I'm no expert on what's in your area, but I might have a guess. Are you near a water source? If so, that might be a queen snake. I'm not even sure that they belong in your area, but I believe so. The scales appear to be keeled, which would be correct, and the pattern seems close, to me. If you had asked him to roll over, that would have helped too. There should have been 4 stripes running down the belly. That's kinda hard to be sure of too, since this one will be shedding in a few days, so the markings aren't quite their usual color. The blue eyes are a give away to the upcoming shed. Try searching queen snake, it's worth a shot. Good luck.

Agree with Bill. Definitely a Queen Snake! They do range on most of the mitten in Michigan. Very neat snake and completely harmless. Nice discovery!

I've posted these photos to one other site and the consensus is half say eastern garter snake and half say queen snake. The reason I don't think it is a queen snake is that I read up on the queen snake and it says it's usually found near water and it's main source of food is crayfish. There is no water source where I found it, and no crayfish around.

To me, it doesn't look like any garter snake photo I've seen, and it doesn't fit the habitat of a queen snake.

After looking at some more queen snake photos, it sure does look like one. I wonder what it was doing under the wood pile with no water in site?

My first thought when I saw your pics was one of many species of garter snake, but as I looked closer, the scales appear to be keeled to me, which I believe would eliminate garters. I have bred and raised eastern garters, and they do vary a lot in color, but if I remember correctly, their scales are not keeled. I do agree that there should be a water source around for a queen snake, but they, as any other snake, can travel quite a ways, and possibly this one could have just been caught in between.

That is 100% Queen Snake (Regina septemvittata)

Though the pattern somewhats resembles that of a Queen Snake, this is a Garter Snake. The head shape just gives it away...

In the last photo, you can see some of the red coloration near the stripe, as well as a bit of a dorsal stripe.

I can see how this ID was confusing, but it is definitely not a Queen Snake.

-Todd

Voting Queen snake 3-4 days into shedding.

I know you are not in the range, but it looks like a Graham's crayfish snake. The stripe on the side looks to be 3 scale rows wide. I have captured Queen snakes and the yellow stripe is never that wide, However, I live in GA, and have no experience with Regina grahamii. I can only say that I have never seen a Queen snake that looks quite like the snake in the photo. (It is tough to tell where the ventral scales begin and end, and geographic variations can yeild tons of pattern/color morphs.)

Again, this is a Garter Snake. The head shape, as well as athe habitat, is completely wrong for a Queen Snake. In fact, a faint trace of a dorsal strip can be seen near the head.

Sorry everyone, but Todd (Hoosierherper) is the only one who is right here. That is definitely a gartersnake (Thamnophis sirtalis).

Ignore the habitat information - look at the animal. One thing people need to learn in this and any biological field - animals and plants don't read field guides, so it is important to realize there is going to be variation - gartersnakes are certainly no exception.

The scales are keeled - something that both garter and queen snakes have in common - that cannot be used as a distinguishing characteristic. Really what the naysayers would need to be shown is a divided anal scale or the ventral striping, but we don't have that. However, all we have is a dorsal shot and in all honesty thats all you need for people experienced with both species. The dorsal stripe on the head should be a giveaway, but also the lateral striping is still incorrect - for anyone who's seen as many Queen snakes as Todd and I, its easy to tell the difference.

Here are a few pics of a queen snake for reference...

Hopefully you all can see the difference, if not...oh well.

~Mike

This is a picture of an eatern garter snake, definately not it, I believe it is a species nobody has brought up on this forum something totally different.
S.B.

Here is a link that might be useful: {{!gwi}}

->Slaps forehead~Mike

Still voting Queen in shed.

Here is a link that might be useful: Queens of Michigan

Day by Day -
You can think vote Queen Snake all you want, it doesn't change the fact that it is truly a garter snake. Both Todd and I are highly experienced with both species. I myself am pursuing a Masters of Science degree currently (Biology - focus in herpetology) and Todd is highly involved with the state of Indiana in their herpetological studies. I have even lead a hike at the Ohio Herpetological Conference in 2006 to view Regina septemvittata at night feeding on in nearby stream. I doubt you can find more qualified people. Please don't take this as me being rude, but you also just recently identified a picture of a bearded dragon (Pogona vitticeps) as a collared lizard (Crotaphytus collaris) a few threads before this...I think that says enough...

~Mike

Yeh, I guess leading "a hike" does elevate a pursuing Masters student to know all status. Fact is, you don't know, nor do we, for sure since we don't have the snake in our hands at the moment, viewing it from all angles and comparing it with dozens of other documented and proven examples of possibles. This forum usually comes up with the right answers, not from only two "qualified people", but from anyone who has an interest and bothers to answer. Collared? So what? At least it inspired the next person to make an attempt instead of letting the thread go for weeks with no answer. So leave your attitude on the wall with your bought diploma and night feeding stream walk picture.

LOL - wow, I guess your response says it all. My post certainly did not deserve such a demeaning and crude response, but since you decided to open the flood gates...

I think you might have some anti-college-educated sentiment...might want to work on that. Just because someone was able to get through a Bachelors degree and has actually pursued something they are gifted at isn't reason enough to attack them and their credentials. I'm curious - what are your credentials (besides accumulating a false sense of pride by frequenting a website to show-off your pseudo-knowledge)?

Fact is, I know its a garter snake and you know nothing more than what photographs you've seen online. Period. Fact is, you misidentified a Bearded Dragon as a Collared Lizard. Period. Fact is, you have no first-hand experience with this species and have no professional or education backing to support your claims.

Have a good day,
~Mike

Fact, you don't who I am, my credentials, nor my educational background. Sit, little man and be careful next time you attack a forum member's response. I simply voted for an opinion shared by several. You, however, chose to address me, insult the intelligence of everyone here, and claim you're right with no proof.

As Mike has said, this is an Eastern Gartersnake (Thamnophis sirtalis). Here is an edited photo of the snake in question:

Note the yellow arrow, pointing to the dorsal stripe on the Gartersnake, a feature Queen Snakes lack. Also note the red arrow, showing the red, lateral banding. Again this shows that the snake is a Gartersnake.

Now compare the head shape to a real Queen Snake:

and to another of its same species, the Gartersnake:

It should become obvious that this snake is indeed a Gartersnake.

-Todd

Thanks Todd for posting that. Great job on clarifying this animal's identity.

Day by Day - I will neither waste my time nor dignify your behavior with a response.

~Mike

day_by_day: "and claim you're right with no proof..."

Whoa...what?

Does the Garter snake have a dorsal stripe down the whole length of the snake? I don't see it in the original photos.

The eyes are cloudy in the photos. Is this a sign that the snake is shedding it's skin?

Red lateral banding? Could you elaborate a bit more on this.

Thanks

Kt

"The eyes are cloudy in the photos. Is this a sign that the snake is shedding it's skin? "

Yes. The opaque eyes show that the snake is not far from shedding.

"Does the Garter snake have a dorsal stripe down the whole length of the snake?"

"Red lateral banding?"

You can see the beginning of a dorsal stripe in that photo, pointed to by the yellow arrow. It's not very obvious for a few reasons...first, this Gartersnake has an overall lack of pattern. Second, because it is about to shed, any pattern that exists is obscured and dulled. Still, the beginning of the stripe, which can be seen in the above photo, is enough to show it's not a Queen Snake.

The red arrow points to some red coloration on the side of the snake...something that Queen Snakes do not have.

-Todd

That looks more like a Queen snake to me. Your points on the dorsal stripe and reddish coloration are valid, but to me that's putting a little too much confidence in the camera and shading. If I had the snake in hand with a fresh shed it would be easier to make up my mind. I've seen over a hundred Eastern Garters and Ribbons and never seen such a patternless species whether in shed or not, but I'm not sure of the Garters in IN.

"I've seen over a hundred Eastern Garters"

Ah...but how many Queen Snakes have you seen?

"Your points on the dorsal stripe and reddish coloration are valid, but to me that's putting a little too much confidence in the camera and shading."

I know of no camera that adds red coloration in bands or a light stripe...that just happens to be on the back of the snake.

This is a Queen Snake...no doubt at all.

-Todd

Errr...that last sentence was supposed to say "Gartersnake", not "Queen Snake"

I've had no experience with queen snakes. But this has less to due with your experience indentifying snakes and my lack of experience with Queen snakes and more with the fact that lighting and color in photography can be misleading. What you call a dorsal stripe is not convincing enough in this picture for me to be 100% sure it exist. That being said, I can't be sure of the species.

"I've had no experience with queen snakes."

I understand, and I think that this is also true of the others who are calling it a Queen Snake. For Mike and I, who have each seen many, many Queen Snakes and many, many Gartersnakes, it is painfully obvious that this is a Gartersnake.

"that lighting and color in photography can be misleading"

I see your point very well. But...the camera is not playing tricks here. It shows a dorsal stripe and red banding because they do indeed exist.

"...and never seen such a patternless species whether in shed or not"

But which is more likely, a Gartersnake with some pattern lacking? or a Queen Snake with a Garter-esque head, dorsal stripe, red-banding, and found far from water?

"That being said, I can't be sure of the species."

That's really great to hear someone say. I'm glad that someone can admit that they're not "100% sure" it's a Queen Snake, because it is not. This is a Gartersnake.

-Todd

...oh, and to keep it interesting, here's a real Queen Snake found a few days ago in western Indiana.