Most normal Flues are bird flus that come from Asia, they may mutate slightly in the US but they all do the majority of there changing in birds and hop the species barrior over in asia then come here. You know what deaseas kills most of the people exposed to bird flu, salmonella! nTreat your flock like you would a sick person down aat the office and you should be fine, just don't let youy kids go and play with the birds. We Identified H5 in the 50's and in mutated to H5N1 in the late 90's, its had ten years of migrations to cross the pacific but it has failed to, so why are we so worried that it will this year? MEdia Hype, I've heard lots of people say "its not if but when" the truth is its still if, Unfortunately when bird get sick they don't show many symptoms except death, So if your chickens all die heres a hint, don't hold a funeral! Beyond that theres not much we can do, because we are about tenthousand times more likely to catch H5N1 from some guy down at the office than we are to catch it from birds that we don't share a keyboard or phone with. Oh, and don't assume that because the CDC says something its true, I was listening to the Radio last night and I heard about the hog flu epidemic some years back, the Army was tracking it for research purposes and the CDC found out, issued a press conference about it, 60,000 people got vaccinated in the next few weeks, a good number of them had adverse side effects from the vacine, One person died from the actuall thing, one.

Peonies... I have tried to avoid getting in the middle of this disagreement, but now I feel I have to. While I appreciate the help with the question this thread started out being about, I really don't appreciate how uncomfortable I now feel with the turn the thread has taken. I don't mind that the bird flu was brought into it, or that different people have different opinions about it. All of that is perfectly fine and appropriate and to be expected. What I mind is the way in which opinions are expressed, putting down the other person's point of view and making personal attacks. Peoniesaremyfav...you may not want to hear this, but MM was correct to remind me, which is who he was directing his comments about bird feeders to, about the concerns about the Bird Flu. If it wasn't a legitimate concern, Mass Audobon wouldn't have been writing about it on their website. He is not alone in his concern. When he brought it up, I responded, and didn't take offense, he wrote back and he wasn't offended. Then you jumped into the discussion. If you really want to be fair and honest, you can go back and read the thread over to find out where it started to take a down turn. MM and I both had come to the same conclusion..that it was still ok to feed birds, but we need to keep an eye out for future changes. MM just expressed that even though it was probably ok, he had decided to stop feeding anyway. That was the point where the discussion should have ended. You continued it. You challenged MM about his decision to stop feeding and then after he attempts to defend his reasons further, you characterize his response as being defensive. You have expressed judgements about MM as a person that were unwarranted, saying he is only concerned with his own little world. Where did that come from?? If he was only concerned with his own little world, he wouldn't have been trying to help me out by reminding me about the Avian Flu. That is making a personal attack and is crossing the line of simplying disagreeing with a point of view. Peoniesaremyfav...I certainly don't want you to perceive this as a "chastisement" because it is not. You put others in the position of having to come to someone's defense when you attack them. I hope you will feel free to express your opinions. I am interested in your opinion and MMs opinion and Terry's opinion. But I also hope you can see that your opinions and the opinions of others are better heard, if the personal comments are kept out of it. If they can't be, it is better to just let it go. Adam

Patrick, Can you please tell me what you talking about? I think Barb elaborated on what I said with the exception of clarifying what people are talking about when they refer to bird flu. If you could please clarify what you found to be so erroneous, I'll be happy to post a retraction. In my town, we have been asked not to touch any dead birds and to report dead birds to the board of health. If you give me your address, I'll be happy to send you a copy of the flyer. If you have some information on the topic of the thread, it would be nice if you would post it rather than being rude. I think there is a polite way to critique people. Unlike websites that are created and appear to have factual information on them, this is a forum. People expect debate on issues like this. It provides the opportunity for people to ask questions and learn. There is also an opportunity for people to come here and post corrections as Barb so politely did. I have a suggestion for you. The next time you find yourself losing patience and tempted to post something that serves no purpose but to be mean, just close your browser. It is much less work than posting something nasty.

LindaC, "What it all boils down to is, Americans found out what BPI was putting into the "ground beef" they were selling to the schools, to McDonalds, putting into tubes of 90% lean beef, into premade meat patties.....and they don't like it. They have discovered that what they thought was muscle meat is in reality a large percentage of ground up gristle and connective tissue, so prone to contamination that it must be sterilized with ammonia, and they don't like it and won't buy it. I certainly don't blame the press, the activists and the chefs for blowing the whistle. Remember, if you are always completely transparent, there is nothing to be feared.? Not even close. What it really boils down to is, Americans found out what ABC’S DISTORTED REPORTING of what LFTB really is, which is 100% pure beef, free of pathogenic organisms, the word "slime" should not have been used for responsible reporting. I am surprised, of all the people, you the Queen of Googling, have complete been taken in by this kind of reporting, without checking facts. You actually believe that there is ." the sinew, connective tissue and other parts that aren't roasts or chops or able to be ground into 85% or leaner ground beef." You could have only gotten that information from ABC, because those are not in LFTB. You actually believe that LFTB is the only food uses Ammonia (and chlorine, where do you get chlorine?!), and that kitchen poisonous Ammonia detergent is, as demonstrated by Jamie Oliver (check it out on youtube) poured on the meat to sanitize the meat! If you are not so brain washed by ABC you would have picked up the question he was asking the audience is very leading: "The scrap is nornally used for dog food, do you want to feed your children dog food?" What does LFTB has to do with real dog food? If you are not committing "Confirmation Bias" you would have picked up what he said in the same video, "I haven't got anything against (Slime) burgers, I have no problem eating the burgers, I eat them and I love them, the problem is where they come from and what (Ammonia kitchen detergent) is in them". I will not comment on your characterization that Mexicans, Guatemalans and Somalis are by nature filthy and irresponsible. McDonalds, do you actually think that they did not do extensive studies before they started to use LFTB? Yes, LFTB is cheaper, but they found LFTB is more sanitary then regular ground beef, it is also leaner, and above all, taste tests showed customers prefer LFTB over regular ground beef. You object to BPI's making a healthy profit selling LFTB selling a healthy product, but you have no problem with ABC's attempt in gaining ratings using malicious means to destroy a viable business. NBC and CBS only mentioned the issue a couple of times and ABC repeated the same thing 10 different times. Freedom of speech does not permit libel. Drawing a swastika on a wall is not protected by freedom of speech. "It's OK for ABC's distorted reporting, because it has accomplished a good thing" Does the end justify the means? Don't ask me, Hafez al-Assad, Saddam Hussein, and Osama bin Laden can probably give you a better answer. Scrapple is made from parts also used in dog food, go ahead and have it banned. There is nothing untrue about the following statement, but is it responsible journalism if I was to report it the following manner:? OMG! Alarming! Disgusting! Do you know and have you seen in Italy, what they are making? Green mold, and fungus completely covered pork intestines with pork slime inside, rotting with bacteria for months at room temperature!! They sell those to you for high prices and, get this; they even ask you to eat them totally uncooked? Mamma Mia! tanto per tali rifiuti! dcarch