Tapla and Justaguy, I wanted to point out your dislike of organics in containers was reaffirmed by Ray's experiment. I know the problems associated with using organics in containers and that researchers have tried to obtain results equal to conventional methods with much tweaking of the organic systems and have had some success. But Ray's experiments last year certainly back up your contentions in other threads that using organics in containers would give disappointing results. At least it certainly did using Fox Farm vs the old formula of Tomato Tone. The old T.T. formula was a mix of synthetics and organics and look at the results in Ray's picture--the tomato with lots of fruits on the right (TT) VS the pitiful organic one (Foxfarm) next to it that you can barely make out. Even Ray's miracle gro soil mix WITH fertilizer did not help Fox Farm. Now having said this I have had good results growing certain vegetables organically in containers. Perhaps they would been bigger with synthetics but I was happy with the results. I certainly would not be happy with the results that Ray got with Fox Farm and was surprised the difference was that dramatic. By the way I use both synthetic and organics fertilizers but I am interested in improving organic results particular when told it just can't be done. Any chance that some of the non-plant ingredients are soil-type microbes that would help the organic fertilizer breakdown and be utilized in containers? Ray, I also noted the change in the formulas on my old bags of TT and the new. I was disappointed that they did this as I liked the higher potassium and the synthetic components ameliorate some of the organic drawbacks. I already had Plant-tone if I wanted to go purely organic. As far as your new experiment, it will be interesting to see how the new TT with all the biological microbes stacks up to the old. Also the ferts, in the Miracle Gro are long gone now and won't impact the experiment.

With regard to Megpi's post, I totally agree on all points made. And it's still obvious to me that microbes, being living organisms, can move over and across the barrier along the top of the growing medium rather than having to "swim" under the barrier. With regard to Bencjedi's post, I grew about 100 Brandywine transplants for the Master Gardeners Plant Sale and kept a dozen or more at home to give to friends. Right now there are 10 of those Brandywine in 6" round pots filled with identical Baccto Professional Potting Mix with the pots stowed in a pile of bark fines like you might seed trees in nursery tubs with bark chips walled up around the tubs to keep the roots cool. All 10 plants have been treated identically since the time the seeds were planted ... same starter mix, same potting up mix, same fertilizer, same watering, same sunlight ... indentical. And there are marked differences between the plants at this time. Some are leafier, some are taller, some shorter, some have flowers, some don't have flowers, etc. When I look at that particular SWC with the two Brandywines, I see the one closer to the fence is taller and has less dense foliage maybe due to its location with regard to sunlight. I see the sunlight shining between the fence slats. Which way is east or south? I also notice the one nearer the fence is flowering. And the Brandywine farther from the fence seems to have more "mitten fingered" leaves. Hey, who knows about the vagaries of open pollinated heirlooms???

ath, The Cold Set plant with the Old Tomato-tone looks much greener and has multiple flowers. The Ed's Millennium is quite apparent. The only "measurement" that I will be doing is Taste difference (if any), and secondly, quantity of production. Too early to make any conclusions other than to say there is a noticeable difference between the two formulations. Hopefully, the New Tomato-tone will surpass the Old. gobig, I found the MG with MC held too much water for my EarthTainer setup last season, and switched to using MG without MC. It was 25% cheaper on a cu. ft. basis as well, and worked better for me. Your results may vary........ Raybo

You can use both. I definitely think the tomatotone is superior, it works a little more slowly, but it includes more trace elements and has soil microorganisms that help the plants take up nutrients.. I use tomatotone in the soil when planting out then add it by scratching it into the soil around the plant as directed every four weeks. But I grow in containers, so I also use a liquid chemical fertilizer once a week through the season. I use Foliage Pro for the chemical feed now. Years ago, I only used MG for tomatoes in my containers, and it was more like famine and feast for my plants. Growing in the ground with good soil, you probably would be better off using only tomatotone.