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stir_fryi

Don't you feel any pressure to Buy American??

stir_fryi SE Mich
15 years ago

I read many, many posts about people buying Bosch or Miele dishwashers or non-American ranges.

I am in Metro Detroit and our area is truly suffering economically right now -- there is a big push to buy American cars and I just wonder if that factors into your decision to when you spend money on appliances.

I bought all KitchenAid products because that was the "level" I could afford at the time -- it was a plus for me because Whirlpool is headquartered in Michigan.

Comments (52)

  • dixiedarlin10
    15 years ago

    homepro, Whirlpool manufactures the majority of their products in the midwestern states and the south; Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, Iowa, Arkansas, Tenneesee, Oklahoma & Missisippi. They do build some refrigerators and washers in Mexico and others in Germany.

  • eandhl
    15 years ago

    I admit I haven't always bought American though my DCS range was made in the US.
    But I spent a lot of time trying to buy dog toys "not made in China" for friends and family with pets at Christmas.

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  • chipshot
    15 years ago

    No pressure at all. Most of the products we selected were US-made and were selected because they were good AND a good value. I too am in SE Michigan and am a displaced (ex-Ford) auto worker. While Whirlpool (like most companies) manufactures in a variety of locations, much of their design and management is in Michigan, making them the "home team" for me and my family.

  • Fori
    15 years ago

    I just bought a Ford (somewhat ironically because my old one rusted out due to living in Dearborn while working for Ford--if not for road salt it would have gone until the refineries stopped producing). Does that count?

  • jakkom
    15 years ago

    I buy what I can afford as the best value for my $. More important to me is spending money in my own community, at local businesses that are also struggling in this economy. Can't do it in every instance, but we try to do it as often as possible.

    Hate our Buick Regal, possibly the worst car we've owned in 35 years. Would willingly buy a Ford again, although frankly, our Korean compact SUV was a much better buy than anything Detroit OR Tokyo offered.

  • golddust
    15 years ago

    I'm trying to buy American but lately I've been thinking of taking a world tour to visit all of our old jobs!

  • steve_o
    15 years ago

    It's kind of hard to know what's "American" anymore. Is it the Ford Fusion manufactured in Mexico? Or the Chrysler minivan built in Canada? The Honda built in Ohio? The Bosch dishwasher built, as someone noted above, in North Carolina? The LG refrigerator built in Mexico? The Whirlpool Duet built in Germany?

    Thing is, if U.S.-headquartered companies want to take advantage of lower-cost labor markets for their products and want to sell their products outside the U.S., we cannot close our markets or labor to companies headquartered elsewhere. Makes "buying American" a bit of a minefield, though.

    For what it's worth, aside from my ASKO dishwasher, all my "American-brand" appliances happened to be built in the U.S. But that's more coincidence than design.

  • chipshot
    15 years ago

    Yup, and it gets even more complicated when you consider where the parts used to assemble those products come from, and in turn from where the components used in those parts are sourced, etc. To be thorough, one needs to look at where all the labor hour are incurred and where the material originates. Labels required by the government aren't necessarily reliable, as they often tell the story in a way dictated by some senator or representative for political purposes.

  • chefnewbie
    15 years ago

    Pressure to buy American? No. I feel pressure to get the best value for the cash I need to spend. We are part of a global economy. Many "foreign" companies manufacture their products here. Many United States companies outsource their production. Buying an American brand does not necesarily mean putting money into the pockets of Americans or saving American jobs. My appliance dealers are here in the states. They have employees. Whatever I buy, wherever it was made, I am helping our economy.
    I did buy many products that I think were made in the US. The companies certainly employ people in the US - Icon, Monogram, Kitchen Aid, Jacuzzi, Kennmore, Brookhaven and Kraft Maid cabinetry ...
    I also bought many products that were not made in the US - bathroom vanities, fireplace mantel and range hood made in (gasp!) China. But, I bought these from American dealers who made a profit on them - so I supported the American economy.
    For what it's worth, that's my take on the whole buy American thing.

  • kaffine
    15 years ago

    I stopped worrying about if something was made in the USA after being a Dodge mechanic and realizing the trucks that were assembled in Mexico had a better fit and finish than the ones built in the USA. I always thought the Made in the USA sticker was supposed to mean it was a quality product unfortunately the USA can and does make stuff that is junk like everywhere else. Where it is built is not a guarantee of quality. I buy appliances based on reviews and what I think of the fit and finish. Price of course has some barring on what I buy but I don't have a problem paying extra for quality.

  • User
    15 years ago

    My Dacor (an American company) cooktop, oven and MW are not made in the US, and I have no idea where my KitchenAid fridge or Kenmore DW are made, but I'm pretty confident they are not made in the US.

    I think you'll find that products made by "American" companies aren't made in America anymore. The best that can be said is that they are assembled here with imported parts. Products made by foreign companies, especially cars, are made in America, or at least assembled here. The lesson is, get what you want.

    Frighteningly, even our food isn't made here any more. Most of our medicines are made from ingredients imported from India or China. Many prepared food, especially snack foods, etc, are frequently produced from ingredients imported from China and India. It's very scary.

    I haven't bought an American car in more than 20 years, and every American car I've had to rent was junk, so I have no desire to ever own an American car again.

  • lovinlife06
    15 years ago

    This forum exist in part to help us buy the product that best suits our needs and wants and to choose the company that offers what we want for the best price. American companies surely can't always compete in terms of price but the lack of quality in many industries is an area where great improvement is needed. I often pay a little more to shop locally and am flexible in my wants. But quality is where I draw the line on compromise. I have spent many hours scouring this forum before making big purchases. I think I speak for many here in saying we want a quality product that will last.If the best choice was made in America by an American owned company then I sure would be extra pleased when making my purchase.
    I think the pressure should be on the American company to deliver quality at a fair price not on the consumer to settle for less.

  • stir_fryi SE Mich
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    "I think I speak for many here in saying we want a quality product that will last.If the best choice was made in America by an American owned company then I sure would be extra pleased when making my purchase."

    Yes, but don't you think that some people may buy a German dishwasher for the fashion statement they think it makes?? I still remember years ago visiting a friends home that I only get to once or twice a year -- she had Miele dishwasher and I had never even heard of it. I admit to being impressed.

  • guadalupe
    15 years ago

    Bosch and other Europeans have bought American Companies and employee Americans. It is now a world economy, when the NY stock market failed it effected the world not just NY. It is going to take the world to bring back economic health.

  • ellene613
    15 years ago

    Yes, we try to buy American-made products, and if that's not possible we at least try to to buy from countries friendly to us. The decline in the American manufacturing base over last few decades is scary. Country of origin in labeling is not always clear, and I wish country of manufacture were required on internet descriptions.

    Our Pontiac Vibe -- built in California and an engineering twin of the Toyota Matrix -- is our favorite car in 3 decades of owning various American and Japanese cars.

  • ya_think
    15 years ago

    The fact that this forum is so active is indicative of what a major purchase kitchen appliances are for many of us. When I (finally) re-do my kitchen and plop several thousands of dollars down on a fridge, dishwasher, range, etc. that's going to be a significant portion of my salary and budget. Country of origin won't even be a remote factor. Puh-leeez. I will buy whatever best meets my needs. If it's American, great.

  • loves2cook4six
    15 years ago

    I tried that and my GE fridge has since been replaced by a Miele

    Now in general I avoid made in China if at all possible - I just don't trust the quality or contents for most things and I have a problem with all the outsourcing we are becoming so dependent on. I will rather not purchase an item than purchase one made in China and believe me, take a walk through bb&b - I recently wanted new dish towels - almost ALL were made in China and that goes for the towels at W-S too.

    Beyond that I buy for quality and it seems that right now the quality is coming from Europe in terms of kitchen appliances.

    I had this idea tell me what you think....

    Imported goods should be taxed at 100% and that money should be used to fund factories in America so we can once again become a world power and not dependent on other countries for anything. Not to say it won't be available, just that it will be very expensive. (and yes, I realise that my Miele appliances would DOUBLE in price but we have "tough choices to make" and I for one am ready to start making them)

    About 30 years ago South Africa started levying a tax on imported goods. So if you bought a car assembled in South Africa but with parts from America, the parts were taxed. There was a huge outcry at the time IIRC but it sure helped the country get some top of the line factories up and running.

    We need to have quality made in the USA products at competitive prices with the stuff coming in from China and the only way to make that happen is to tax the imports so that the price of importing becomes more in line with the cost of locally made.

    And ya-think, be careful. You shouldn't only look at what meets your needs now, but whether that appliance that meets your needs now will LAST LONG ENOUGH to meet any need in 5 or 10 years. Otherwise you'll be replacing and the cost of using a cheaper appliance over 20-30 years just became more expensive then if you had gone with a more expensive quality product built to last in the first place.

    We've become a throw-away society, rather than fix we replace. Quality products should last a long time. You see appliances on these forums from the 50's being used and working. Why can't we expect today's products to last 70 years instead of 7? If it cost more (think taxation or whatever) to replace, we would fix and then manufacturers would have more incentive to increase quality as well.

    Gosh - I goota getta off my soap box. Didn't mean to start a fire - I just feel passionately about this.

  • bluekitobsessed
    15 years ago

    I don't feel any pressure, in large part because I'm frankly confused as to what's considered American.

    Thermador advertises as "an American Icon." OTOH, it's owned (?) by Bosch, which is German. OTOH, the service center is in Orange County, CA. OTOH, my Thermador range is a Canadian model (which I bought on Ebay from TX). And I have no idea where its parts were made, although I'd be very surprised if all its parts were made in the USA.

  • homepro01
    15 years ago

    Lovetocook,
    I just wanted to correct you. The kitchen towels from WS are not made it China. They are made in Turkey and there is one set that I think is made in India. These are the cotton towels. I don't know where the microfiber ones are made because I don't have those.

    Good luck!

  • chipshot
    15 years ago

    Theoretically speaking (and ignoring the fashion statement/prestige factor), if there were two appliances that differed only in their origins, wouldn't most people choose to buy locally?

  • kaffine
    15 years ago

    I think 3 things need to happen for the USA to get a good industrial base back.

    1) The consumer needs to realize paying a little more upfront for quality pays off in the long run.

    2) Companies need to realize it is better to compete on quality than price.

    3) Workers need to start taking pride in their jobs and get rid of this idea that they are entitled to $30+ an hour to tighten a bolt.

    I hate it when I see something with a made in the USA sticker that is a complete P.O.S. The USA can not compete with China on price the only thing we can compete on is quality. Unfortunately the manufactures and the public haven't figured this out yet. The public demands a lower price and the manufactures lower quality to achieve the lower price. Then the public gets feed up with low quality junk and stops buying from that company.

    How much longer before appliances are no longer considered durable goods because they aren't expected to last more than 5 years?

  • plllog
    15 years ago

    I'd love to buy American. I was having trouble making the excellent American fridge I'd chosen work for my needs, and ended up buying German. There is no American oven which competes with my German oven. The rest of my appliances, except half the cooktop, are American brands, but who knows where they're made.

    But I feel a lot more actual pressure to buy locally. Yeah, there are deals on the 'net. And the store I'm using actually has a big web presence. But it's important to me to be supporting the local, independent merchants, who have been so helpful, who pay rent so I can come see and feel the products, etc.

  • seattlemike
    15 years ago

    If a US manufacturing company with US workers produced a top-quality widget that scored 98% on an objective quality scale, and a foreign manufacturing company with foreign workers produced a very similar widget that also scored 98% using the same objective quality scale, the foreign one will cost significantly less. It's almost impossible for that US company to be competitive if it has to pay its workers $30 an hour, while the foreign company is paying its workers $3 an hour. Why do you think so many US companies are outsourcing? Many of us might be willing to pay a bit more for quality, and perhaps even moreso if it's "made in the US", but the purchasing decision becomes somewhat a no-brainer for me and my not-unlimited budget if faced with the widget example above.

  • 3katz4me
    15 years ago

    No, none at all. I make buying decisions based on value - best product/features/quality/service for the price I'm willing to pay. To me to do otherwise is more an act of goodwill/charity and I choose to make my charitable contributions in ways other than consumer purchases.

    And as others have pointed out - what's American and what's not? A product made in America by a Japanese company? Or a product made in Mexico by an American company? Or a product made in America by an American company using parts made in China?

    I'm a firm believer in being accountable for your actions - both as an individual and a corporation. If products are produced that consumers aren't willing to buy then the company and its employees need to innovate and figure out how to compete instead of continuing to do things the same old way.

    I will say I'm happier with my appliances that would generally be considered American brands than I am with my "foreign" appliances. The same cannot be said for my automotive choices.

  • lucky51
    15 years ago

    We should also redefine "free trade" and "fair trade". To allow the Chinese to ignore patents and copyrights freely, use near slave and prison labor with no regard to workers rights, to not hold them to environmental standards etc., all give them an unfair financial advantage to produce goods & services cheaper. We allow all this because we need to borrow money from them. It should be stopped. Buy America if you can or at least ASK if there is an American option just to make the retailer aware. Buy Local as it keeps more money in YOUR community.

  • chipshot
    15 years ago

    Labor is just part of the equation, SeattleMike, and often 10% or less of a products total cost. Factor in shipping, middlemam mark-ups, duties, etc. and comparable foreign products can end up costing more. And Lucky51 is right about lax enforcement by the Chinese.

    I purchased my first new American car (a Ford Taurus SHO) in 1992, so perhaps I missed out on some of the industry's darkest quality days. In general I've been happier with the products designed and built in North America than with those from elsewhere. Not long ago I rented a brand-new Camry from Hertz that was so bad I brought it back to exchange. I was presently surprised that the Kia they gave me was more satisfying to drive. Made in Japan/by Japanese doesn't automatically mean good.

  • homepro01
    15 years ago

    Chipshot,
    Your neighbors in Ohio made that Camry. And the Hyundia Kia is made in Alabama.

    I think it is so subjective. I agree with Lucky about the lax enforcement by the Chinese and I try to buy very few products made it China but it is extremely difficult and requires a lot of leg work. I also shop locally. We have a lot of small business merchants going under because of large conglomerate stores like Macys and Walmart. Yet we all complain that we can never find that exact product we are looking for in these large homogenized stores.

    Chipshot,
    I loved the Tauras SHO and always wanted one. It was built when Ford bought Merkur (a german company I believe) but they stopped making the high performance four door cars. A huge mistake on their part. One of the many missteps by Ford. I loved the Merkur XR4TI and almost had one when I turned 17 but the seller decided not to sell!

    On another rant, I don't want fuel efficient small car. I want a fuel efficient large car. If you have a family of five, what is a Chevy Volt going to do for you? Small car are inherently fuel efficient. The mini cooper gets something like 30miles per gallon without the hybrid gimmick. My honda civic did that without a problem. I am my current car with a fuel efficient and performance based engine. I want to see a Yukon that gets 40miles per gallon. When Ford and the Euro car manufacturers can do that, they will get my money on anew car purchase! Rant off.

    Thanks for letting me get that off my chest!

  • seattlemike
    15 years ago

    The top considerations in my personal buying decisions of major items are: performance, quality, reliability, and price. Each of those four factors might carry a different weight, depending on the specific item under consideration for purchase. I would say that my "system" is a combination of objectivity and subjectivity. If, after my "analysis", the top product just happens to be made in the US, so be it. I'll buy it. If it just happens to be made in Cambodia, so be it. I'll buy it. On the rare occasion when it might be a virtual tie between a US-made and a foreign-made item, I would most likely opt for the US-made one. As you can see by my choice of words, I have yet to be faced with that situation, at least, not for a major purchase. Since this is the Appliance Forum, I would consider most of my appliance purchases as major purchases.

  • weedmeister
    15 years ago

    "Companies need to realize it is better to compete on quality than price. "

    Doesn't work. Consumers by and large gravitate to the lower price, not the higher quality. Example: VHS vs BetaMax. Pioneer's LaserDisc vs RCA's CCD disc cartridge.

    " ...the only way to make that happen is to tax the imports so that the price of importing becomes more in line with the cost of locally made."

    In most every case I heard of or seen of this, US companies simply raise their prices, not their quality. They go for shortterm profits rather than long term market share. The most obvious instance is with the computer memory chip business. When tariffs were introduced, US chip makers simply raised their prices to the same as the Japanese/Korean makers. They did not regain any market share. When the tariffs expired, consumers went back to the cheaper non-US suppliers. The US makers disappeared (RCA, Fairchild, Synetics, Zilog, Mostek, etc).

    The only time I've seen this succeed is with HarleyDavidson. High tariffs were put on Japanese MCs which gave HD a chance to retool and compete.

  • chipshot
    15 years ago

    Have you read the recent news about HD closing plants and laying off workers? No one is immune in a downturn, not even success stories. I sometimes wonder whether competition between states has weakened the US's national economy.

    It's hard to argue making decisions such as described above. They all certainly sound rational, and consumers probably shouldn't have to think about the extended ramifications of their purchases. My guess is that most don't until they or someone close to them are affected by the outcome.

    Homepro, I think most Americans want what you want. A large and efficient vehicle seems like the holy grail now, but techological improvements (not legislation!) will eventually provide. Diesels offer a real shot at the goal, and with clean diesel fuel now available in the US, are becoming a reality.

    Allow me to correct a couple of misstatements. The Merkur vehicles sold at Lincoln-Mercury dealers were not made by a German company bought by Ford but by Ford's European arm. Ford will be bringing more cars to the US from its European operations in the next few years. It will be interesting to see how they do in the market.

    Aside from its Yamaha-manufactured engine and (Japanese?) transmission, the SHO was entirely homegrown. I understand Ford may be reviving the nameplate on its new Taurus. How does 350 hp with all-wheel-drive, lots of room, and decent fuel economy sound? It sounds great to me, and I can't think of anything from the Japanese or European manufacturers that will touch it.

  • homepro01
    15 years ago

    Thanks for the correction Chipshot. I remembered the Merkur and then they were no more in the US. Unfortunately, the SHO would be under powered when compared to the BMW 5 series XI series at almost 400hp and the Mercedes E series all wheel drive which would be it's competitors. The Lexus GS would also give it a run for its money but it is nice to see another options for a car. Was the SHO a front wheel drive or rear wheel?
    Homepro01

  • sara_the_brit_z6_ct
    15 years ago

    I made a decision in my remodel to buy appliances from places where I knew the employees were being paid a living wage, with access to health insurance or a state health system. It resulted in:
    Bosch dishwasher made in the US
    Bosch oven made in the US
    Leibherr fridge made in Austria
    Bertazzoni cooktop made in Italy
    vent hood made in Italy (yes, REALLY made in Italy_

    My sink was made in Canada. My tap in the US. My quartz countertop in the US.

    I want quality. I want the features I chose. But I want to know the people making them are making a fair wage and are not being exploited.

  • chipshot
    15 years ago

    All previous Taurus SHO's were front-wheel-drive. The MB and BMW you're comparing the predicted new SHO to probably cost $50K-$60K or more (ditto for any Audi meeting similar description). Any new SHO will likely sell for $20K-$30K less, making them somewhat less than direct competitors.

    Lots of people were sad to see the demise of the Merkur models. Hopefully they and others will like what's coming (which will probably start out on the small side but add medium-size and performance models later).

    Just to put an appliance spin on all this, didn't both Ford and GM once have appliance subsidiaries?

  • jeff8407
    15 years ago

    I have to chime in. I'm an Economist by training, and I no longer know what American-made means.

    My Toyota was designed and built in California. My wife's Chevrolet was made in Canada. My Whirlpool washer was made in Germany. Our General Electric oven was made in Mexico.

    This being said, I no longer feel any pressure to "buy American" because I no longer know what it means. More than 50% of all the Fortune 500 companies sales were overseas. Does "buy-American" mean products made here or the just the corporation based here?

  • jakkom
    15 years ago

    Check out the article in today's WSJ titled "What Is an American Car?" before talking about how bad things for the Big 3. The article points out that a Toyota Sequoia is 80% domestic US parts, compared to 68% for a Jeep Patriot.

    Excerpt:
    "Once you put down the flags and shut off all the television ads with their Heartland, apple-pie America imagery, the truth of the car business is that it transcends national boundaries. A car or truck sold by a "Detroit" auto maker such as GM, Ford or Chrysler could be less American -- as defined by the government's standards for "domestic content" -- than a car sold by Toyota, Honda or Nissan -- all of which have substantial assembly and components operations in the U.S.

    Auto Industry NewsThomas Klier, an economist with the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago who has studied extensively the realignment of the American auto industry, wrote in an October 2007 paper that as of 2006 about 25% of the parts used in vehicles assembled in the U.S. came from overseas, and another 25% were manufactured here by foreign-owned parts makers. The Detroit companies wave the Stars and Stripes when they advertise their wares or look for loans in Washington, but when they talk to investors or the business press, they stress their aggressive efforts to promote "global sourcing," a code for, "Buy More Parts from China and Mexico.""

    The author poses the question: "The muddle about what constitutes an "American" car is evident in the fleet of cars I own. Depending on who's at home, you could find a Saturn, a Chevy, a Toyota and a Subaru crowded into my driveway. Of these, one was assembled in the U.S. (Extra credit in the accompanying quiz if you can guess which one.)"

    Answer: The Toyota Camry.

  • homechef6
    15 years ago

    No Problemo! I have a very fine BlueStar range made in Pennsylvania, a KitchenAid refrigerator and a KitchenAid Dishwasher. Absolutely love my BlueStar, and so far so good on the KitchenAids. If American Manufacturers want our business, they need to produce quality of workmanship and components. This is the 21st century, but they haven't got that message yet in most cases. Sad, but true.

  • steve_o
    15 years ago

    consumers probably shouldn't have to think about the extended ramifications of their purchases. My guess is that most don't until they or someone close to them are affected by the outcome.

    I think consumers should have to think about the (extended) ramifications of their purchases. I understand that the interconnectedness of business can make that quite difficult, and that there are different ways to view almost any situation.

    But we should at least try. For better or worse, in early-21st-century America, money talks and pretty much everything else walks. Folks don't buy TVs and computer software at Circuit City? Buh-bye, Circuit City. People spend bunches of money on Toyotas? Toyota becomes the #1 auto maker in the world.

    Every dollar you spend is a vote for or against a way of doing business. If you and your neighbors shop at Big Orange instead of your friendly local TrueValue, the TrueValue eventually becomes an empty storefront. If you choose to buy a product that is now made in a country which has trouble observing laws regarding intellectual property, pollution, and human rights, you are encouraging that bad behavior.

    I realize this is a bit of an oversimplification. But maybe now that money no longer flows like water, it will be more important to spend that money wisely. Buying a quality and/or inexpensive product isn't all there is to buying.

  • erikanh
    15 years ago

    Why would I shop at True Value when the selection, prices and service are better at my Home Depot? My neighbors work at Home Depot. Does bigger = bad?

    I feel no loyalty toward the American auto industry in Detroit. I'm not sure which are greedier, the auto unions or the fat cat executives that reward themselves with bonuses even when profits are down. I've driven many, many different kinds of American cars when traveling and renting, and not a single one of them could come close to the quality of the Hondas that I've owned. The Hondas I purchase are made in the U.S. by American workers, and I've never felt a bit of guilt buying or purchasing one.

    Toyota is #1 because their products are the best and they've perfected their business model. That's how it should be.

  • chipshot
    15 years ago

    Toyota perfect? (Yes, I know that's not exactly what you said.) I doubt even they would agree to that. What is great about Toyota is that it never stops trying to improve and appears to do a good job of choosing areas for improvement. Too often the "domestic three" have given the impression of pursuing the "flavor of the month" when it comes to implementing change.

    Based on many comments I've heard, one place Toyota needs to do better is at the dealership level. Apparently customers want their products badly enough that they put up with poor treatment by dealers. I'm not saying that domestic dealers are great; I've heard plenty of complaints about them too. But unlike them, Toyota has done well (though they too were slammed in 2008) in spite of their dealers.

  • jakkom
    15 years ago

    If you think Toyota's dealers are bad, you should try Honda's. They're mostly all snotty and uninterested in helping. You can't even take the majority of models out for a test-drive. Despite this, I'd still buy one if I could afford it, because they're a step above the Hyundai I'm driving now (the rest of my family all have Hondas or Acuras, with one Lexus from an in-law).

    But then, I don't buy a car for the dealership hand-holding. In fact, I bought my last car over the Net, which was a fabulous experience. Cost comparisons through email, got exactly what I wanted with no hassle, spent 1/2 hr to pick up the car and drive off.

    All I care about is the service dept. There are 2 Hyundai dealers in my area. The last time I needed dealer service, the service rep at the selling dealer was so rude I actually refused to leave my car with them and demanded the keys back. Took it to the other dealer and then e-mailed the first dealer to describe what happened and why I was dissatisfied. The manager replied, thanking me for my feedback (although I still have no intention of going back there until that one particular service rep either retires or is fired; she's been increasingly unpleasant towards everyone over the last 5 yrs).

    And I think this holds an important lesson for any mfg. Customer loyalty and satisfaction isn't a question any longer of provenance or domicile, but of response. In a world where bigger has overwhelming corporate domination in terms of scale, there is the struggle to balance customer service against the bottom line. We can philosophically accept that not every appliance or car manufactured on an assembly line is going to be perfect every time, but it's often the hassle and unpleasantness of repair that leaves a bad taste in the consumer's mouth, and impels them to announce, "I'm never going to buy Brand X ever again!"

    When you consider that most companies outsource their repairs, then you are introducing an even greater 'wildcard' factor into the equation. One customer may get the repairperson with 30 yrs of experience and great customer service skills, whereas another customer (with an equally expensive or even more costly appliance) may end up with the newbie who's never seen that model and can barely figure out how to turn it on and off.

    Ironically, it's become like banking. The general public only meets the lowest-paid, most unimportant employees. The really high-paid executives are never seen, and never interact with any but the most "important" customers.

  • steve_o
    15 years ago

    Ironically, it's become like banking. The general public only meets the lowest-paid, most unimportant employees. The really high-paid executives are never seen, and never interact with any but the most "important" customers.

    It has long amazed me that the clowns in the corner offices and expensive suits think they deserve their huge bucks because they lead their company. The fact is, people rarely decide to do business with or avoid a company because of the guy/gal in charge. Customers arrange around the airline with the surly flight attendants. They avoid the stores at which the staff considers customers interruptions of their free time. They don't stay at the hotels where the maids are mere robots cleaning rooms. Customers do continue to patronize the supply store where the clerk stays a bit late to get them the part they need or the beauty parlor where the receptionist works them into the schedule in a real pinch.

    The people who make or break most companies are not the hot-shots in charge. Usually, they are the lowest-paid and the furthest down in the company org charts. You have to wonder when (or if) that will ever change.

  • seattlemike
    15 years ago

    Since many of the replying posts refer to our dear old American automobile industry and how they have royally screwed things up, let's not forget that WE are in the process of bailing out and rescuing those poor souls from the very pickle they put themselves into. (Sorry for the terrible grammar!) So not only are some of you taking your hard-earned money elsewhere, your hard-earned money is going to pay to perpetuate their existence. I would love to keep my money at home, so to speak, but it galls me that some of my money is going to save incompetent businesses while the common folks are filing for bankruptcy in record numbers and I am finding it increasingly difficult to make ends meet every month.

  • chipshot
    15 years ago

    SeattleMike, do you blame the auto companies for potential customers not being able to get credit to purchase their products because of actions that banks, speculators, etc. made? Granted the "Detroit three" have made plenty of bad decisions, but even Toyota got stuck with a big new big truck plant down in Texas that just got up to speed before going on shutdown.

  • ebse
    15 years ago

    Not at all. My husband and I work hard for our money, get no breaks or tax incentives. We buy the best value and the best quality for the lowest price, which, more often than not, is NOT American.

  • ashleysf
    15 years ago

    NO. I think the same way as ebse - my husband and i slog it out to make money, get no benefits for being responsible with money, just keep seeing our taxes shooting up and up as a reward for our hard work. So, I buy the best value for my money. I hate my old GE profile cook top and am waiting to get rid of it. My fridge is a sub-zero and pretty much every thing else in my kitchen is not american. BTW/ we have never owned an American car - but, our last european car was manufactured in South Carolina - so maybe that is not true, after all. I am american, but have worked for 12 years in a Japanese semi conductor company with huge operations and thousands of american employees in California. So, what is American and what is non-american anymore? This is a global economy whether we like it or not. So, I am always happy to buy the best quality for my money without any pressure to buy american. If some american companies suffer (especially in the auto sector), it is not because of our lack of support, it is because of the poor business strategies - and anyway, Congress is always there to bail them out with my tax $$$$. So, no worries, I am supporting them by working hard to pay my taxes :)

  • guadalupe
    15 years ago

    If the American manufacturers produced the best quality appliance at the best price with a lifetime warranty, we would still find an excuse to buy something else, like its ferrari red

  • erikanh
    15 years ago

    guadalupe, that's a silly statement. If the American products were the best quality and the best price, why wouldn't we buy them? Sure, there are a few people who might buy an appliance for the status of a European name brand, but I contend those people are in the vast minority.

    In the case of the American car manufacturers, it's ridiculous to me that such poorly run companies churning out inferior products are asking to be bailed out. Why do they make so many different models and offer so many ugly colors? Talk about a bad business model.

    Toyota and Honda are also being hit hard by the credit crunch, but they're not in danger of going under. After decades of poor management and producing mediocre automobiles, maybe the American companies will finally wake up to what they need to do to survive and thrive in the future. Of course with a bailout of American taxpayer money, maybe they won't have to smarten up at all.

  • ccoombs1
    15 years ago

    I remember years and years ago Chrysler was on this huge "buy American" campaign. That's all you heard from them....Buy American! Well, I had little kids then so I wanted a mini-van. I got a Dodge Caravan. Want to guess where it was made? Mexico!! The caravans were being made in Mexico and Canada at that time. So even though I "bought American", the only one who profited from it was the big CEOs at chrysler. Mexican workers got their pay checks, american workers were standing in the unemployment lines, and the big auto CEOs were getting richer and richer. Greed in the automotive industry and the labor unions are why the auto makers are in such financial trouble now. My last vehicle purchase was a Nissan....and it was made in Tennessee.

  • geo91324
    15 years ago

    Of course.

    American built: yes; American brand: not so much.

    All else being equal (which are truly the operative words here), I will always buy American. Despite all its problems, this is an incredible country we live in, and if you've ever traveled the world or lived abroad, you know how true those words are. Why wouldn't I want to support my neighbors, my community, my country?

    I will not buy junk or over-pay for something regardless of where it's made. But if I'm choosing among comparable products, the American made ones will always have the advantage.

  • User
    15 years ago

    Coombs - the caravan might have been assembled in Mex/Can but where do you suppose the seats, tires, wire harnesses, carpet, tires, wheels, glass, lights, radio, door panels, engine, transmission, and screws were made? The vast majority came from the good ole USA and were made by suppliers that employed Americans.