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soldierpyz

Need pattern ID on Noritake china set from occupied Japan!

soldierpyz
14 years ago

Hello everyone,

I have recently come into possession of my grandmother's set of Noritake china that her husband (my grandfather... naturally) bought for her after WWII. It is a beautiful 12 place setting set with a mark that states "Noritake China - (M in wreath) - made in occupied Japan". The only issue is there is no pattern name or number on the mark, and I have had no luck searching for similar pieces. Please help me identify this pattern, as I'd like to replace two missing bread-and-butter plates to make a complete set. I know this is a daunting task, what with there being 400+ marks and near countless patterns made by Noritake and all, but thanks for any information you are willing to share!

Pics below, let me know if they don't work...





http://s908.photobucket.com/albums/ac285/SoldierPyz/Noritake%20China/

Comments (39)

  • lindac
    14 years ago

    I suggest up email that picture to Replacements or Beverly Bremer or Tabletops...
    Surely you realize what a very special thing you have being labeled Occupied Japan?
    I would guess you can replace a piece in the same pattern, but perhaps not with the occupied label.
    It's lovely......you are very lucky!
    Linda C

  • soldierpyz
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    Thanks for the tip, I will surely do that. Actually the Occupied Japan label was what piqued my interest originally. I have always had a fascination with historical 'artifacts' and this set fits the bill! Thanks again.

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  • lindac
    14 years ago

    Does every piece have the OJ mark?
    I am guessing that immediately after the end of the war that Noritaki wasn't cranking out china sets....So this may be rather late in the period. And a bit of an oddity....there was a lot of schlock that made it's way here with the OJ mark....but I have seen precious little "good stuff".
    Linda C

  • sharonann z5 Ont
    14 years ago

    There are some on Ebay. 2nd picture from the end, really shows the pattern.

    Sharon

    Here is a link that might be useful: Ebay

  • soldierpyz
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    Thanks for the link! unfortunately the seller doesn't know the pattern name either, bummer.

  • sunnyca_gw
    14 years ago

    Beautiful!! I looked through my Nippon, 3rd series Collector's Encyclopedia of Nippon porcelain by Joan F. Van Patten & nothing like it in that book. Might try the replacement services & type in Noritake or Morimura Bros occupied Japan dinnerware & they should have some come up. You have a lovely set!!

  • Fori
    14 years ago

    Is this it? I can't tell because replacements . ltd has such a bad picture, but it could be, from a distance.

    All I know is it sure isn't MY pattern! :)

    Here is a link that might be useful: A possible match at Replacements

  • soldierpyz
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    Thank you all for your help, I sent in the pictures to replacements.com as suggested and they got back to me in 2 days with the pattern! It's called Lynbrook. Thanks again everyone.

  • fenestrationman
    14 years ago

    We have a 12 piece set that is identical to yours. When we bought our new old house, we purchased it from the owners family. Some is marked made in occupied Japan and others are not.
    We use it for special occasions only.

  • bgolson_charter_net
    13 years ago

    I have this same set of Noritake China with Occupied Japan on the back. I had it identifed by picture from Replacements, Ltd. and it's called "Fiesta". I inherited it from my aunt. Be careful because Noritake also made a set called Fiesta which was NOT Occupied Japan.

  • igloochic
    13 years ago

    I have oddles of similar Noritake pieces (something like a service for fourty or fifty cuz I'm addicted and keep buying LOL) but from what I've learned, it's likely your piece is from after they reopened the export office in 48 (it closed export to the US in 1941) so it could be 48 to about 53 or 2...I forget, it was a short period of time.

    It gets a bit confusing (though Noritake will clarify if you contact them) Stuff with the M in a wreath goes back to the teens (around 1915 or so to 1940) but the mark you have was started in 1946. The made in Occupied Japan stamp is particular to the period of the late 40's to the early 50's (I'm remembering like 47 or 8 to 52? Your piece could have been made 46 or later (but not beyond the early 50's without being specified at the factory to be shipped to the US market, hence the OJ mark not being on all pieces).

    Anyhoo, you can find two pieces with the same pattern from the same period and both will not necessarily have the OJ mark on them and yet, they were both made in the same place at the same time. It makes things more confusing to say the least. The Clay Museaum can also help clarify time periods if you really want to learn more :)

    I love this china (can you tell) and started collecting it to mix and match when we have large gatherings. We use it everyday as well as on special occasions. There are many patterns that flow well together (I have some of yours as well and often use it with different colors of the same period in similar designs).

    You may want to keep an eye out for it on shopgoodwill dot com where it often comes up at rediculiously cheap prices, much better than the replacement prices. Too many people don't value this stuff and as their parents and grandparents die they give it to the goodwill. Almost all of mine came from there and i'd guess I pay on average maybe ten bucks a place setting...sometimes less. They often have stray pieces like what you're missing.

    Don't just use this for special occasions. Your china is beautiful and special....save it for special people maybe, but make sure those people are your family as well. The reason this stuff is abandoned is because people saved it for special occasions and didn't teach their children to appreciate the beauty of this china. My 5 year old eats on this regularly as do my guests and family. My son loves to pick his favorite plate (he goes for the big bling...noritake with lots of gold gilt on the edges and in the pattern). Honor your grandmother ;) She'd probably love to look down and see your children enjoying the china too!

    I have an awful lot of bread and butter plates. I'll look through and see if I have any in the pattern you have and if so I'd be happy to complete your grandmothers set if you just promise to use it! I'll email you if I have any. I just got a bunch in the mail while I was in napa and I think it was blue...

  • lindac
    13 years ago

    The OJ mark on Noritake was used from 1948 until 1952.
    They may have produced that same pattern after that, but did not need to mark it OJ after the Occupation.

    Fine porcelain is very sturdy stuff. I use a set as my everyday dishes. In 25 years the only time I have broken any was when a table collapsed ( don't ask!)

    But my personal story is not helping you find the name of your pattern so you can find more.
    There are Noritake collectors clubs...search, I am sure one of them can help put a name to your pattern.
    Linda c

  • igloochic
    13 years ago

    Gad linda sometimes you just crack me up.

  • lindac
    13 years ago

    You too, darlin' Glad you have "oddles" of the stuff.
    And you do take a lot of words to say the bare facts...
    Tell me again how you helped the OP with her question?

  • igloochic
    13 years ago

    I shared history of the pieces with her because I love the stuff :) I didn't need to share the pattern name because if you read above, she knew it by the time I posted.

    I shared the mark's history as well as cleared up the misconception that was shared that it's a rare thing, also that she can find it with and without the OJ mark to fill in her set and why a piece from the same period wouldn't have that mark. I told her when they were "cranking out" the china with that mark and unfortuantely that while it's not a rare thing it's still cool because there is a lot of good "schlock" that came from that period, but perhaps it's not passed through your hands?

    I find it refreshing to share real details on things I love because if I love them I research them. I suppose after being given the hints I put in my post you were able to come back with something better than "check replacements" so perhaps I should have researched verses answering from the top of my head.

    It's never valuable to tell someone that something they have is rare when it's not. Is it cool and special...sure :) It's lovely china...I started collecting it last year and adore the stuff, but it's not rare even with the mark so I personally prefer to not lead her astray.

    Different techniques I guess....I prefer to answer with the real information verses spitting out a snark (which you see here in this forum far too often). Being a frequent buyer of this stuff I also like to share my source incase she wants to keep her eye out at my source for a great deal verses buying at retail at replacements. Silly stuff I guess but still, I like to share my source.

    OP, I do love your china...and I looked but what I was thinking was the blue pattern you have is actually a soft green :( But like I said, watch shopgoodwill dot come and you may be able to add to your set over time inexpensively or do what I do and mix in other pieces of similar patterns from the period (which is gorgeous on a set table). If you didn't get my gist...I think it's pretty :) So pretty I can't resist it! I wish mine had come with the house heh heh I actually did get a lovely set of china in a deep blue and burgundy that I need to trade in for more of the noritake of this period...but I haven't sorted it out yet. If you don't have any depression glass to use with your settings, look to the light blue and pinks which would be fabo gorgeous with your pattern!

  • pinch_me
    13 years ago

    I have a similar pattern in pink, gold and tan. It's been packed away for a long time because I don't have anywhere to display it. I'm afraid it would end up in the microwave if it were accessable. I came "that close" to getting it out after the big kitchen remodel. So sorry to bore those not interested in MY pattern but I, too, love it and felt the need to bond with igloochick and soldierpyz. Those who don't care can just skip reading me.

  • igloochic
    13 years ago

    It sounds pretty pinch me. You should find a way to use it :) Even if it's just that once a year deal it's fun to set the table with stuff you adore!

    The patterns from this period were so nice. I particularly love that many flow really well together. I'd wager your set would look fabulous with soldiers! And probably most of mine :)

    I keep thinking I'll sort the stuff and list the names so I can find them easily but I never get around to it and they just get mixed up again after a party LOL But heck, they look good that way so I guess it works!

    it's fun to read that others love this china. I think part of the reason I was able to purchase so much is that so many don't use china these days, which is sort of sad really :( I feel like the china rescue mission on occasions heh heh, someone has to save them!!

  • pinch_me
    13 years ago

    I bought mine in the mid '60's! I used to use it a lot but now, with just me, I don't dig into boxes so often. I do have quite a stash of orphan bread and butter plates that I do use for every day. New plate for every meal! I also have quite a few orphan dinner plates but I'm trying to do the smaller plate/smaller portion. It sorta works. Sometimes.

    My set looks good with the old gold colored swirly glasses also from the 60's.

    I seem to be on the same Save The China Mission with just plates.

  • lindac
    13 years ago

    The reason the Noritake from the 40's and 50's is so cheap and plentiful is because the Japanese, ever the masters at copying something and producing it for less, copied the great English bone china patterns in style and feeling. They were marketing to the Americans even in the early years of the 20th century. They made their patterns in the style of Wedgwood, Royal Doulton, Ainsley etc. But their wares were much cheaper.
    So brides who didn't feel comfortable registering fine bone china could register a Noritake pattern and be reasonably assured of being able to set a table with china.
    Then WW II came and the American soldiers brought it home for Mom, Gram and their wives. The PX sold sets of Noritake, both during and after the occupation and there was lots of it everywhere.
    Because it was inexpensive, it wasn't passed down to grand daughter and ended up in the thrift shops for not a lot of money.And as with all things ephemeral, it has become "collectable".
    You will find lots more 'sets' of Noritake of the period than English bone china. If you are trying to amass a set of the same pattern, that will be more difficult because there was so many made. Unlike English patterns many of which have been offered for 60 or more years, Noritake patterns were discontinued after 5 years at the most.

    Enjoy your grandma's china, I am sure it was important to her.
    Sure you can buy lots of Noritake at the thrift store, but while similar, it's unlikely to be the same pattern as your grandma picked out.
    Linda C

  • moonshadow
    13 years ago

    igloo, I know you're super busy juggling projects and little human, but if you ever have time, I'd love to see a pic as an example of your mix 'n match style. I have some small bowls from my M-I-L, I love the pattern and shape. (It's good stuff, she only bought quality, her own nice dishes were used daily and really lasted. These little bowls are more everyday than fancy. I'm too lazy right now to go upstairs and rummage through the cabinet for the name, but have seen odds & ends in that pattern on ebay.)

    I need to get new dishes. I see a lot of yellows this spring that I like. Occurs to me a nice yellow would go really well with the florals rimming the little bowls from MIL. Matchy-matchy kind of bores me. So you're giving me ideas here. ;)

  • igloochic
    13 years ago

    I have to take some more pics :) I only have a christmas one...mind you, the platter you see in the forefront really does not "go" but I use it because it's the only platter I have that is large enough for DH's silver dome (his christmas present). The platter is 1830's, the china is a mix from victorian to 1940's as is the glass ware and silver (again...I know the platter does not work LOL):

    {{gwi:1375422}}

    This is a pic a bit further out...this was just a small meal with family so I didn't have as much mixing going on as I do for a party of 15 or 20...that's really fun because you can mix so much more of the stuff on a few tables.

    {{gwi:1375423}}

    This is a little set up I did for the caterer that was doing our charity tea. That was the reason I started really collecting, so we could do a seven course formal tea...which requires a lot of china LOL This was the setting as the guest finds it when they enter, then it kept changing out with different stuff for each course so I really got to get out all of the goodies :)

    {{gwi:1375424}}

    I also have a few sets of vintage silverplate as you can see in that last setting. It all flows wonderfully if you stick to a general style...ie for me it's the softer chinas with depression glass, silver and crystal. I would love someday to do another sort of fun mix after picking up a bunch of old english pieces like that big platter (it came in wonderful colors from mulburry to indigo to black). I'd start collecting now but DH says if I buy another dish he's gonna hit me with it LOL He has a point...I'll probably wait until we get the butlers pantry back in place because now I have the stuff scattered between several amoires. The music room is now the dish room :P

  • moonshadow
    13 years ago

    Thank ya :) That's a festive Christmas table! I also like the mixed glass colors. (Nice platter, btw!)

  • antiquesilver
    13 years ago

    Y'all keep rescuing the china & I'll do my part for the Victorian silver.......because someone has to! You never know when you might need soup-to-nuts service for 30. Or 40.

    I'd love to see a setting that accents that drop dead gorgeous platter.

  • KNail
    13 years ago

    Wondered if you found any answers about your Nortake China. I have some of the same exact pattern, passed down from my great grandmother. Looking for information, too. Thanks!

  • katie_hen_gmail_com
    12 years ago

    I have a 12 piece place setting exactly like this with serving dishes (ie a platter and two serving bowls and a sugar bowl) I just got it yesterday from my grandmother, whose father had purchased it and mailed it back while he was stationed in Japan. THANK YOU for starting this, as now I know a little about the pattern and history of the China! I love the idea of the history and the beauty of the China! I can't wait to tell my gma what I have found out!

  • igloochic
    12 years ago

    Antique Silver...I just saw this post :) Isn't that platter a honey? I loved it when I saw it and couldn't walk away LOL And it will eventually have a service of it's own to go with it :) I plan on doing the various colors of transferware on ironstone for our family dining room. I am probably going to display it on old english pine...but that's still in the brain storming phase :)

  • jfelix62608
    12 years ago

    CAN YOU GUYS HELP ME WITH MINE? I HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM AS THE ORIGINAL POST..I HAVE BEEN RESEARCHING ONLINE FOR HOURS, AND I CANT FIND ANYTHING..PLEASE.



  • jfelix62608
    12 years ago

    THANKS I'LL DO THAT!

  • lindac
    12 years ago

    A clearer picture of the mark would help.....and reposting to a new thread.....all of the replies to this thread go to the email of the original poster and your china is really a new subject.

  • michellebaskind_gmail_com
    12 years ago

    To igloochick: what is the pattern name of the vegetable bowl on your table? I have a set of 12 dishes, etc. from that pattern and do not know what it is...

  • featherfalls
    12 years ago

    What a relief!

    I have the exact same set of china (brought from Japan by my great-grandfather). Several of the teacups were broken back in the 50s, but were never replaced because my great-grandmother didn't know the name of the pattern. She carried a photo of the pattern in her purse for years, then gave it to me when she passed on the dishes to me. I have been searching for months, and it is such a relief to know that I can get those teacups replaced and have a full set of china again! Thank you so much!

  • pollypollyester
    12 years ago

    Yes, this is the Lynbrook #4724. I own this exact set as well. From looking at your pictures I am missing a couple of pieces that I didn't know about, so thank you for the post. If you look on the bottom of the coffee cups, the name of the collection and number is printed. I know I know your going to be thinking you did all that research and you had it there all along, I speak from experience. The pattern identification is only printed on the coffe cups. A little more history to you occupied china - These piece were stamped "occupied" during World War II while America occupied Japan. These products were made for export purposes. It was actually a law that the pieces had to be identified as "occupied". On some of the older piece, you may see were the occupied Japan stamp is a different color than the Noritake stamp, this is because the occupied stamp had to be added to pieces that were produced before the passing of the law. After the signing of the Peace Treaty, the law was demolished; therefore, the occupied stamp was no longer used. If your coffe cups do not have the "Lynbrook 4724 stamp" will you please let me know, because mine do and I would like to be certain that they are original pieces. Thank you

  • calliope
    12 years ago

    ' Unlike English patterns many of which have been offered for 60 or more years, Noritake patterns were discontinued after 5 years at the most.'

    That's a gross oversimplification. Their longest running pattern was produced for over 90 years.

  • HU-908669685
    3 years ago

    I am looking for cups and sauciers.

  • Carol Donaldson
    3 years ago

    A dear friend just gave me a set similar to yours with that same stamp. I was looking for information, like you, and came upon your search. What I really can't get over is the name of your set, "Lynbrook" because that is where I live!

  • HU-899863078
    5 months ago

    The original post is pattern 1850 because I own a 12 piece place setting including all serving pieces. Like you I can only find on line individual people selling a few pieces at a time. Like you still searching.

  • elcieg
    5 months ago

    Old post, but the china is Noritake, pattern, Lynbrook, Occupied Japan lasted from 1945 to 1952.

  • Michael Hilber
    5 months ago

    There are quite a few pieces for sale on eBay, search "noritake lynbrook"


    Noritake Lynbrook on eBay Link



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