Please critique next year's list of tomatoes.

15 years ago

This is my 2nd year with a garden - last year was pretty much a wash as I was really clueless. Bonus was tons of Sungold volunteers this year. I made the mistake this year of mainly planting what I found at the nursery. Early Girl, Celebrity & Better Boy are barely a step above store tomatoes. I luckily bought a Black Cherry and LOVE them. I am now looking for tomatoes that have huge flavor. I really like cherry tomatoes, but make a lot of salsa & sauces. I plan on juicing & drying this year as well. I also give away a lot of them as they grow like weeds here in Sacramento.

I plan on planting from any of the Sungold F2's that are tasty that I am currently growing, but also have a huge list of what I'm thinking I'll plant next year. Any that you think are overrated or missing from my list? I'll probably grow from seed & have 1 or 2 plants for each variety & give away the others. Also, how long can seed be stored in the fridge or is it better in the freezer? Thanks from the newbie! :)

Pink Brandywine

Aunt Ruby's German Green

Kellog's Breakfast

Caspian Pink

Yellow Brandywine

Delicious

Marianna's Peace

Cherokee Purple

Black Krim

Stupice

Arkansas Traveler

Sara Black

Goose Creek

Azoychka

Green Grape

Sungold of course

Black Cherry of course

Tommy Toe

Snow White

Red Currants

Amish Paste

Opalka

Black Plum

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Comments (22)

sprtsguy76
15 years ago
I really dig your list and can say thumbs up on the Brandywine, Aunt Ruby's German Green, Chereokee Purple, Stupice and Red Currants!
korney19
15 years ago
I've grown everything on your list except Goose Creek, which I refuse to grow--the story doesn't fit, and an originator of an open pollinated variety who tries to patent it as well as any other varieties from/that may have gotten crossed by it gets a big 2 thumbs down from me, as well as anyone who sells it and promotes it.

The list is very good, if it were me I'd replace Caspian Pink, Delicious, Traveler, Goose Creek, Tommy Toe and Black Plum with similar varieties in their classes that are much better.

Caspian Pink always rotted on the vine for me at the top, though your location you might not experience the cracking if you don't get much rainfall.

Delicious there are many large reds much better--Neves Azorean Red, Wes, Cuostralee, etc.

Traveler wasn't as big as I thought it would be, most were less than 3".

There are many very good red cherries.

Black Plum is much smaller than you may think. It's not quite a paste tomato in my eyes but more of a long cherry class, maybe 2-2.5" by about 1" or so. It's even smaller than Roma. If you want something that tastes similar to Black Plum, but bigger and on a smaller plant, try Korney's Cross, it should be stable & available by the end of the year.

For other great paste/sauce types, try Joe's Plum, Bisignano #2, Wagner's Italian (which is pink, not that common for a paste type), Ernie's Plump, etc. For salsa, canning, etc, try Rio Grande, a very productive tall red globe on an aggressive Determinate plant.

Sara Black may be a renamed variety by Joe Bratka. I hate renamed varieties.

White/ivory/yellow cherries, try Dr. Carolyn's [Yellow] (pale yellow), or Galina's.

For a dark yellow/gold beefsteak, try Aunt Gertie's Gold.

While Stupice is a very good early tomato, Kimberly is about 2 weeks earlier.

You DID ask for opinions right? I'm just giving my honest opinions! In the end, it is YOUR list and YOUR decision, and the only way you will know what tastes great to you is if you try it. Pics available for most...

Hope this helps.

Mark

P.S. You'll have hundreds of F3 Sungolds to grow out, will you have room for anything else? lol
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Hank, I have grown tomatoes for 25 years on my own, and grew them with my parents and grandparents for virtually my whole life, and I have NEVER had such a bad weather year for tomatoes....although there were a couple of rainy years in the 1970s that came close to being as bad as this year. Tomato yields were affected negatively by the weather in several ways, including: 1) Very Late freezes, including some very late sleet and snow, killed a lot of plants that were already in the ground. The colder soil temps then drastically slowed down regrowth and stunted the plants. This is the worst thing that can happen to tomato plants...even some of the ones that survived remained somewhat stunted and slow to produce. 2) Excessively wet weather impacted tomatoes in several ways, but primarily by keeping the soil so waterlogged that the roots could not grow. In addition, continuous heavy rains leached nutrients out of the soil big-time, so even the plants that survived sitting in waterlogged soil were nutritionally deprived and grew slowly for a long time. 3.) Excessive humidity made pollen sticky, causing it to clump and slowing down/preventing pollination. 4.) Excessive clouds slowed down both the growth and ripening of the tomatoes that eventually formed. Any single one of these four factors is enough to really mess up your tomato production, and having all four at once is highly unusual. I would say that we are unlikely to ever see such awful tomato-growing conditions again, but.....this is Oklahoma, after all, and our weather will do what it will do. Hopefully, though, we will have a better year in 2008 for growing tomatoes. As you learned this year, planting tomatoes at the earliest reasonable time is very important in our climate because we have such a brief period of time in the spring when the nights are warm enough for pollination to occur and the days are not yet too hot to slow down/stop pollination. I tend to plant too early as opposed to planting too late, because most years I can cover up plants and protect them from a late freeze, but you can't do anything to counter the effects of the heat. If you are only going to have 8 plants next year, you probably want the ones that are most productive, so you get the most tomatoes possible in the space you have. If I were growing eight plants and I wanted maximum production for the space available, I would probably plant these: 1. Better Boy--heavy production, excellent disease resistance, very reliable, good to great flavor 2. Jet Star--heavy production, good to great diseaese resistance, usually reliable, good to great flavor 3. Early Girl OR Bush Early Girl OR Early Girl Improved--early tomatoes, good disease resistance, good flavor. Of the three, Bush Early Girl always gives me the most tomatoes per plant. 4. Fourth of July (simply COVERED in 2 to 4 oz. tomatoes all summer long)--Very early producer that continues to produce all summer long, excellent disease resistance, and fair to good flavor. Please note when I describe the flavor as fair to good that they are not bad at all--and certainly taste better than ANY grocery store tomato. They have typical or average hybrid taste, and if you have never had the wonderful flavors of heirlooms, you would think these are perfectly fine. It it just that I am spoiled by the wonderful flavors of all the heirlooms, but most heirlooms produce 1/10th of the yield that Fourth of July will give you. Bloody Butcher is an heirloom that reminds me of 4th of July although it has not been quite as productive in my garden. 5. Sweet Million cherry OR Husky Red Cherry. You probably only need one or the other of these. Husky Red Cherry is a short internode plant. Sweet Million can easily get 8 feet tall if caged or trellised. Sweet Million will give you an abundance of smaller cherries. Husky Red Cherry will give you fewer, but larger, cherries. 6. Porter is a small tomato that is larger than a cherry but NOT a round beefsteak, more of an oval salad type. Fruit are reddish-pink and these plants produce all summer long no matter how hot it gets. They are very disease resistant and VERY heat/drought tolerant. 7. Burpee Porterhouse will give you the huge, tasty red tomatoes of your dreams. New on the market and one that has greatly impressed a lot of tomato maniacs. 8. Celebrity. Chosen for its outstanding disease resistance and reliability. If you could squeeze in 2 or 3 more, SunGold is a great golden-orange cherry that produces in about 57 days, Cherokee Purple and Black Krim are heirlooms that give you some of the tastiest tomatoes you will ever eat. Dawn
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doof
15 years ago
Sac, good choices on the Purple Cherokee and the Marianna's Peace. I gave the Marianna's Peace a thumbs down a couple of months ago when I wasn't getting any fruit, but it finally started producing and it produced some very, very good tomatoes. I would grow it again if I didn't have so many others to try.

Purple Cherokee is probably the most tomato-ey tomato I have ever tasted. Mine were very strong, sweet, sort of like tomato paste. It would not be my favorite tomato, because I have a certain taste I prefer, but it was a real eye-opener. One downer though: I had trouble getting anybody else to eat it because it looked so strange. (They're starting to get over that, so I might give it another try...)

I haven't grown Arkansas Traveler -- might do that next year -- but I did grow its cousin Burgundy Traveler this year, and it was FANTASTIC. Burgundy Traveler is a darker version of Arkansas Traveler (as best I can determine from the conflicting pedigree information in post on the forum). It is a dark purple-cherokee-ish color which I described as Firebrick. So you might want to consider BT as a possible alternative, that's up to you.
sautesmom Sacramento
15 years ago
Ones I have tried before here in Sac and cut from my list:

Delicious (It's not. At all!)
Cherokee Purple (Never did well and didn't like the flavor, tried 3 times)
Opalka (None of the pastes do well with my nematodes)
Black Plum (Blech!)

Ones I am currently growing, most have permanent status on my tomato list:

Aunt Ruby's German Green (Always spicy and yummy, some nematode difficulties)
Kellog's Breakfast (delicious)
Caspian Pink (delicious)
Yellow Brandywine (delicious, yields either great or very small)
Marianna's Peace (fabulous performer and taste)
Black Krim (Small yield but very nice)
Stupice (Always fabulous, loves the heat)
Arkansas Traveler (Huge crop, but Burgundy Traveler is even better)
Azoychka (Flavor just OK, but nice color and crop)
Green Grape (One of the best cherries)
Snow White (A nice cherry, good color)
Amish Paste (Nice meaty fruit, some nematode problems)

I would add to your list a nice bicolor like Marvel Stripe, and Boondocks, Stump of the World, Jetsetter, Manalucie and my personal favorite, Moskvich.

Carla in Sac
digdirt2
15 years ago
I'd agree with the recommendation to cut the Delicious from the list. It's a big disappointment for me.

Arkansas Traveler is a regular for me (state loyalty ;) but I'd agree that there are better pinks available especially after my first exposure to Giant Belgium this year (pics posted in another thread here).

And Amish Paste has also been a regular for me each year but the San Marzano paste is out-producing it 3 or 4 to 1 this year and sure seems to make great sauce so I think I switch to it next.

Good luck and enjoy those tomatoes! ;)

Dave
hortist
15 years ago
Pink Brandywine
Aunt Ruby's German Green much better green choices 'Green Giant' or 'Cherokee Green' or 'Grub's Mystery Green'
Kellog's Breakfast
Caspian Pink
Yellow Brandywine - dont expect much production but one of the better yellows
Delicious unless you are trying to break a record
Marianna's Peace

Cherokee Purple
Black Krim
Stupice there are much better tasting earlies
Arkansas Traveler
Sara Black
Goose Creek
Azoychka

Green Grape unless you can find an indeterminate one. there are much better ones in the making.
Sungold of course
Black Cherry of course
Tommy Toe
Snow White
Red Currants

Amish Paste
Opalka
Black Plum - excellent for drying, not so great for fresh
elkwc
15 years ago
Pink Brandywine - Not much production here. 1-3 fruits per plant
Aunt Ruby's German Green
Kellog's Breakfast-A good one
Caspian Pink- Another good one
Yellow Brandywine- Looks to be a meager producer here.
Delicious- Better ones here anyway
Marianna's Peace - Never tried

Cherokee Purple-Wasn't impressive here but found out I probably didn't have the real one. Going to try it.
Black Krim - Never grown
Stupice- There is several I like better
Arkansas Traveler- Wasn't impressed in my garden.
Sara Black - Never grown it yet
Goose Creek - Was impressed with them till the TSWV got them. Got several more also so will be planting again.
Azoychka - Never grown

Green Grape
Sungold of course
Black Cherry of course
Tommy Toe
Snow White
Red Currants

Amish Paste
Opalka
Black Plum
I have over 50 varieties out so can add more comments later as the season progresses. Have some early ones that are very impressive but will wait till I taste most of them to say much. Godlove, Adelia, Wagner, Mr Bruno, Kimberly, Sioux are just a few that do well here.I will come back then and add any new favorites. Jay
nctomatoman
15 years ago
Ok - I will play!

I would cut the following:

Caspian Pink - I've found it very disease prone. Try Stump of the World for a great tasting productive large pink.
Delicious - Aker's West Virginia or Zogola much better flavored in the large red category.
Marianna's Peace - some like this one a lot - I've found it pretty ordinary each time I've grown it.
Stupice - Kimberly much better flavored in the same size, color and season
Arkansas Traveler - Eva Purple Ball has much better flavor in a similarly reliable medium round pink.
Sara Black - Black from Tula or Cherokee Purple are THE purples of choice for me. This one has iffy history, in my view.
Goose Creek - much ado about very little from what I've read
Green Grape - just doesn't do well for me, plus I don't like the cruncy, firm, bland flavor/texture
Tommy Toe - OK if you want a red cherry, so many to choose from, but if you have Sungold and Black Cherry, that may be plenty
Snow White - ditto
Red Currants - Mexico Midget is my choice for a tiny red
Amish Paste - nice tomato if you can harvest a fruit - one of the first to go down from disease for me.
Black Plum - interesting shape, but flavor is not a winner for me. Try Japanese Trifele Black for a larger pear shape, better flavor, same brownish color.

just my two cents!
Craig
jalapenogirl11
15 years ago
Your list looks great! Most I've my favorites are included, however I would recomend a few changes, such as adding garden peach. They're a very flavorful miniture tom, and they're doing great where I live(by great I mean better than most of my other plants that are suffering from uneven watering. Just rained again :-(. ) Also, red and yellow pears are my favorite cherry toms, very tasty and great producers. I would take arkansas traveler and stupice off of the list though, they have produced little to no fruit for me.
jackman1944
15 years ago
Sudduth Brandywine
Black Krim
German Red
Levino
Cleota Pink
Royal Hillbilly
Kellogg's Breakfast
Woodle Orange
Cherokee Green.

Jackman
wvtomatoman
15 years ago
I'll comment on some, but not all varieties.

Pink Brandywine - Excellent.
Caspian Pink - I want to grow this one again because I like it. Its just that there are so many really good pink beefsteaks that I haven't gotten back to it.
Yellow Brandywine - I want to try this one.
Delicious - Too bland for my taste. This is one I would skip.
Marianna's Peace - Good, but not up to the reviews of some so I want to try it again.

Cherokee Purple - Excellent. But, I see that people in your area don't seem to be having good success with it. From reading this forum it seems that some varieties do not perform well or taste good in some areas.
Black Krim - Probably my second favorite black.
Stupice - Early, but has an after taste that I don't particularly care for.

As you see you will get various likes and dislikes depending on taste and growing region. The bottom line is you have to try them for yourself.

Good luck.

Randy
HoosierCheroKee
15 years ago
Cherokee Purple: The best on your list especially if you get a good seed or plant. I've had various results in four years of growing them, but they all tasted wonderful regardless of yield, shape or size. The best ever has been this year growing the potato leaf variant from Spudleaf Willie via TomTrees. Fantastic.

Goose Creek: I agree with the others, but not for the reasons given thus far. Last year it was the most beautiful tomato I'd ever grown, but just "good" in the taste category. But this year, seed from last year's tomato produces smaller fruit, same color, good taste, but inadequate production on both plants. Go with a better yielding better tasting tomato with less hype.

Yellow Brandywine: Not worth the space. Low yields aren't compensated by the slightly superior taste. There's other good tasting tomatoes that'll give you way more fruit.

Marianna's Peace: Never grown it but Marianna's Conflict is one of the three best tomatoes in my 2007 garden.

Opalka: Absolutely!

Amish Paste: Grow one more Opalka instead.

Brandywine: Hey, the one I grew last year was a great producer of good tomatoes.

Caspian Pink: Was disappointed in tardiness and low production, but the flavor was good. Not happy in the heat.

Black Krim: Heard it was smoky, but mine was hard to keep lit. Concentric cracking was distracting. Hard white core ... what a bore.

Oh ... it's a long way until next year. I'll bet your list will change from month to month. Stay flexible.
tomatoaddict
15 years ago
Mark,
I am just curious about Goose Creek. You said the story doestn't add up.... Please fill me in as I was one of the people that bought into it and grew it this year. I have only eaten 1 so far. I thought it was extremely sweet. Pretty small size wise. I too can't stand made-up stories about mators. I think the histories should be as pure as possible.
sac_zone9
Original Author
15 years ago
Thank you to everyone that provided input! The list has already been revised...and expanded. There are over 30 varieties now, which will obviously have to be honed down.

Mark, anytime you want to help out with the Sungold F3's, let me know - I can overnight seed to ya. lol :)
korney19
15 years ago
Mark, anytime you want to help out with the Sungold F3's, let me know - I can overnight seed to ya. lol :)

Hahaha! Maybe you'd like to grow out a dozen of my Cherokee Bi-Color F3?

Also, I have a little experience with Sungolds beyond F1... one is an F2 x Juliet F2 cross.

Tomatoaddict, I PM'd you from the other place.
sautesmom Sacramento
15 years ago
I want to follow up with a comment about Stupice. There are many posts here to the effect that "There are much better earlies", and I want to point out that I do NOT grow it because it is supposedly "early", which it really isn't in my garden here in Sacramento. I grow it because it LOVES the heat, pumps out the tomatoes up until November and develops wonderful flavor in my climate, which is the same as the original poster. I do grow Kimberly too, which is also yummy, but although Kimberly's asset is that it IS early, it doesn't like the heat and production is limited. So I want to stick up for Stupice, and recommend it highly for those in the California heat, not as a replacement for an "early" but on its own merits.
Carla in Sac
recycle_man
15 years ago
The Onslow County Master Gardeners grew and sold varieties that are resistant (not immune) to Tomato Spotted Wilt Virus, the scourge of the southeast. The varieties were: Amelia, BHN 640 and Christa. These are all determinant plants with the tomatoes ranging from 10-12oz and many over 1#. Other than cherry or grape type tomatoes which have some resistance to TSWV , TSWV resistant large eating tomatoes are the only ones I will plant in the future.
recyle_man
Onslow County and surrounding Camp Lejuene area.
sac_zone9
Original Author
15 years ago
Thanks Carla! Stupice is now back on my list - love the input.

Mark, I would be interested in growing out SOME of the Cherokee F3's if you're serious. I have lots of learnin' to do, obviously. Luckily the guy that owns the farm where I board my horse finds it amusing that this 'citygirl' wants to be a farmer & is letting me plant my next year's garden there on a spot about 150' x 100...a tad bigger than my little backyard garden. He's even offered to let me use his tiller as the little Mantis I have would take forever there. It should be pretty amusing to say the least! :D
sautesmom Sacramento
15 years ago
Wow! Can I have some??? Does he have neighbors??? I've got seeds for corn, and peppers, and squash, and melons, and beets, and carrots, and LOTSA tomatoes, and, and! I'm sooo jealous!
Carla in Sac
sac_zone9
Original Author
15 years ago
Carla,

Not sure if you would be jealous if you saw it! The area he's letting me use is mainly hard worthless dirt with rocks that is currently covered with star thistle with no means of irrigation. It's gonna need a LOT of work before planting next year. Luckily I have access to a big manure pile, a big tiller and the farm well. BUT getting that area ready to plant will take a while. Nothing good comes for free.

I can't wait to start on the next year's garden!!!
goggomobil
15 years ago
Here are some that I have years of experience with. All tomatoes listed below that I started from seed were Martha Stewart brand seeds (from KMart, actually Burpee seeds).

Pink Brandywine -- From seed; fairly prolific, good flavor, large fruits. My wife expects me to grow this and Brandywine every year.

Aunt Ruby's German Green -- From 5" container-grown plant; quality-not-quantity producing plant, good flavor, large sized fruits.

Delicious -- From seed; reliable, very prolific, unremarkable yet good flavor, large-to-very large fruits.

Cherokee Purple -- From seed; prolific, excellent flavor, prone to skin problems (especially longitudinal cracking) caused by uneven watering, fairly large fruits. This is another tomato that my wife asks me to grow when I am starting seedlings in spring.

Black Krim -- From seed; quality-not-quantity producing plant, prone to catfacing and green shoulders, outstanding flavor, medium-to-large fruits. Every year, many different friends that I have given Black Krims to in years past ask me if I'm growing them again. They are that good.
habitat_gardener
15 years ago
I've grown only a few of these, all from seedlings (since the selection is great around here)

Aunt Ruby's German Green -- wonderful flavor, they get huge, the squirrels don't bother them, and it's fun to watch the expression on someone else's face when they bite into a green tomato!

Caspian Pink -- the squirrels got most of the tomatoes the year I grew it, but I loved the ones I got to taste

Cherokee Purple -- squirrels got most of these, too; but it didn't produce many and the taste was not outstanding enough to try again

Stupice -- grew it one year, wasn't impressed by the flavor; tomatoes were only a little bigger than Tommy Toe and produced a lot, but still half or a third as much as TT

Black Krim -- first year; I planted it in mid-Feb. and I've been picking some every day, probably 6-7 big ones and 18-20 smaller ones per week; incredibly rich and luscious when cooked; a little too much on the acid side uncooked (but then I've been eating too many tomatoes for the past month and a half)

Green Grape -- first year, planted them late; have only had 3 so far, but they're sweet-spicy and I'll grow them again

Sungold of course -- me too; for a change, grew Sun Sugar and Galinas last year, both of which were sweet and tasted very similar to me, but didn't have the fruitiness of a bright-orange Sungold, and didn't produce as much as Sungold

Black Cherry of course -- me too

Tommy Toe -- my favorite red cherry (and it looks like I'm the only person who thinks so) and one of my top-5 favorite tomatoes, great flavor at every stage of ripeness, keeps well, produces huge numbers of large cherries; haven't found any other red cherries that come close in flavor (have tried Riesentraube [so-so], Chadwick Cherry [good, but not as good as TT, and low-medium production], Sweet Chelsea [bland])

Opalka -- a couple years ago the plant was sparse and production not great, but the tomatoes were creamy and rich; this year the plant is much denser and I'm looking forward to them

Black Plum -- I liked the flavor better last year, but it was a consistent producer and the flavor improved later in the season, so I'm hoping it will get better; hadn't planned to grow it again -- the label said Black Cherry, alas

Other tomatoes I've especially liked:
Aunt Ginny's Purple -- rich flavor, big tomatoes, but production was low
Momotaro -- if you like sweet tomatoes; but production seems medium to low; still, I'm growing 2 plants this year
Early Girl -- nice tart-sweet flavor, and a reliable producer; last year it was not early but was a good producer late in the season; was worth growing once but, with so many varieties to choose from, I'm not sure I'd grow it again.

Please critique next year's list of tomatoes.

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