Very interesting! I think the moral is "caveat emptor". You can treat any tomato poorly after picking, and it will not taste good. Perhaps the heirloom she bought was refrigerated or picked green.

The best heirloom tomatoes come out of your own garden and are picked at the peak of ripeness. We all know why grocery store tomatoes exist - for something pretty and semi-edible after tomato season goes by. Heirlooms have always existed, and there's a reason they aren't mass marketed - they are too delicate. Expecting to buy perfection at any store - farmer's market or grocery - is unrealistic.

That being said, I have a few "ringer" hybrids in my garden, among the 20+ varieties of heirlooms. Two are cherry tomato plants my teacher hubby brought home from school - high producers, with OK, rugged tomatoes. Tomaccio I think. Better than buying supermarket tomatoes, but not much. I have an Early Girl which is loaded with green fruit. But two "ringers" I bought were a Brandywine and a Sungold - they were bigger than the plants I started - have already produced, and the fruits far surpassed the Tomaccio. Definitely worth having those in the garden.

So, I think my point is that while the name "heirloom" evokes quality, the over-marketing of those tomatoes may destroy their reputation. Over-marketing anything destroys it.

As soon as marketers nab on to ANY term that people associate with good (like "no cholesterol", which I saw on a box of cornflakes) they gotta run it into the ground.

Hell, Pop-tarts used to have a "heart-healthy" label, because they're "low-fat". Nevermind that other than the government mandated addition of vitamins to processed white flour,and plenty of calories from sugar, Pop-Tarts are at best, a non-food, and at worst aggravate metabolic imbalances that are a lot worse for your heart than a bit of fat.

I just keep hoping the masses will move on to something else, and leave the heirlooms to the gardeners and local growers...and i'm sure, if you bought a crappy tomato from one of those local farmers, they'd be sure to replace it with a REALLY good one. Try THAT at the mega-mart.

Hybrids, OP's, Heirlooms pre 1950, Heirlooms post 1950, etc. Who cares? Tomatoes are tomatoes IMO. Yes there are some Heirloom snobs here and all I can say is that they are missing some mighty fine hybrids like BrandyBoy that Barbara Damrosch talks about in that article! Or Sun Gold, I bet the most popular cherry out there. Or the sweet Momotaro. Or huge and delicious Big Zac. Or the prolific Big Beef. If one grows only hybrids, or only heirlooms, they are blind in one eye.

I don't care who grows the heirlooms as long as they taste good. Why would you care if a mass producer grew and heirloom? I just don't see the big deal. Everything was an heirloom before it was hybridized.

I don't care who grows them, but when factory-farm marketers charge extra money for the "heirloom" label, and more often than not deliver a crappy tomato, well, it's just sad.

I sent the following email to The Washington Post Food Section...
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"Apparently Jane Black doesn't understand that tomatoes one buys in a grocery store will never be consistent, serve as an example of the variety, or taste good. That's because store-bought tomatoes are picked when unripe and usually artificially colored (as opposed to "ripened").

I am an organic home gardener. I used to grow hybrid tomatoes. When I started trying heirloom varieties (Brandywine, Cherokee Purple, Aunt Gerties Gold, Prudens Purple, Caspian Pink and Tennessee Britches), I continued to grow 2 of the best-flavored hybrids (Celebrity and Big Beef). The difference in taste between the heirlooms and hybrids was so remarkable that, last year, all the hybrid tomatoes went straight to the compost bin!

I have read some people saying that the reason home-grown tomatoes taste better is because you grew them yourself. Those people completely confuse the effect with the cause. Home-grown tomatoes taste better because they are picked when naturally ripe. If you grow a commercial hybrid tomato in the yard and pick it when ripe, it will taste better than the same tomato purchased in a grocery store. I even bought an heirloom Brandywine tomato in a store once, and it was bland and mealy. Grocery store providers can make the tomato "red", but they can't fake "ripe".

As a hybrid grocery store tomato is to a home-grown hybrid tomato, a home-grown hybrid tomato is to a home-grown heirloom tomato.

Hybrid grocery store tomato - Barely edible
Heirloom grocery store tomato - Moderately edible
Hybrid home-grown tomato - Reasonably edible
Heirloom home-grown tomato - Extremely edible

I'm not the best gardener, but I invite Jane Black to visit me to taste a real home-grown ripe heirloom tomato!"
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I hope I have a good Brandywine and Cherokee Purple if they take me up on the offer. LOL!

yardman

your statement contain inaccuracies.

tomatoes are not artificially colored.

Also any tomato picked at the breaker stage, if ripened properly, will ripen just the same as one left on a vine. I bet if this was done blind (where you didnt know which was which and both were at the same level of ripeness) you would not be able to tell the difference.

Quote: "The best heirloom tomatoes come out of your own garden and are picked at the peak of ripeness."

I agree that the best I've eaten have come out of my garden, but as mulio said above...
"Also any tomato picked at the breaker stage, if ripened properly, will ripen just the same as one left on a vine."

I tried the most beautiful tomato I have ever seen last week. It was 2 pound 14 oz. perfectly shaped and brilliantly red, blemish free, hybrid Big Beef. It was hydroponically grown in a Santa Barbara greenhouse. It was completely without flavor.

That same day I tasted another Big Beef, I have no idea how big the tomato was, they just had chunks in a bowl with toothpicks for samples. It was delicious. I bought one of theirs.

Ah but, my friend who grows Blitz in greenhouses has dialed in the nutrient solution, light, and temperature to where his tomatoes taste identical to a delicious Pink Brandywine. Identical. You could not possibly pick which was which blindfolded.

But then some of the hydroponic Brandywines in LA at Whole Foods taste weak in comparison to those I've tried from outdoor growers.

It seems silly to pit Hybrid against Heirloom. The article was a puff piece and the snob was the one lacking space or knowledge to properly cover the topic; the one who thought playing contrarian by dismissing the in vogue heirlooms in favor of hybrids was probably clever. She's a hybrid snob. An uneducated one. ;)

Thanks for contributing the link irvjim, but IMO this author is a typical large circulation journalist and not a very informed gardener herself. Her shock value- Snob Appeal and attention getter words like 4.99 a pound, psychedelic colors etc. is a giveaway. SheÂs correct that non-traditional colors are an attraction to heirlooms  but somehow her Âugly appearance gets misconstrued against taste and texture.
The key to a great tomato is how it is grownÂ
Well, duh a greenhouse grown mater is a red perfectly round tasteless fruit that resembles a tomato.
I didnÂt know there was a Quisenberry Mortgage Lifter so I learned something.
And Brandy Boy is a fine hybrid, (canÂt disagree with that view).
She does relent to being partial to Black Prince so I see this as an article she got to the publisher on time but of little value to the home gardener.

one problem I think is going on is the cultural system used to grow the tomatoes

Like heavy handed watering; plastic/drip and hydroponic systems tend to produce watery less flavorful tomatoes if not managed correctly

I have somewhat mixed feelings about this post. Clearly, the tomatoes that are commercially available year-round are garbage. We know those that are grown for transport tend to be flavorless.

Yet, there are good local tomatoes in season. Some are heirloom, and some are not. I grew 3 french heirlooms this summer, and 1 is excellent, 1 is merely very hood, and 1 is merely ok. I don't think I could match the farmer's market tomatoes with the really good one, but the farmer's market tomatoes are as good as the merely good one.

Ultimately, it's about the end product, and while some heirlooms are fabulous, there are also some really excellent widely-available tomatoes out there as well.

Has anyone looked at the recipes? Looks like some good ones!

http://projects.washingtonpost.com/recipes/searchaction/?keywords=Top+Tomato+2009&course=&cuisine=&holidays=&month=&year=&x=0&y=0&sid=ST2009081101780

Cindy

This year I had my first experience with heirloom tomatoes. (I grew Black Prince).. They are indeed delicate. (The skins seem to tear and rip apart quite easily) Definitely a store would have to overcome numerous issues with trying to sell them if possible at all.

But eating them is another story. When I eat them I feel like a million bucks.. Its like there is a powerfull antioxidents in them(?). I would concur the ones at the supermarket are devoid of anything beneficial that the body needs.

Great link lrvjim, thanks for sharing!

The picture of the tomato snobs is funny. :-)

Tomato flavor has so much to do with the nutrients in the soil or growing medium. If you get this right, you will have winners, no matter the variety. I am lucky, I have the "right" nutrients in my soil. My tomatoes taste great. I hear it week after week after week. Your tomatoes are the best tasting of the market, What do you do to them, they taste so good.

My mom grew some of the same varieties grown from the same seeds as mine and we compared them, mine were better hands down. Same is true about ones from my neighbor, 1 mile away.

I try not to let people know that I grow them in High Tunnels. People don't think they will taste good. Well every tomato I sold this year is from my high tunnels and they are all blemish free, perfect and TASTE GREAT. You can have your cake and eat it too!

Tomato flavor has so much to do with the nutrients in the soil or growing medium.

Yes I would Agree jrslick. Most commercial food today is grown in depleted soil do you think not?. I think everything thats taken from the soil needs to be returned to soil.
Taking nutrients from the soil, eating the produce and throwing the scraps into the landfill is not a sustainable cycle and will eventually we'll see the end of that when we run out of fossil fuel derived fertz that keep those old farms soil going on n-p-k (But probably depleted of anything else that can't be replaced so easily)

Tomato flavor also has to do with genetic potential if given the right conditions. There are some lines, heirloom or hybrid, with genetics that are mediocre or just plain suck no matter what soil or nutrients you give them.

Some of the commercial ones will not develop better flavor no matter what you give them though there are those who think they taste better. But they have their purposes. Soft mushy heirlooms do not do well in sandwich shop slicers.

My dad & I did an experiment many years ago on tomato taste. We grew the same variety of tomatoes from the same commercial producer, his in sandy soil east of Richmond, mine in clay soil west of the city. We used the same fertilizer and neither of us watered them. They tasted different. His were definitely tastier, mine more bland. The sandy soils of Hanover County are known for producing excellent tomatoes. I've always wanted to import a truck load to grow mine in.

This year a friend gave me samples of several different varieties she grew, including Lemon Boy, Zebra Stripe, and Black Krim. They all were grown in the same soil with the same fertilizer and watering. But they tasted differnt.

The point is that soil AND variety (genetics) make a difference in the taste. Finding what tastes best to you (or the majority of your customers) is done by trial and error. But the process is tons of fun!

Sandy

my brandy wine black and plumb are tasty to say the least, also a german type h has exlnt flaver, the limon boy though out producing all others has almost no taste. sad cause the production appearance and ease of growing had me exited. all grown in the same soil and water and compost reg. would love to find a great tasting yellow, any sugestions?

/

I think the biggest single problem with the majority of the heirlooms is that they have no resistance to disease-especially (late Blight ) disease, If only someone could build L.B. resistance into these they would be a whole new kettle of fish, and everyone would want them.
Late Blight, has been responsible for wiping out, hundreds of peoples crops on both sides of the atlantic this year a whole year of work ruined -almost overnight.

Which begs the question..are there any types(heirloom or hybrid)that are resistant to LB?

Mike

Late Blight, has been responsible for wiping out, hundreds of peoples crops on both sides of the atlantic this year

I don't watch television, and I don't remember the specifics of anything I've read about European weather this summer. Has it been cool and damp there like the US Northeast? Or are there other conditions that seem to be responsible?

Which begs the question..are there any types(heirloom or hybrid)that are resistant to LB?

*****

The variety Legend, an OP, bred by Dr. Baggett at OSU was supposed to be LB tolerant, but it hasn't been very tolerant acoording to lots of feedback that I've seen.

There's a new hybrid called Mountain Magic F1 that was bred by Dr. Randy Gardner that has enhanced LB tolerance ( an additional LB gene) and I'm growing it now, as is mulio who has showed pictures of it here, but it won't be available commercially until next year.

I use the word tolerant rather than resistance b'c I know of no variety, OP or hybrid that's 100% resistant to LB or any other tomato disease.

Carolyn

When I read the article, I found myself agreeing and then disagreeing...almost alternately as I proceeded. I've grown hybrids that gave great flavour and heirlooms that tasted wonderful. But I've also grown heirlooms that tasted fantastic one season but not so fantastic the next.

After growing tomatoes in my garden since 1975, I admit to not knowing what I have to do in order to grow a great tasting tomato every single season. Oh... I can often grow great plants but what I've found, great plants don't guarantee fruit that tastes great. I've bought fresh seed from seedsmen such as Victory and had vastly different results in yield and flavour from one year to the next even though the seeds all came from the same packet. And I always grow out at least two plants of every given variety each season.

One thing for sure. I'm not convinced that soil nutrient plays as huge a part as some people would like to think. Do tomato plants need nutrient? Of course they do. And I use compost, manure and other amendments just as many of you do.

But I think that daytime temps, night time temps, clear sunny skies compared to overcast skies and the amount of moisture in the soil have more to do with flavour than anything else. This year, I have about 66 plants in the ground and I think that there's 20 varieties. They're planted on a friend's farm that has never seen tomatoes planted there before. The ground is fertile farm land and slightly on the sandy side of the scale.

But the immense amount of rain (again this summer) hasn't helped produce flowers. The variety of bees in my area don't seem to have heard of umbrella's and pollenation of the flowers that have appeared hasn't been great. All of the local farmers have been complaining about not having as few as 4 consecutive days with no rain so they could cut, dry and bale hay. Last season was a total disaster for me and this season is shaping up much the same. And all that rainy weather has limited the amount of sunshine plus the daytime and night time temps are unseasonably cool.

I've also taken fruit from a tomato plant that tasted quite different amongst each other. How does one explain getting one great tasting tomato from one branch and something quite different from a different one? So for me, the article was kind of laughable. Growing an heirloom variety does not guarantee superior flavour. Far too much of what happens in a growing season is completely beyond the control of gardener.

I do my own starts, put them in decent soil and make sure they have adequate moisture. I watch for tomato worms and other problems. Aside from that, the rest is in Mother Nature's hands and I have come to accept that as being fact. Perhaps the writer of that article should attend Gary's TomatoFest for a bit of enlightenment. I hardly think that growing or choosing heirloom varieties of anything constitutes "snobbery".

If she actually had a clue about OP vining varieties, then she would understand that there isn't just a single flavour in the tomato world. There are many nuances and discovering them is one of the many joys of growing out and sampling the choices we have available with OP plants.

Just my opinion.

My opinion:

People who grow heirloom tomatoes either do so because they love to grow interesting vegetable cultivars as a hobby, or because they are entrepreneurs and are simply trying to meet market demand.

People who spend $6 per pound on heirloom tomatoes... ... well, I guess it's up to them how they want to spend their money.

I'm willing to pay any amount of money for good tomatoes--we have them such a short time, and I really don't eat a tomato all winter, with the exception of cherry tomatoes. We have a quite good farm stand near us. Last year, they put out Heirlooms and Ramapos. The Heirlooms were out of this world. This year, they are mealy, and the Ramapos are out of this world. Just depends upon he season, the grower, earth.

With respect to the article - I agree with some of the comments and not others. I think the author oversimplified the situation. You can always pay too much for something that can not be guaranteed and be disappointed.

Now - Kompressor - I couldn't find a single thing I disagree with what you wrote.

Overall, I love heirlooms (for more than the tomato itself), OP's and a couple of hybids that I'd never do without.

Cindy

LOL, in despiration about a week ago I paid over 3.00+ for one tomato at a large local grocery store. It was supposed to be locally grown, and "heirloom". It looked like a Brandwine and It was August and I had yet to taste one tomato out of my garden or eat one tomato sandwich. I don't regret it. I got two good tomato sandwiches out of that 3.00+ tomato, thats 1.50 per sandwich and they were DELICIOUS. A couple of days later I started to see my own tomatoes start to blush and now I have about a dozen ripening on the counter. I have been able to start having at least one a day. I can't make dishes that require large amts of tomatoes yet, but a daily sandwich or hamburg tastes just fine after the long wait. I was afraid the blight would get em before I got one.

Sue