Hi Wendy, It's easy, and I can give you rules of thumb, but I don't really know what you have access to because you can buy wholesale and I can't. FYI: Mitsch daffodils in Canby, OR is in your neck of the woods and sells their seedlings at a discounted price. The yellow flowers you mentioned have been superceded, but since they are so cheap, do you really want to buy something more expensive? If so, look for 'Camelot'. It should be 20c a bulb more expensive, but that is in my retail catalog. It is yellow, blooms late mid-season (say April 20-25 in Indianapolis.) If you can't find it easily, send me to the website where you want to buy bulbs and I'll pick one out. Naturally, if you were to spend $50.00 on a bulb the following rules of thumb would no longer be true, but from what you have available to you at a wholesale price the following are are good rules of thumb: Early blooming flowers have yellow petals and later have white petals. (Mt Hood, Ice Follies are exceptions beibg early whites and Camelot being a fairly late yellow) Pink coronas are generally late, too. Sometimes the pink coloration doesn't go the entire length of the corona giving a blah look. Yellow petals with pink coronas almost always have short stems and blah colors. Flowers said to have orange petals are generally weak garden plants and don't perennialize well (but they are gorgeous the first year!!!) Flower names with the word "little" or "mini" in them are not cut flowers. Bloom times by division: Early - divs are 1, 6 Mid season - are 2, 4, Late season are - 3, 5, 7, 9 Div 10 - there are none that are good cut flowers Div 11 is the split of butterflies and their pedigree could be div 1, 2 or 3, so they can be early , mid, or late. Best Bets for later cut flowers that are also good garden flowers and will perennialize if you give them enough room: Stratosphere, Passionale, Romance, N. jonquilla or Kokopelli, Gay Kybo, Chromacolor, Cool Flame, Cum Laude, Yellow Cheerfulness, Sir Winston Churchill, Tamar Fire, Tahiti, Manon Lescaut (but it might be early), Merlin, Misty Glen, Precocious (very good). These should all be available cheaply. (I have a list of everything that's grown in Holland for export, but I don't know if your supplier is necessarily offering these). So, maybe you can learn a little about daffodils and with this information you can look at any daffodil catalog and tell a good one from a not so good one. However I am the first to agree that every bulb catalog does NOT have the information you may need. www.daffodilusa.org has a great search engine called "daffseek". You can plug in any daffodil name and find out how old it is, when it blooms (the seasons are coded by number; 1= very early, say March 15 -- through 6= which is very late May 1 here) and how long the stem is. You can also see other pictures. Let me give you the big picture in another incredibly long post so you can see how the daffodil division impacts the use as a cut flower. Daffodils, like any flower, are divided into groups depending on the shape of the flower. Most people are very familiar with Tulip groups -- Darwin Hybrid and Greigii, for instance, but the daffodil groups are not as well known primaritly because they are not divided in the catalogs. Tulips have to be divided because there are 2 different uses for Tulips -- potted plants would be the Triumph Tulips and Darwin Hybrids are the ones we'd want for garden flowers.(about 90% of the tulips grown in Holland are for potted plants or grown in greenhouses for out of season cutflowers. I believe it is safe to say that Dutch Bulb Growers couldn't care less about garden tulips, or garden lilies, either, since they are all grown for the forced cut flower market and potted plants.) Daffodil groups are called divisions, and it is the species flower that determines what the flower looks like and what division it falls under. Div 1-4 are all from large daffodils which originally grow or grew in the wild. MANY generations have passed to get what we now have, though, but they all look like single headed daffodils and you'd recognise them right off the bat. Any of the daffodils in those divisions make good cut flowers, but not if they were bred in 1948, or ever 1968, and not if the petals are all jabberwockied and the flower is asymmetrical. Div 4 is doubles, and these can be a problem when you look at them close up. They often are green on the back and the outerlayer of petals is deformed. IN other words, you can't sell them. ASK before you buy on the doubles!!!! The best looking one for most all climates is 'Rose Garden', a white double with bright pink petaloids, about $5.00 a bulb, but some of the Dutch bulbs are ok, too. Div 3 -- the shortcups -- special because it is a cross between a late blooming div 9 and a longer cup daffodil. The beauty of all division 3s is that you can cut them as SOON as the bud shows color and time their opening. THIS IS HUGE for a daffodil flower grower because of the darn spring weather which can flatten your crop, hail can destroy the flowers, wind will tear them apart, and frosts and freezes are normal...you get the idea. If you keep them cool, as in a basement, not a fridge, and dark and in water up to their necks, they will open slowly and surely. If you put them in the floral fridge, you'll get the same thing, only slower. Div 3s are wonderful. Div 5 - all have short stems and small flowers, possibly 2 to a stem that are about 12". Div 5 is hard to grow because members need perfect drainage and no extra water in the summer. The easiest grower in the division is also one of the ugliest: Thalia. Thalia (white)is almost always paired with muscari in the Dutch bulb catalogs, so I assume they must bloom together. Stint (pale yellow, also looks good with muscari) and Petrel (white) are the good ones if you find them. Div 6 - Rapture (golden yellow) is the best, bar none. Bred in Canby, Oregon, as a matter of fact! It *does* have a long enough stem, but be sure to look at the shape of the flower and the flyaway petals before ordering...do you like it? After having manned a LOT of daffodil shows and answered questions from the public, I can tell you these flowers are not too popular. The rest of div 6 bulbs are either hopelessly virused in Holland or too short to be of use to you. Div 7 -- The fragrant jonquils. Here's a tip: Buy a hundred Narcissus jonquilla or Kokopelli. These are very small flowers on very long stems and are fragrant as all get out. They bloom late for daffodils, Apr 25-May 8 in Indianapolis. Put ONE or TWO in a bunch and see if you don't sell out. They dry in silica sand if you are so inclined for dried whatevers. Forget putting them in oasis, it doesn't work. The stems are very thin and they stand straight up all season. The can take wet in the summer, but they LOVE HEAT in the summer. Oregon heat is fine, Canadian Zone 2 probably isn't. 'Hillstar' has 14 inch stems, but only 10 inch stems when you'd want to cut it. I don't know of any other jonquils besides 'Stratosphere' that I an recomend wholeheartedly and I know are available. Div 8 -- Falconet (yellow / Red-orange) and Geranium (cream and pretty orange) are the ones I like best from the catalog I have. Aspasia is 50 years old. Div 9. Another flower you can pick in the bud showing color stage which will oopen in the cool dark. Red rim will burn in the sun, so keep the flowers shaded whther they are on the stem or cut. Any of these are pretty -- they all have the same "look" the old pheasant eye. 'Actaea' is the largest flower and the longest stem -- by far -- and also earliest to bloom, in mid-deason. Later ones are Milan, Felindre, Angel EYes, but Felindre is the only one with a decent stem. Div 11 is interesting. Look for color is my advice. There are an swfully lot of cream colord ones on the market. Cum Laude is a favorite, but Mitsch Daffodils in Canby, Oregon specializes in White petaled, pink corona splits. They sell their seedling bulbs for $1.60 each delivered. Sometimes the seedlings are thrown in the bin because they look too much like another one! They are on the internet with a website if you care to search. One more thing: A new study was done on the west coast and they found that daffodils need DEEP water. Warm, almost hot first and let it cool to room temperature. Deep - Up to the point where the spathe meets the stem. After the warm water cools, change the water and put them in a cool dark place. I can tell you from personal experience, they are right on the money.

Hey all, I've been on for about a month (I'm in Noblesville, north of Indy) and really have been enjoying GW's forums, so many folks from our area to share experiences and info with. Are there other far-northside veggie, herb and fruit growing enthusiasts on this side of town? other mainly organic gardeners? Drsuz, did you ever get your raspberries this spring? I've had Fallgold (a really yum yellow raspberry) and an unknown everbearing red donated from folks at church, for a few years now - this spring they did great, but then the Japanese beetles really made a mess of them. I'm expanding my berry collections to currants and gooseberries this coming spring, so if anyone's got experience with either, *please* email me, on varieties to look for, good sources (I'm considering Indiana Berry, they look inexpensive), and best growing conditions. And, jeppers, did you find out about the Marsh policies for collecting spent produce? I've had pretty good success asking for corn husks from some of my local stores here, sometimes it takes getting to know the guys in the back and just asking, but I know at times corporate rules have to be abided by. Anyone else a "certified whacko" for composting? (the Soil Forum is one of my favorites). Hope everyone's still got things growing despite the October-in-August temperatures - I just planted for a fall crop of salad veggies, snow peas, bush beans and one more try at yellow squash, now that the borer moth has stopped flitting around. Anyone else trying for one last round before frost hits? the warmth of sunny days and the smell of rain-washed growing things seems to run away from us faster than we want it to. Praying for more summer and a mild fall, to balance out this chilly stuff! Sherry

"The trench would be about 7 feet deep and 1 foot wide, thus, the average depth of the coil would be about 5 feet." This tells me that they would install a vertical Slinky, probably with a backhoe. A chain trencher, 'Witch Ditch' would probably be narrower than 1 foot wide and would be a faster install, unless soil conditions do not permit this technique. Avg. depth of 5 feet could mean that the loops are 4 feet in diameter meaning the top of the loop may be only 3 feet below the surface. If this is so, then this may not ideal. Top of the loop should be at least 4 feet deep (minimum) or deeper. Digging should be contracted to someone with the right equipment (chain trencher, 'Witch Ditch'). Even then this may be less than ideal in that it's harder to flush a vertical slinky (standing up) than a horizontal slinky (laying flat) in that any trapped air will reside at the tops of these vertical loops. This trapped air could be a serious impediment to liquid flow as it may form an air lock thus shortening or short-circuiting the entire loop. Bottom line in plain English, it will work - if properly designed, installed, purged and FLUSHED! SR

***updated to include photo*** I was searching for a cast iron griddle/grill for the center of my GE cafe CGS990SET9SS and came across this thread. found part number WB31X20584 in here. was a little concerned whether or not it would actually be cast iron because a number of posts from years ago in this thread talked about confusion with GE and getting teflon coated aluminum using that part number. did a search with the part number and found it on partsdr.com a recent review of the part on partsdr.com stated that it was cast iron so i bought it. $111.51 plus $9.99 shipping got it to me in 3 days. opened it up and sure enough, its cast iron. like the original poster described, it doesnt fit perfectly on this range. wish i had paid more attention as maybe the JXGRILL1 would have worked better but i think the 20584 will work. thanks, Obama!