rjinga, since no one else has stepped up yet, I will try. Seed from the green when ripe are no different from other tomato seed, basically. They should be saved the same way, and there are some threads on here that give very good and detailed information on saving seed. The most popular way nowdays is to ferment them, but while that is no doubt good and desirable, it is not absolutely necessary.

If you are talking about the ones that you stepped on and squashed, you have probably dipped the seed up in an attempt to save them. The main thing at this point is to get the gell and any foreign matter off them, clean them. You could rinse them throughly under a stream of luke warm water using a sieve or tea strainer. Then spread them out on coffee filters or paper plates to dry. Stir them around a little every day to keep them from sticking to each other or to the filter or plate.

I think that you can save seed from green tomatoes that have not fully ripened on the vine, I prefer to let mine ripen on the vine or on the counter inside. It may not make a whit of difference, that is just my personal preference. You can pick those with a blush of color and they will go ahead and ripen inside and you can save the seed from them.

I have linked below the results of a search on fermenting seed. You will find a lot of good information there. Just click on the link below.
Good luck with it, let us know how it goes.
Bill P.

Here is a link that might be useful: Info on saving seed.

Bill,
thank you very much! I have seen threads on how to get the seeds ready before, I just really didn't know if it mattered if they were not ripe tomatoes to start with....I'm going to try it, what is there to lose :) Thanks for responding.

I have seen threads on how to get the seeds ready before, I just really didn't know if it mattered if they were not ripe tomatoes to start with....I'm going to try it, what is there to lose :) Thanks for responding.

****

rj, saving seeds from green tomatoes, whether green when ripes or not is a problem unless there's at least a blush of color at that blossom end.

Those that you picked and took inside you can just let ripen up and ferment the seeds as Bill said.

But the ones you smushed in the garden I'm doubtful about trying to get viable seeds from them.

And there's the problem. Totally unripe green tomatoes do not have many or any viable seeds. I know of only one person who says he gets viable seeds from totally unripe fruits.

Carolyn

Agree. Generally, as with flowers, saving seed from unripened tomatoes is a waste of time and effort. The seeds just aren't sufficiently mature to germinate and if a few do they tend to die off quickly. It is a discussion that comes up frequently on the Saving Seed forum and there are comparative studies available on the web to review if interested.

Dave

so how do you know if they are viable or not? the seeds (picture attached) is from one that was partly squashed...these did have some color on them, that's why I picked them (before the freeze came, just in case)

Can you tell by how the seeds look? size? color? what tells you they are not viable?

I realize that it's hard to tell much of anything from this picture...but I had never actually taken the seeds from a tomatoe and was surprised by how many there were.
{{gwi:1398333}}

so how do you know if they are viable or not?

You can't tell by looking at the seed except perhaps under a high powered microscope where you might see the attached suspensor. The only real test would be to try germinating them.

That is why it is always recommended to only save seeds from well-ripened, even over-ripened, fruit. That way you know the seeds have fully developed to maturity and the embryo in the seeds are viable.

The seeds we all save for trades or to use again the next year is from well-ripened fruit - just like that you buy in packets. Seeds from un-ripened fruits contain undeveloped embryos.

Dave

Adter my seeds have dried thoroughly, I plant a sampling of them to see what percentage come up.

It looks like you have 48 seed there and that is more than you get in some seed packets. You could plant ten of them to get an easy estimate of what percentage are viable. You could do that soon, or wait and do it next spring, but in time to find out before you would normally count on them. That way if some come up, you would just have some seedlings that were a little ahead of the rest of them. I guess it just depends on how curious or impatient you are. ":^)

If you are unsure about starting seed, there are some good threads on the subject on here too. They need to be kept warm and I have had good success starting many of mine in the water heater closet.

As you can see, if they are viable, the other 38 seeds have the potential to grow enough seed to grow a truck load of tomatoes the next go round after that.
Bill P.

If you are unsure about starting seed, there are some good threads on the subject on here too. They need to be kept warm and I have had good success starting many of mine in the water heater closet.

*****

Rather than looking for threads I suggest you go to the top of this first page, click on the FAQ link and look for the excellent article, with pictures, that deals with how to start seeds.

There are some other FAQ's there that may also be of interest to you.

Carolyn

Once again, thanks for the info...you mater folks are so smart and so helpful!!! I will definitely start doing my homework and then do what you recommend...IF I can ever get my GH finished, I'll have the perfect place for some new tomatoe babies to live til spring....It will be fun to see what happens with them. I'd really NOT complain at all if I had a truckload of tomotoes...heck I'd settle for a trunk full, for that matter, even a few buckets full, so I could can some...last year my late planted tomatoes did so great until an early freeze hit...I ended up putting up 11 quarts....which is great for me...but IF I had known about this forum sooner, I probably would have had 25 quarts of GREEN tomatoe stuff....it's a constant learning process...but it's all very addictive. and so satisfying if you have a good yeild of whatever you are trying to grow.

" ... so how do you know if (tomato seeds) are viable or not?"

When they are fresh out of the tomato, fermented or otherwise separated from the gel and not yet dry, put them in a bowl of cool water. The ones that sink to the bottom have a higher likelihood of viability. The ones that float are pretty worthless.

After the seeds are dry, I would suggest you test germinate them as GoneFishin' has suggested. That's the surest way to get a good idea of anticipated germination rate when you plant them in 2008.

Bummer, I wish I'd known that trick sooner, but I've got more to experiment with...IF I can get them past all the freezes we have had...I have lost about 1/2 of my plants, even covered up with blankets and plastic...I guess some are just more cold hearty too...Fortunately, the ones that are surviving are the ones with all the tomatoes on them...they appear to be much healthier plants in general...makes sense now that I "typed" that outloud :)

Hoosier, have you kept any kind of stats on this water test? Just curious what % of successfull germination occured from the ones that sunk....

rjinga,

I don't really keep extensive stat logs, but I do ferment nearly all my tomato seeds as a rule. I did try a few other methods this year, but just out of curiosity. But whether fermented or otherwise scoured, I always finish up with a good rinsing in a bowl of water and save only the sinkers ... and I mean if a seed even comes up off the bottom at the last moment of pouring out the rinse water, off it goes down the drain with no regrets.

Another method I tried is soaking fresh squeezed seeds in a strainer covered with kitchen cleanser with bleach (Comet) for about a half hour then scrubbing them clean in the strainer followed by a wash off with anti-bacterial Dawn and a cool rinse in the bowl of water deal. I only saved the sinkers, and when tested, they sprouted at about 90 - 95%. But in that case, I was testing to see if the soak in Comet affected the sprout rate.

Also, I cleaned some seeds with Calgon automatic dishwasher detergent similarly to the Comet method described above. The Calgon has a high percentage of phosphates as well as bleach. Again, I only saved the sinkers from the rinse bowl and the test germination rate was above 90%.

Lastly, I always follow up with a Clorox bath for any tomato seeds I ferment by the regular process. Basically, I let the cleaned seeds soak for about 5 minutes in one part Clorox to 3 or 4 parts cool water. Then I thoroughly rinse them to get the bleach off to where I can barely smell it. On one particular batch of Cherokee Purple PL seeds that I was sending to Baker Creek for a grow-out, I test germinated 56 seeds and got 52 germinated within 7 days (46 or 48 in the first four days if I remember right).

But then I never saved any floaters or tried to sprout them, so all this is rather uncontrolled, unscientific and poorly documented ... so you can take it for what it's worth. Still, I suggest saving the sinkers and trashing the floaters.

I agree with hoosier. And I think this applies to pretty much all types of seeds. If they sink in a glass of water they are viable. Floaters aren't.

The only seeds I save are from my OP ancient chinese cukes. This "test" has proven to work well for many years.

so the method will only work with "wet" seeds? Before they are actually dried? is this correct?

Wet or dry seed. Doesn't matter. If it floats it isn't viable. Keep only sinkers.

Now, I rarely save tomato seeds. But I have fermented and dried on a paper plate and each methos worked equally well. The plate method is to spread the seeds out on a paper plate and put in a dry space. Don't worry about the jell sacs surrounding the seeds as they evaporate after two days. Use a butter knife to slide under the seeds after the plate is all dry. shake them around and put them on a new clean paper plate. Let them dry another day. THEN, throw them all into a glass of water. Sinkers are keepers and floaters are removed. Redry them on another paper plate a couple more days. When fully dried they are ready to be stored.

rjinga,

I don't know. I never had a reason to dump a batch of fully dried seeds into a bowl of water.

Wait a minute, yes I did. This year I saved a slew of F2 seeds from a particular cross breeding project and they were layered so thickly on the drying plate that they mildewed and I re-bathed them in Clorox water. And yes, most of them sank pretty quickly. I haven't test germinated them yet but I could do that and report back in a few weeks if I remember to do that ... I'm off this week to clean house for Thanksgiving and boy does the place need a work-over!

But I think the best thing for you to do is take 8 or 10 of those seeds from your plate and test germinate them right now. After all, this is about seeds from a green tomato and not about seeds from fully mature tomatoes such as the ones I saved.

Fold your test seeds up in a paper towel. Dampen the paper towel thoroughly. Mash it out gently to expel the excess water, but make sure it's still completely damp ... just not sodden. Lock it up in a Ziploc baggie. Lay it on top of your refrigerator. Check it every three or four days for sprouts. If the towel needs a few more drops of water when you check it, sprinkle on some hand-warm water and lock it back in the Ziploc.

rj, the reason that the floaters are usually non-viable and sinkers are usually viable is b/c of the different density of the two types of seeds.

Look at the ones that float and compare them to the sinkers. You'll see that the floaters are often mishapen as well as not being, usually, as large as the sinkers, and they often look kinda wispy and drawn out. Floaters have a well formed endosperm, that's the part of the seed that's important for energy in order to germinate and grow until leaves appear and then photosynthesis can take over. Floaters just do not have much, if any, endosperm within the seed.

That isn't to say that ALL sinkers are viable, but the majority of them are. And it isn't to say that ALL floaters are non-viable, but it's a relaibe enough method to be used routinely.

When I'm doing fermentations, at the end of that process I swirl the contents, add some water, swirl, pour out the majority of the crud, add more water, and keep doing this until the water added after swirling is clear and the seeds are at the bottom of the fermentation container. In the process of adding water and swirling, several times, the floaters just naturally are decanted leaving behind the sinkers.

Carolyn

I think that in the process of fermenting the seed, I get rid of the vast majority of the floaters when the scum and other material is removed from the jar and any remainders when I spray water into the jar and stir them vigorously before pouring the top part off prior to pouring them into the tea strainer. One thing that helps confirm this is that I almost always get a high percentage of viable seed that sprout and come up.

As far as that goes, I had very satisfactory success way back when I just dipped the seed out of a ripe tomato onto a paper towel and dried them, but they stuck so bad that it was easy to move a better method when I learned of it.

One year, I was able to scrape many of the seed off the paper towel, but wound up cutting some little parts of it into strips and planted those strips with the seed on them like a seed strip. That worked O.K. and they came up, just too close together. The paper towel seemed to disintegrate and disappear in the ground.
Bill P.