I'm not sure about what to do next, but I'll be watching to see what others have to say.

They sell a couple of different grass killers that JUST kill grass. You can spray it all over your roses without harming them. That's what I do.

What do you do with the dead grass? Do you pull it out? mulch over it?

I'd just mulch over it and let it decompose on its own. If any surviving Burmuda grass peeks out just spray it with the grass only killer as mentioned above. I use "Grass B Gone" put out by Ortho.

Thanks Roselee! It will be lots easier to not have to remove the dead grass. :)
I don't worry about the roundup in the bed. It only works on actively growing stuff if you get it on the leaves.

The RoundUp breaks down when it hits the soil. No lasting effect on other plants. The dead grass is dead. Do whatever you want.

roselee - I was told "Grass-B-Gone" was, uh, gone! That stuff worked great (just give it a few days)! Can't find it anymore. Where did you get yours?
J.D.

Fertilome's "Over-the-Top" is supposed to be the same as Ortho's "Grass be Gone".
Jim

J.D. I got Ortho Grass B Gone about a month ago at Lowe's and also at the grocery store, H.E.B.

I would pull up the dead grass. Roundup can really do freaky things to roses. You don't have to spray it on the rose leaves to cause damage to your roses. Damage can happen if the grass roots are intwined with the rose roots. (AND can affect your roses up to a year later!) I didn't know this and learned the hard way. Ask about it on the rose forum. You will get lots of horror stories.

That's why I would pull up all the dead grass. I'm now pulling up my bermuda grass around my roses by hand with a cultivator. I don't know how 'Grass be gone' would affect your roses, as I've not used this. I'm definitely going to research it, though! Sounds like a light at the end of the tunnel! lol

If your grass roots are not close to the roses, and their roots are not touching, you might not have any problems with your roses from the roundup.

Just to let y'all know I've used Grass B Gone right next to and among the roses and it doesn't affect them AT ALL. Amazingly it only kills grass. As J.D. said above, it takes a few days. I haven't actually timed it, but it seems like it takes a couple of weeks for the grass to die so don't think it isn't working when the grass doesn't appear to be affected for a while.

Roses are very sensitive to just a whiff of a drift of Round Up and sometimes it takes quite a while for the damage to show up. I found that out the hard way years ago when I very carefully (or so I thought) sprayed it to kill weeds in my Mom's yard and almost killed her Old Blush hedge along the back fence (they were stunted for a bit but recovered), but sure didn't know the roots of plants killed would affect the roots of roses if they are intertwined. Thanks for the info Holly. Now that's really a bummer.

JD, don't know why Roselee's Lowes would have GrassBGone and not ours, but as you know, I couldn't find it last year anywhere in this area. An Ortho rep happened to be in Lowe's when I was asking the clerk about it, and he told me they weren't allowed to make it anymore.

I hope all this isn't scaring you Red. Your roses are probably going to be perfectly fine especially since you were so careful. A lot of people report using Round-Up around roses with no problems.

But just for my own information I went ahead and searched the Rose Forum and found a thread about the ways in which Round-Up might affect roses. There may be other threads. As in all things there are differing opinions.

BTW, RRD stands for 'Rose Rosette Disease' which is a viral like disease affecting some roses. It is carried by a wind blown mite. The initial symptoms are similar to Round-up damage thus the title of the thread. Haven't keep up with the latest on RRD, but I don't think it's found in Texas.

Here is a link that might be useful: RRD or Round-Up Problems

The grass killer I have was bought at a feed store because I couldn't find it at Lowes. I've sprayed it directly on roses and everything else with no harm. I don't pull up the grass afterwards cause I'm too lazy!

What is the name of the grass killer, cweathersby??? I would be interested to see if my feed store carries it or could order it for me.

I have no idea. And I'm not at home to check the bottle. When I couldn't find grass be gone I just went and read all the bottles at the feed store to see if they had one. They did, which is amazing to me cause they don't carry much of anything. Only the important stuff! It was expensive, but I've got a lot of flower beds- actually turned my whole orchard into a grass free rose garden- and I use it a lot but this stuff comes so concentrated that this one bottle has lasted me a long time.

If you would, please, send me an email when you get home and can find the name of it. I have one bed desperately in need of getting rid of the Bermuda (oh, how I hate that grass)!!!

Thank you, thank you, thank you! It is amazing how, in this heat and stoney soil, "economy of comfort" reigns! Most gardening here has a definite process or ........... you stroke out or go broke! I'll let you know how my beloved roses fare after the RoundUp application I did and will be on the look out for GrassBeGone. I did do the paint roller application rather than spray, hoping to cut down drift. Haven't decided what to do about the dead grass as of yet as lots of the roots are entwined with rose root. Thanks again for the help and information) I know an applied mulch would not help and any weed barrier would just push the grass closer to the bushes. Can't pull this stuff out! Any more info would be greatly appreciated!

Roselee / Jim - thanks - I'll look for the "Over-the-Top" also.

cweathersby - don't just send that to Carrie!! Post it for all of us!!

Carrie - I guess it was you who told me the Ortho rep said GrassBGone was no longer made. I used up one bottle then couldn't find it again. I got a great bermuda kill with RoundUp on my new beds, but every now and then a sneaky little stray creeps in on me.

As to 'Grass B Gone' availability I couldn't find it last fall and figured it was a seasonal thing, but maybe Ortho stopped making it for whatever reason and has now resumed. If you Google it lots of places list it for sale including Amazon.

I will be checking my Lowe's tomorrow.

Here's my sad Round up story: I had a little pecan tree coming up right under one of my roses. They weren't touching above ground, and it never occurred to me that the roots were probably touching. Using a small paintbrush I put a scant drop of roundup on the leaf of the tree. In a couple days the tree was dead, and in a couple weeks the rose was dead too. Roundup is a systemic non-selective plant killer, which means it will kill anything that absorbs it. It entered the leaf of the tree and was carried all the way down to the roots, entered the roots of the rose and killed it too. I will not use it again near my roses or any of my garden plants. Cheryl

I went to Lowe's today, and they did have 'grass b gone'. I asked if they were still making this, and was told, no, this was the end, because the EPA would not approve the product. So, I bought 12 bottles! Hope that lasts me!

Then, curious, I asked Why the EPA would not approve this product. The guy looked at it, and said well, it's 2, 4, 5, blah, blah, blah, looks like it's only a couple of numbers off of being Agent Orange. lol I have to laugh because I am soooo organic, never hardly spraying anything, but I DON'T CARE!!! I am losing the war on Bermuda grass and was happy to find it. :)

Here is something to think about and why I have always wondered why they still allow this these toxic substances to be sold to anyone especially gardeners. Read the last poster refer to 2, 4, 5, blah blah blah.....I am soooo organic. Notice that 2,4,5 T and close relative 2,4,D of the same family of toxins create as a by product the dioxins that made agent orange as bad as it was...but also read a little about the stuff you want to spray in your yard. Just think about it. It your choice and your life. I won't judge other but I never have or ever will use such a product. Happy Growing David

Here is a link that might be useful: Agent Orange from wikipedia

I apologize for being so flippant about Agent Orange. Obviously, this toxin caused a lot of dismay to many people, and it gives me pause. Not being a chemist, I don't know how close a compound fluazifop-p-butyl is to AO. I've looked online to try to decipher it, but seem to get conflicting information.

Anyone have an alternative to rid the bermuda grass in the flower beds?

Holleygarden: I understand your frustration with bermuda and anyone else that contends with this pest...The most disturbing to me after the reading of this article was more that DIOXIN is a by product of the manufacture process. It was never to be mixed in the product and this is what made it so directly damaging in the Vietnam era "herbicide war" campaign. The bigger direct problem I personally have is that when separated what do you do with this very toxic DIOXIN. You can't use it and it very difficult to store so where is all this material after all these years of making these weedkillers. In the end the 2,4,5 T or 2,4, D are NOT anywhere near as dangerous as the DIOXIN by-product created from making these "weed-killers". It was stopped being made years ago. But by law the stuff made still can be sold until the supply is exhausted. The PAN reference I was looking the other day says Scotts stopped in 1996. To still 14 years later have product seems unbelievable so I need to figure out how long ago Ortho was bought out by Scotts because this part still doesn't make sense to me as yet.
AS to the original problem. I still think after reading the post linking the rose/roundup issue that I think was very informative (that if used properly will be a minimal risk to the majority of users). After using RU for more than 20 years in all kinds of situations and by every method wick, wipe, and spray on anything from grass, broad leaf weeds and infrequently cut trees I have never seen any real damage that I could attribute to its use other than by drift or over-concentration in the applied method. I to this day use it as a last resort for a specific weed/tree problem that I can't control by any other practical means. It is not a product of (that's easier) it is a product of last resort. I think in most cases of RU damage that the applicator was at fault for the problem by drift/ or over- application. So this would still be my recommendation for bermuda in a bed that can't be controlled otherwise and the wick (brushing on) method will lead to minimal if any problems for 99% of the people. I am not a big fan of its use but when all else fails and you use it properly you should OK.
Good Luck and Happy Growing David

David, let me just say that what you say is all true, and certainly should be taken very seriously. I would just like to add that sometimes due to physical conditions beyond our control and not of our making, some of us need a product that is reasonably safe as we can no longer apply the "hard" dig and pull method. That being said, I still dig and pull as much as I possibly can, but then I have to resort to other methods sometimes, and RU has been my friend in these instances.

Thank you very much for the information David, but a couple of things aren't clear to me. You wrote, "In the end the 2,4,5 T or 2,4, D are NOT anywhere near as dangerous as the DIOXIN by-product created from making these 'weed-killers'."

Well, at least that's good to know.

"It" was stopped being made years ago."

What 'it' was stopped -- the manufacture of glyphosate?

"But by law the stuff made still can be sold until the supply is exhausted."

Do you mean the supply of Roundup's active ingredient, glyphosate, will not be made when the supply that was made years ago is exhausted?

"The PAN reference I was looking the other day says Scotts stopped in 1996. To still 14 years later have product seems unbelievable so I need to figure out how long ago Ortho was bought out by Scotts because this part still doesn't make sense to me as yet."

Does this mean that when the previously made supply of glyphosate runs out Roundup will no longer be available? And that presumably Scott bought up Ortho's supply? BTW, didn't Monsanto spend millions developing plants that were resistant to Roundup so the weeds could be sprayed without it affecting the food crop and called the seeds to those food crops 'Roundup ready'? Why would they do that if the manufacture of Roundup is to be discontinued?

I just read this on Monsanto's site: "Roundup® agricultural herbicides are the flagship of Monsanto's agricultural chemicals business. The properties of Roundup agricultural herbicides and other glyphosate products can be used as part of an environmentally responsible weed control program and fit with the vision of sustainable agriculture and environmental"

Sorry to be so dense but I really don't understand all this. I didn't even know that Grass b Gone was related to Round Up. I'm not educated in chemistry and thought that the 2,4, numbers, etc. just referred to where molecules attached to one another and not were not necessarily referring to molecules that were related to one another. In other words I thought fluazifop (Grass B Gone) was unrelated to glyphosate (Roundup). But if they are closely related it seems that Roundup would be pulled as well as Grass B Gone.

So if anyone can clarify some of this I'd appreciate it. Thanks in advance.

Part of an article posted on May 13, 2010:

"Glyphosate maker nixes investigation

"Monsanto refuses to join Albaugh's antidumping petition

"By MATEUSZ PERKOWSKI
Capital Press

"The federal government has called off an investigation into allegations that China is dumping the herbicide glyphosate onto the U.S. market at unfair [low] prices."

Whole article linked below. The one comment is also interesting.

There are lots of articles, but it can be very confusing if one isn't familiar with technical chemistry terminology. It seems some formulations of glyphosate have been discontinued, but others have not:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:HESXyUZ5A2UJ:www.ag.ndsu.nodak.edu/aginfo/entomology/ndsucpr/Years/2004/July/8/weeds_8July04.htm+glyphosate+discontinued%3F&cd=8&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

As for fluazifop being discontinued I found this:

"Fluazifop-P-butyl

"Pricing & availability is not currently available. See Related Products below for a possible substitute.

"This product number has been discontinued but a similar or custom product may be available. Please select the recommended replacement product below (if a direct replacement is available) or use the links to "similar products" to see other possible replacement products. To inquire about a custom offering, please click the "Ask a Scientist" link."

But I still don't know what's going on :-(

Here is a link that might be useful: Article in farm publication posted on May 13 ...

I am sorry to confuse and that was not my intent. Scotts lost registration for Fluazifop-P-butyl. This is what so many were asking about and that was lost (discontinued) in 1996 yet is to some degree still in some parts of the market. I am sorry if I made it sound like RU was what I am referring to. The OP was concerned about the result and what to use after so much discussion. I tried to tie the two together into one post and this is my fault. The 2,4,5 T and 2,4,D and DIOXIN are all related and are a part of the Agent Orange Link and the tie into the old grass-b-gone that I recall being on the shelf when I worked at ACE. Again I did confuse and am sorry to have done this disservice to all. Happy Growing David

Part 2 Glyphosate (Round Up) originally from Monsanto and exclusive to them until sometime in early 90's when their patent expired. It is still there flagship herbicide product but many others have been offering it for many years (generic formulations of glyphosate) at much better pricing of essentially the same thing. Think of the drug market as the same kind of thing (brand vs. generic). Since this is still available and I don't see it going away and is over consider safe if used properly I was trying to steer the conversation toward this as the type of herbicide to use in OP situation and for any have something like this as a problem and all else has failed. I am not an advocate for or against anything on the market legally but find many people don't understand or take the time to truly know how to use many of these products RU or grass-b-gone and many others properly. The labeling is hard to read, confusing and only if you know and research the products often times beyond the minimum that required on the labeling by law there is so much more to most of these chemicals and the inert or secondary products that are on the labels in very small print and may not be listed at all if the law doesn't require it. If I don't shut up now I expect I am creating more confusion and hope that is not the case. Happy Growing David

Thanks David. You did good. It's just hard to write about complicated subjects such as this one since one is not able to fore know the questions that will come up in the reader's mind.

The stuff I bought from the ag supply store is labelled "Hi Yield" brand "Grass Killer".

When I have to, I use Hi Yield Killzall. A 41% glyphosate generic brand but is the( same % as original Monsanto Round Up).
I will look up later the chemical in the Hi Yield Weed Killer. I don't recognize this chemical and want to see what I can find out. If I find anything worth sharing I will.
Happy Growing David

The grass now seems to be quite dead......roses still blooming. Tried to pull it up but it was impossible so I got out a shovel and it was quite difficult to spade through the heavy grass-root network about 6 inches down. I gave up since I see it will be impossible to get rid of all the grassroot. So.....I am going to follow Roselee's suggestion and just leave it lying dead and lightly apply RoundUp or GrassBeGone etc. by paint roller when new grass shoots emerge. I also added another course to the retaining brick and planted a rosemary hedge around the perimeter of the bed, hoping to shade some grass out (a feeble action, I have to admit). What I learned......NEVER NEVER lasagna method a bed over bermuda grass unless you are working under shade and/or have scraped the existing soil. Thank you for all the information!

I could be dead wrong, but I'm not sure scraping the existing soil of the grass will do the trick.
It might make it take longer to come up, but the roots are still there and it will come back. :(

With Bermuda, you have to kill it first.

Then later you have to kill it again! :)