Gee. You'd think they could throw in free shipping!

Well Antiquesilver - you have gone and done it - I don't know whether to curse you or thank you! I am now the proud owner of a sugar spoon, a pickle fork, and 5 teaspoons in the Frontenac pattern and they are the prettiest pieces I have ever seen! I just love the detail of the pattern and the fact that the back is decorated as well! I am on the lookout for some dinner forks and gumbo spoons. The pieces are just gorgeous in your photos but in person,they are knockouts!
Thank you !
Pat

Congratulations, Pat, now you have a Frontenac monkey on your back! My job is done - I only wish I got a dealers' cut from all of my junkies!

Did you get the pieces on ebay or at a show? I'm sure it won't be long before you have enough to set a beautfiful table. And the larger serving pieces are even more spectacular than the small ones. BTW, someone told me that they use the sugar spoons for ice cream spoons so if you see others at a good price, it may be a wise investment. Of course, I had 2 & had already sold the extra before I heard this, LOL!

I bought one spoon on EBAY, the others I purchased online from different sellers at prices lower than what I saw on EBAY. I am really drawn to the serving pieces - they are so ornate. I had ice cream last night and it tasted so good with the silver spoon! LOL
I have to tell myself that it will be a hunt to get the pieces I want at a reasonable price, or else I'll be totaly impoverished!

I have this set as well. I am just short of a servie for 12 with 20 pieces per setting. I am short 3 iced tea spoons at this time. I did not bother to buy the pastry forks because they are new and not older pieces. I too, prefer monogrammed pieces because I feel they are older and appear to be better detailed. In regards to serving pieces,a t this time I have a total of 59. Thank god for ebay as I could not have done this otherwise.

Hi Phillip - that's a lot of place & serving pieces! You've piqued our interest so now it's time to show & tell all.

All of you have me drooling. I fell in love with old china and sterling as a girl when I helped unpack a maiden great aunt's things that had moved from her father's house to her sister's when her father died. Then the barrels moved from parsonage to parsonage over the years and had finally settled in the house in Evanston where my grandparents last lived. We unpacked this great aunt's Haviland china and other things, and I fell in love. I even recall some Remember the Maine memorabilia. What a wonderful hobby you have. My grandmother was married to a poor parson, but her father had been an architect. She had some lovely pieces of old sterling silver, but no complete sets at all. Just various pieces. One of my favorite had a buttercup encrusted handle; another, mother of pearl handled fruit knives.

Gorgeous! Thanks for sharing - I had no idea silver patterns could be so ornate and beautiful.

So in my set I don't have the orange knives, fruit knives, and the pastry forks. Nor do I have the fish fork at this time. However, I would love to get just a set of 6 of these. I think they are some of the most beautiful items in solid silver I have ever seen. Just wanted to add that I do have 6 ice cream spoons (yes, the real ones) and 14 ice cream forks. (not bragging!)

Your photos of the service pieces are awesome.

There are: BonBon Scoops both with floral and w/o on bowls, 1 tine butter pick, carving sets, chop, roast, steak. Ham knife. I believe that the small ladle was also known as the mayonnaise ladle that you showed. Mustard spoon, Poultry shearsrelish fork. The large fork next to the asparagus fork should be a salad fork. Note: Replacements suggested there was a vegetable serving fork when in fact, Simpson never listed one. Master Salt, Salad Spoon, there is also a lettuce serving spoon which should be paired with the lettuce fork. Many people believe that the 8 7/8 large spoon is a berry. It is a vegetable serving spoon and Simpsn does show that item. There is an all silver pie knive. There are both oyster ladle and soup which I have and a punch ladle which I have seen which is 14 inches in lenghth and not the 12 1/2 which Replacement suggested. That is the larger soup ladle. I don't have it but would like to. Pieces I don't have are ice tongs, ice spoon, nut spoon and pea spoon. I don't have the lemon fork yet either. Most amazing serving pieces in the world!

PS Note that Replacement has a lot of "no monogrammed" items. Have you ever wondered how. Before shipping, they remove the monogram and polish the patina off of the old pieces they sell for hundreds of dollars. They ruin the item just before they ship it! So ebay allows better buys than Replacements. I always had a list of their inventory as I bidded on items on ebay to make sure I never paid more that what Replacement listed the same item for.

Wow - that's an amazing number of ice cream spoons & forks! I want pictures as most of the time, I only see new production & cut up spoons. Most of my stuff is from ebay with some from antique shows; I stay away from the replacement services.

The mayo ladle is smaller than the old style cream ladle but larger than the mustard - I've only seen one of these years ago on ebay & I didn't win the auction, lots of cursing about that! My SIL has a bouillon ladle which is slightly longer than the gravy but more delicate in size. She also has an ice cream slice with a plated blade that's striking.

Do you have any of the old catalogs? I have a copy of a bad xerox that's undated & partly missing - but it's better than nothing! It shows several of the large serving spoons that are all about the same size & shape so it's nearly impossible to differentiate between berry & salad (& another one, I think but I'm not at home to check). The large fork that I call a veg. fork is probably newer production & is slightly different in proportion from the salad shown in my catalog.

Poultry shears - I'm envious but if you had a pea server or ice tongs, I'd been drooling! I used to have the all silver pie knife but sold it because the tip seemed too vulnerable to be used without damaging.

Have you seen the fruit or citrus knives in person? The handles are almost diamond shaped in profile & the detail is exquisite. The regular hollow handle knives are stunning but the small knives go a step beyond & are definately worth adding to your collection.

Please share photos - it's so great to see things that aren't shown that often.

The mayo/cream ladle that I have is unusual in that where there are normally the waves of water in the serving end, in this piece there is a smooth bowl apart from the lily flowers on the shoulders. I suspect people thought this was an error and so no one bidded against me. I got the piece for 5.00 dollars. It is the only ladle, apart from the mustard spoon where the bowl is smooth. I believe the piece is about 5 inches in length.

When I approached this set, I had first read a couple of books on old silver, each one stating that the older patterns were really difficult to find. So I decided I would buy what I saw when I saw it. DId not expect to find much and planned on being happy with the basic 4 or 6 piece place setting. I was surprised to see how much actually showed up on ebay. I just figured I would buy what I saw and hoped I could finish the piece. I did buy a few things from dealers, but I mainly used their list to judge whether things on ebay were getting too expensive. On one occasion, I wanted the sardine fork. This person "bamanurs" scooped in and took it on ebay. I went to he dealer and bought it for 65.00 less.

I understand someone had been making pieces from molds of the major floral patterns, Frontenac being one of them. Lily-Whiting was the other and others. I understood that these items were always larger and more weightier than the original. So in regards to the catalogue pages I have, I used them as a resource. Like the fork you have, the salad fork is suppose to be 8 7/8 in lenghth. They have been also measured at 8 5/8. In fact, some dealer told me that the smaller size was a beef fork. I bought it but I then later saw other dealers had had this with a spoon calling it a salad set. I have the salad fork and spoon which re 8 7/8 each.

The pie knife is an odd piece as I would never use it to cut into a pie plate with it. It is a pretty serving piece though and heavy. SHM did make a cake cutting knife which I have paired with the cake server (this is what everone calls a jelly cake knife) I do prefer listing items the way SHM listed them. I don't have it, but seen it, there is a jelly knife about 8 inches in legnth. You can tell the differnce between the berry spoon and the salad spoon because the salad spoon is about 2 3/8 inches wide. The berry and vegetable spoons are 2 7/8 inches wide. There is a salad spoon currently on ebay.

Replacements hads ice tongs in their inventory. I have seen one pea spoon on ebay but lost it in auction. There is also a sandwich/pastry tong which Replacement has for about 1100.00?

I am aware of the bouillon ladle and would like to add it at some point. I decided with Frontenac I needed to get basic items to pull together a set. But as I contnued on this journey, I was able to get items, I never expected to have. I have a wish list which I keep to myself but I can say right now that I have a fully viable service of Frontenac.

I have passed over the fruit knives and orange knives because I have never seen an orange knife until you showed yours and the fruit knives always come in single count. I imagine the handles are quite lovely in person. The carving pieces handles are amazing. They are thick and heavily detailed.

I will try to arrange for photos asap.

I guess you can tell, I love Frontenac!

It's a lovable pattern, to be sure! I bought three orange knives because they were about $5 each (plated blades aren't great) & the fruit knives were advertised on ebay as butter knives. I'm sure people thought they were new & ignored them & I doubt if I paid more than $50 for the set. I'm not sure they were ever used & the blades were so good I actually tested them with a magnet to be sure they weren't sterling, too.

OOPS, I see R L is on this site. It does not change the ewxperiences I have had with their inventory or customer service issues.

They advertise everywhere - so what?

What? There's ads? Y'all need to upgrade your browsers if you're seeing advertisements here!

Hi,

Just reviewing the serving pieces you have in this. I am wondering how long the Vegetable Serving Fork is. It does look larger than the Asparagus Fork. Is that correct?

Thanks

Hi Phillip,
I'm at work so I can't confirm the length of the Asparagus but notes I have on the Veg say that it's 9-1/8" x 2-1/2" with longer, tighter tines than the salad fk.
HTH,
Hester

I have been trying to locate additional information about Frontenac. I checked a listing of ads for International Silver and although they do range from 1914 through 1977, none had any listing of Frontenac. Does any know if Frontenac fell out of favor before the 50's when all Art Nouveau patterns were on the decline. Cleary, in these examples, the patterns are much more simple and linear. i.e Royal Danish, Prelude, Joan of Arc.

Hi, just found this forum. Am also a Frontenac collector. Started when I found a basic set in about 1981. My focus has been on serving pieces. In place pieces I have the basics and am trying for one example each of the very unusual forms. Must admit that we almost never use the stuff but I love it. One of the great nouveau silver patterns made in America. My question for you all is has anyone ever seen the lettuce spoon in person? I have looked for one since I got a copy of the catalog about 25 years ago. Am also missing the ice and pea spoons and some parts of some of the carving sets. Have one piece that I have only seen one example of and not illustrated. It is a cucumber server? smaller than the tomatoe illustrated in the catalog and with curved tines comming off the side of the bowl rather than the front, with typical Frontenac piercing.

Sorry for the mixup in my last post. The cucumber is illustrated in the catalog. It has tines on the front of the bowl and is not all that rare based on Ebay listings. The piece that I described which has tines on the side of the bowl and is smaller than the cucumber may be a tomato. Any firm info?

Tomato servers are usually larger than cucumber & I've not seen one in Frontenac. I vaguely remember seeing one like you describe - probably on ebay - but I don't remember the purpose; I'll check my records when I get home today & hopefully I kept info on it. Was the center area only about the size of a quarter?

I agree that generally the cucumber is the smaller piece. I cant find my copy of the frontenac catalog at the moment but I am fairly sure that the piece with tines on the front is listed as a cucumber. Several are on Ebay now. It is 6 1/2 inches long and about 2 1/2 inches wide. The piece I mentioned with tines on the side is 5 1/2 inches long with a round flat bowl 2 1/4 inches wide the tines are only about 1/4 inches long, curved down slightly toward the handle and there are 8 of them. The handle on the mystery piece is also smaller than that on the larger piece (kind of like a teaspoon vs a 5 o clock) The piercing in the center of the two pieces is very different so the smaller could not have been made from the larger. You might have seen the mystery piece on Ebay as that is where I bought it.

The description of the one like yours that I copied from ebay (in 2008)says it's for sardines & I think that's a possibility. Maybe it was used as a lifter in conjunction with the sardine fork. Why don't you post a photo so everyone can see what this rarity looks like!

Concerning the difference between a tomato & a cuke server, perhaps I wasn't clear. I've never seen a tomato server in Frontenac & the top-toothed server is listed as Cucumber in my catalog although it's certainly sized more appropriatedly for tomatoes. I need to go through some of my other pattern catalogs because I vaguely remember seeing both pieces in whatever pattern & the tomato was the smaller of the two. Maybe they served a lot of cherry tomatoes!

Richard,
I went through my turn-of-the-century catalogs & didn't find any particular emerging pattern for these servers, except ALL mfgrs seemed to make at least 2 sizes & many were used for both purposes.

Virginiana-Sliced Tomato or Cucumber-lg w/side teeth & small w/o teeth.

Buttercup (no photo)-Sliced Tomato-Lg & Small

Durgin Chrysanthemum-Small Cucumber, Lg Cucumber, & a much larger Tomator Server w/side comb-type teeth (looks more like a macaroni server)

Iris-2 small Cucumber styles, 1 large Cucumber (matching one of the smaller ones), 1 Large tomato-none have teeth

New Art-Lg comb-type Tomato Server & 2 Lg Cucumbers

Intaglio, Les Cinq, LeParisienne - no photos but described as Small Tomato Server, hand pierced

Gorham Poppy-Sliced Tomato or Cucumber, round, no teeth & looks to be relatively small

Watson Orchid-Tomato Server, Lg & Small, no teeth.

I wish someone would chime in who has a Simpson, Hall & Miller catalog - maybe Stratford or a more complete Frontenac.

In Orchid, there is a piece listed as a CHEESE SERVER that's very similar to the Frontenac mystery piece. It appears to be smaller than their small tomato server & has teeth on the side.

HTH

Thanks for the info. I may try to get a photo but I will have to learn how first. The mystery piece is different from the sardine which is a wide, shallow fork with tines facing forward. It seems reasonable that both a large and a small server for sliced cold veggies were made in Frontenac, one with tines on front and the smaller with tines to the side. While it seems reasonable to us today, given the relative sizes of modern veggies, to call the larger a tomato and the smaller a cucumber maybe they just switched the names or maybe the two pieces were produced at very different times and both were originally named the same. Till a more complete catalog turns up the mystery remains. Question remains, has anyone ever actually seen a lettuce spoon? Richard

What would the best way be to identify a sterling Reed & Barton pattern from the 1940's? Its very ornate with what look like to possibly be apples on it.

If you post a picture here, someone may know.
Lacking that you can search Replacements.com.
Linda C

To lindac,
Thank you for responding. I will try to post a picture when my computer literate daughter is here this weekend. I went on to the replacements site but I don't see how to identify a pattern shows there. I am trying to sell this silver for a friend and trying to figure out the best way possible. I am near NYC so there are options there but I don't know if I should do it that way or at auction but I don't think Ebay.

I'm betting it's Francis I.

Here is a link that might be useful: replacements

To antiquesilver,
Does Francis I have what look like little(possibly) apples on it? I tried replacements but found it difficult to see small detail.

Paige, I'm not sure - I'm guessing. It's a multi-motif pattern & I believe it has fruit on it but I don't have any of it to inspect. Did you click on the Replacements photo to enlarge it? And does the overall pattern look similar to yours?

This is a link to the SilverQueen matching service showing a better photo of some of the different fruit motifs. The notation below the photo says there are 15 different motifs.

Here is a link that might be useful: Francis I

I don't believe a tomato server was designed and produced in Frontenac. I have been looking and recently came across some listings of items being sold in 1910 and 1914. There was a line for Tomato Servers but only one pattern was indicated to have one made. Frontenac, on the same page was blank. Not sure why it would not have been produced in this as well as the other patterns on the page.

Richard, sorry but I've never seen a lettuce spoon in person but I'm sure I've seen them on ebay. If I can find my photo of the mystery server, I'll try to post it next week. It looks like a beautiful piece - no matter what its use - & one any collector would be proud to own; I'm envious!

To antique silver,
I have determined it is Francis I. Thank you so much for that but now I'm confused. If one collects this pattern do they pick a certain fruit for it. I'm also wondering if replacements is the best way to sell it. I sold them china years ago but silver seems to still be popular so there may be other routes.

Each pattern piece has a different fruit....I think there are 15 in all.
Replacements won't give you top dollar...only about 2/3 of what you might sell it for elsewhere.Silver Queen also buys silver.....check what they will give you.
Why do you want to sell it?
Linda C

Richard,

I think you have what is considered an individual cheese/tomato server--the small piece. I believe early on Replacements had one of these and listed it as a bon bon scoop at 5 1/2 inches. As I stated earlier, I have not found that SHM produced tomato servers in Frontenac. By the time the first world war was over, silver companies had started to cut their inventories in what would be offered to the public. I noted also that there was no punch ladle made in Frontenac either.
As a matter of fact there were only 3 patterns on the page of nine that even offered this piece. There was a "punch ladle" on ebay over a year ago that sold for about 1100.00. I bidded and then backed away. The weight of the pieces as well as the shape and size of the bowl concerned me. As I recall, the handle was completely straight. I suspect someone forced the handle and stem straight to make up the 14 inch length. The soup ladle that I have is very heavy and the bowl measures 4 inches across. This pieces is 12 1/4 inches long. I believe this is why SHM chose not to issue one in this pattern.

In regards to the Lettuce Fork, there is one currently on ebay. In regards to the lettuce set, Replacement had one, so far the only one I've seen, and I purchased it when it was on sell there. The fork is 8 3/4 inches long and the spoon is 9 1/4 in length. You can go to the site and find a picture of it under no monogram items.

To lindac,
It belongs to a friend who inherited it from her parents,doesn't like it and is also quite sick and will most likely never have a need for it and could use the money. That is amazing to know that each piece is a different fruit. I would never have figured that out and would have driven myself crazy trying to think if I had the right pattern. Thank you again.

To paige 16.

The overall design concept is that there are a total of 15 variations of the fruit clusters found in a complete set of Francis First. Forks would have one group, spoons, another, serving pieces another. So if you purchased every place piece and every serving piece offered, you would have all 15 fruit groupings.

To PWebb,
Its a great concept in marketing. Thank you for further enlightening me. Some of the pieces I have seem impractical for today's lifestyles but judging from this post there are clearly silver lovers out there. I just have to search around to figure out how to get the best price for my friend.

To paige 16

Yes it is true that most of those items really have no place on current tables for most of us. I think that collecting is so important rather than just melting the stuff down. I have bought items in my set because they were available for purchase. I did not expect to have the number of place pieces or serving pieces that I have. That is why I am thankful that Ebay does exist. I am sure that it it did not, I would not have had the set that I was abel to put together. The writes of the silver books said it was a hard pattern to collect. It really would have been had it not been for Ebay.

This is our history and heritage. It is beautiful art as well. Just remember that some companies have given up trying to reproduce some of the "vintage patterns". Its because those men that created those early pieces were craftsmen. Just think, the silver companies as we knew them vitrually don't exist any more. They have been sucked up into holes and are no more than another part of a holding company. The people that own them at this point really don't understand or appreciate good American Silver. The younger people are there just because it is a job.

Replacements does think it is doing the customer a favor by buying their silver. They are not all that honest either. I have tried selling there and found that they do try to take advantage of the original owner but make pretty good profits off of what you have sold to them. Be careful when you negotiate value with some of the folks out there.

Paige,
IMO, ebay is a great venue for selling flatware, probably as individual pieces or x number of forks, spoons, etc rather than a full set. Francis I is widely collected & older pieces in good condition are far more desirable than the newer, poorly finished silver.

Take good photos (front, back, & detail) & list accurate descriptions complete with sizes (to measure, lay the piece upside down on a ruler), monograms, & any flaws. If you have any serving pieces that need identification, we can probably help.

This is a photo of a listing I saved from ebay in 2008 that may be the same as the mystery tomato/cheese server.

It is definitely an individual tomato/cheese server.

I would agree that it's most likely for tomato/cuke or cheese but not to be used as an individual place piece. The serving piece would deposit the food on the diner's plate but there's no way or use (that I know of) a piece like this could be used to consume, spread, or cut food into bit size morsels. With a few exceptions, most of the food-specific Victorian pieces were extremely well suited for the intended purpose but this piece won't fly as a place piece.

Many times, smaller serving pieces were used with the luncheon service (primarily for the ladies, I suspect) because they were better scaled than for the larger sized dinner service. Smaller hands, smaller portions & daintier foods, smaller plates, smaller forks & knives - smaller serving pieces.

oh my gosh how beautiful! This is the pattern I collect too. Can you tell me any tips on where to buy more pieces?

Most of mine came from ebay during the late 1990's although antique shows & malls are usually good sources, too.

A heads up to those of you checking ebay for Frontenac. This seller has 12 spoons, 12 heavy dinner forks, butter spreaders, & 3 old knives that are NOT advertised as Frontenac. At least one of the forks has a repair on the back & you need to be diligent in finding out if others are damaged as he's selling them in groups of 4 but apparently used the same photos for all 3 listings. I called the repair to his attention but he doesn't seem to understand that he needs to clarify the situation. I have no connection with this seller or auction.

Good luck to those bidding & let us know if you win!

Here is a link that might be useful: ronmar22's frontenac listings

Did any of the Frontenac addicts on this forum win the auction(s)?????????

I thought the silver went for a real bargain....Iw as sorely tempted....but thought "Linda, not ANOTHER pattern"....hope iot went to a good home....beautiful stuff!
Linda C