Well, The black locust will be fine, and it should sprout readily. It will form dense thickets that exclude other plants and trees..it's an aggressive native tree. I believe it sends up shoots from its roots, too. You should be able to control it by cutting down the suckers.

However, if you want to really improve your hunting land...please pull up those Autumn and Russian Olives as they're non-native, very invasive and very aggressive, and plant instead a mix of native nut trees and native fruiting shrubs. If you want, google autumn and/or russian olives, and you will see what a problem these plants have become.

Here's a link to a company that sells native trees and shrubs that are hardy in our area. There are also many other companies out there that deal in native trees and shrubs.

www.greatlakesnursery.com

Just IMO. Best of luck!

This is a joke right? Russian and Autumn Olives???

200 Autumn Olives AND 100 Russian Olives will completely degrade your hunting land and will degrade the land of surrounding properties.

I have never heard of this.

Olives are recommended by some for game birds, although I do not disagree that they will have unwanted consequences. There are better choices for creating habitat for game species. For deer and waterfowl they are of little food value and not much better for cover. Over time the benefits will decline, as they spread and create dense thickets. Game birds require open shrubland for maximum productivity.

Bobwhite needs grasses in the summer for nesting. Little bluestem, big bluestem, indiangrass, switchgrass, and sideoats are preffered for nesting. Cool season grasses and most introduced grasses are not utilized. It is important that the previous season's growth is available in the spring.

Bobwhite will eat insects and the seeds and fruit of native forbs, grasses, shrubs, trees. Wild plum, blackberry, and sumacs provide good cover. Osage orange is a good species for providing edge habitat and would have a lesser tendency to spread compared to black locust. Research has shown that forest species are unnecessary if shrubland species are present. American filbert would be useful for both food and cover.

The decline of bobwhite and cottontail rabbit in WI is partially attributal to habitat loss and degredation. A habitat restoration could prove benefitial to both target and non-target species. If cost is an issue, consider the existing vegetation. It is possible you could improve what is there with a controlled burn or collecting and planting seeds of desirable species.

I, too, thought this was a joke (or a troll), but at any rate I agree that the locust (which did not originally occur in Wisconsin) and the two non-native olives are not good for wildlife habitat. (I have no problem with the American plum.)

The olives do produce fruit that is eaten by wildlife, but the distribution of these seeds makes them VERY invasive -- they will eventually colonize the rest of your land (and your neighbors') and aggressively compete with other more desirable species.

The locust is also very aggressive and I don't see it as a valuable species for wildlife, though some people plant it for erosion control and for the fragrant blooms.

There are more desirable native subsitutes for all these species. Consider dogwoods, viburnums, hollies, crabapples, serviceberries, and cherries for fruit production. If it is the seeds of the locust that you want, there are related native legumes such as leadplant, false indigo, and bristly locust (all in the same genus as black locust) that produce similar seeds and are not likely to be invasive.

i am positive this guy was joking - he is trying to start a heated discussion about invasives and alien species. as absolutley no one would plant any of those things in an attempt to improve hunting ground.

No he's not joking. He's really looking to plant various thing on his hunting land. mostly for turkeys and i think deer. He's decent enough guy. He also planted wild plums. Considering where he lives they may not even germinate. I think olive and russian need at least a zone 5.

He's got like i think 80 acres. Ok i am jealous of that much land i admit lol.

he may want to do a little more research on his plantings if he wants to attract wildlife. so what county in wisconsin is this land. zone 4 is northern half. is it on the west or east side - northeastern wisconsin tends to be more marshy and can have clay or sandy soils. northwest wisconsin tends to be more sandy and acidic... turkey like a food plot and nesting/cover plot. food like corn and sorghum are good food plots. a cover plot of native grasses and forbs work great for nesting. deer also like the same things... when looking to attract wildlife - think of the total habitat and not just the food. they may pass through to eat but they wont stick around if there is no cover. what would have been the pre-settled condition of the land - in northwest wisconsin it may be pine forest or woodland, however in northeast wisconsin it may have been more prairie, marshland or savannah like. turkeys and deer do prefer the woodland edge/savannah type of habitat as they can see predators approaching and then can hide if needed. too many trees can be detrimental to that habitat. it is desirable to have tree cover but over grown deep forest is not the best habitat for either deer or turkeys.

I didn't know what a problem locusts were until I was shown a 10 acre area that had been cleared of them! Dang! Cost the State park system $12K to do so, too. Thorny b*stards!

Or he may very well have come here not from the native plant forum link but the woodland link. So had no idea this was only native plant only.

I was aware its only hardy to zone 5. But its his land and he may do as he wish with it.

You draw more flies with honey then vinegar.

absolutely - he can do with his land what he wants with it! - this is america - ya!. but the original poster (which is probably moonwolf too) mentions that he wanted to improve hunting on his land. i think the concensus from reading this forum is that hunting on this land would not be improved by the planting of black locust, autumn olive and russian olive.

Flies don't like honey, they like #$%@. Besides, who wants flies around anyway?

Kidding aside, it kind of makes sense to use plants that would appeal to the animals you are trying to attract. I addressed bowhite since that is a relatively common game bird in Wisconsin and the original poster hasn't clarified what animals he/she hopes to attract. I wonder if 80 acres would be enough to support prairie chicken? Wouldn't be able to hunt them but imagine fostering something so beautiful and rare on your land...

Yes, it's his land, and he CAN do what he wants with it....but when his landscaping choices cross over the property line and into my land...there is a problem. I have the right to have what *I* want in my yard...not what's forced on me by someone else's bad landscaping choices. I have the right to bill that person for the removal of the unwanted plants. And I would, too. It's not like information about Russian and Autumn Olives and the damage they do is hard to find. I have a neighbor with a very well tended buckthorn in his front yard. I spend tons of time picking buckthorn seedlings out of MY garden. I don't quite think it's fair. April

I'm jumping in here.... Years ago we had 80 acres and after adding a pond, some relative was told to plant russian olives along the pond for the wildlife also. This was probably 25+ years ago.... We ended up with the land and I fought those russian olives for years. Cut them down and they'd grow back thicker than before. They were thorny and I could see absolutely no value to them. I can tell you, we were sorry they were ever planted. I think years ago the conservation service was recommending them. Big mistake! (we're in Nebraska) Just my 2¢...

a. I have better things to do with my life then play how many aliases i can be. Yeesh.......... I sincerely doubt their is that much conspiracy going on.

B. i've conversed with him before via the seed exchange.

c. like i pointed out he may not have a clue this was only native only plants. you can get to the woodland area via types of gardening. woodland doesn't neccesarily sound only native plants in whatever ecosystem your in.

d. the nature hills place that sells not only native shrubs still recommends autumn olives for wildlife value. the only reason i'm throwing that in is he may have heard it from reliable sources.

and e. If you want people to listen(from a purely communication point of view) Being nice to them is likely to get them to listen to you via lecturing them.

all he wanted was info on other trees then the ones he has, so he can plant more. ANd if his trees end up on your land take them out of your land. One of the risks you encounter when your a homeowner. I'm sure those who like perfeckly manicured lawns that live next to someone like me who doesn't pull weeds until she knows what they are are fairly irritated too. oh well. Or even those that live next to dogs and hate dogs. ok enough of that.

but still me and madder being one and the same.............. yeah ok.......

I am always sensitive to claims that I and the other regulars on this forum and hostile, condescending, 'native nazis' who offend and/or intimidate those who post here about invasive or non-native species.

Yet, 99 times out of 100, when I go back and review the posts that are supposedly offensive, I find lots of well-reasoned and well-intentioned advice. Like the advice given above. I have ventured into non-moderated discussion groups and, believe me, members these forums are very well-behaved (though enough trolling and provocation will eventually get a rise out of some of us.)

My point is, people almost always try to answer the question in a reasonable fashion. Sometimes offense is taken, but the intentions are almost always good.

why should I have to break my back taking out plants I don't want and didn't ask to have? Do I not also have the right to enjoy my property as I see fit? My right to do whatever the heck I please ends at my property line, and I feel it would be unkind to have my landscaping choices negatively impact my neighbors.

Any nursery person that recommends AO or RO for food for wildlife, when there are so many, many, many, better choices, native or not...really needs to do some research. Cover is almost as important to wildlife as food, and the olive sisters don't even provide good cover. April

i too reread the above posts and really did not find any that were "full of vinegar" or hostile. perhaps when reading a suggestion that is contrary to what one would like to hear then it seems "not nice". and this isnt the native plant forum - and i did suggest some non-native food plots in one of my posts.

when attracting wildlife, you'll get the best results with plants that evolved along with the instincts of the animals. its not uncommon to recieve conflicting advice from people who own nurserys and landscape businesses than from people who work in natural resource management. as trends do change over time. what was reccomended in the past, through trial and error and more current information, would not be reccomended today. which is a common problem, as those old reccomendations will remain in place until a person is newly educated to the latest information.

We just bought 40 acres, 30 of it in pasture, not farmed for 5 years and having many, many locust saplings in it. We were told by extension agent that only an herbicide would kill these. That or hand digging and then the plants would still come back via rhizomes(?) or something. I see the postings on the invasiveness of these. However, we would like to keep the area available for organic farm use and hate to use an herbicide. Does anyone know of other remedies that really work other than hand digging? Thanks, Linda

curiousone, you may want to start a new thread. you might get more responses with a new thread rather than this old one.

but if you dont want to use chemicals - you can try girdling locust trees. we have had some success by girdling the largest/oldest tree while simultaneously and continuously cutting off the runner suckers produced by the girdling. its not always effective and labor intensive. offshoots and suckers from a girdled tree are fewer than if you stump it off. but generally the most effective control of these is using chemicals. i dont like to use chemicals either - so i understand your hesitation.

I disagree with most of you.

Do not compare growing conditions in Zone 6 to growing conditions in Zone 4. There is no comparison.

It is not easy to grow wildlife-friendly plants in Zone 4.

I believe Black Locust will in fact attract deer. Especially in Zone 4. Even if it is not a favorite food of white-tailed deer, they will visit a Locust grove just to add variety to their diet.

Let's be realistic. If you classify Black Locust as " alien " just because it does not already grow in Wisconsin, then how is it different from Siberian Elm ?

How do you know Black Locust Trees were not native to Wisconsin before the last Ice Age ? You do not know. You are merely assuming that this species evolved and has always existed in the Central Appalachian Region.

Is there an exact number of years that must pass before Black Locust is considered " Native " to a particular State ? The Indians planted Black Locust outside it's normal range hundreds of years ago. They used the wood to make bows. Let's suppose that all the Black Locust in Pennsylvania were introduced by Indians 650 years ago. Is that enough time for this species to be considered " Native " to Pennsylvania ?

Who decides how many centuries must pass before a tree becomes " Native " ? You ? Me ? The United Nations ?

????

Black locust is considered naturalized in many areas of the US. lukifell you can look up the definitions of native and naturalized in a book.

its not easy to grow wildlife friendly plants in Zone 4
explain that to mother nature. zone 4 must have been a barren wasteland without plants or wildlife before man started introducing plants that did a better job than those that evolved to live there.

Lukeifell,

I didn't know zone 4 was a desert before the appearance of European settlers! In fact, using your argument...wouldn't the whole northern tier of North America have been a plant-less, tree-less, lifeless desert? What about that pesky fossil record showing ferns and trees and grasses? And those darn mastodons......What about the core samples of the earth that scientists take in prairie remnants...core samples go back many, many hundreds of years, and show what was growing here, say, in the 1200's or so.

According to all definitions I have read in the books I have read on the subject..

Native means plants that were here, in North America, pre-dating settlement by Europeans. And it's very easy to tell which plants those are. Siberian Elm isn't one of them. Black Hawk didn't get the Thompson & Morgan's catalogue. Native peoples who were migratory often brought seed from plants around them from one place to another, and planted it, yes. ..but they're still native to this continent. They weren't planting marigolds and cannas. Not that there is ANYTHING wrong with planting them.

"Is there an exact number of years that must pass before Black Locust is considered " Native " to a particular State ?"

No. If black locust is not native to a state, it's not native to that state. It may be naturalised, but it's not the same as native.

If it isn't native, it isn't native, no matter how many centuries pass.

If I am wrong, someone please correct me! April

I cant believe anyone would worry about what to plant to attract deer. How about anything desirable or ornamental. I wish I could send you some of our north carolina deer. The darn things are like cockaroaches down here.

There's tons of them here, too....and we have a short hunting season in Nov-Dec at the state parks. Next year they're opening the local state parks up to bow-hunting, in addition to the season they already have for guns. Which is fine with me.

When I was a kid, seeing a deer was a real rare and special treat, and I still feel that it's a special treat, definitely, only now it's not rare at all.

I drive 80 miles round trip to and from work. On at least 1 of those 5 days, I see a dead deer by the side of the road. sometimes a wrecked car, too. It doesn't even put a dent in deer numbers, but it sure does dent the car.

I personally think it would be cool to re-introduce some large predators. Allegedly, there are 1 or 2 mountain lions wandering around in Lake County, IL. Many people have seen them.

The deer breed like bunnies here. April