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trinkette1

Lacanche, Cornufé or Berta range w/ Bosch or DCS wall oven?

trinkette1
8 years ago

Lacanche, Cornufe, or Bertazzoni Range with Bosch 500, DCS wall oven for small kitchen?

I am looking for an LP gas range, 36" or larger. Ideally, I'd like two ovens - one gas and one electric - and I'm ambivalent about an oven convection feature. In terms of looks, the professional style ranges do not appeal to me. So, I'm hoping I can get the kind of performance I want in the European-style package. Eye-appeal, performance, and cost-for-what-you-get are primary reasons for considering the Lacanche, Cornufé and Bertazzoni ranges. If I could find one at the right price, I'm not opposed to a used La Cornue, Molteni or similar range.

I prefer knobs to electronic displays. I'm always in a hurry to get things done and I'm one of those people who burns herself and chops-off fingertips, so design, ease of use and ergonomics are important to me. My husband jokes that after I cook, FEMA needs to come in to clean-up! Regardless, I'm persnickety about quality of build in all things, and when I cook, I want a stove top and oven to heat evenly, I don't want things to feel flimsy and I want them to last. I'm looking for a stovetop that has at least five burners, a low simmer and also puts out enough heat to stir-fry effectively (I'm torn between a French plate and power-burner). I'd prefer quiet ovens that heat-up relatively quickly, put out even heat, have low heat settings, and have quality thermostats and close-fitting doors. I don't care if the ovens have interior lights, windows in the doors, self-clean, or beep when pre-heating is done. Pretty much, performance trumps accessories/options. I've not cooked with any of these appliances except for the DCS single wall oven.

Our kitchen is a small, U-shaped area with a narrow island and we'd like to work within the current footprint. There is not a lot of room, however I'm willing to dedicate the center portion of the "u" to the range/ovens. The range and hood would be the focal point. I have small concerns about the relative cost of an effective hood over a larger-sized, multiple-oven range (like a bigger Lacanche) as well as the cost to deal with potential MUA issues, however, the quality of the range/ovens comes first. Also, the disconnect between the old-style looks of Lacanche and La Cornue/Cornufé and the modern appearance of a Bosch or DCS oven is secondary to performance.

I'm an average cook, with a husband and teen-aged son. We do not entertain much. My husband and I cook a little of everything, including: cakes; pies, breads and cookies; roast fowl, meats and vegetables; egg dishes; chocolate confections; casseroles; sauces; stir fry; pizza; pancakes and crepes; and pasta dishes. Usually, we grill outside. I use a slow cooker and would prefer to do that in my new oven. Also, I dehydrate fruits and plants and use the oven for crafts.

My question is: which range or range/wall oven combo do you think is my best bet in terms of servicing our cooking goals and meeting expectations for quality? After reading the forums extensively and researching the internet, I have reservations about each possible combination, and yet I still believe the solution is here. These are my options as I see them: 1) Any one of several Lacanche models with gas and electric oven combo (and maybe a warming cabinet); 2) Any one of several Lacanche models with gas oven paired with single electric wall oven (again, maybe add a warming cabinet) Bosch 500, DCS or similar; 3) Cornufé 110 (no gas oven here, but it can work); Cornufé 1908 paired with single electric wall oven Bosch 500, DCS or similar (I like the La Cornue style gas oven here); 4) Bertazzoni double, dual-fuel oven; 5) Bertazzoni gas oven paired with single electric wall oven Bosch 500 or similar. 6) Another option - I'm happy to hear your ideas, even if you think my ideas are all wet.

It is very early in our kitchen redo process and I am completely open to suggestions. Sorry to be so long-winded. I appreciate your expertise and advice. Thanks in advance for your input!

Comments (81)

  • HadesHounds
    8 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Ok more updates from your perfection-seeking gardenweb stove hunting friend! Sorry-long post!
    I too saw the Moltenis on that recycling place, but by the time I actually got my hands on one up close and personal (more on that in a moment), it was sold. And it wasn't green-if I'm going to spend my kids' inheritance, I think it should be my favorite color.
    So I live in the Bay Area, which is turning out to be stove shopping heaven. As I mentioned in a previous post, there are a lot of different high-end (and medium end) stoves to actually go and see- the Molteni, La Cornue and Lacanche to mention just three.
    The Molteni rep lives in Oakland, and he graciously opened his home to my husband and I with very little notice to allow us to play with the stove and examine the construction. If you go to his website (it's separate from the "official" Molteni web page-the addy is www.frenchstoves.com), there's a pic in the slideshow that shows his actual stove. Not sure what model it is; hope someone more in the know than me can chime in here. The stove is white and there's a young man with his back to the camera cooking. Not sure if he's gift with purchase...lol
    The stove is built like a tank-my husband was super impressed with the build quality. The rep really pointed out the key features, including how well the flame functioned around the pan without heat waste. As a chef, I can agree that it was functional and efficient. The flames stayed exactly where they should even witha change in pans, unlike my aging Wolf.
    The true star of the show, and perhaps an incentive to those with less room and a more limited budget(that being a relative term with this stove-it's still very expensive compared to 'regular" stuff) was the coup de feu/french top.
    On this model, the top is to one side, which not only allows the user to plop a multitude of pans on the actual surface, but also allows one to utilize even the stainless back edges for keeping things warm and low slow cooking. If you have a small space but need big performance, I would heartily encourage one to consider a french top. It blew us away, and I've cooked on the things!
    The model we saw was a single oven which seemed to be a regular size-not huge, but certainly adequate. I don't think I could fit a 40 lb turkey in it (I cooked this size one year on my BBQ, and it bent the grill, but that's another story) but a regular 22ish lb. one would probably work just fine. The rep says he uses the oven bottom(the actual bottom, not the rack) as a sort of pizza stone, then when it's crispy, moves the pizza to the top to finish it. Neat!
    He indicated that the oven was fabulous for roasting, but not so great for baking, so all of you have the right idea with ordering the second oven. I did think the Moltenis look a little, well, clunky. I know. Blasphemy.
    Today I attended a Miele demo and got to see the induction cooktop(cool-literally), and the four ovens including a ?smart? steam oven (haven't had a chance to read through the literature yet. Will post more if anybody is interested. The chef cooked chicken, salmon, brussel sprouts, asparagus, broccoli and a nice little sauce-and we got to eat it all! The steam oven was amazing. The roller rack on the larger oven (it has a rotisserie too!) was smooth. Thank you trinkette et.al for pointing out the importance of this-didn't check it on all the appliances I looked at. The induction also comes in a single large burner hob that can be flush mounted, and the rumor is more ovens and appliances are due out in June. I'm Skyping with the Rorgue rep tomorrow-they have stoves in the same price range as a La Cornue, and will post my experiences with this if i'm not boring anybody.
    Sorry I went on so long, but there's not a lot of input on some of these stoves out there, so I thought I'd chime in. As for BS, lots of people love them, but they are (at least the models I saw), like the Viking and Culinaire, a living nightmare to clean if you have a spillover IMHO (on this, I speak from sad first person experience. Last, a small La Cornue or Lacanche isn't overkill in a modest house-it's the charming jewel in the crown.

  • trinkette1
    Original Author
    8 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    HadesHounds, thank you for your post. And, no worries - an enlightening report can NEVER be too long! I'm still out here researching - painfully going back and forth in terms of what I "must have," juggling perceived performance, appliance build, integrity, and options as well as customer service with aesthetics and how it all ultimately fits into my house (the house is most definitely NOT my style BTW, so there's a bit of a disconnect there). Regardless, I'm looking forward to visiting a few working ranges soon.

    I agree about the sageness of a French top, especially with a smaller range. And, I've considered a single, counter-mounted induction top along with whatever gas range I end-up with; interesting to read you are doing the same! A steam oven is not out of the question either. Still, I'm not sure that either, induction top or wall-mounted [steam] oven, is really necessary for my cooking needs.

    Also, I understand the color issue that is often at play when shopping for pre-owned or demo ranges - I've passed on several that I might've otherwise purchased simply because the color was wrong for me. Like you, HadesHounds, if I'm spending a good chunk of change on something that I will see and use daily - hopefully for many, many years to come - I better like it each and every time I see it! If you're going with the enamel, color counts. I'd hate to go through all this range research,"settle" for a color, and end up feeling like if only I'd saved or spent more, I could've had what I "really" wanted.

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  • gigi7
    8 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    I have had two of the aforementioned....in our last house (thinking it would be our LAST house), I had a LaCanche Sully...ivory. She was a beauty! And a workhorse...and house sold to a woman who couldn't care less. Doesn't cook and probably has sold it or something....(tears...ok, take a breath); in our new house, I have a CornuFe 110 in dark (and I mean DARK green)....it's beautiful! When I was deciding which stove I'd choose to replace the one that was already here, I knew that I wanted one or the other...or a Wolf. Now, I love the look of the French-style ranges and was extremely restricted on space in this kitchen....they still had to come in and cut down cabinets. Went with the CornuFe because of the two ovens. I cook a LOT and have a large family (there are 23 of us every Sunday for dinner...just the immediate family), so the two ovens are a necessity, even though there is still a 30" wall oven. I loved my Sully, but I love the CornuFe, also. I notice that the oven doors aren't nearly hot as the LaCanche, and that's important with all the little hands around here in the kitchen. The doors close securely and I have the same burners as I did on the Sully, but no French top.I had heard that the ovens took a long time to heat....not at all..in fact, I called Purcell Murray to ask about this before I bought the range....pretty fast time to get to the requested temp. My kitchen is not nearly as hot as it was with the Sully, either. Good luck with your choice; thought I'd post as I've had both of these ranges....both beautiful; the CornuFe has had several disparaging remarks that I've seen, but I have no idea why....I'm really picky and this range has done everything I wanted it to do! Mostly, it's going to be a matter of personal choice!

  • trinkette1
    Original Author
    8 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Gigi7, I am so glad you decided to share your experience! And how fortunate you are to have lived with and used daily both of these lovely ranges. Now, it'd be so much easier of you'd written that you were UNhappy with one!

    I'm curious, were ovens in the Sully gas, electric or one of each? Also, do you have convection in your Cornufe ovens?

    Because you don't mention it I assume that for you - with the exception of the difference in the oven door temps - there were no other significant differences between the two, ie, the racks, grates or build of one brand/model don't stand out in any bad or good way from the racks, grates or build and etc, of the other brand/model. Correct?

    Finally, in your experience, do you find one range to be a slightly better fit for certain dishes or cooking/baking styles?

    Thanks again for your comments. : )

  • HadesHnds
    8 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Dear trinkette et. al, thanks for the props-I need 'em right now! We are sooo on the same wavelength-looking at and considering all the same things. What do I "have" to have, what do I lust for? I still have the rest of our pretty extensive remodel to pay for!
    In regards to french tops/coup de feus/whatever the sales people want to call them; There is a quite a variation on what the manufacturer considers its' function.
    I had tentatively scheduled an actual cooking demo at Purcell-Murray to test drive the La Cornue french top, and when I e-mailed the rep she was kind enough to send pictures and technical details.Seems that La Cornue has toned down the power(7500 btu's) "to allow a true simmer plate". There is also no cement or bricks under there as best I can tell (though this may be a difference in approach to the heat distribution, as OG also does not; there IS a metal plate under both the aforementioned, unlike the Molteni, which should make cleanup a breeze!) Maybe I'm missing something, but in restaurants, they don't use all that real estate to simmer stuff, but rather to actually cook it! Then you'd slide it further from the heat source to finish, stay warm, whatever. It's not supposed to be a giant warming platter!
    Contrast that to Molteni's 20 thousand-ish (don't have the exact number off the top of my head) BTU's, Officine Gullo's stggering 36K, and Rorgue's similar to Molteni firepower. Rorgue uses bricks and mortar rather than cement underneath, on the theory that cement will crack. Rorgue also has some sort of water pan under the burners that flushes, thus keeping everything , spills included, super clean. All the stoves are about the same price, feature for feature, including the La Cornue, so if you can afford that, you can afford the others. Hope this tidbit was informative. So help me out-my architect is having kittens waiting for me! Ugg! who'a thunk something so fun could be turning into such a PITA!

  • trinkette1
    Original Author
    8 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Good stuff, HadesHnds. Also, I've noticed that BTUs for a French top may be slightly less if you use liquid propane as opposed to natural gas.

  • HadesHnds
    8 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Yes, fuel source ( and having it adjusted correctly!) is key to cooking the best out of your appliance, no matter the cost.While I was at Percell-Murray, the rep ( she was awesome!) mentioned how many complaints she gets on appliances when like 99% of the time it's user error or failure to maintain.Bombe pots and pans really help too.I LOVE my All -Clad Copper Core! Supposedly there's an outlet that sells them for a great price. Not sure if I found it here or on Chowhound.
    Off to make a spreadsheet to compare my choices...ugh sgain.

  • gigi7
    8 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Hi, trinkette....yes, if I had hated or at least been a little dissatisfied with one or the other, it WOULD be easier!!! LOL...however, that's not the case...they are both beautiful...BEAUTIFUL!! You can probably search and find that I had asked on this forum about 3 years ago what anyone's experience here had been with the CornuFe, since I'd had the LaCanche..my issue was with SPACE..I didn't have that issue in the other house as we gutted the kitchen to the studs. Where did I find out about LaCanche? RIght here....gardenweb...on this and the Kitchens forum...and I read every single post...for months! I was cautioned to wait and buy another LaCanche...no one had anything nice to say about CornuFe...but I did do research...and called personally Purcell Murray and a couple of owners here....and, wanting the look I wanted, chose my CornuFe...and it's used every single day, cleaned every single day, and loved every single day; as was my Sully! My range is dual fuel, both ovens are convection and I have to use my cheat sheet still to do the left-side oven....it's no big deal....need my glasses!! Not complicated at all! LOL...they cook beautifully....and I've done it all in here...from turkey and dressing to cream puffs and pies and lava cakes....bread nearly every single day.....that's the way I cook....all from scratch. Just define your cooking style and go for it...you really can't lose with either! I promise! No, no problems with pans; got the new turkey roaster from Williams-Sonoma this holiday season and it rocked! The most wonderful turkey ever! But, was it the oven or the roasting pan? Maybe both? Easy to clean? Yes...takes time, yes...but anything worthwhile DOES take time, right? The size of this is almost 43"...my Sully was almost 60"....about 59", I think....so I lost some oven space and the French top...but other than that? Nothing...burners completely comparable! I did get oven thermometers and tested the pans on the top with the gas heat...perfect performance. I use All-Clad pots and pans; have Staub dutch ovens; various other odds and ends...especially my beloved cast iron skillets. All do quite well! So my opinion? buy what you love....get the look you love! You will be happy any way you go!

  • HadesHnds
    8 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Gigi, can you talk a little bit about your former french top and whether you liked it, used it etc? Any input would be great!

  • gigi7
    8 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Honestly, I rarely used it, only ONLY because my kitchen (which was 400 sq. ft) got so hot...and yes, I used it when there were a lot of pots to heat....or keep hot, as at Thanksgiving or Christmas....nice? yes...do I have to have it? no...absolutely not! Does it look cool? YES, absolutely yes!! So...was this help? Probably not...lol...but it's way fun to decide!

  • ChristyMcK
    8 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Gigi7 - This is really great information! Thank you so much for posting. We can accommodate a 39 to 42 (maybe 43) range in our existing space and I've been eyeing the Volnay + second oven (Gagg/Miele). Your input is great reassurance that I can't go wrong with a Lacanche or CornuFe.

  • trinkette1
    Original Author
    8 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Gigi7, your comments are extremely helpful, even though they are NOT, lol. I've read GW for many, many years and was all set years ago to purchase a Lacanche. And the folks at Art Culinaire are a delight to deal with. Then our life went upside down and plans changed. This time around, I'm taking more time and exploring ALL the options to be sure I'm not letting form steal my heart over function. I'm heartened to see that Lacanche is still one of my top choices.

    Also, as you mention, I recall the slams that the Cornufe range line received around here; I never quite understood what the problem was. As far as I know, the line has never pretended to be anything other than what it is. And I don't remember much ever written about the actual performance.

    Anyway, in all fairness, if it were ONLY about function, I'd be tempted to go with BlueStar. And I may still. I've completely come around and, at this point, actually prefer all-gas to dual fuel. However, as fabulous as I think BS ranges are - and I do love their open burners and I do think they are actually EASIER to clean and I like the fact that they are manufactured just a few hours away from where I live - I just can't see one in the kitchen I'm envisioning. And, most likely, I'm not a savvy enough cook to need or fully appreciate any superior performance the BS may have over the European models I'm considering. Still, BS is another range at the top of my list. I wish they offered the Platinum series in the 36" size. I might have pulled the trigger a few weeks ago.

    But time marches on, and I am still undecided.

    Back to the French ranges: Gigi7, did you have gas ovens in your Sully? Also, are you bothered at all by noise from the convection in the Cornufe (and the Sully if you had convection there). Like sticky, squeaky racks, convection noise is an added consideration for me.

    On a different note, FWIW, I think La Cornue may have misjudged the American market a bit with the pricing/marketing of the 36" Cornufe 1908, which I understand was created and sized expressly for the US market. It's got the coveted Chateaux gas oven in the Cornufe frame with Cornufe top - this single, fancy gas oven in the 1908 makes the unit considerably higher in price than the single electric oven Cornufe 90. Okay, I get it. However, the 1908 is also priced considerably higher than the dual fuel, dual-oven Cornufe 110. With about a $4K-plus difference (if I remember correctly), I can see many potential buyers choosing the less pricey dual-fuel with TWO ovens over the all-gas single oven 1908, especially if they are not sold on gas or don't have access to gas. And, as someone who actually prefers gas, I see myself seriously considering the electric oven 110 over the gas 1908 as well. I'm thinking, how many folks considering these ranges are going to distinguish significant performance differences between the Chateaux oven in the 1908 and the electric oven(s) in the rest of the Cornufe line? As you said, Gigi7, your electrics perform wonderfully for you.

  • Gooster
    8 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Gigi7: I remember reading your posts while I was appliance shopping -- so good to see it is still working out for you.

  • HadesHnds
    8 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Gigi, can you talk a little bit about your former french top and whether you liked it, used it etc? Any input would be great!

  • HadesHnds
    8 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Gigi, can you talk a little bit about your former french top and whether you liked it, used it etc? Any input would be great!

  • achauer
    8 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Trinkette, for what it's worth, I was checking out a Volnay yesterday and observed it with the convection fan on - I would not call it noisy at all. Just audible, but very low and muffled when the door is closed.

  • gigi7
    8 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    I'm so sorry, y'all, that I haven't responded sooner..have had a little bit of the "crud", sore throat, etc...so...oh, goodness, I DID neglect to report on the noise level...my VERY VERY favorite difference? Between the two LOVELY ranges? My CornuFe goes OFF when I turn the oven OFF....no noise. No NOTHING!!! OMG, I can tell you, I love that! That's one thing with the Sully: the noise level of those oven fans drove me crazy!!! Sorry, maybe mine was worse than others, but yes,very noticeable and I used to leave those doors open (EVERY night) so they could cool off sooner...even though they would heat up the kitchen (and in the middle of a West Texas summer, this was no small thing)...And to address the French top: I really didn't use it as much as I should have, but it WAS nice when prepping multiple pots. I don't miss it really...but that's just me. I did test all ovens with an oven thermometer before I used them to see if they were accurate and all of them were spot on and I didn't have any "hot spots", either. Would I purchase another Lacanche? Oh, sure! I think you get more choices with Lacanche than you do with CornuFe, and of course way more color choices. What's not to love? and the folks at Art Culinaire are very helpful, too! I neglected to say that earlier! So much is just a matter of personal taste and what's important to you!

  • ChristyMcK
    8 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Trinkette: I have a hard time imagining the BS in our kitchen as well. It's a 1956 artdeco/midcentury style and we are not doing a full remodel in part so I can splurge on dream appliances. Still I have a hard time forgoing those 22k open burners. Like you I'm not sure I'd be able to appreciate the difference between a 22k BS burner over a 18.5k btu Lacanche burner. Yet I'm not sure I won't be able to tell (or care about) the difference, which makes choosing something over the BS hard. I've always been a function over form kind of person. The main downside I see is the 36" BS has a very big oven which will take a lot more time to heat up than the smaller ovens in the french ranges and on a daily basis I think this would be very frustrating. Although I do plan on getting a steam combi oven I don't want to buy a range with an oven I'll rarely use - it's seems like a waste.

    Achaeur: Lucky you re: seeing the Volnay - It's what I keep coming back to. Its the exact same size as our existing range and I like the idea of having the warming cupboard. I was considering a gas oven but now that I'm going to get a combi-steam oven I have an oven that provides moister heat so am on the fence about whether I should go electric or gas.

    I'm off to see the Lacanche ranges this week. I'm very much looking forward to it!

  • achauer
    8 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    The Lacanche convection fans have a toggle switch now, so you can turn them on and off as desired.

  • HadesHounds
    8 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Hi Garden Webbers! I hope I'm not boring anybody to death here with my updates, but I wanted to let those that might be interested to know that I went up again to Oakland and this time I actually cooked on the Molteni! It's the funniest thing-I'm a more than capable cook, didn't plan a super complex meal and came with almost all the ingredients and tools I needed, but I still felt like a kindergardener when faced with the Molteni and the owner's amazing kitchen. It wasn't the stove-it's very basic to use with plenty of power and room. It was me.
    The oven the rep had (his name is Michael and he is so kind and knowledgable!He's taken the time to respond promprtly to my every query, no matter how trivial) is an electric one (you can pick either gas or electric. He has a smaller galley kitchen, so his reasoning was that he could use it both as an oven and a salamander, since it has two seperate elements.)and holy cow!-it was a beast!
    I let him lead the way (he doesn't bake, but he loves it for roasting) and we popped my brownies in. All did not go well-they were cremated, but I think truly that it was user error-both of ours, and primarily mine, as I was distracted by all the things the coup de feu could do)-rather than the oven's fault. I seem to recall reading a Lacance or La Cornue owner that had the same issue until they realized not to bake with both elements on. I'll have to track that post down.
    On to the french top.As I mentioned above, many vendors have dumbed down the plaque and turned it into some sort of wimpy warming plate, which isn't the point of the whole thing. Not so with the Molteni-it was a true super giant multi zoned cooking surface. My two types of rice (I cooked them in two different pans to see what would happen) came quickly to a boil, then we slid them waaaaay off to the side to gently simmer and steam. I seriously could have fit ten pans into that medium sized space because every inch is a cooking surface.There IS a learning curve though. You have to fire up the top in advance of your cooking because it takes a while to heat up. The rep does his prep work during this time, plus he does have two regular gas burners on the stove for quick cooking. You also have to learn where the hotter and cooler parts are, but this doesn't look like it will be hard.
    The ovens, the burners, and the plaque can all be adjusted temperature wise, so I don't want anyone to think subtlty isn't a possibility on this brand.
    Am waiting for quotes on the Gullo as well as definite specs so I can compare. Hope someone out there finds this helpful. Trinkette, how goes your search? You really should consider the Lacanche. It was just too shallow on the cooktop end to fit my super giant pots.

  • ChristyMcK
    8 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Well, I had a similar experience on a Lacanche today. I burned myself and burned a pot - both total user errors. I learned that a french plate is not where you should boil water. I am definitely not a chef. But I had a lovely time and was very impressed with the Lacanche. I made an omelet, boiled water, made cookies, stir fried veggies, melted chocolate and generally got an overall feel for the range. It's an entirely different beast than my 1950s coil electric range. Although to be fair, my largest burner can bring a pot of water to boil pretty fast and the oven heats up pretty quickly.

    I think my test omelet was the best omelet I've ever made. If I get a Lacanche (likely) I think I might call her Judy after Judy Rogers. I have learned so much technique (including how to cook an omelet) from the Zuni Cafe Cookbook and was so sorry to hear of her recent death. Anyway, I digress. I left there just thrilled with it. I haven't had the same feeling after seeing the blue star (thought admittedly I haven't cooked on it). I think there is something about the beauty, fit and finish that speaks to me. And the power relatively to what I am used to is P-L-E-N-T-Y for this sometime forgetful and not always coordinated cook. I definitely confirmed that the 39" Volnay + combi-steam oven would be a great fit for our needs. I took my bigger cookware to make sure it could fit simultanenously and perfectly centered on the burners of the 5-burner range top and had no problem fitting all of it on there perfectly. My 'big' cookware includes mostly 12" and 10" wide casseroles and stockpots. Hadeshound is probably using bigger cookware.

    Not quite ready to pull the trigger but definitely headed in that direction. I'll probably go with the classique since I'm not trained to use a french plate, want the ability to boil big pots of water fast, and because it comes with a simmer plate that I can use ad hoc across two burners. My burning question now is whether to get the gas oven or the electric/convection oven if my second oven is a combi-steam oven. Opinions?

  • Port8422
    8 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    I've learned so much through this forum, thanks for all the postings! We have to replace our wall oven/microwave unit and I'm DONE IN with researching all the options.Unfortunately, price is a serious consideration - Miele being on the high end of what we can spend. My husband is sold on the DCS double oven unit but we're new to the brand and haven't read much in the way of reviews. Although we adore our 5-burner Wolf cooktop the wall ovens don't seem to be getting good marks. We have to move on ordering something so...help! Can anyone weigh in on the DCS, Wolf, Electrolux...or anything else? Our one demand, it needs to have a Proof (85-110) option.
    Thanks!

  • HadesHnds
    8 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Dear Port, I found a couple of brand new last-year's model Mieles on eBay for a really great price. They have warranties and everything. So maybe if you have champagne tastes and a beer budget, you could consider that. I was able to attend a live Miele cooking demo, and I was very impressed. I'm tryng to set up one for Gaggenau and Thermador too (they're very similar, but I want to understand the features. I'm also shopping for a second oven, so I'll be following your adventures!

  • HadesHounds
    8 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Gardenwebbers, how goes your search? The stove quotes are rolling in, and now the DH is waffling ("Don't you want one of those Wolfs?"-"No.") Christy McK, did you pull the trigger on a Lacanche? I think it sounds like the perfect stove for you!
    If anybody is looking for a french stove with an island configuration, eBay has a Caumartin (spelled wrong in the search bar, so maybe that's why it's still there-yes the stove has an "a" in it) for an amazing price/ Starting price point is $5K, with a Buy it now option for $8. It's a $40 K stove.
    Ok, just checked my ebay and it went from "starting bid $5000/buy it now $8K to a higher number. Not cool, but still a pretty good buy.
    Here's the link if anybody is interested: http://www.ebay.com/itm/French-Range-Cooking-Island-E-Coumartin-Burgundy-France-/271421815132?pt=BI_Commercial_Ovens_Ranges&hash=item3f3200395c
    This person bought this item from Art Culinaire, the west coast Lacanche dealer when they carried these stoves.
    Trying to decide between a Molteni, an Officine Gullo, and Rorgue (waiting on that quote, plus a Caumartin quote.) Bonnet was the bomb but at least $18k ABOVE the staggering prices of other vendors. As a side note, if you Google Molteni, you get all these articles proclaiming "World's most expensive stove", and "Would you spend $100,000 on a stove?" Then they show a picture of a stove that retails for the low $40's. The "$100,000s" are all the extras you can add into the kitchen-vacumn sealers, rotisseries....the list goes on. Talk about hype! Am absolutely sick trying to compare apples to apples, do the research etc.yah, yah, there could be worse dilemmas, but sure am hearing it from the hubster (who doesn't cook).

  • ChristyMcK
    8 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Hades: Haven't pulled the trigger. We're meeting with contractors and finding out that what we want to do isn't necessarily that cost effective. We want that nailed down before we buy the range. As of late I've been drooling over the french blue color.

  • trinkette1
    Original Author
    8 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Hi gang,
    I've been traveling due to family circumstances and haven't checked-in for a bit. However, I'm still out here on the hunt for my perfect range!

    I'm curious to know how the search is going ChristyMcK, HadesHounds and others. Anyone made a decision yet? All the posts here have been extremely helpful.

    Okay, so, it took me MONTHS, but I finally got to see a Lacanche at an ambassador's home. The range was abut six years old and the owner seemed to have cooking interest/skill pretty close to mine (ie, neither one of us is remotely interested in cleaning the ovens, lol). It was good to see an "in use" range.

    I had to chuckle, before I went to see the range, I had no idea what model it would be or what color; seems the owner couldn't remember either. Turns out it was a Cluny in what was most likely Terra Cotta. And I must say, much to my surprise, the color was quite lovey; it matched the beautiful brick exterior of the owner's antique home - tying indoors and outdoors together - as well as the tile on her floor. If you have an older home, or one with a rustic brick, Terra Cotta is a color to consider. It was not nearly as harsh a color as I'd expected. And it was a lovely contrast to the creams and blues in the owner's home.

    After years of looking at Lacanche's online and reading GW posts, I was heartened to see that the actual range was exactly as I thought it would be. Except for being pleasantly surprised by the Terra Cotta color, there were no surprises - good or bad - at all. So I feel confident in saying that f you read all the GW info regarding Lacanche, you will have a thorough understanding of these ranges.

    Oh sorry - gotta go for now. I've got a little more to report, so I'll continue when I get back ...

  • ChristyMcK
    8 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Trinkette - good to hear your update. I'm a bit obsessive (that might be an understatement!) so I've continued to read, reread, and reread gardenweb threads and to look at different Lacanche ranges online (they're so gorgeous!). I am spending way too much of my life doing this. :)

    I keep coming back to the same combination of the Volnay with a combi steam oven, which gives us two ovens and a warming cupboard + a 5-burner cooktop. I'm going to go with the classique because we water bath can in the summer and I think having that big high heat burner would be more useful for our style of cooking. DH wants what I want on this one.

    I'm also considering the Cluny 1400 but I keep thinking I'd rather have a steam oven and the larger Volnay oven. The Cluny would give me a french plate but it would also reduce precious counter space. The Volnay and my current range are the exact same size and the steam oven will fit in an unused dumb waiter (circa 1939) leaving the existing counter space unaffected.

    My biggest question right now is whether to get a gas oven or an electric oven in the Volnay. I'm leaning toward an electric oven since it has a broiler. We currently use our broiler when we make pizza, which is often. But, we roast more than we bake so that makes me think a gas oven would be better, especially since the steam oven is also an electric oven. But the steam oven would be a moist heat oven so I keep going around and around in circles on this. Any opinions?
    I wish the gas oven had a broiler.

    This will be our first renovation and I'm a bit scared to pull the trigger since there are several parts (getting natural gas put in, changing out oil furnace, altering existing cabinetry, etc). But then I get super excited about finally have my dream cooking appliances. French Blue is the current favorite in terms of color. Miele combi steam oven is the current favorite for that appliance. Decision date TBD. :)

  • trinkette1
    Original Author
    8 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    ChristyMcK, I can't write for long just now (I WILL be back with more, I promise), however I want to quickly say to you that the quandary about the Lacanche gas oven without broiler vs. Lacanche electric oven with broiler has been a sticking point for me. Ideally, I'd like a gas oven with a broiler. Not going to happen with Lacanche. So, if I stick with Lacanche, because I really do want a gas oven (especially if it is Lacanche), I must add another [electric] oven in the range for a dual-oven range, most likely without a warming cabinet because this would give me a larger oven than I want, OR I add a separate wall oven which takes up precious kitchen space I'd rather not dedicate to an oven - which is where I was when this thread began! *SIGH* At the moment, I'm thinking a Cluny with one gas and one electric oven might just be the best Lacanche solution for me.

    To that end, no matter how much I may like a certain range model - regardless of brand - when I start getting down to the nuts and bolts of what features I want, what works for our house, what fits in the space, what appeals to me design-wise, and what we feel comfortable spending (taking into account the additional expense of a fan/vent/hood) there is always something that doesn't "fit" the plan, unless, of course, I want to shell out $37K+ for a La Cornue Chateau or similar.

  • ChristyMcK
    8 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Trinkette: I wonder why the Lacanche gas ovens don't have a broiler. I'd go with that option too if they had it and would prefer it over the electric since we don't bake that much.

    You might consider a small 24" oven (steam or otherwise). They are only ~18" tall and the interior cavity is just a bit smaller than the cluny ovens. Not to make your choice harder but with the two cluny ovens you don't get low temps (80F) for proofing bread, making yogurt, though this might not matter to you.

    At the end of the day, you are right - it really has to fit with your context and budget and what trade offs you are willing to make given your space.

  • trinkette1
    Original Author
    8 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    ChristyMcK, proofing bread and making yogurt were two reasons I thought a warming cupboard would be most useful. I'd love to have one, however, I'm not sure I want to add the component to the REST of the components that I desire - not only does the range begin to get bigger than I need for my small family, but also, the size and expense of a hood must be considered.

    If Lacanche made a gas oven with broiler, I'd get that in a heartbeat, plus a warming cabinet. We'd be done!

    For what it is worth, the Cluny owner with whom I recently visited said she regularly bakes bread in her electric oven (she admitted to just about never using the gas oven and it showed!) and she is extremely happy with her range. She proofs dough by setting the electric oven to the lowest temp, 150 degrees, and letting it warm-up. Then she puts the dough inside and turns the oven off while the dough rises. Also, she said that she has forgotten to turn-off the oven on occasion and it all worked out just fine.

  • ChristyMcK
    8 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    I've also heard that putting a hot cup of water in the oven at the lowest temp which is then turned off also helps the proofing. I've had many a useful yogurt maker over the years so it's definitely not a necessity. Do you really think a gas oven is that different? They say gas is moist and electric dry but over the years using both in different homes I'm not sure I can actually tell. None of these ranges were special - just in rentals - and none had convection. I could see how convection might dry things out but I think the Volnay has a toggle so I could choose convection or not. Anyway, the journey continues!

  • trinkette1
    Original Author
    8 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    As far as the gas vs. electric oven goes, I am by no means an expert on the matter and I know there are *experts* out there with years of cooking/baking experience who swear allegiance to one or the other. When I began this thread, I wanted a dual fuel range - basically a gas cooktop with electric oven and broiler. If I couldn't have the electric broiler or a great electric oven in the range, then I was willing to add a wall oven. Then, as I thought about my own experiences and gleaned more information via my research, I decided that I really might prefer just one oven, and I'd prefer it to be gas. Only, I'd like the gas to have a broiler (Bluestar and La Cornue fit the bill here, but I still liked the Lacanche with the gas oven, so I was back to considering the addition of a wall oven, which I can do, but it really complicates the space in my kitchen).

    Also when I began, I was willing to pile on whatever range components I wanted, ie, if I needed a 42" or larger range to get all the specific burner and oven elements I was looking for then so be it (French plate, four burners - one with low simmer and one high-heat producer - warming oven, gas oven, electric oven with broiler ... my list was endless). However, now, I've changed my approach. I'm trying to whittle-down on size and components to try to get the range as "lean and mean" as I can while still having everything (or near-everything) I want. And this is not necessarily about the money - although it is a part of the puzzle.

    The plain truth is, I have a very small family and a small kitchen prep area. So smaller is better. And if we ever move, a large range may not appeal to potential buyers and it may not fit into wherever I land next. However, a smaller range is easier to take with me - or leave behind. Yes, I could put in a larger model range - like the Lacanche Sully models - the range could span an entire wall (omitting the need for lower cabinets), and it would look great. But, again, I get into issues of how desirable such a range is for resale of my specific home (which is NOT fancy or large), practical issues including the weight of such a sizable range on my already sagging floor, and the expense of a properly sized vent and hood, not to mention MUA issues.

    In the end, it may be that trying to whittle-down the size right now is just part of the process. I could still land somewhere in the middle - the dual-oven Lacanche Cluny is a VERY solid option. Or I could go whole hog and end up with the Sully 2200. Or La Cornue. Time will tell. It is all about juggling cost, practicality, aesthetics, and performance with my expectations and being able to live happily with my decision in the end.

    Regarding convection, I'm very sensitive to noise, and the house I'm in now already has annoyingly loud systems. So I'm willing to forgo whatever gain the convection brings to the table just for the sake of my ears. If what I end up with comes with convection, then, certainly, I'll give it a try. And I may prefer it. But for now, the convection is not a must-have.

    Of course, ChristyMcK, "the journey" is half the fun!

  • trinkette1
    Original Author
    8 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Thoughts after visiting a Lacanche ambassador with a Classique Cluny range in terra cotta:

    The Good:
    • Owner said she LOVES her range. She has one electric and one gas oven (I don't THINK the electric is convection).
    • Owner uses electric oven regularly and rarely uses gas oven.
    • Owner admitted to doing minimal cleaning/care for range.
    • Range looks just as I expected it would - thanks to GW reports and Art Culinaire info.
    • Range is lovely to look at overall. Brass hardware was patinated.
    • Owner proofs and bakes bread in electric oven regularly and is pleased with results.
    • Owner uses two mid-range burners most frequently.
    • Oven doors to smaller Cluny ovens take-up minimal space when open - something that could make a significant difference in a tight space.
    • Smaller sized Cluny ovens appear amply sized for most uses.
    • Smaller scale oven racks were easy to glide out and moved smoothly. Owner showed how racks, and brackets on oven walls, could be adjusted easily.
    • Owner pointed out heavy double-burner grates and said they were easy to move about and clean. They were in like-new condition.
    • Owner loved "simplicity" of her range operations.
    • Owner was very pleased with Art Culinaire and service.

    The Worth Noting:
    • Owner admitted that when range was newer (said she thought it was about 6 years old now), she'd had two separate issues that required servicing. I am not remembering EXACTLY what they were, so I am not going to mention specifics, however, there were issues that needed fixing.
    • Owner's range showed large scratches on stainless surfaces. This is not a product issue, but more of a user issue, however, I thought I'd mention it. Stainless looked great otherwise.
    • The range I saw had the top-rear-mounted stainless wall spacer attached, which put the range several inches away from the wall behind it. Her range was set alongside a doorway, so that when next to the range, you could easily see the side of the range as well as the 6 inches, or so, of open space behind the range, under the spacer. Owner said she'd been surprised when her range arrived to see the spacer and to see how far the range set from the wall - of course this impacts how far it juts out from the counter as well. It also impacts the floor space in front of the range, especially when an oven door is open. None of this is a problem, it just needs to be taken into account when you plan your kitchen space. I said I thought the spacer was necessary because her wall behind the range was not heat/fire-proof and that there are other options.
    • Owner said burners are HOT and she would benefit from using a diffuser at times.
    • Owner wishes she'd gotten the French plate or Traditional model as opposed to the Classique; she is interested in the simmer capabilities of the French plate, especially because the burners are all relatively hot, and she uses the big burner infrequently - usually with a HUGE Le Creuset round pot.
    • When I sat at the table and looked sideways at the range, I noticed the oven doors and drawers below were not all lined-up. They looked somewhat "wonky," if that makes sense. Owner agreed, but said she still loves her range. I'm thinking she might have said that this happened during servicing (when one door was taken off). However, again, I'm not sure I'm remembering her words exactly. Moreover, I know that the lower drawers are soft-close now, so this may be a non-issue.
    • Owner expressed what many other owners have written in GW, something like: "It's not perfect, but I LOVE my Lacanche." This "it's not perfect" or "It's not for everyone" preamble concerned me for awhile. But then I decided that most Lacanche owners seem to have a realistic view of their ranges and graciously accept their imperfections, if there are any. Somehow, the loveliness and overall performance of the range along with the care and attention put forth by the folks at Art Culinaire seem to outweigh everything else.

  • PRO
    Deck The Halls
    8 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Trinkette, Thank you for the excellent review of the Cluny you visited! I have researched so many ranges, cooktops and ovens, but I keep returning to the Lacanche. I have yet to see one in person, although I recently learned there was one within a 10 minute walk of where I lived last. Unfortunately, I wasn't in the market for a range then and I had no idea it was so close! Not seeing one in person makes your review even more important to me! Are you any closer to deciding?

  • joeboldt
    8 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    "it's not perfect" or "It's not for everyone"

    We've had ours since 2005, and I would agree with that statement. But, somewhere along the line you just have to think you've done enough analysis and buy something. There is no question in my mind I wouldn't buy the exact same stove.

  • trinkette1
    Original Author
    8 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    joeboldt, I've been thinking about you and your pizza-baking Cluny - since we regularly make pizza here, you affirmation that it can be done successfully in the smaller ovens is noteworthy.

    And, I agree with your comment about there being a time to finish-up the analysis and buy something. Actually, I'm pretty sure I'm there (well, ALMOST!), although I'll be waiting just a few more weeks/months in order to finish-up the rest of our remodeling plans before I jump.

    Regardless, now that you've brought it up, joeboldt, I'm eager to learn what range you'd purchase today if you had to do it all over again?

  • trinkette1
    Original Author
    8 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Cori4137, glad I could help. I realize my posts are lengthy, so my apologies for that!

  • joeboldt
    8 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Sorry, trinkette, terrible sentence. I would buy the exact same stove. Burgundy cluny.

  • trinkette1
    Original Author
    8 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Ahhh, joeboldt, I get it! Thanks. FWIW, I understand your attraction and loyalty to the Cluny. It's where I began years ago and now, after thoroughly checking out dozens of ranges from various brands and price points, I find myself right back where I began ...

  • workingondreamhouse
    8 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    I have been meaning to post something for awhile now and this seemed as good a place as any. So many people on this forum were so helpful when we were picking out appliances so I felt the need to put in my 2 cents. We looked at every "french style" range out there. I will admit, my decision was based purely on looks. My goodness, I fell hard when I saw a picture of one of these! And yes, we bought the Sully 1800 sight unseen. We had seen a La Cornue and a CornuFe, a Blue Star, an Aga and maybe one other Italian brand. We ended up building the kitchen around it (literally and figuratively). It is the focal point and we had to bring it in and then finish building the walls to the kitchen. It is never leaving this house will all the kitchen walls intact!

    We chose the Sully 1800 with the warming cabinet. I wanted a model with two full sized ovens so that I would not need wall ovens. We have a french top which we never use - it was the extra burner over the warming drawer - perhaps someday I will figure out what to use it for but as of now, I don't really need it. I cook every day - at least two meals a day. We have a large family and I am frequently cooking for 8-10 and we have 5 burners open for every day use. I am not positive of the exact numbers. We use the 18,000 burner with a 14" pan at least once a day. WE debated getting the la planche (I think that's what it's called - the built in grill) but opted for the cast iron plate and the splash guard. We love it! Pancakes, hamburgers, grilled chicken...BUT its REALLY heavy - I would only get it if you have room to leave it out all the time as we do.

    So what else - ours is black. I did NOT chicken out of a color. Had black not been the default color, I would have chosen black anyway. I LOVE color, but I like changing color and I did not want to stove to always dictate the colors of the kitchen.

    I was surprised how well everything worked. We have never had it serviced. Our appliance installers found it simple to install (or at least no different than other gas stoves). It is level, the grates are heavy and stay in place. The brass has patina, except for the two burners under the iron grill plate.

    We have a gas oven (used infrequently, but it works well) and an electric with convection. I do not find the convection fan to be loud. We use the convection oven very frequently. WE do have to take the racks out a lot. There are three racks per oven so unless you're baking three racks of cookies at once (which I have done - works great!) you need to remove racks for larger cookware.

    I am not a neat freak - but I do clean the top about every day or every other day pretty thoroughly. The stainless is not a shiny stainless that shows everything, it has a brushed finish so that it looks great even if there are som e scratches or streaks.

    Only thing I thought I would love and don't is the warming oven. It says that it has moist heat to keep food from drying out but I haven't seen that to be true. It's pretty narrow so only certain trays or plates will fit into it. Actually, I found a recent use which I like a lot - our crock pot got broken so I'm using the warming drawer and a le crueset dutch oven as a slow cooker.So far working pretty well!

    It does sit about 6 inches from the wall but we had a fabulous kitchen designer who took everything into consideration and made sure the flanking cabinets were deeper than normal. We also purchased the "island spacer" so that the backs plash (which is a marble slab) comes all he way down to the counter.

    It works best with a powerful range hood and ours works great but it it definitely loud!

    I can't think of what else to say other than I love it. In my mind there are no downsides or imperfections (except the price!), other than the fact that there aren't self cleaning ovens. BTW - anyone out there have a suggestion for a product to clean the inside of the oven?!

  • PRO
    Deck The Halls
    8 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Workingondreamhouse,
    Thank you for sharing, your Lacanche experience. I cook for 6 everyday, so hearing you can cook for 8-10 with only the Sully is very promising. I am surprised about your comments on the warming drawer. Although, my main reason for wanting it is for slow cooking. But, your comments have made me decide I should measure my plates to see how they will fit. I am considering the Citeaux that has an oven the same size as the warming drawer, so the size could be a factor.

    I also am a big fan of the black for the same reasons as you, black goes with everything. I do love some of the colors though as does my husband and a color would be a big statement. But, I need to decide if I'd love the color in years to come.

    It is very reassuring to hear that you bought the range sight in seen and
    that overall you love it! I have yet to see a Lacanche in person, but hope
    to this summer. It's such a major investment, it just has to be right as I will have to live with it for a very long time!

    May I ask how long you have had your range?

    Thank you again for sharing your experiences!

  • workingondreamhouse
    8 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Cori4137
    You will love it, the black is beautiful. To prove my point, I would pick a different color now than I would have 2 years ago!

    Just to clarify, we have the Sully 1800 which is huge (72” long) with 5 slots for burners. We have 7 burners (3 double, one large single) and the frenchtop. The ovens are large enough for anything we have tried, including 25lb turkeys.

    Our range was installed 5/2012 and it gets quite a work out on a daily basis. Its really easy to use, even my kids can use it without difficulty.

    The gas oven is a little tricky to figure out how to turn on and I don’t understand why there is not a “preheat” light for the gas oven, only the electric oven. Just seems strange. We don’t use it that often so its really not a big deal.

    The warming drawer is pretty narrow and we seem to leave it on all night when I use it because the kids forget to turn it off, but that’s probably just my family!

    ENJOY!

  • trinkette1
    Original Author
    8 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Workingondreamhouse, thanks for your input! I'm most interested to read your take on the warming cabinet. It's something I'd like to use in several ways, however, I'm considering leaving it off in favor of two ovens instead. I could add a cabinet, but I think I'd be happier in the end with a smaller range over all. Still not sure.

    Also, when I began this thread, I was torn between purchasing a range with "everything I need," whatever THAT may be, lol, or splitting the work detail between a smaller range and an electric wall oven. Due to the tight space I have in my kitchen, at this point I'm leaning toward keeping the oven(s) to just a range and skipping the wall oven because it just complicates the layout scenario. Still, I know there are some marvelous wall ovens out there and I'd love to have one that's eye-level ...

    Although I'm fairly certain I know where I'm headed, I'm still sorting through all I've learned, including opinions regarding certain brands that do "better" with gas ovens vs. other brands which are said to excel with electric; some brands note differences in burner BTUs for natural gas and burner BTUs for LP gas (which is what we have) and others note no difference at all; then there is gas vs. electric oven availability in a particular brand or size (ie, I didn't realize until recently that Lacanche's Rully only comes in electric); broiler availability (no broilers in Lacanche gas ovens vs. broilers in La Cornue gas and BlueStar, for example), warming cabinet availability (only Lacanche), French plate availability and BTUs (lower in La Cornue); burner configurations; open burners vs. sealed burners; hob materials; service reputatation; sales support ... the list goes on and on! And of course, there's what we cook to consider plus range size and cost ... so many combinations - and the more you dig, the more differences you come up with. And that's before I even get to COLOR!

    When I'm in the kitchen, I find myself saying, "Okay, I'm about to do such-and-such now, which range/oven/burner do I want to use?

  • workingondreamhouse
    8 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Trinkette:
    We went through similar considerations. Once I saw the open burners, Blue Star was out for me. The two ovens in the Sully 1800 are being enough and provide enough oven capacity. We do have a microwave drawer in the island, but other than that, all cooking is focused in one appliance. I really like that. We have a large kitchen and I didn't want to be running all over to do different things!

    I think bottom line, all of these high end ranges perform exceptionally well for the casual, home cook. A true chef may be able to discern differences, but they are lost on me. I love our range. It's absolutely gorgeous. And when you add the prices of double ovens and a 48-60" range, it's truly not that much more.

    Good luck. You really can't go wrong.

  • joeboldt
    8 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    "When I'm in the kitchen, I find myself saying, "Okay, I'm about to do such-and-such now, which range/oven/burner do I want to use?"

    That's a great way to figure this stuff out!

  • HadesHounds
    8 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Dear Gardenwebbers, I haven't posted in a while but have been following every single word you have all typed-I've turning into a stove stalker ROFLOL!
    Of all the threads I've read over the past year regarding stoves, this is the only one whose posters have actually taken the time to break down the decision-making into the critical components. Not just reviews or opinion, but usage, wear, cost, BTUs, options,even the way the stove sticks out from the walls and integrates into the space. Well done!!You have no idea how helpful you've been!
    I still haven't made a decision, but I'm inching closer. Like a few of you, I took a step back and asked what I really needed/had to have. One of you rightly pointed out that deciding whether one is a stove top or oven cooker could help out. My ovens are super important to me, and have been the big sticking point in my choices (more on that in a minute) but I do most of my cooking on the stovetop.I REALLY want a coup de feu.If I pick the two burner one coup combination offered by Molteni or Gullo, I'll have to really up my cooking game and plan a bit more ahead (you have to allow the plaque to come to temperature to really use it effectively. So I was concerned I wouldn't have enough "regular" burners.But then, like you all advised, I took a step back and paid attention to what I was really doing "most" days-turns out I'm usually only turning on two burners anyway. When i move to more burners, that's when I could use a million more, so the coup definitely could work out then. I'm still kind of intimidated by it-the Molteni and the others I'm considering are very powerful, but I think that's just lack of self confidence.
    Burner strength/BTU's were very important to me as well. I currently have an old Wolf Gourmet line-they were better made than the current offering, heavier and more powerful.The max burner is 18K, but it loses power when the other ones are turned on, and then I can't get that nice carmelized sear on the food. I love the oven though. It's gas with a broiler and a (very noisy) convection fan, and sticky racks. Don't love the noise and the stick, but the size is pretty good, and it works well. All the units I'm considering are more powerful, but some more than others.Like everyone has noted, the ovens seem to be what pose the most dilemmas.
    I worry about cleanability. My current stove is a PITA to clean.The Rorgue has a neat water bath under the burners to rinse out spills-cool!It's also the least expensive of my three choices (So far. Am waiting on the cost of the UL listing fee, plus I have to add in taxes and VAT) but I can have every little gadget I had lusted for(of course, I'm now really rethinking everything). But it's the least pretty/french range looking of the batch. It does come in colors though.
    I'm nervous that if i select a range with two ovens that I won't be able to use them for what I occasionally need-larger sheets and pans, so I'm really leaning towards one gas oven in the range, and a Miele Masterchef 30" in the wall, which is 6" bigger than my current oven (I have a few pans that I really have to grease up the sides of the oven to squeeze in). I'm going to a Gaggenau cooking demo at Purcell-Murray this weekend and check out their ovens too. Anybody have some feedback on those?
    I'm also considering getting a smaller range and adding in two induction burners into the counter for quickie cooking for the kids (I have five). I could have had them built into a bespoke range, but the electric components have to be kept far away from a high heat source, which screwed up the size of the unit massively
    Our quotes from the contractors are coming-scary! I just wanted to thank everyone for all the input-every single comment has been so helpful. Oh, on a side note, there's a ROCKIN' Morice stove for sale that I found on the internet. It's not the right color for em (it's blue and silver) but maybe it would work out for you. It's got 3/4 burners (one is a single grate but with two burners under it-is that one or two?LOL) and a coup de feu. The oven is electric. I've (hopefully!) included the link. Parts are still available for the Morices. If it had been a different color, I would have jumped on it-great price. well, I'll be continuing to follow everybody's stove progress, and hope to have a stove too. Soon...

    Here is a link that might be useful: Sea Sales Morice cooker

  • HadesHounds
    8 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Dear Garden Webbers, I forgot to add that there's a E. Caumartin on Ebay too for someone looking for an island application. I would have been all over it if it had fit into my design.How come I'm finding everything but what I want??LOL

  • ChristyMcK
    8 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Trinkette: Sorry for my delayed response - we were on vacation and I was not checking email. Thanks for your detailed thoughts on the oven situation. I keep going back and forth but would like to pull the trigger soon so hopefully the range can be made and shipped before the August holiday in France. I'm leaning toward electric right now because the broiler will go to 700F. It's hard to rely on the Miele broiler in the steam oven because it only goes to 437F and that doesn't seem like much of a broiler. Gas vs. electric oven is my last decision. DH is leaving it up to me.

    Thanks also for your thorough review of your cooking experience - makes me even more confident in the decision. We are going to tile the back wall so we do not need the spacer and get the range a bit closer to the wall. Glad too that you clarified with Joeboldt re: his decision to buy the exact same range again - I was also confused when I read it.

    workingondreamhouse: Is there a particular reason you use the electric more than the gas oven? (Trying to decide which one to go with). We'll have a 2nd wall oven that's a steam oven. If you had to chose only one Lacanche oven which would you choose?

  • trinkette1
    Original Author
    8 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    ChristyMcK, obviously, I [still] have no personal experience working on a Lacanche, however, somewhere along the line I came to the conclusion that if I could only have ONE oven I'd prefer that it be gas. Especially with Lacanche: I remember reading here and there that some folks noticed their electric Lacanche ovens did not always appear to be heating evenly. I don't recall whether these were the smaller, Cluny-sized ovens, the larger ovens, or both. Still, as far as I could tell, no one thought it was enough of an issue to make them unhappy with their Lacanche. By contrast, I don't ever recall reading that someone was unhappy with the cooking/baking performance of their gas Lacanche oven. Perhaps an owner can chime in here.

    As I stated earlier, the only issue I have with Lacanche gas ovens is that there is no broiler. This makes a range like the Cluny, with one gas and one electric oven, VERY appealing.

    Of course, if you are more of a baker than a roaster, you MAY prefer electric over gas. Still, I bet the cookies coming out of the gas ovens are quite yummy ... Is there a baker out there with an all-gas Lacanche?

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