Congratulations on starting the adoption process. I hope that goes really quickly and smoothly for you. Some friends of mine adopted from Ethiopia two years ago and are incredibly happy with their son. I wish you the same joy. One thing to consider, if you're planning on adopting an infant, is making it as convenient as possible to feed them. That means keeping all the bottles and accessories (nipples, cleaning supplies, bottle warmer...) somewhere that you can easily do the entire process (clean bottles, put them away/take them out, store, mix and warm the formula) in one place. Obviously you won't need that functionality forever, so also think about what that space will become when your babies have become children; maybe you should put it adjacent to the snack area, so the snack area can just get bigger as the kids grow. I know it's a hassle to go through all these layouts, but remember, that is NOTHING compared to the hassle of living with a badly designed kitchen for the next decade or however long. Put in the time now to make your life easier later. You won't regret it. So here are some questions and suggestions: You bake infrequently (once a month), so why get a double oven? A single oven and the counter space above it (where you could keep your George Foreman grill or your microwave) seems like it'd be much more useful for you. Also, am I misunderstanding the layouts? It looks like you have both a 30" range AND a double oven. Is that a 30" range or a 30" cooktop? If it's a range, then you would have three ovens... why, since you bake so infrequently? If you want the flexibility of having more oven space for those rare occasions when you need it, I think you would love a convection oven (see link below--there are tons of these from all different brands, of course). They are basically speed ovens capable of baking or roasting anything a regular oven can bake or roast (but it cooks much faster), but when you're NOT using them to bake, you just use them as a microwave. So with a 30" range and a convection microwave, you would be set. And you would save a ton of money, in addition to gaining more storage and more counterspace. And that's the other reason to ditch the double oven. Counterspace is even more precious for you, with the way you live, than it is for the average family. That's because you're a two-cook family, so you need prep space for two people working simultaneously--and you plan on having boy scouts/girl scouts in there sometimes, making it way more than a two-cook kitchen at times--and also, you like a lot of "as seen on TV" cooking devices. You need counterspace to use them on; the ones you use daily (toaster, etc.) would be most convenient if they lived on the counter, but even though you would probably store the ones you use less frequently, you'll still want enough counter space that you don't have to clear off the counter every time you want to use them. So you need counterspace not just for prep and a toaster, but for several other devices too. And the other need for counterspace comes from the snacking, reheating leftovers, etc. part of the equation. So in other words, counterspace is A LOT more important for you than having multiple ovens. You use the dining room all the time and would like the kitchen to be a hangout for entertaining, and appropriately for that, you've put a counter with seating (seats in the dining room) where those two rooms meet. So you were right to ditch the little table in the kitchen shown in one of your layouts. You don't need more seating there; it would just get in the way. Since you bring groceries in the door shown at the bottom of the layout, having the fridge near there is convenient. For groceries, most people like to put them on a counter or tabletop and start putting them away from there, rather than setting them on the floor. If you prefer that too, then you'll need a decent amount of countertop near the fridge. None of your layouts have that, except the ones that have some kind of table or cart in the middle of the kitchen--but people have expressed concerns that your kitchen's size and layout would make a central table or cart more of an obstacle than a help. So, putting aside for a moment the fact that you bought two 18" pantries already--maybe there's somewhere else for them to go, and if not you certainly wouldn't be the first person to buy something that she ended up not being able to use (many people sell their "oops" purchases on Craigslist or donate them for a tax deduction, or put them elsewhere like the garage or basement)--anyway, leaving out the pantries for now, is there a layout you can come up with that gives you counterspace right next to the fridge? I think the one you posted on Feb 10 at 0:35, with the table in the kitchen, is a good start--keep the fridge there, but instead of a double oven, have a counter that runs along that bottom wall almost all the way to the door where you bring groceries in. Given the dimensions, this counter would be an L shape. It would be a deep counter right beside the fridge, but a great place to keep "as seen on TV" devices that you use less often and a great place to put groceries that you've just brought in. Since you preheat frozen food a lot, would it make sense to have a freezer in the basement? Or is your house laid out in such a way that that's too far away? If a basement freezer doesn't make sense, what about having a mini-freezer instead of a mini-fridge under one of the counters? Here is a link that might be useful: Panasonic Convection Microwave

If you haven't totally lost patience with me yet, I did some doodling around this weekend and came up with this, which I'm calling "anchored island." (Ha!) Strengths of this one: 1. Ample counter space, including 2 prep areas. I don't think the second sink is necessary, but I put it in there as an idea. I don't use the sink a huge amount when prepping, typically. 2. Bar seating that is attached to the dining room. 3. Space for 2 cooks. 4. Adequate (48" plus) aisles. 5. Keeps wall ovens (not required, but preferred). Weaknesses: 1. Refrigerator position, particularly in relation to the bay window and the dishwasher. That's potentially a bit of a traffic jam. I put in a counter-depth fridge, but I would be willing to consider a built-in if that would make a workable plan. 2. Still a relatively small prep area between the main sink and the stove. I do think the proximity of the "island" to the refrigerator and cooktop helps alleviate that. Cooking prep could be done on the main cabinet wall, while secondary prep (salads, etc.) could be done on the "island."

Well, homechef59, looks like you were prescient about my needing to post my question in the Building forum. As we were working through due diligence on the house we put under contract, I noticed my husband seemed awfully taciturn..a little depressed really...and definitely not excited about the purchase. Turns out he really wants to build again. My friends say this is kind of like when a husband wants another baby but wife is satisfied with the kids they have..."YOU aren't the one having the baby!" He says I did such a great job the first time around he can't help but want another one. (I might be more persuaded if this was about another kid than another house!) I am flattered, sort of, but mostly overwhelmed. The other piece was that the inspection did reveal a lot of "deferred maintenance" issues that would really eat up our renovation budget. And since we are such perfectionists about our own level of maintenance, it really turned him off. And since the agents and others involved have said it was all really normal for an older home, we realized the only solution (aside from changing his expectations, hmmm) was a new build. So, off to the building forum I go. Thanks for all the stories and examples of family life...I'll be thinking of all of these as I chart the next path. And some of you who have mentioned the realities of building for aging have me inspired by the idea to do a very accessible house this time around. In my area, there are virtually no homes built for accessibility. So whether it's us growing older in place or a feature for a buyer, I am really focused on the whole concept. Meanwhile, I'm off to find us temporary housing....sigh!

We had the stair designer come by today, and it was a great meeting. I think the last time he was here we caught him on a bad day but this time he was really helpful, taking the time to answer all my questions and walk me through the design logic behind various aspects of his drawing. It helped that I came prepared with a better understanding of stair ergonomics and code thanks to those who have taken the time to share their thoughts with me on this thread. The end result is that we have made some minor tweaks and improvements to the plan, I'm getting what I want out of it, and I understand exactly why each of the various choices have been made. Key highlights: 1. We are doing away with the top 20" landing which @res2architect and @3onthetree objected to, and converting upper stairs to four equal 11.25" deep steps. The stairs will begin right when you open the door from the kitchen, but that door opens in to the kitchen (i.e. does not swing over the stairs) and in any case we plan to remove it in a few years once we're done the toddler phase and just have an open doorway there. I thought the point about the odd stride pattern from kitchen to backyard was an important one, especially as that's where we'll come in and out of the backyard, often carrying dishes and food to bbq and so on. The upper portion of the stairs are also the piece that guests will use the most so it will be good to minimize the quirks there. 2. We are going to have the stair railings built to be removable -- @Sandra Guistwhite sort of what you were suggesting (thanks, that was thoughtful). Not hinged or anything, just something that can be unbolted and taken off if we ever need to bring a sofa through or replace the washing machine, or if we really need much wider access to the under-stairs area for a project. 3. We are going to place the bottom newel post on the second step up from the lower landing and begin the handrail there to allow slightly better access to the under-stair area. This (and only this) part of the design is in fact a deviation from contemporary Ontario building code but since we don't have an inspector coming in we can get away with it, and I can see from some googling that it's a pretty common design that doesn't seem particularly risky. In fact, I only realized today this is how our other main staircase is designed, and my parent's staircase is the same, so I presume it was the norm in a previous era. At the end of it all, I think we'll have stairs which would alarm many Houzzers who are accustomed to a different type of housing stock and set of codes, but which will be relatively safe and work well for our needs and our quirky space. The stair designer told me today that he's done several sets of stairs in our immediate neighbourhood and designs like this are very often necessary. It turns out lots of people are putting in winder steps in high end contemporary renovations around here out of necessity. I do want to thank everyone who took the time to think about this and share their comments, even if the main thrust of many of them was "wow, you are/ your house is insane". I'll be sure to come back and post a photo when it's all done so you can see how it's turned out, even if it does end up horrifying some of you. I have a thick skin and can take it, and I do feel confident we're proceeding with the plan that's right for us and our house. I'm excited to see this come together!