reason why I would like to get quantitative information about how well the gritty mix is expected to outperform the 5-1-1. Several Additional Questions: Question: Am I correct in remembering that the polymer containing moisture control peat based soils are also not good because of the ‘pudding argument’ advanced when discussing adding perlite to peat based soils to make the soils drain excess water better? Or does the polymer absorb enough water so as not to allow a significant perched water table? Even if the polymer inhibits the perched water table is compaction of the peat based material severely limiting to roots and thus growth of the plant? Question: I may have missed this in previous posts from Al T or others but approximately what volume of a 50 lb bag of turface should I expect to lose from the screening process? I have asked in previous posts but have not received an answer. I would like to estimate how much higher the cost of the mix will be when considering the loss of turface due to screening. Question: Is there a way I can get the same benefits of the gritty mix and decrease the weight of the mix? Could I incorporate horticultural grade perlite, available locally, into the mix? If so what ratio of bark:turface:granite:perlite should I use? Question: Can the effective life time of the 5-1-1 be extended if after the second year (or even after the first year) the mix is sifted through insect screen to remove small particles resulting from breakdown of the peat/bark? Once removed by the insect screen, could the peat/bark fraction simply be replenished with fresh material by estimation of how much of each has been removed, which would come from the knowledge of the total volume of each that initially went into the preparation of the mix? I am assuming the peat fraction is the part that will be primarily decomposing into small particles and need replacement? I am thinking this may be able to be done if fresh 5-1-1 mix is made so that a plant is transferred into the fresh mix allowing the old mix to dry so it can be broken up and sifted. Question: (I didn’t receive a reply from the last post) I last did root pruning in spring 2011 and so I am planning to again root prune this year. I have noticed that for the last few years my trees tend to break dormancy around the end of February. Unfortunately, this means I should root prune (I think) toward mid February. However, mid February is still too cold outside to work comfortably for extended periods of time especially if I will be washing off peat based soil from roots to transfer into the gritty mix. In order to rinse any remaining peat based soil off of roots how long may I keep the roots in a bucket of water (instead of spraying with a hose as I did the last time I root pruned) without risk of killing the roots. I figure in this way I can gently raise and lower the roots in the bucket to release the last bits of soil after I remove the tree from the container or if I need to I can use my hand within the bucket of water to quickly remove the soil. I could set this up inside the garage to shield against cool/cold weather. Gritty Mix Recalculations: Below are revised calculations for the gritty mix. The next section of this post is a listing of the density: mass per volume of each of the components of the gritty mix. The density information for the Gran-I-Grit and Fir Bark were obtained by calling the companies, The North Carolina Granite Corporation for Gran-I-Grit and Shasta Forest Products for Fir Bark. The density information for Turface was obtained from technical specifications obtained from the company website: Profile Products, LLC. Density values: Gran-I-Grit (dry): 2250 lbs per cubic yard, Turface (dry): 36 +/- 2 lbs per cubic foot, and Fir Bark (dry): 54 lbs per 3 cubic feet Conversion of the densities to pounds per gallon: Gran-I-Grit: 2250 lbs/yd^3 * (1 yd)^3/(3 ft)^3 * (1 ft)^3/(12 inches)^3 * (1 inch)^3/(2.54 cm)^3 * (1 cm)^3/1 ml * 1000 ml/1 liter * 3.78 liter/1 gallon = (2250 x 1000 x 3.78) / (27 x 1728 x 16.387064) = 11.12412 lbs/gallon ~ 11.12 lbs/gallon Turface: 36 lbs/ft^3 * (1 ft)^3/(12 inches)^3 * (1 inch)^3/(2.54 cm)^3 * (1 cm)^3/1 ml * 1000 ml/1 liter * 3.78 liter/1 gallon = (36 x 1000 x 3.78) / (1728 x 16.387064) = 4.8056198 lbs/gallon ~ 4.80 lbs/gallon Fir Bark: 54 lbs/3 ft^3 * (1 ft)^3/(12 inches)^3 * (1 inch)^3/(2.54 cm)^3 * (1 cm)^3/1 ml * 1000 ml/1 liter * 3.78 liter/1 gallon = (54 x 1000 x 3.78) / (3 x 1728 x 16.387064) = 2.4028099 lbs/gallon ~ 2.40 lbs/gallon Calculation of the equivalent volume of Gran-I-Grit and Turface using the previously calculated densities: Gran-I-Grit: 50 lb bag Volume = 50 lbs / 11.12412 lbs/gallon = 4.4947376 gallons Converting gallons to cubic feet of Gran-I-Grit: 4.4947376 gallons * 3.78 liters / 1 gallon * 1000 ml / 1 liter * 1 cm^3 / 1 ml * (1 inch)^3 / (2.54 cm)^3 * (1 ft)^3 / (12 inches)^3 = (4.4947376 x 3.78 x 1000) / (16.387064 x 1728) = 0.600 ft^3 Turface: 50 lb bag Volume = 50 lbs / 4.8056198 lbs/gallon = 10.404485 gallons Converting gallons to cubic feet of Turface: 10.404485 gallons * 3.78 liters / 1 gallon * 1000 ml / 1 liter * 1 cm^3 / 1 ml * (1 inch)^3 / (2.54 cm)^3 * (1 ft)^3 / (12 inches)^3 = 10.404485 x 3.78 x 1000 / (16.387064 x 1728) = 1.3888889 ft^3 ~ 1.39 ft^3 Bark: 3 cubic feet bag as purchased Converting cubic feet of bark to gallons of bark: 3 ft^3 * (12 inches)^3 / (1 ft)^3 * (2.54 cm)^3 / (1 inch)^3 * 1 ml / 1cm^3 * 1 liter / 1000 ml * 1 gallon / 3.78 liters = (3 x 1728 x 16.387064) / (3.78 x 1000) = 22.473688 gallons ~ 22.47 gallons Summary: Turface 50 lbs 1.39 ft^3 10.40 gallons 4.80 lbs/gallon Gran-I-Grit 50 lbs 0.60 ft^3 4.49 gallons 11.12 lbs/gallon Bark 54 lbs 3 ft^3 22.47 gallons 2.40 lbs/gallon Therefore, to make the gritty mix using the entire 3 cubic foot bag of fir bark would require 5 bags of Gran-I-Grit and 2.158 bags of Turface and would result in: Gran-I-Grit: 5 x 0.60 ft^3 = 3 ft^3; 5 x 4.49 gallons ~ 22.45 gallons Turface: 2.158 x 1.39 ft^3 = 2.999 ft^3 ~ 3 ft^3; 2.158 x 10.40 gallons = 22.44 gallons Fir Bark: 3 ft^3; 22.47 gallons 3 ft^3 + 3 ft^3 + 3 ft^3 = 9 ft^3 or ~22.47 x 3 = 67.41 gallons of mix. The next section calculates the cost of the gritty mix when combining 1 bag of fir bark, 5 bags of Gran-I-Grit, and 2.158 bags of Turface. Gran-I-Grit: 5 bags x $8/bag = $40 Turface: 2.158 bags x $8/bag = $17.264 ~ $17.26 Fir Bark: 1 bag x $35 (includes shipping and handling) = $35 Total: $92.26 Price per gallon of gritty mix: $92.26/67.41 gallons = $1.368/gallon ~ $1.37/gallon For comparison: 64 quarts * 1 gallon / 4 quarts = 16 gallons of peat based miracle grow soil locally purchased for ~ $12. Price per gallon of miracle grow peat based soil: $12/16 gallons = $0.75 / gallon. The table below calculates the weight of the gritty mix when dry for each of the container sizes discussed in the original question posted. The table also calculates the weight of the mix when wet assuming I remember correctly that the weight increases by ~ 25% when wet. 10 Gallon Container: 3.33 gal Grit * 11.12 lbs/gal = 37.06 lbs + 3.33 gal turface * 4.80 lbs/gallon = 15.98 lbs + 3.33 gal fir bark * 2.40 lbs/gallon = 7.99 lbs = 61.03 total lbs dry. 15 Gallon Container: 5 gal Grit * 11.12 lbs/gal = 55.60 lbs + 5 gal turface * 4.80 lbs/gallon = 24.00 lbs + 5 gal fir bark * 2.40 lbs/gallon = 12.00 lbs = 91.60 total lbs dry. 25 Gallon Container: 8.33 gal Grit * 11.12 lbs/gal = 92.66 lbs + 8.33 gal turface * 4.80 lbs/gallon = 39.98 lbs + 8.33 gal fir bark * 2.40 lbs/gallon = 19.99 lbs = 152.63 total lbs dry. An increase of weight of 25% when wet gives: 10 gallon: 61.03 + 0.25(61.03) = 76.28 lbs ~ 76 lbs 15 gallon: 91.60 + 0.25(91.60) = 114.50 lbs ~ 115 lbs 25 gallon: 152.63 + 0.25(152.63) = 190.78 lbs ~ 191 lbs The table below indicates the price equivalent of using the prepared gritty mix as described (~67.41 gallons) compared to the price equivalent of using locally purchased miracle grow. Example calculation for: $ Equivalent of Gritty Mix Used per Pot (10 gallon pot): 10 gallon/67.41 gallons * $92.26 = $13.69 $ Equivalent of Miracle Grow (mir grow) Peat Based Mix (10 gallon pot): 10 gallon/16 gallons * $12 = $7.50 The first column below is the container size, the second column is the gritty mix price, the third column is the miracle grow price, the fourth column is the difference in price between the gritty mix used and the miracle grow used, and the fifth column is the percentage of gritty mix used to fill each container. 10 gallon: $13.69 $7.50 $6.19 (10/67.41)* 100 = 14.83% 15 gallon: $20.53 $11.25 $9.28 (15/67.41)* 100 = 22.25% 25 gallon: $34.21 $18.75 $15.46 (25/67.41)* 100 = 37.08% Therefore, for a 10 gallon, 15 gallon, and 25 gallon container: 67.41 gallons * 1 pot / 10 gallons = 6.741 ~ 6.5 pots per gritty mixture as made above. 67.41 gallons * 1 pot / 15 gallons = 4.494 ~ 4.5 pots per gritty mixture as made above. 67.41 gallons * 1 pot / 25 gallons = 2.6964 ~ 2.5 pots per gritty mixture as made above. Thanks everyone for your help! Brian

"... Then I tried some when the hulls were yellow and almost felt like the bean should have been pealed." That has been my observation also, for most of the runner beans I've tried as shellies. That, and the "off" flavor of many of them, had me questioning whether runner bean seeds were really suited for use as shellies. Now I suspect that those issues can largely be overcome, whether by choice of variety, level of maturity at harvest, or means of preparation. This is, IMO, mostly uncharted territory, so there is still a lot of research & experimentation yet to be done. The beans are so large & visually appealing, it would be wonderful if their flavor could be made to match their appearance. My hope is that canning will prove to soften the skins of the mature beans. I've never been very fond of canning vegetables, since I prefer the fresh flavor of frozen produce... but in the case of runner bean shellies, canning might improve their palatability. Who knows, the pressure cooking itself might yield favorable results. I'm looking forward to experimenting, provided that I have enough beans next year to do so.

The first time I had a hot buttered rum was at a lady's home in Brown County, Indiana. Brown County is hilly and wooded (at least back then) and very beautiful on a snowy winter day. This lady's house was amazing. She had traveled the world, literally, and had decorated her home with the beautiful things she found on her trips. We went to visit and she made us this drink on a cold night in winter with snow outside and a big fire in the fireplace. While we sipped, she told of stories of her travels. It was a wonderful and memorable night. (This would also be good for a sore throat, I would think!) HOT BUTTERED RUM (Rachael Ray) 2/3 cup packed dark brown sugar 1/2 cup (1 stick) unsalted butter, room temperature 1/4 cup honey 1/2 teaspoon ground cinnamon 1/4 teaspoon ground nutmeg 1/8 teaspoon ground cloves Pinch salt 3/4 cup spiced rum 2 cups boiling water 4 sticks cinnamon, for garnish Using an electric mixer, beat the brown sugar, butter, honey, cinnamon, nutmeg, cloves, and salt in a medium bowl until blended and smooth. Transfer the mixture to a 4-cup (or larger) measuring cup. Add the rum and then 2 cups of boiling water. Stir until the butter mixture dissolves. Divide the buttered rum among 4 mugs. Garnish with the cinnamon sticks and serve.

I will try to condense this because I could pontificate for hours on this! My love for gardening came from my father. He was the ultimate green thumb-he didn't have formal training that i know of, but he was a street tree gardener for two of the communities we grew up in, and always had a vegetable garden as a way to supplement our large family's food budget.(Six kids) He was a school music teacher and when summer vacation began he was always found out back tending the garden for pretty much the whole summer. Of all six children I seemed to be the most interested in what he did-and my first memory of my own interest was when he gladly allowed me to plant marigolds around the border of his garden to keep pests away(this was a fairly large plot and now I know why he jumped at my offer to help him!)I was in elementary school at the time. Also eating a tomato whole and sprinkled with salt always brings dad's tomatoes to mind. And asparagus and homemade pickles.... That was my first taste of working in a garden. It wasn't until I was a first-time homeowner that I knew I was going to be a gardener but I chose to go the route of flowers instead of vegetables. The saddest thing, though was that the year before I moved into my new home, my dad developed Alzheimer's disease and everything I needed to ask him for gardening advice about trees and organic gardening was completely gone-he was just a shell of my father-quite sad. Not a day goes by when I'm in my yard and garden that I don't think of Dad and the gift he gave me. I just wanted to share it with him. He passed away two months ago. Just an interesting note; Our family surname has it's origin from Poland and it means 'gardener of an estate' I find that kind of neat. Maybe it's in our bloodline to be gardeners! * Posted by: pkock Zone 6 (My Page) on Tue, May 28, 02 at 2:44 So glad to find this thread - hope it lasts, because it's fun! Honestly, I am not sure what got me hooked. I think it's my tendency to love "scientific" stuff - I never pursued it professionally, but I'll make anything into a science experiment. I got through two pregnancies with that attitude. ;-) My grandma was the gardener in our family. She lived with us, and each year we had to have a veggie garden. My dad wasn't into yard work much, but was "forced" into the labor required, turning over the clay soil with a spade and protesting the entire time. Always basic stuff - tomatoes, peppers, pole beans, but they sure tasted good. We had strawberries for a couple of years, and there was a big apple tree in our yard that grew "cooking" apples. Grandma made lots of pies and applesauce. Then there was Girl Scouts - one year we had a hike with a knowledgeable person who pointed out all the fantastic wild plants along the trail. I absorbed it all like a sponge. This is rare, this is edible, this is a cure for poison ivy, etc. I still remember most of it, teach my daughter, and soon will teach her scout troop too. I was voted "Miss Outdoorswoman" in high school. Isn't that neat? Some things never change. :) --Pam * Posted by: Lucy2 Z7Atlanta (My Page) on Wed, May 29, 02 at 8:23 I love reading these. I remember going to visit my grandparents in Texas every summer. We lived in New Hampshire and would fly down and my grandparents would meet us at the airport. The first thing we would do when we got to Grandma's house was run to her garden. Every year she planted a watermelon JUST FOR US! Oh, how special that was. We would walk into the garden and she would "double check that it was ripe and time to pick it and she would let us watch as she "ever so gently" plucked the watermelon from the garden and we would sit on her front porch all afternoon eating the best watermelon we had ever tasted and spitting seeds as far as we could. Sadly, my Aunt burst my childhood memory bubble (when I was in my 40's but it still hurt!) by telling me that my Grandparents would go to the grocery store the night before we flew in, buy a watermelon and lay it in the garden "just for us", pretending they planted it and grew it all along...I guess I'm in denial because I still tell my children about those fond memories! * Posted by: becki3 z5 IN (My Page) on Tue, Jul 23, 02 at 20:34 Can I still step in here? This is such a wonderful thread, brought back some great memories. But now I'm sitting here with tears in my eyes and a big lump in my throat. One of my first garden memories is of my next-door neighbor when I was very small. She had a gigantic (to me) gooseberry bush that she would make pies for us from, if I would pick the berries. And she also had a thick grape vine that she would sit down with me in the middle of the yard and eat grapes from right off the vine. We always sat on the other side of it so my mom couldn't see us from the window. I don't think she would have minded, but my neighbor made it fun, thinking we were being secretive. She also had about a million plants in her house that she would show me all the time. Thinking back on it now, I realize they were mostly African violets. She was in her late 80's, early 90's, and I thought she was the best neighbor a girl could ever have. (still do) :) Then there was my grandpa. When he was a teen in the service, he had come home to visit his mom just before being shipped overseas. He took ONE little segment from her Christmas cactus, which had been a wedding present 25 years before that, and put it in his wallet. He then drove all the way across the country (took a few days), all the while sitting on this wallet. Just before being shipped out, he stuck this one little smashed, dried up piece of Christmas cactus and stuck it in a little pot of dirt from the ground outside his barracks. I'm not sure what happened to it (where it was, who took care of it) while he was in the war. But I do know that when he died in 1994, that Christmas cactus was not only alive, but very, very, VERY big. He had built a planter for it on wheels so he could move it outside in the summer and back inside for the winter. He also had a ramp leading up to his patio door, which he had to remove to get it through. This "planter" was 5 feet long, 3 feet wide, and 4 feet deep. Filled all the way with soil and thick, long roots. And the plant filled every inch of the top of the soil and hung down to the floor all around. He had to give it a "haircut" every time he moved it in or out so he wouldn't run over it with the wheels. I now have a pretty good size pot of this same plant in my husband's office, where it sits in front of a huge window all year long and blooms from Oct to around May every year. I ask about or stop by to check on this plant about once a week. I'm always terrified I might lose this plant, I feel like somehow I would be losing my grandpa all over again. Or that he might be disappointed in me for letting his precious plant die after having survived 4 generations in our family. But my all-time favorite childhood memories (of any kind) come from my Aunt Julia and Uncle Bill. They had a big farm in Missouri with a couple horses, a coop full of chickens, and about 300 head of dairy and beef cows at any given time. Along with the usual couple of dogs and a barn full of cats. And I remember one time my Aunt sent me out with the horse to get a few apples from the big tree out in the east pasture to make a pie for dinner. She told me to get a sack out of the barn to carry them in. Well, being about 8 or 9 at the time, I had no idea how many apples it took to make a pie. So I took 2 big gunny sacks, and me and Ginger (the horse) set out to find that big tree. Ginger was so patient with me as I stood on her back on the blanket that I rode with (never used a saddle) to pick all the apples that I could reach. I tied these two gunny sacks across her back and filled them up full. (poor horse!) When I got back, I didn't think my Aunt and Uncle would ever stop laughing. Instead of a few apples for a pie, I had just picked enough apples for an entire week of non-stop canning, freezing, and baking everything we could think of that contained apples. Then there were the times that Aunt Julia and I would pack a picnic basket to take out to my Uncle Bill when he was working the fields. We would sit under a big tree and just watch him disking the field, or baling the hay until he noticed us in the distance. Then he would come get me and let me drive the big tractors for a while before we ate. But one of my most vivid and comforting memories is of me and Aunt Julia sitting on the porch swing snapping beans or shelling peas. I can't remember who picked those beans and peas, or what she did with them afterwards. But just sitting there snapping and shelling, not even having to speak, but feeling like the most loved person in the world. I just started to garden seriously for myself last year, and this year I had to have those green beans and peas. And I think of my Aunt Julia and Uncle Bill every time I go out to the garden. I almost started crying when my daughter (5yo) asked me the first time if she could help me shell the peas. She had so much fun with them I didn't even mind the ones that kept flying across the kitchen to land under the cabinets or off in a corner with the dust bunnies. And I can just see my Aunt and Uncle smiling now (more like giggling probably). Right now I think I need to call them (they live in Arizona now) and tell them how much I love and miss them, and maybe thank you for teaching me about all the things I love the most. Then I think I will sit down and start crocheting an afghan for Aunt Julia (she taught me how to do that when I was 6). Luckily I learned to crochet a lot better than I learned how to milk a cow (sorry Uncle Bill)! Thanks for letting me take this stroll! Becki :) * Posted by: Mirri 5 (Finland) (My Page) on Fri, Jul 26, 02 at 3:06 My first attempt to garden vegetables was when I was 9. I loved peas, so I wanted to grow them. My father formed me a lot saying it would be too hard for me, turning the thick soil. Then I sow the peas and watered them for about 2 weeks. Then my first dog - who died of old age a few years back at 13- had a friend over. They were just puppies back then, running and playing. My daddy warned me, but I wanted to let them play on our rather tiny lot. They run over my pea-lot several times, breaking all those tender 15cm pea shoots. Oh, how I cried. Then I took little sticks and tied the shoots back up. Most of them recovered. Then the dogs, Roope and Olga, run the pea shoots down again after a week or so. And I gave up. I quit gardening for about 10 years. I only had a few cacti which I killed and bought new ones. But now I am a horticulturist. Working, ironically, in a greenhouse that produces pea shoots! I think that the wonder of growing, seeing the shoots come up from earth was a positive thing in the end. Even though I didn`t get to harvest the peas. This year I have a tiny pea-lot again, the first time after I was 9. I have harvested some, but my dog keeps steeling the pods before I find them. When I was 17 I found gardening again, in the form of houseplants. I was living in a tiny oneroom flat without balcony. The houseplant hobby lead me into studying horticulture. Now I have a son and 2 dogs. If Pyry wants to be a little gardener, I will build a fence around his lot. * Posted by: prairie_rose southalta (My Page) on Tue, Aug 20, 02 at 23:56 my earliest memories. being sat in the potato patch with a coffee can with some kerosene in the bottom and picking potato bugs and putting them in the can. i think that was the way my mom and grandma kept us out of their hair on wash day ( the old wringer washer, rinse tub, mangler days.) i remember the smell of the compost heap, and i never thought it was nasty. my grandpa and i spent lots of time there, spreading things out, turning it over occasionally. i think i must have got compost in my veins, replaced all the blood, cause i still don't find the compost heap all that nasty. (compost tea, well that is a different story. lol) i remember i hated bringing kids to our house in the fall cause you could smell the crocks of sauerkraut brewing. we lived on the edge of town, and i swear my mom was the only one who canned. but i couldn't wait for it to be ready and eating the stuff till i was sure i would burst. i remember we were the "poor kids" but we ate better than any of my friends, and were healthier than most of my friends. the garden was a way of life, and everyone was expected to pitch in. and when harvest happened, everyone was expected to come home to can. my mom would pick the weekend and as young adults, we all showed up. 5 women in a kitchen!!!!! lots of hard work, but lots of laughs, too. and when it was over we all got our share to take home. now, i am a single mom with two kids, and all those lessons are paying huge dividends. my two are the "poor kids" but they eat better than most of their friends and are healthier than most, too. what i save at the supermarket because of the garden pays the morgage and the extras for the kids. and this year, my daughter is taking an active part in the canning. i just wish my grandma, mom and sisters were here, too. * Posted by: lynne_s z5ny (My Page) on Mon, Sep 9, 02 at 22:23 I remember planting potatoes on my grandfather's farm in the early spring when i was about 4 years old. We weren't just planting a little garden patch...I swear this field must have been at least an acre. I remember the fun we had, laughing and running around in the dirt...getting dirty, but it was ok..we were doing something productive. I remember Grampa explaining the different types...we even planted purple potatoes from Russia. Later in our visit to his farm my brothers and sisters and I helped plant the seeds that would become carrots, corn and beans. I remember trudging through the brambles in search of the elusive blueberry bushes...after a morning of picking berries, we'd stop and have lunch...Grampa would take a fishing line and hook out of his pocket and catch small trout from a nearby stream and we'd roast them on a stick over a fire...just like a hot dog. He amazed me...the man could survive in the wilderness with nothing, and probably live better than most of us do today. lol The outdoors was his church; where he prayed, pondered and planned his life. My grandfather, retired by this time still loved gardening and sold his veggies every summer from his down-sized farm. We spent the entire spring and summer there. Everything we ate and drank came from that farm. I still remember how wonderful everything tasted...the taste of fresh food was foreign to me then. I went back to Grampa's farm many times until he passed...there, I worked hard, enjoyed the freedom of being in the outdoors and learned how important it was to treat our planet with respect, for it is what feeds us. It seems I forgot a lot of his wisdom until quite recently. Now that I'm a Mom of 5 boys, with many mouths to feed as well as many personalities and value systems to help develop, the things he taught me are returning. My husband and I have purchased a home out in the country trying to create an environment for our boys that my Grampa created for us...one of fresh air, sun, fun and respect for all things living...an I'm proud to say, we are well on our way! * Posted by: KCtomato1 z5/6 KC, Mo (My Page) on Sat, Sep 14, 02 at 0:36 My grandfathers both got me started. My first memory is of dark purple tulips and tulips that were taller than I. I recall what a joy it was grandpa let me pick one. Somewhere in the family, someone has a picture of it. I was 2-3. Both gardened but it was my paternal grandfather that let me try everything. He introduced me to raw veggies. I still prefer them over cooked. He would also let me in the berry patch - which is what really got me growing. He made a deal with me - if I picked 2 I could eat one. He'd go in and I would pick 'em clean of course taking the best for myself. We both walked away thinking we got the better deal. My maternal Grandfather taught me more on the "how's" rather than the "whats". He grew to sell and was not keen on kids picking things he could potentially sell. When I was small I would go out to the garden where he was working just to be with him and I'd watch. I would have worked but he wouldn?t let me. He thought I was nuts for wanting to work. He told me there were snakes in the berry patch in an "effort" to keep me out. Most the time he ran me off I was just looking for the snake. Him teaching me things came at a much older age. Im grateful for the time I did spend with them and the gift they passed on. Keith * Posted by: bizmhamama CA z10 (My Page) on Tue, Oct 8, 02 at 15:09 This answers your interest in childhood memories in a roundabout way. My parents and I immigrated to the United States when I was four years old and I never really knew my expanded family. My mother, who grew up on a sugar plantation, cared absolutely nothing for getting her hands dirty. Our back yard was concrete! Her only gardening interest was roses. I became interested in indoor plants as a teenager and then became obsessed with succulents once I moved out of the house & had a patch of dirt of my own. I even wondered what it would take to go back to school for a landscaping degree, and daydreamed about owning a nursery. My maternal grandmother came to America only a few years ago. I was fairly shocked to learn that she loves gardening! She grows guava trees from seed. In her 80s, she still derives incredible enjoyment from simply watching living things grow. I realize now my passion for gardening would have been sparked much earlier in life if geography (& politics!) hadn't intervened.