How about Evergreen and Green Zebra? If you only want to try one, I think I'd go for Aunt Ruby's German Green. Of course several people here can tell you that I have alot of trouble growing tomatoes and getting ripe ones just didn't happen last season. But I would like to try growing Green Zebra just for the look.

I've grown lots of green when ripes and my faves are:

Cherokee Green
Green Giant
Evergreen
Dorothy's Green

Green Doctors, a cherry

......for starters.

Green Zebra for me is too tart although many find it to be sweet and Aunt Ruby's German Green I find too soft and perishable altho the taste is just fine.

There are many more I could list, but maybe if you start out with Cherokee Green, Green Giant and Green Doctors you could try others in future years.

Carolyn

Ooh, a green cherry! Where can I find that? A quick search on Google doesn't yield much...

Lori

Green grape is a green when ripe cherry tomato that I know of.

Aunt Ruby's German Green I find too soft and perishable altho the taste is just fine...
Yes that is similar to my experience with ARGG.

Now Lori, you may wanna check out Spears Tennessee Green. It is available from Baker Creek. Similar to Cherokee Green but a bit smaller... they really could be the same cult. I see it is out of stock now but I have a few seeds that I could get to you... an activity much to the chagrin of Carolyn.

And Lori, were I you I would be circumspect on Green Zebra... very prone to BER in the 2 seasons that I grew it.

Now Carolyn, where can I get a few seed of Green Doctors ? Maybe you could mail be 10 or so GD seeds from your private stock and thus go against your advice on private seed exchanges. I am not afraid to buy it if I can get a source.

Reg

The source I know of for Green Doctors is Sandhillpreservation.com but note when they do and do not take orders you send in. And I sent it to them.

Aha, I just forgot that Mike at Victory Seeds is also going to be offering it for 2009 ( see the new for 2009 varieties but not yet incorporated as a single listing, and he's offering several others that I sent him for trial in the Spring as well) and I sent him the seeds as well.

I find Green Doctors to be superior to Green Grape as do many of us who have grown it; it was first listed in the SSE YEarbook just 1-2 years ago. It's a spontaneous mutant of the variety Dr. Carolyn and even tho that's true and the variety name also reflects me and the person in whose garden this appears and that person named it, I'm also glad to tell you that Green Doctors is a popular trout fly. LOL

Carolyn, who notes to Reginald that if I offered to send seeds of many varieties asked for in posts it wouldn't work out. I read and post at four different sites and for years did seed offers here at GW with over 300 varieties offered but now I do my seed offers elsewhere and I won't be offering Green Doctors anyway b'c I have so few seeds. ( smile)

"...are they a "love it or hate it" thing?"

Not at all, if you close your eyes you can't tell that they are a green variety. You have to love or hate them on an individual basis.

Thanks Carolyn for posting about the green doctors & where to get it! I was very interested when I read this info, cause we love the color of green tomatoes & the kids LOVE cherry tomatoes! Thanks for the info!

Spear's Tennessee Green is a fantastic variety and has
compared well against the best loved tomatoes. (It won the
best tasting at Tomatopalooza[tm] VI this past July!)

It has a sweet fruity taste which feels bright on the pallet. Somewhat like a juicy melon. Very yummy!

Lee

Reginald,

I emailed you!

Carolyn,

I have noticed you're not too fond of private seed exchange, but not sure why... do you have a link to another thread where you've talked about it? I am really excited to try producing my own seed next year, and hope to bag and ferment properly so as to offer pure, healthy seed. Does that answer your objections? And what are your thoughts on saving seeds of plants other than tomatoes? Obviously you know what you're talking about, so I'd love to know...

So many generous traders are helping me get going with my veggie garden, that I'd like to be able to "pass on" the favor next year!

Lori

Lori, I'll answer your above post later b'c I don'thave time right now. ( smile)

Carolyn

I don't think it's a love/hate thing - you just have to find the right one.

I've not cared for GWR tomatoes in the past.

I don't know where Ananas Noire would fall in the category of color. Picture:
{{gwi:430507}}
Sliced:

I guess it would be more of a bicolor... ? But the interior is clearly GREEN. Anyway, I think this was the best tasting beauty in my 2008 garden. And I've never been a fan of GWR.

Now another top 5-6 of my garden in 2008 was this GWR:
{{gwi:430518}}

OMG, was this a delicious tomato!!! Recommend it highly.

Comment on sharing: I actually understand Carolyn's reluctance on sharing seed - I'm sure she's looking at purity of seed - but also trying to keep seed companies in business (bigger picture) I do think sharing seed does have it's place when seed is not available commercially OR if you are reluctant to buy 20 seeds when you really only need 5 or 6 to TRY it. I would have never tried either of the above if someone hadn't shared seed with me. B/C I'm NOT a GWR fan - or I wasn't a fan - someone shared them with me and changed my mind. I will be buying Anana's Noire in 2009. And I will share with anyone who is reluctant to buy it because it was just wonderful!!! :)

I can understand wanting to keep seed companies in business! But there are plenty of people (like my dad) who would say seed trading isn't worth the time and effort--too much uncertainty (will the seed come true?) and time involved (he always figures his "hourly pay rate" when deciding whether to spend time on something).

But for a new gardener like me, with a young family, just having moved into our first house (with NO landscaping to speak of), it's either trade or go without! I am trying to grow enough to keep my family in a good variety of veggies year-round, and buying that much seed is just too much money for me to come up with up front. And it's a fun hobby, so I don't mind the time spent.

I guess to me, seed-trading is kind of like tag-saling... and in my opinion, tag sales will never put Walmart out of business! =P

Lori

My interest in GWR tomatoes is due to them falling off my pests 'radar'. Sometimes stink bugs and Harlequin beetles get into my red tomatoes, never had a problem with the greens, and they can be quite delicious. We had a good tomato year in 07 and after tasting a few we found Aunt Ruby's German Green to be very very good. Another green we tried was a long, stripped yellow and green when ripe, called green sausage. I do not think I will grow green sausage again, however, it is a very good pickling tomato (this is what we ended up doing with it). In any case, if you are looking for a pickling tomato I recommend that one, but pickling tomatoes is not so much part of either of our culinary heritage so we will skip it next time. I have to say the green sausage was really productive, but ARGG was not (in my climate).

I would like to try a green tomato that tastes like ARGG but is more productive. I am still looking.

My issue with buying seed from commercial suppliers is that I have purchased outside my area and they have done very badly for me, so it was a waste of money. When I trade, at least it did not cost that much, just a stamp, and i doubt I can do much worse than my experiences with commercial seed suppliers. However, recently (while reading this forum) I learned of a place in central California, not exactly my area but perhaps better adapted, so if I purchase seeds commercially I will try them.

Lori, while I was watching the final WTA tennis session of the year from Doha, Quatar, ( I'm a tennis nut), I think Gary has accurately summed up my position.

Of course bagging blossoms is best for seed purity but unbagged blossoms can also work well if the person doing it knows what their crossing rate is. I've listed over 400 varieties in the SSE Yearbooks starting back in about 1990 from my saved unbagged seed and know of less than 10 that were crossed.

But as Gary said, my comcern is a much larger one in terms of supporting those smaller companies that preserve and offer so many varieties for us. And since I know the owners of quite a few of them I know these are rough times.

It's true that all of us who post online learn about varieties that are great but not yet available commercially but I could list just a few seed companies with reasonable prices, which I did yesterday here, where there are several thousands of varieties listed.

If a person is just starting out with heirlooms I'd prefer to see them grow those varieties available commercially that many folks here have mentioned in past threads so that they really understand that it's crucial to know what to expect of a variety so that you can rogue it out and not save seeds from it if it's wrong.

That means knowing plant habit, Ind or Det, fruit color and size and shape and weight and leaf form.

I've been posting online about tomatoes since about 1989 and have seen far more wrong varieties that have been traded than wrong varieties one might get from reputable commercial sources altho no commercial place is perfect when it comes to OP varieties. IF the person can grow only a few varieties then that's bad, but for those who grow lots of varieties such wrong varieties that are the result of crosses often present a challenge.

Now please don't take this personally, but I also feel if someone is sitting in front of a not cheap computer and all the accesories and pays money for internet access that the cost of good seeds of many varieties should not be a major barrier money-wise.

All I'm asking is that folks consider buying maybe half their seeds commercially from the good places and then trade if they wish otherwise.

I trade seeds with just a few oldtime friends in that I send them the best of my trials for a given year and they do the same. And if someone sends me a new variety not known outside of a family I also offer several varieties in return.

I also don't think it's so bad if folks see a new variety mentioned online that appeals to them to ask about a commercial source first, as happened above.

A few years ago I stopped listing my new varieties at most places where I post b'c there followed posts with....can you send me seeds, I've gotta have it and on and on. And quite honestly that bothered me.

I make seed offers, there are seed offers in the Tomato Exchange here at GW and while I've offered over 300 varieties in the past here I now...

I guess I asked for it, quite literally, didn't I Carolyn.......

I won't get into my budget in detail on here as that really doesn't belong on the Growing Tomatoes forum, lol! But suffice it to say that if I was not trading, I would be spending the same amount as I do now for postage, buying run-of-the-mill vegetable varieties at Home Depot. I do not have the money to spare to buy from all those enticing rare-seed mail order companies online. I would personally rather try new and interesting varieties for that money, especially when they're heirlooms that allow me to save my seed!

And you know what, trading has me excited enough about heirlooms that chances are I'll still be spending my Christmas money on seed orders. (Well, maybe next year... this year is already promised to fencing and garden supplies... =) )

Lori

I guess I asked for it, quite literally, didn't I Carolyn.......

******

Ummm,er, the way I see it you asked me for my opinion and so that's what I gave back to you.

I'm sorry if you didn't like perhaps some of what I wrote, but it was my opinion. ( smile)

Yeah I know, that's why I said what I did... I really did ask for it! So I can't complain about what I got! lol

Lori

I just ordered two packets of Cherokee green tomato seeds from Victory seeds. Thanks to all of you for all the information! (ediej it was great that you also compared taste and yield!). They had a minimum shipping rate that was a lot more than the seeds, so I ended up ordering several seeds for other vegetables (other than tomatoes) that looked really good and are hard to find. Some of them will be sowed as soon as they arrive.

I will do my best to keep good seeds companies in business, but I also plan to continue trading as well, or even offering seeds for SASE if I have too much!

Carolyn, the information you share here is priceless to many of us, seed we can easily buy online. Not to say that seed is not valuable as well!

I'd recommend

• Cherokee Green

• Green Giant

• Grub's Mystery Green

not necessarily in that order

Most greens I have tried are bland and a waste of space, kind of like white tomatoes. The Spear's I had was grown on drip tape so it likely influenced the flavor (made it more bland). Ive tried AuntRuby'sGG several times. It has always bland in addition to its other issues.

If you want a GOOD cherry stick to 'Green Grape'. Even the determinate versions are superior to 'Doctor's Green'. DG had a medicinal like astringent aftertaste - like alum. The taste also reminded of the species tomatoes L. hirsutum or L pennellii. I guess some might like that but I'd suggest spending money at Sandhill on something worth it.

If you really want seed Vik I can send you some seed.

spiced_ham, I can taste the difference.

Interesting no one mentioned Lime Green Salad. Has its hype worn off? Some of the tart (not bland) GWR like that may have their place in cooking - such as a nice citrusy foil (w/shrimp) or for sauces.

Carolyn,

I realized looking back at my first response to your post that you may have read sarcasm or a bad attitude where none was intended...

I certainly meant no disrespect... in the little time I have been on Gardenweb forums I have seen your helpful advice everywhere, and it is most appreciated!

Lori

Grub's Mystery Green...I done GMG pot-leaf version in 2007 season. Rather disappointing. Ripes very similar to ARGG in most aspects, but with even more parsimonious production. If course one season don't make no definitive statement on a tomato variety.

But I will stick with Cherokee Green and Green Giant and Spears next time because those have been successes for me. Also tried Emerald Evergreen for one season. It was a bust that time. But I may reprise EE in 2009 season. Never say never.

I suspect that good results (esp for heirloom tom cults) are rather highly dependent on 'perfect storm' environmental conditions during any given growing season.

Hybrid tom varieties are less susceptible to vagarities in weather and soil, etc. That is why, even if one be a diehard heirloom tomato enthusiast, one should plant some hybrid cults if one haves the space.

Reg

I realized looking back at my first response to your post that you may have read sarcasm or a bad attitude where none was intended...

I certainly meant no disrespect... in the little time I have been on Gardenweb forums I have seen your helpful advice everywhere, and it is most appreciated!

Lori

*****

Not a problem at all Lori.

Remember I'm a retired teacher and I've heard it all, and more. LOL

When asked I do speak my mind and don't hold back and some appreciate that and some don't. I Can't please everyone all the time. ( smile)

Carolyn

I just want to put in my $.02 for Green Zebra. I think this is a great tomato. It's taste is much different than ARGG(which I also like) and I have gotten excellent production from it, and NO BER in my garden. IME it also holds quite well. It is typically the last tomato of the season for me.
I also tried GMG and Green Grape. GMG was pretty good, but I like the taste of ARGG better. The tomatoes were nowhere near as tender as ARGG and kept much longer, production was about the same.
Green Grape. I had good(in fact, great) late production, but I couldn't stand the taste. Mine seemed to be determinate, but put on another impressive spurt of growth towards the end of the season. Mine were from Pinetree Gardens. If there is an indeterminate, is the taste better?
JMO,
Tom

Green Grape. I had good(in fact, great) late production, but I couldn't stand the taste. Mine seemed to be determinate, but put on another impressive spurt of growth towards the end of the season. Mine were from Pinetree Gardens. If there is an indeterminate, is the taste better?
JMO,
Tom

*****

Tom, the problem with Green Grape for some of us is that the indet goes to det all by itself. And Tom Wagner, the breeder of GG, knows all about it. I've had it happem three times now from indet to det.

And I do agree that the taste of the indet, as shown in my book, is better than the det. I don't know what's going on and nor does Tom, from whom I got two indet plants when I was in Pasadena for an heirloom event and he drove down to Pasadena from Bakersfield where he was then living to the same event and also brought those plants which I coddled on the plane back East.

But I still say that Green Doctors is much more tasty than any GG I've ever grown.

For me Green Zebra doesn't do it.....too agressive, shall I say, taste-wise, but I do know that for many it's sweet and lucious, but not for me.

Carolyn

Tags sales will never put Walmart out of business - and
thankfully seed suppliers are not Walmart! I think on the
most part we're talking Mom & Pop seed suppliers. I DO
boycott a few seed suppliers one in particular coming to mind
starts with a B and ends in an E...

I always try and keep in mind where my 'things' come from.
I'd much rather buy my things from Mom & Pop than some huge
company in it for the $$. Have we had this conversation b4?
Hmmm. I think we did.
Anyway, does that mean that I don't share seed
or accept 'freebies'? No. But it does mean that I DO buy
seed - and I am careful where I buy my seed. I'm still the
person that wants to buy my plants from a nursery rather than
Home Depot - but it doesn't mean that if I find something
for a good price I don't pick it up either. I just try and
be mindful of it.

Yeah, I thought about that Walmart thing after I posted it ;) Not a very good choice of comparison.

I am actually one of the first in my group of friends to want to skip Home Depot and go to the local garden center... not only do I like to support the small local businesses, but they tend to have a better selection. And I do tend to feel the same way about seed companies.

Unfortunately, our budget at the moment is so stretched that I am looking for everywhere I can to save my pennies, especially with so much to do in my still-getting-established gardens next year. In future years, when we have those basics like deer fencing and garden tools out of the way, I will hopefully have some cash free to spend at those enticing seed companies online!

Lori

I love green-when-ripe tomatoes, and cannot live without them. I think I first tried them in 2003 and fell in love instantly :)

The link below will bring you to the list of 'green-when-ripe' tomatoes. This list is not a complete list, but will expose you to a few you may not hear about yet.

Tania

Here is a link that might be useful: Green Tomato Varieties