I would think it could be idea, pretty neutral and can't beat that for water retention, but I'd still use some cardboard (but not newspaper). I've never heard of heating issues with tea either, but then never heard of nothing but tea and a lot of it :). So enough cardbard to prevent a solid mass of teabags forming once it's wet. Cardbard is for living in, moisture retention and structure (gaps/airspaces for breathing), wet teabags won't give the last.

I've never had tea go 'bad' like other foods can get when overfed, so I think you're pretty safe in that overfeeding regards. Heating and it forming a unbreathing mass would be my concerns and heating is just a guess (never heard about it with tea). But with some cardboard to keep things open enough, it really could be ideal. If you try, it love to hear how it turns out.

It sounds like you want to use the tea bags as bedding. Tea bags are not bedding. They are food. The tea in them makes them high nitrogen. Add them the same way you would add kitchen scraps. Worms love decomposing tea.

Some tea bags are made of both cellulose and thermoplastic which permits heat sealing. The plastic mesh is left behind after composting.

Here is a link that might be useful: Thermoplastic in Tea Bags

I appreciate the comments from everyone.

Regarding the heat sealing issue with some tea bags and the material that does not break down, the tea bags I have are simply folded and tied with a string. Consequently, I would expect everything to be broken down.

sbryce, I understand tea bags are food, but from reviewing different sites and input as to what others have done, or are doing, it appears that the paper and cardboard that is added is consumed by the worms.

My post here was to try to gain insight as to whether tea bags could be a substitute for that paper. The material I have for composting is organic and I want to avoid using materials of undetermined composition and sources. I realize the worms don't care, but I am trying to control the input ingredients for a reason.

Thanks for your input.

look_out, I would agree that used tea in itself is not a suitable medium for your worms. Like coffee, worms consume this material but get little actual food benefit from them. The low level nitrogen contained in coffee and tea grounds is great for vermicomposting when you are using the spent media either in a germination mix; as a fertilizer; or as an addition to your potting mixes. Vermiculture media should contain materials which the worms can digest and use as a food source: Choir; peat moss; shredded paper, cardboard and leaves are among the favorites. I occasionally add tea grounds, but I toss the bags since they don't break down quickly enough for my purposes.

My experience with tea bags is:

1) There is not enough paper to substitute for bedding. Yes, the paper is consumed, as is the string, assuming it is pure cotton, but you will still need additional paper to balance with the tea leaves.

2) They break down quickly enough, certainly faster than the cardboard and paper I use for bedding.

IMO you can compost with what you have but it would be a good idea to have a mix of other things as well. If you are aiming for organic, will kitchen scraps count as such? Pulp from a juice shop?
When I look at a tea bag, there is not much paper there, certainly not enough paper for a worm bin w/o adding newspaper and/or corrugated cardboard to it. Everything that was once alive but eventually break down to compost, just a matter of time and as the end result, you will reap what you sow.

morgan_3, you seem to imply tea is not a good food source, but list among your recommendations leaves. Tea is shredded leaves so I don't follow that paper or cardboard is better food. That will not be the only material so I will have to see how it goes.

otis11, in the original post I said I would add food. That would be apple cores, potato peelings, bananas, watermelon rinds, garden plants, etc. I did not want to overwhelm the worms with tea and other food. Yes, the other sources would be from the kitchen and plant material that is pesticide/herbicide/chemical free.

A tea bag is not much paper empty. However, I have tea bags still containing the tea that is easily more than a cubic foot.

Perhaps the original post was not clear. The question was whether with that quantity of teas bags could it be used as the medium for the worms to burrow in instead of shredded paper. Other non-tea food would be added. It would not necessarily be a foot deep.

Well look_out, I based that comment on the fact that humans don't derive nutrition or calories from tea or coffee, but possibly, like cows being able to digest cellulose as a food source, possible worms do the same with coffee or tea. Good point look_out...I would like to know the answer to that since worms obviously consider these as a food source. Thanks for pointing that out...good analogy.

I thought I was addressing the original question. No, tea bags cannot be used as the medium for worms to burrow in instead of shredded paper.

And just because humans don't derive food value from tea does not mean that worms and plants don't. Humans don't derive food value from horse manure either.

I think maybe if we go over the three things about bedding (at least those are the ones I read about).
- Gives a safe living space for worms. Cardboard/paper is very slow to break down, so it's like a never changing home for worms. Can't kill worms with this stuff if you tried.
- Gives some water retention properties, keeps worms moist.
- Give structure to the compost. Air spaces so the compost can breath allowing bacteria growth (of the non anerobic type)and happy worms. It's replacing the bits of straw and other fibrous material in the worms natural food like manure that give it it's bulk.

While tea is slower to break down and in a way looking a bit like paper, it's not like cardboard/paper. Pack it dense enough I'm sure you could get heating (impossible with paper) and maybe something anerobic at it's core. On the last point, aeration, it fails altogether. So it's not bedding. Personally I wouldn't use nothing but shredded paper for bedding either in large quanties and at the bottom for the same reason. Wet that down and you get a solid mass. Show me a cubic food of shredding paper that's then wetted down, and two months later I'll show you a slab of wet newspaper inches thick with VC all around it :)

On the point of food value, remember the worms don't actually eat the food waste, they live off the bacteria that eat the food wastes. Hence the lag time between adding food (even soft food if it's not rotten) and worms working it. It's just to get to it they eat the waste at the same time. So if bacteria can live off it (which is almost anything, and especially things that have any nitrogen), worms will eat it.

PK2, I would say you have a pretty good handle on things, however I would make a couple of suggestions. (1) Starting out with shredded paper or card board can be tricky, so you might want to consider purchasing some choir or peat moss to begin with. (2) Purchase a hand fork to work your media periodically, or at feeding time. Some people think that red wigglers don't like to be disturbed. I don't adhere to that philosophy, and my worms seem to do just fine.

I think that used tea bags would not be a good bedding source, because I think that they have too much nitrogen. Here's a quick review of what's needed for vermicomposting, from my memory and from the Manual of On-Farm Vermicomposting and Vermiculture:

Worms need a bedding material to provide a stable habitat. The bedding needs to retain moisture (since worms breath through their skin), it needs to be bulky and needs to not compact too much (since it needs to allow the transfer of oxygen throughout the system), and it needs to have high carbon and low protein/nitrogen (to make sure the system does not become a thermophilic--hot--composting system). You also want a fairly large quantity of bedding, which will help to moderate the temperature, moisture-content, and pH of the system to a certain extent.

Regular composting will heat up--become thermophilic--when the ratio of carbon-rich materials and nitrogen-rich materials are in the right proportion. Typically, this is in the range of 20:1 to 35:1 Carbon to Nitrogen. There are lots of tables out there that list C:N ratios. Food waste is typically 15-25:1, so this is too "hot" to be used by itself in a worm system (besides the fact that it does not fit the other requirements for a bedding material). Shredded paper and cardboard are somewhere around 200-800:1. I did a quick search for used tea leaves, and did not immediately come up with anything, but used coffee grounds are around 20:1. Based on this, I think that used tea leaves and a few pieces of tea bag material would allow your bin to heat up too much, and cook your little worms.

You said that you want to avoid shredded paper because you want a completely organic system. I think that you might be overly cautious, but if you really want to avoid paper, you may be able to use dried leaves or sawdust or shredded straw (NOT hay, and NOT dried out grass clippings) as a bedding material. Be aware that all of these materials are not very good at absorbing moisture (except maybe sawdust), and may not be good bulking agents (especially not sawdust).

So why are dry, dead, brown leaves acceptable but tea leaves are not? Dry brown leaves are basically just cellulose, which is basically just carbon. The rest of the nutrients that would be held in a living leaf have been absorbed by the plant as it gets ready for a seasonal dormancy. Coffee and tea are green living plants when they are harvested, and then are carefully dried/roasted/treated for maximum flavor. While some nitrogen will be lost in the drying process, it still has too much to be used as a bedding material. Some species of dry dead leaves have higher nitrogen content than others. This is especially true of trees that lose their leaves due to drought as opposed to winter. To be safe, check out the species of leaves (if you choose dry leaves as a bedding) and be sure their C:N ratio is greater than ~50:1.

Something else to be aware of is that worms do not "eat" the bedding, but the bedding will be consumed over time. Worms do not really eat our food waste. They eat the microorganisms (and the carbohydrates, amino acids and sugars that the microbes exude) in the system. It is really the bacteria, molds, fungi, protozoans, etc, that make worm bins successful. Worms are just the biggest and most visible occupant of the bin. You are "farming" worms, by providing them an optimal environment, AND getting rid of wastes that would otherwise fill up our landfills, AND you're gaining an invaluable source of rich finished compost and worm castings.

Happy Christmas!
Emily in snowy AK

Here is a link that might be useful: Manual of Vermicomposting

""I have tea bags still containing the tea that is easily more than a cubic foot.""
That's just it. For that amount of leaves (not counting all other "greens" you will be adding) the bags won't make up for the amount of C needed. I seem to remember from somewhere, we need to add 10x the amount of paper to the greens. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong in the ratio. And tea (even if they don't look green)counts as green, yes? I understand since they're dry they will absorb some of the moisture generated by your other food source but I still say you need to add newspaper/corrugated CB to avoid a slush in the bin.
I don't worry thinking about "bedding" and I'm sure neither do the worms. They don't mind laying amongst the rotting food as long as there's oxygen available. But I imagine it will be difficult to slip off a cocoon in the slimy area. And I want LOTS of cocoons.

Morgan_3, oh absolutely, it's why in my first post on the thread I liked the idea of lots of teabags, just not by themselves. Pure cardboard and paper not only has little food value, it's also hard to keep moist unless you've got a ton of it (depending on your system also, bins would be much easier). Teabags would work great keeping things moist and providing nice slow starter food for a new system. And yep, did the poking around with my worms when I first started. Only way to get a feel of how the food breaks down and how the worms respond.

Otis 11, I think most of the carbon talk is for regular hot composting. Then you want your ratios to get the proper heat or you don't get good compost. For VC, our carbon is more useful for holding water and keeping things aerated which is why the form (cardboard vs tree leaves) gets mentioned more than the amount or ratio. Leaves not being considered good bedding because they don't hold water etc.

"They don't mind laying amongst the rotting food as long as there's oxygen available" That can be a big if, if don't have anything to bulk it up (and certain doesn't go for citrus until well well rotted). So to me, that's bedding killing two birds with one stone. Makes sure your rotting food has oxygen, and give them a backup place to live if things go off. Bedding is one of the ways to avoid having to worry about feeding questions, and tossing more cardboard in regardless is much easier imo than working out how much and/or what to feed. With lots of bedding, I just toss in whatever. It's one of those 'can't go wrong' things.

What would you guess the tea bag material is? I've found that most of the companies from whom I purchase tea don't use a bag material that decomposes well---or at all. The blog from Boreal Wormer speaks of her experience, and shows a picture (if you scroll about 2/3 of the way down) of the results of decomposing 100 tea bags. http://members.shaw.ca/borealwormer/

PeterK2, you are wrong about bedding and carbon. Carbon and nitrogen are just as important for worm composting as it is for hot composting. The difference is that we don't want our worm compost to get hot, so instead of mixing C and N to an optimum ratio, we start with C and add the N gradually over time.

Sometimes I think the terms "bedding" and "food" are unfortunate. Worms live in both, and worms consume both. The difference between what we call bedding and what we call food is that bedding is high in carbon, while food is high in nitrogen. We could mix the two, compost them until they are past the heating stage, and grow worms in that. We would have very happy worms.

Sorry but I beg to differ due to scale. In small scale home systems heating isn't nearly the same issue. I have heating all the time, but it's local to the added food and of course no where near hot composting temps due to the size. The bedding base or later, a top bedding home (or even old VC in running systems), can be somewhere for the worms to hang out until it's ready to eat. Usually though they are in another section where an older feeding is being worked on. So I have bedding, but it's not necessarily mixed with what I feed so there's no balance of C:N throughout the system.

If your system works for you, great, but I try and not fiddle and spend time with making feed and I find that seperate areas with bedding or old VC makes feeding automatic. I dump it in an area, if it heats a bit fine, the worms will be elsewhere. Couple of days later (all it takes in a small system) worms head in to eat it. So basically I just make sure I've got a pile of cardboard somewhere (and my existing VC) without worrying about ratios. Most (home) systems are explained this way. Pile of bedding, make a hole, dump food in.

BTW, I'm not saying it's wrong if you want to mix it for a non heating C:N ratio, it's even an extra safety measure for your worms not to have any heating at all. I'm just saying in small system with the amount of heat you do get and the mobility of worms, it's not necessary.

I had no idea a question about tea bags would generate this kind of response. From this forum and other sites, I think I know how I want to approach this now.
Thanks to everyone for your comments.

By the way, Tai-tai, the author of the page you cited (http://members.shaw.ca/borealwormer/ ) said:
"Eventually I discovered that tea bags are made of both cellulose and thermoplastic which permits heat sealing. The plastic mesh is left behind after composting and I now discard the bag remnants when harvesting."

I mentioned in another post above that the tea bags I have are not heat sealed. They are simply paper that is folded and secured with a string. I would not expect to have the problem mentioned by that person.

FWIW, this link has a photo of the teabags I have.
http://i43.tinypic.com/2jaaziv.jpg
This link is not permanent, therefore if someone checks it out months from now, odds are it will not be there.

"The question is, would it be appropriate to begin a vermicompost project using these tea bags (that still have tea in them) instead of adding newspaper?" "I think I know how I want to approach this now." Look_out: And how is that? I ask because you received the results of much time and effort and a doctorate thesis level reply.

I would appreciate an explanation on C:N ratios for indoor vermicompost bins. How does this benefit the worms and how do you quantify this ratio. Possibly I'm missing something here, but I don't get the relationship of C:N to worm activity. This makes sense from the composting aspect, but how does that affect the worms?

In my experience no two bins are alike even if you are using the same media and feeding relatively the same. So determining the C:N ratios past the initial setup seems a bit arbitrary to me.

The only time I had a problem with indoor bins over heating was when I used a heat mat and left town for a couple of weeks without turning off the heat mat.

The addition of water ever couple of days in the blended food not only maintains the moisture content of the media but any heat generated by the decomposition of the media and worm food. And even if you are using a different method of feeding your worms, maintaining proper moisture levels should compensate for any heat generated by the system.

Since the worms get their nutrition from the microbes, and cannot ingest anything that has not been softened by microbes first, anything that benefits microbes benefits the worms.

BUT an optimum C:N ratio for microbes will cause a bloom that will result in heating. So you don't want an optimum C:N ratio for the microbes, but you want a sufficient C:N ratio to keep the microbes active.

SO, we "bed" our bins with high carbon materials, and "feed" high nitrogen materials over time, rather than mixing them all together at once.

If you have a flowthrough bin, you do want to add bedding and food in optimum ratios, just not enough all at once to heat up, or, rather, little enough that any heat produced easily dissipates.

Vermicomposting is not simply a compost bin that a few worms got in. Vermicompost is a bin managed for the benefit of the worms not for the benefit of creating compost. The reason for upgrading a bin from composting to vermicomposting is vermicompost has benefits that compost can not attain. Vermicompost can do what compost can not.

Even organic tea is probably packaged in paper whitened with mysterious evil agents making them maybe more contaminated than boring unbleached corrigated cardboard. Paper is not born refrigerater white. Chemicals are used to get it that way.

"I am trying to control the input ingredients for a reason." Not quite sure why people took the time to answer your post with out asking what the mystery reason was. Possibly this reason could of negated all of their responses for your particular use. Or if they had known the reason they could of formulated responses that may of been more beneficial to your request.

With the timing of some posts and the just signing on and asking one question and never to be seen again after a week of intesive questioning one has to wonder if students are doing their thesis study or if we are doing it for them. Remember that poster that was shocked worms had moved into his perfectly designed worm house that was a worm hut in a system processing waste material and posted just before school season ended about how to kill the worm infestation.

That was the last time this board had a lot of excitement.