Yes, you can extract and clean the seeds from refrigerated tomatoes and get good germination.

If they're Goose Creek seeds, though, I'd suggest you wrap them up in an apron for storage until next year. It's a karma thing.

What's the old adage..."tomatoes come from the equator, so never store in the refrigerator". ;)

Seriously, chilled storage leads to damage (so-called "chill injury"), loss of flavor and texture, tissue breakdown, bacterial spoilage, etc. but yes, as hoosier said, the seeds are viable IF they haven't been overly-chilled for too long.

Dave

So digdirt,

Those tomatoes that fall on the ground, in your compost, or in the flower garden and over winter to become volunteers in the spring or for those who winter sow tomatoes..... Do the seeds have supper gene's or is the "chill injury" just when you have them in a refrigerator at 40 degrees? I'm just a newbie to all this information which is somewhat confusing. Whose 1st year was a disaster with potting soil in containers and little else. Been tough learning and don't want to repeat last years results next spring. Thanks for taking time to help.

George

Can I ask a question (getting ready to cover head and duck and run cuz apparently I'm not in the know about this) ...What is the apparent dislike for Goose Creek tomatoes? I mean wrap in apron strings, karma, etc., Can I ask what this tomato ever did to anyone? I can take it, come on guys, I feel like the person with spinach in my teeth and no one wants to tell. Please let me know if I am committing a terrible sin by buying, growing and eating Goose Creek. If I am then I think it is only fair you inform me of what I am doing wrong. Hope I didn't commit a faux paux here but I just would like to know. Thanks, Cbad

Example of Goose Creek promo hype: "The seeds of this sublime fruit have been passed down through generations since the 1800's when Jimmy's great-great grandmother, a young Caribbean slave, smuggled them with her aboard ship. When the ship docked at Charleston near Goose Creek, South Carolina, she had the treasured seeds with her, hidden deep in her skirt pocket and planted them that first spring. Jimmy's grandmother, Elouise Watson, shared this precious heirloom with him more than 45 years ago, assuring Goose Creek's place in his family's garden for generations to come."

Maybe I've misrepresented the clothing in which the seed was hidden. I thought I remembered it as "smuggled in her apron." So, maybe it was a shirt pocket instead.

Quite a colorful anecdote, which is not all that unusual when one considers all the other rather creative historic fiction that's been spun around other "heirloom" varieties. Hey, whatever sells ...

OK, I get it. Stigmatized by mythology. From what I'm reading and learning, it's the flavor of the fruit that sells Goose Creek. Frankly, I don't care where any variety came from or how it got here. If it grows and produces well for me and the tomatoes taste great, it's a winner.

So digdirt,

Those tomatoes that fall on the ground, in your compost, or in the flower garden and over winter to become volunteers in the spring or for those who winter sow tomatoes..... Do the seeds have supper gene's or is the "chill injury" just when you have them in a refrigerator at 40 degrees?

No geeboss it's just a matter of improving your odds when going to the effort of saving seeds. ;)

Cold can really damage tomatoes as I said above - that's how we get all the tasteless store-bought ones. And it may damage seed embryos if prolonged. Freezing can rupture and kill them. But not necessarily all, especially if they were insulated in any way. How many of all the tomato seeds that end up in your compost pile or garden dirt actually sprout as volunteers? Say maybe 10%, 15%? So we try to keep the odds in our favor when saving seed and go for 80% germination or better.

Dave

russ: very nicely put. I love Goose Creek. I've read the "digs" about it and just wanted to know if it was something Goose Creek said or did. I get it now though, it is the colorful story woven by Laurel that makes this tomato no good. Glad I didn't let folklore influence my choice. I think its a great tomato and has for the past two years been a staple in my garden. I am going to order another one very soon. Cbad.

I believe the tale of Goose Creek started with a slave sewing in seeds to the string/cord of an apron and smuggling them with her and that now a decendant is trying to patent the seed? Yet many a matter by this plant is said to cure the ills of a chilly winter day just look at Ray's matters and dreaming of a BLT double stacked with these great love apples.....yummmmmm (;)

George

thanks for the input.

I actually do not store tomatoes in the frig. I put veggie scraps in a zip lock bag and store that in the frig to later put in the mulch pile. I find the idea of storing veggie scraps in a bucket under the sink rater gross. I have also moved veggie scraps to freezer if space is low. I actually got into this habit when I had a vemiposting pile. Yes I could add the stuff to the pile daily but, I often forget until after it is dark.

Thanks for the help on chilled tomato seeds. I will not save those seeds then. I actually have plenty of seeds of goose creek already, I just thought since they are hard to come by I would try yo save some for others. So if I save more, I will get the seeds before any of the tomato scraps hit the frig.

There are so many tomato experts on this forum. It is amazing.

I like good tomatoes - I like the history/stories about where
a tomato came from and how it became a heirloom (did I just
use THAT word??)... I think it's important to remember
where a tom came from - otherwise it's lost... if we all just
blew it off - it just seems like such a loss! It's important
to remember and remember accurately!

I'm all for a good tomato - but I don't think marketing a
tomato with an embellished history is all that appealing to me.

I'm not ready to boycott (as I have with other seed companies
for putting marketing their products ahead of everything else)
but it sure doesn't sit well with me either.

I store all my vegetable seeds in the freezer and this includes tomato seeds of all kinds. I probably have 250 plus varieties--more like 300 cause I haven't counted recently.
So long as they are very well dried when you put them into the freezer they will last for many many years.
It is typical for me to select and grow 8 to 12 year old seeds
and get 75% plus germination.

And there is the plain truth!

Of course you can, larryw. But that is a very different situation. Seeds that overwinter in the compost pile or in the ground or in a tomato in the refrigerator aren't "well dried" are they? ;)

And, to be truthful, many who are new to seed saving don't dry their seeds enough to be safe for freezer storage either. Seeds air dried normally and stored in any cool dry place will last and produce for many years too. Freezing them isn't necessary, as many seed savers can attest.

Dave

What an absolute load of twaddle, about tomatoes being in the fridge and getting cold damaged, I should think that this occurs only when they have been left in there for at least three weeks or more, I keep my spare tomatoes in the fridge all the time for up to ten days in most cases-all it does is delay ripening still further and becoming over ripe,so when you get them out they are still nice and fresh to eat, cold does reduce the flavour a bit-but once you have got them out into the warm at room temp the flavour returns in about a couple of hours or so to the original flavour,
As regards seeds in the fridge, I have stored all my saved seeds in the fridge in sealed tupperware plastic boxes in their packets for over ten years of constantly being cold,the seeds usually give high germination with added vigor when sown in the spring, as the seeds seem to benefit from a cold spell in there and it is very similar to stratifying seeds outside to all weathers to aid germination, seeds sense when they come into the warm again and think it is spring and germinate with a flourish and vigor.
I am very surprised that Digdirt didn't know all that and was familiur with the method,most people have been doing it like that for years and have great crops.

Tomato seeds don't need cold stratifying, that's for sure.

That said, we're talking about a plant that grows wild and cultivated quite well in places as cold as upper Asia (Russia) during the warm season.

Most of our annual vegetable crop seeds can take a good bit of abuse, on whole.

If we're using our seed for home garden they can take even more abuse unless you really need that high-end/dependable germination rate.

Heck, most of us (even the lazy seed savers) will lose more of our germination percentage due to improper seed starting (depth of seed/soil temperature/etc) rather than improper seed storage.

I am very surprised that Digdirt didn't know all that and was familiur with the method,most people have been doing it like that for years and have great crops.

Well aware of it mickyfinn and store my seeds the same way - in a jar in their paper packs in the fridge. Not for the purpose of stratification because as nc-crn said, they don't need that. But just because it is convenient and keeps them all in one place and dry in our lakeside humidity. Most, however, store theirs in a box on a shelf like most seed suppliers do.

But again, dry seed storage is a very different situation from the question posted here which was about wet seeds in a tomato in the fridge for an unknown length of time.

DRY seed storage is very different from WET seed storage - as should be obvious to all.

Dave

At the end of the 2008 season, and after a couple of nights of light frost, I picked the rest of the Yellow Submarine tomatoes that were on two vines. They weren't really fit to eat. Mushy. Frosted a bit. Some were bursted.

I put them in a quart Ziplock bag in the refridgerator and left them for two or three weeks. One night with nothing to do, I ran them all through a blender for a moment, and poured the pulp into a quart jar and left it out in the cold garage for a week.

I guess it got warm enough during the day to grow a mold, because that's what it did. Then I ran the seeds through the normal steps, cleaning them, bleaching them, drying them, etc. When I test germinated them, I got over 90%. Does that address the original post sufficiently? Or is there an issue I'm missing here?

Bill

Get a little closer to the actual facts here folks.

Tomato seed lose viability as a result of storage conditions over time. Here are the 4 basic conditions.

1. Cool and Dry - If they are properly dried and stored cold, tomato seed will maintain viability for about 10 years. Freeze them down below zero and you can stretch that out to about 20 years. Viability is variety dependent with for example hearts such as Anna Russian losing viability much faster than ordinary types. Seed are best stored in a tightly sealed glass container whether in the refrigerator or the deepfreeze. Please include a dessicant if you freeze seed!

2. Cool and Wet - You can store seed that are wet in cool conditions for extended periods. The key temperature is about 55 degrees with wet seed germinating above 55 and tending to stay dormant below 55. It is not a sharp cutoff, rather a range with some varieties germinating even as low as 40 degrees and others staying dormant until they reach the high 60's. Do NOT freeze wet seed. The ice crystals will damage the embryos. Please note that seed from tomatoes in the refrigerator are not damaged as long as they were not frozen. Seed stored cool and damp will maintain viability for 1 to 3 years depending on variety.

3. Warm and dry. You can safely store dry seed under your bed or on a shelf in the closet. They will remain viable for about 5 years and some will still germinate even after 10 years. The key with seed stored warm and dry is that the seed lose vigor after about 3 years. If you germinate them, it may take a while to get a plant growing properly because the seed quality has declined. The plants are perfectly fine to use and seed saved from plants grown from weak seed are good. It is key to this storage method to protect the seed from humidity. Best is in a tightly sealed glass container with a dessicant. Second best is in seed envelopes exposed to a temperature controlled climate such as in a heated/cooled house. Poorest is outdoors in a shed in envelopes exposed to all the vagaries of temperature and humidity.

4. Warm and damp - This is the poorest way to store seed. It encourages mold and the seed readily break dormancy. Tomato seed can take about a month of warm damp conditions after which they lose quality very rapidly.

Somebody is sure to ask how I am such an expert. I am not, but i know someone who is. I asked a certified seed technologist about 5 years ago how best to store tomato seed. The above is the condensed version of her reply.

DarJones

DarJones

Thanks for the concise reply regarding seed storage and viabliity under various storage conditions. Making notes so I can remember what to expect when germinating my seeds.

George

Well, hi folks! Hello there hoosiercherokee.

I see we're dissing the Goose Creek history again. Not nice, Bill, but, since it's an annual ritual here at GW, somebody's gotta throw down first....may as well be you.

Thank you to those GW members who e-mailed or called me about this thread, so here I am, all 5' 1" of me -- the Defense Team running on to the field! Well, hobbling onto the field since I threw my knee out dancing at my niece's wedding. Dang pesky tequila shots...

As far as 'embellishing' the history of this tomato, not so. The story is from the lips of the family directly to me and not anecdotal. The seeds were brought from the Caribbean in the pocket of her skirt, not shirt. Shirt on top, skirt on bottom. Pocket of skirt. (Apron would have been on top of skirt.) No apron involved.
Fer God's sake, when you guys are making fun of me, please diss accurately.

tom8olvr says:
"I think it's important to remember where a tom came from - otherwise it's lost... if we all just blew it off - it just seems like such a loss! It's important to remember and remember accurately!
I'm all for a good tomato - but I don't think marketing a
tomato with an embellished history is all that appealing to me. I'm not ready to boycott (as I have with other seed companies for putting marketing their products ahead of everything else) but it sure doesn't sit well with me either."

"Well Heck Yeah!", as Napolean Dynamite would say. The history is fascinating. This tomato has a well-documented history, nothing is made-up in my description. Elouise Watson took great care to preserve this variety. For many varieties there are no living relatives or descendents carrying on the seed. Very sad indeed.

No boycott. Thank GOD! Whatevah would have become of me...

George, the patent was granted 5 years ago.
Cbad, thank you. azruss, thanks, I think.

Darryl, Honey, you maniac! There you go letting germination facts get in the way of germination legend...jeeze.

Gotta go, shipping 50 plants to San Diego today. Dang balmy California weather....

Peace Out,

Laurel Garza
Owner
heirloomtomatoplants.com
California

So, what does the patent mean?
That I can't grow them?
That I can't grow them from seeds I would save?
That I can't give them away or trade them?
That I can't sell them?
Just curious.
Thank You

Hello back at you, Laurel. And Merry Christmas and a sincere wish for a prosperous New Year.

While defending the accuracy of the unembellished history of Goose Creek tomato, maybe you can explain how a supposedly indigenous Caribbean tomato brought to the United States prior to 1863 has the same smooth shouldered, non-hollow appearance of tomatoes not developed by and available from professional breeders until after years after the Emancipation Proclamation.

Apparently Elouise Watson not only took great care to preserve this variety, but also devoted substantial effort toward improving its exterior and interior appearance to a degree well beyond what many professional breeders were uncapable of achieving. Well done, Elouise!

I'd also be very interested in which Caribbean island the tomato originated, as several of those islands are incapable of supporting a tomato crop until very recently due to certain climatic and soil conditions.

GOOSE CREEK TOMATO PATENT LINK http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2004/0226061.html

Here is a link that might be useful: PATENT

Is there anywhere to buy seeds for Goose Creeks?

The objective of a plant patent is to prevent the "sale" of any reproductive parts of the patented item by anyone except the patent holder and his agents. As far as I can tell, saving your own seed and growing your own plants is not prohibited.

Some growers consider Goose Creek to be good to very good while others are not impressed. I grow many varieties that I consider to be better than Goose Creek. The 'two stage' ripeing as mentioned in the patent is present in other varieties such as Marianna's Peace. Grow them side by side and watch what happens.

DarJones

Would you say that Lime Green Salad has "2-stage" ripening?

Jsvand5, I don't know of any commercial source for Goose Creek seeds, but two people listed Goose Creek in the 2008 Seed Savers Exchange Yearbook. If you aren't a member of SSE yet, this would be a very good time to join because the 2009 Yearbook is just now going to the printer and will be out in a month or two.

The Yearbook is a very good place to look for varieties that you can't find anywhere else, as many members list those for which they have enough seeds to offer.

Laurel, there was never any patent granted for Goose Creek, nor will there be. Jimmy Williams applied for a patent on November 11, 2004 but it was never granted. Goose Creek was not "invented" by Jimmy Williams, and as noted above, the stages of ripeness described for Goose Creek are not unique to Goose Creek. Jimmy Williams can apply for a patent if he wishes but he won't get one.

The United States Patent and Trademark Office has a public web page at http://patft.uspto.gov/ where anyone can look up patent applications as well as the patents that have been granted, and you will see that there is an application but it has NOT been granted. Anyone who wants to can go to the web page and verify this for themselves.

Here is a link that might be useful: 2008 SSE Yearbook

I think some of the annoyance about the possibly dubious history and about the potentially legally unenforceable attempts to patent the variety would not be an issue if this tomato actually tasted as good as the hype indicates. In my opinion, it does not, and to me that makes the hype/patent issue as attempts to create a mythology intended to sell a tomato that really is not that great.

"Cold can really damage tomatoes as I said above - that's how we get all the tasteless store-bought ones.

Oh sure....and it has nothing to do with the breeding of those hybrids for shipping and storing.

I thought someone had done a study recently on this and determined that refrigeration does nothing to affect the taste of tomatoes, but sorry too lazy to look it up.

Anthony,

I guess taste is in the eye of the beholder - - this year, Goose Creek turned out to be my FAVORITE tomato! I grew 32 varieties, and Goose Creek, followed by Ed's Millennium and Earl's Faux were my "Top 3". The plant was the most lush of all the varieties that I grew - it looked fern-like in foliage production:

{{gwi:1400075}}

Goose Creek are the 3 tomatoes on the single stem in the upper right, Ed's Millennium is just below them, and Big Beef are on the far right:

{{gwi:1400076}}

Raybo

Raybo: That picture says it all. Goose Creek is a wonderful tomato. I can hardly wait. Laurel, what a gracious lady you are. I appreciate all the hard work you and your family do (and always with a smile) I know you can't please everyone all the time, but you certainly do a great job. Please know I am ready to order my spring tomatoes. Thanks, Cbad

Ray those pics are great, would like to know what other varieties you grew this year. Weather was so wacky in Toronto in summer of 2008 that these may not have been great examples, and jury still out on whether neighbour's fruits were actually Goose Creek. Will see what saved seeds do next year. I just found they did not have a great texture or have much flavour.

In my garden, Cherokee Purple, Brandywine, Black Krim, Indian Stripe, Marianna's Peace, Green Giant, and a few unknown varieties from saved seeds all produced sweeter, more flavourful tomatoes with excellent texture, in spite of the horrible weather. However, neighbour watered differently and fertilized differently than I did, so maybe that had something to do with it. Big Zac produced loads of big tomatoes, but taste was forgettable compared to the others that I mentioned. Cherries/Currants did not have a great year either. Will report back on 'goose creek' again after 2009 season, and seems like many others have seeds for this now also, should be interesting to hear people's opinion.