Futher more what I don't understand is how a person can do these things intentionally. I may sound like I'm coming off wrong. but that's not the case. And I really don't like complaining and I understand that kids need to play were they live. Yet there is a park right down the street and i have yet to see her even attempt to take any action to get her kids outside to play and tire them out. Which my parents did When I was little, Which i did when I watched my 6 cousins since the time they were 2yrs old. "She claims she has a job" I have yet to see her leave the apt for more then 15 mins. I'm here 24/7 ok, I can't work, wouldnt even be possible for me to work. My heart wouldnt be able to handle it. And I am on SSI which is how I help my mother pay rent and food shop. But since my husband has lost his job, we've been falling behind on bills and rent. Everything that is happening has been making me severly depressed, to the point were I've broke down in tears in the middle of a grocery store. You know. I'm 25 yrs old and its hard to live with parents while your married.. We argue alot now and we never have. and its really tearing me apart. Thanks for reading this even though It's long :(

I feel for you. Your neighbor sounds EXACTLY like a woman that lived above my parents for about a year. Are you in IL?

My parents complained to the property manager many many times. The police were called many many nights. Have you called the police during the evening (after 10pm). Most leases have a noise policy (between the hours of 10pm-8am). My parent's eventually moved. While I realize that may not be an option at the moment..keep it in mind.

Also this "truce" business? What is THAT about?? I'm no expert but that sounds shady. Have you reviewed tenants rights in your state?

I live in Norristown Pa, And I can't really call the cops technically I can. but the thing is.. How would they go up to the second floor? The downstairs door is always locked and thats the only way up there, and right now, I seriously doubt that if i call the cops and then called the landlord to open the downstairs he would either evict my family and I and we'd be on the street. or not do it at all... And there is a noise policy in our lease. Noise violation is after 10:30p, and I've constantly told the landlord of this that it is after 10:30 that it honestly starts at 1 am in the morning. I would love to move trust me and I am keeping it in mind. So is my mother but our finacial situation just isnt letting us. She has 43 months on her car loan left to pay off before she can even get her credit back up, for us to buy/rent another place. Yeah sucks to heck and back. And this Truce crap is shady I agree, from my point of view in order to have a truce in any situation is talking to the other person. Which hasn't happened since that day. Since that day it has become more redundent with the noise. And now not only is she doing the bangs thuds and pounding she starts her car at 6 am and blasts her radio. Which is rediculous, and the next door neighbor has called the police for that but the time they get there she's gone and back 20mins later. >_The only logical thing I can honestly think of atm is going to the landlord association and complain. but the outcome I'm scared of is, again Eviction same with taking it futher and going full blown to court. My Mom just saying bare with this until the 1st of the year and hopefully everything will work out.. But I honestly dont know how much more I can take.

As for the tenants rights I am going to look that up for my state thats one thing that slipt my mind while surfing for answers about complaing about the landlords.

Side note, The day I tried to talk to her, and this is funny. The downstairs door was unlocked and she heard me coming up the steps and Funny thing is She told her kid to shush and they were quite I knocked on her door, and yeah nothing and I said I know your there I heard you. And I will be waiting all day if i have to outside for you to talk to you. And I did. And yeah basically she blew up at me and etc. Just funny thing on how she is a little fluffy bunny when she's cornered in her home. and when she's not cornered she's a Jackle. The only thing I could ask her when she arrived out side is, Why do you let your kids bang on the floor and she's like I'm not going to move my kids from end of the house to another.. --_-- That wasn't even my question. She's seriously a crazy person! She just totally went from there yelling at the top of her lungs with the 1yr old in her arms... I'm sorry but for me to see that scene and her holding the kid.. No respectful right minded parent would start an arguement while holding their kid. Specially when all I did was ask a simple question.

hmm. About the cops not being able to get in, is there a front entrance? Is this a complex? They normally find a way in.

If you do call the police or talk to the landlord association, why would you fear eviction? (I'm sorry, maybe you've stated why..just a little fuzzy on that statement).

You probably won't like what I have to say.

First, I'm very sorry for the health & financial problems, both can be extremely taxing, imagine neighbor problems don't help the stress at all.

Secondly, I'm a LL, not a lawyer.

I read all your posts and one thing immediately jumped out at me: your second post where you mention you're getting behind in bills and rent. That right there is putting you in a position where you won't have a lot of leverage with LL. So if he's sick of the feuding and threatening to evict someone, further complaining on your part might find you on the wrong end of that situation.

I'm sure that sounds harsh but it's not meant to, I'm just trying to separate the black and white from the emotions that are running high.

So if it's at all possible, I'd encourage you to do whatever you can to get your rent caught up and keep it caught up. That takes away a good piece of ammo that your LL would have. Because once that's removed, based on what you've posted, if you're not damaging the place or breaking your lease in other areas he's not really got grounds to evict. He's got to have something to convey to a judge as to why you should be removed from your home, and imho having issues with the neighbor really doesn't cut it.

OK, onto something else I caught. It's about the trash. If I understand correctly you have some kind of specified trash receptacle area, your lulu upstairs neighbor puts her trash there but then fails to take hers to the curb for pickup so your dad does it? If that is correct, then your father needs to stop taking her garbage to the curb. And never touch it again. Because that is something that your LL can clearly see as a failing on her part, and she's not only fouling up the place but inviting critters. Seriously, let her stuff sit there and rot. In summer heat it won't take long. Won't be pleasant, but it's not your worry, it's her responsibility.

Then when it gets bad enough, if your LL hasn't caught it find an opportunity to mention it casually in passing, so it doesn't come across as another complaint. Or better yet, if he's on sight frequently or lives on the premises he'll catch it himself. Far better he catch her than you report her. But if the only way he sees it is if you do an 'oh, by the way' comment, if he then asks why you haven't dealt with it as usual, just say your father's health is not the best, he's to stop any extra exertion, and it being her garbage and all... LL can't fault you for not taking your neighbor's trash to the curb. I was going to suggest calling Health Dept or probably better town Code Enforcer if she lets trash accumulate, but it might be best not to go that far. Let your LL see how she really is.

This is a house/apt there's only one way to the upstairs, it's in the back. And Yes I stated about why I am afraid to call. The bit about the truce shady part, and that we're late on rent.

Moonshadow- I thank you for your input, When I ment late on rent I ment 2 weeks late and We pay him My mom and I the rent with the late fee. I know where your coming from And I do see that as a problem for eviction. That's why I'm saying fear of eviction.
As for the trash recepticles. There's 4 cans and 1 recycling bin. The LL said it's everyone's job to take it down to the curb and up again. However The LL knows she doesn't take it down or bring it up, plus I tried to tell my father and husband to leave it there, but their not listening to me, they always give me the answer of, We have to or no one else does it, and like you said they don't want little critters again...
Not Only did my family complain bout the trash the third floor did as well.
The LL is never really here on the premisses, When he is he stays for an hr to do yard work then leaves.
As for damages, We've done none nor Violated our lease..
Sorry if I'm not really clear on alot of things, I'm on 1-3 hrs a sleep not really functionable.
Any way, Damages Done to this apt we're being fixed but then stopped. this was 3yrs ago, and he stated this summer he'd be around alot to do the repairs, but it has yet to happen. Now in the Pa Tenant rights it states, that the LL should be doing repairs in an Understandable time limit. And I consider 3yrs not understandable, Even though we keep telling him and reminding him Politetly of course. I understand the economy is bad right now but he has two other places "Apparently" and he claims not to have the money. Is this possible?

This question is for you moonshadow. Is it possible not to have enough money even though, he claims to have this place and two others? And With that being asked

Could I go to the board of Health with pictures of the Damages that havent been repaired with out fear of Eviction?

Thanks for your input And we'll try harder to keep rent up to date so that can be knocked off as ammo.

OK, well two weeks late on rent is not horrible. I wouldn't beat yourself up over it. But I wouldn't get comfortable with it either. If you can come up with the full rent plus late fee, it's far better to get things juggled around so that you're back on track & rent is always on time again. And saving yourself that late fee, depending on how much it is, would pay part or all of a phone or water bill, buy a tank of gas, etc. Those late fees add up so you're actually paying higher rent. It probably sounds like goofy advice, but if push comes to shove, pay a smaller bill late one month (but only one month) so you can get back on track. Like the phone or water bill. They won't shut your water or phone off if only one month late. Keep a roof over your heads first, let all else come second. Then when back on track it would put you in a better negotiating position.

As for the trash recepticles. There's 4 cans and 1 recycling bin. The LL said it's everyone's job to take it down to the curb and up again.

The more I read the less I like about this situation and here's why (and it's just my impression, please don't take it as gospel). First, you've got a genuinely disruptive situation with a neighbor upstairs and your LL tosses out threat of eviction if you two don't quit quibbling. It's just not cool to threaten to yank someone out of their house unless there are genuine, serious lease infractions that can be proved in court. I don't know for sure because I'm not there and don't see/know all the facts, but it almost sounds like bullying on his part. Get on track with your rent, continue to abide by your lease, and don't let yourself be bullied. You have rights here as well. If he says it's "everyone's" responsibility to take care of the trash - perfect. So we can also interpret that your LL never said, or wrote down, that your father is responsible for taking other unit's trash to the curb. So tell Dad to knock if off. I know it sounds trite, but this girl is running all over you guys and she knows it. Stand up for yourselves! Get together with unit #3 that also complained if you can, let them know you're taking out your garbage and nothing more. Ask if they will take out theirs, and let that girl in #2 deal with consequences of not managing her own mess.

Honestly, it just comes across like your LL treating you all like kids on a playground. Yes, everyone needs to get along. But it goes a lot deeper than that. We're not talking about play time and everyone gets to go home when it's over. We're talking about the place that you eat and sleep and call home, and you've got a right to some peace and quiet. And you are not your neighbor's slave and do not have to do garbage detail for them.

As for damages, We've done none nor Violated our lease..
... Damages Done to this apt we're being fixed but then stopped. this was 3yrs ago, and he stated this summer he'd be around alot to do the repairs, but it has yet to happen.

Can you be very specific about that? I get that you haven't done any damage, but what kinds of repairs are you talking about?

I copied this from your first post above: As for the repair problems, The windows need to be replaced badly he's saying he'll do it but it's been 4 yrs now and nothing. The kitchen cabinets are dead and need fixing or replacing. not getting done. Bedroom door is coming apart. The bathroom tile needs to be replaced. I think it also might have mold behind the wall. I mean hell this apt has been falling apart befor we even moved in.

What precisely is wrong with the windows? Old, leak, broken?
What does "dead" kitchen cabinets mean? Teasing you here for a little levity, but I just don't get "dead" cabinets. ;D

Bedroom door coming apart: is it split, coming off the hinges?
What exactly is wrong with bathroom tile? Cracked? Allowing leaks for mold? Just plain ugly?

Do you feel safe linking to photos?

If you can be much more specific about exactly what kinds of issues these are, especially when you are talking about going to Board of Health, it would help. (Tho it sounds like a Code or Town Building inspector issue more than Board of Health, but without specifics it's hard to say.)

I understand the economy is bad right now but he has two other places "Apparently" and he claims not to have the money. Is this possible?...This question is for you moonshadow. Is it possible not to have enough money even though, he claims to have this place and two others?

Well, sure, about anything is possible. Depends on what he's doing with the $. He's human. He could be irresponsible, could have a problem and is gambling it all away. (I heard from an applicant once that they lost the house they were in because owner gambled her own + rent money away, so rental house + her own home were repossessed because she failed to pay mortgage and taxes.) Or he could be responsible and he's gotten walloped by the system. Maybe he's got properties financed and mortgage hit balloon period and payments went sky high. Or (as happened in our County) the way property taxes were assessed underwent major restructuring. Some areas of the County property taxes quadrupled. It was like a punch in the gut for everyone who owned any kind of real estate because of stupidity and local gov't saying "oops, our bad". A lot of people lost their own homes over it, and this was several years back when economy was booming. We have several properties and the taxes went so high instead of paying 2 installments per year I was paying 4, and that went on for 3 years. Still, I made sure I budgeted so I had enough to pay taxes, insurance and repairs expenses plus extra if something big happened like a roof replacement, but during that time none of it went in our pockets. There just wasn't any left. (Plus, like every LL in the County, I had to raise rents to cover that tax mess or we would have gone belly up. So renters were impacted in my area as well. Everyone suffered.)

I guess what I'm saying is anything is possible. But a responsible LL will budget his $, make sure there is enough for expenses/repairs, and charge rents accordingly to cover all that.

It's no secret how many properties your LL owns (it will be on record with your County and is public info, accessible online at your County's site or via Assessor or Recorder's office.) But please don't assume that if he owns multiple properties he's rolling in dough. I can assure you, I get that a lot and it just ain't necessarily so.

Still, it matters with respect to the laws and what is required of him to keep your home safe and habitable, so that's what we'll stay focused on. ;-)

So if you can elaborate on conditions you're living in, that would help.

"laughing" First time in a year i had a laugh. Thanks for that. The window's are cracked around the edges, where small bugs can get through and my room window won't stay open with out it being propped on something, The windows also shake when she walks, I feel like they might break or shatter or something when it happens. When the windows are shut, it sounds like they are opened and noise can be heard loud and clear from the outside... The one bedroom door, I dont want to call it a "real-door".. It's coming apart the inside parts are falling out through the bottom, it doesn't shut right and when you do shut it.. It sticks, reminds me of my old place make shift door. The kitchen cabinets oie, my god the noise it makes when you open the one horrible ear wrenching. its track is broken, and the other track is bent the top cabinets well they shut but pop open when she walks around which i doubt is suppose to happen, And while I was cleaning this morning I noticed a hole above the cabinets on the wall not a big hole. The bathroom tiles are coming off I'm too afraid to take one off and see if there's mold.. But I might have too... In my room there is a big heater against the wall, I noticed a Hole or damage behind there. I told him about it, he said he'll have some one out here before winter to check it. but that was a yr ago. And they never came or he never got anyone... There is cracks forming in the cieling, and I don't want to say it's because of the Upstairs... It might just be this place is just falling apart.

As for the photo's I would have to go back to the store and get a Photo cd, but I will link the photo's when I can. The trash cans, the third floor takes the cans back up but he does agree with me it's her turn. And I know she'll never do it, I am going to write the third floor and see if he'll agree with taking it down but he has been very helpful, So i'm not really worried bout his answer. Yes I know I am being bullied He has never done this before Until she moved in a year ago so I really don't know. The only thing that I got from the landlord is that it's one of his Old High school students.. Special treatment maybe?

And as for him being kinda broke, I know landlords aren't loaded with dough... I wouldn't expect them to be richy rich, But I would expect them to be responsible with the cash, like you've said... And God I hope he isn't gambling it away, Big No-No in my book. Yet Sometime's I just want to ask, What is he doing with our money besides from paying prop taxes. Because it sure isn't going into repairs.
As for being late on rent, I had a talk with my mother, she said will be caught up this month so apparently we did miss 1 month. She said thats the month we missed when she was in the hospital for her knee surgery. I wasn't here then I was living with my husband and his mother, Until she moved to texas, and would have moved with her, Yet to me helping my mom was more important and my husband understood... Also didn't realize she also made an aggreement to pay late fee's to make up for it. Nice of her not to tell me lol... It probably just slipped her mind, Understandable with everything else that is needing to be paid.

Ok I'm going to see about that photo cd, and try and post it.

OK, I'm still here but this is off the top of my head because I have to run out for a bit.

I would suggest as far as photos not to post pictures directly in this thread. Better to post a link to them (so you can take photos down later and also posting photos in actual threads they technically become property of Garden Web. Well, there's a big debate been going on about that, but I still think linking to a photo site would be best.) Or email me if you like (click on my ID).
But other LLs do pop in from time to time here, their input could be helpful as well.

I hate to tell you this, but it looks like your only option is to move. Believe me, I know what hell you're going through. The place I moved out of about a month ago was just as bad & I was having the same exact problems with my upstairs neighbors that you are having. I tried talking to them, talking to the property manager & even the police. Nothing was done & my family was suffering from the loud noises 24/7. These people literally NEVER shut up & rarely left their apartment! They had about 10 ppl living up there, most of them kids under the age of 3. They hardly ever slept & we heard loud pounding, banging, screaming, stomping & hammering noises at all hours of the night. The little kids were allowed to stay up as long as they wanted & the parents didn't watch them or care what they did. I got woken up all the time, even with ear plugs in my ears! I put up with that crap for almost a year & I finally got out of there. I really couldn't afford to move & wasn't working at the time but I managed. Where there's a will there's a way! The only way you are going to resolve your situation is to move. It sounds like the property owner is getting fed up with the fighting going on & that's not a good thing. He can throw all of you out if he gets mad enough then what would you & your family do? Do yourself a favor & start looking for a place.

Oh...more noise making losers on the upper again? I feel your misery as well. I recommend moving if possible, for keeping sanity. Try a upper, or a rental house. If you try a upper, your gonna need helpers. I just got out of that crappy apartment living in july.

Bossladyd, a few things you didn't say here.

How many bedrooms are there in the apartment?
How many people are allowed to live there according to the lease.

Your rent is paid by 3 adults collecting government benefits and a husband who supposedly " lost his job due to sleep depravation"

If I were your landlord I would evict you BECAUSE you said

"Side note, The day I tried to talk to her, and this is funny. The downstairs door was unlocked and she heard me coming up the steps and Funny thing is She told her kid to shush and they were quite I knocked on her door, and yeah nothing and I said I know your there I heard you. And I will be waiting all day if i have to outside for you to talk to you. And I did. And yeah basically she blew up at me and etc. Just funny thing on how she is a little fluffy bunny when she's cornered in her home. and when she's not cornered she's a Jackle. The only thing I could ask her when she arrived out side is, Why do you let your kids bang on the floor and she's like I'm not going to move my kids from end of the house to another.. --_-- That wasn't even my question. She's seriously a crazy person! She just totally went from there yelling at the top of her lungs with the 1yr old in her arms... I'm sorry but for me to see that scene and her holding the kid.. No respectful right minded parent would start an arguement while holding their kid. Specially when all I did was ask a simple question."

You layed in wait like a stalker to confront her to "ask a simple question."? I can only imagine that she started yelling with her 1 year old in her arms because she was afraid of the nuts stalker neighbor.

You only say here what you think makes you looks good. From what you said I feel sorry for your neighbor.

Gammyt: there's no reason for you to be that nasty to the person who created this thread! She's already going through a hard enough time from the sound of it, so she sure doesn't need your hate filled, negative comments to bring her down even further. I know what hell she's going through since I've had the same type of nasty, ignorant upstairs neighbors that she does. They can make the life of their downstairs neighbors a living hell if they choose to! Sounds like you've never been in this situation so you have no idea how to even offer her advice then! If you don't have anything nice to say then don't say anything at all!