I second the recommendation that you get Suzanne Ashworth's book Seed to Seed, and very strongly. As for tomatoes, for kind of instant input , go to the Tomato Forum,link above on this first page, click on the FA Q's and near the bottom you'll find a brand new FAQ on how to save seed from tomatoes. And yes, there are several white fleshed watermelons that have been around for a long time. ( smile) For any of us here to type out all that you need to know about saving seed for all those veggies is just not practicable in my opinion, so do consider getting Ashworth's book. Carolyn

Rex, With all due respect, it doesn't matter if you think that zucchini, which is Cucurbita pepo, will cross with Butternut squash, which is Cucurbita moschata, because it will not. I won't even address your zedonk example because that involves animal genetics and we're discussing plant genetics. You can't mix apples with oranges. You have to understand the Cucurbita genus a little better, which contains 12 or 13 different species or species groups, of which 5 OR 6 are domesticated species grown for food but of those, only 4 species of squash are grown by most people. Here is the key: each Cucurbita squash species (moschata, pepo, argyrosperma, and maxima) crosses with other squash within its species (and each species has dozens of individual varieties) but the species do not cross with one another, with one notable exception that I'll explain in a minute. So, people who save seed can indeed grow one pepo variety, one maxima variety, and then EITHER one moschata variety OR one argyrosperma variety with no fear of them crossing. With the C. moschata and C. argyrosperma combination, you possibly can have cross pollination, but only if the C. argyrosperma is the female and the C. moschata is the male. You don't get the reciprocal cross. With these crosses, there is little research about how/if they do or do not cross in home gardens because the research has been done with wild squash and Mexican cushaw types, and most people don't grow those types in home gardens. People who have cross-pollination issues usually have them because they don't understand which varieties belong to which species. Each species has its own specific stem, flower, seed, and leaf characteristics. Here's a very brief description of what they are. Cucurbita maximas have very long vines, very huge and hairy leaves, and somewhat soft, round, spongy, hairy stems. They produce seeds that are either white or tan with either cream-colored or tan margins and a thin cellophane type seed coating. The maxima species includes all varieties of Banana, Buttercup, Hubbard,, winter Marrow and Turban types. In her book, SEED TO SEED, which is the definitive book for folks interested in seed-saving, Suzanne Ashworth lists several hundred maxima varieties. Cucubita argyrosperma (formerly known as C. mixta) have spreading vines and large, hairy leaves. Each fruit's stem is hard, hairy and slightly angular. At the point where the fruit attaches to the stem, the stem flares out only very slightly. The leaves of C. argyrospermas are lighter in color that those of C.moschata, they have rounded leaf tips and few if any indentations along their sides. Their seeds are either tan or white with a very pale martin. The seeds have a thin cellophane coating and cracks in the skin coat on the seeds' flat side. C. argyrosperma includes most but not all varieties of Cushaw squash (excluding golden cushaw, orange cushaw and orange-striped cushaw which are C. moschata), and many other squash including native types like Gila Cliff Dweller, Hopi, Cochita Pueblo, Hopi Taos, and Hopi Teardrop. In her book, Suzanne Ashworth lists several dozen varieties from this group. C. moschatas have spreading vines and large, hairy leaves. With these, the fruit's stems out very noticeably at the point where it attaches to the fruit. The stem is very hard, somewhat angular and hairy. C. moschata's leaves are a bit darker than those of C. argyrosperma but they have pointed, not rounded, leaf tips and slight indentations along their sides. C. moschata seeds are small and oblong in shape, beige in color and have a darker beige margin. Within this species, you have all varieties of butternut squash, all varieties of of Cheese squash or Cheese pumpkins, and many others. Suzanne Ashworth lists probably a couple hundred from this species in her book. C. pepo plants have very prickly leaves and very prickly stems, and they are especially prickly by the time they mature. WIth these, the fruits stems are very hard at maturity and have five sharply angular sides. They produce cream-colored seeds that have white margins. This is a huge family that includes all varieties of Acorn squash, all varieties of Cocozelle, some but not all pumpkins, all crookneck squash, all scallop squash, all vegetable marrow squash, all zuchinni squash, and more. Suzanne Ashworth lists many hundreds of varieties that belong to this group and that includes many decorative striped and warted gourds. All squash varieties are outbreeding and are insect-pollinated plants. There techically are six species: argyrosperma, maxima, moschata and pepo as described above, and also C. ficifolia, a species grown in Mexico and used in candy-making, and C. foetidissima, a wild gourd commonly called Buffalo gourd. The name foetidissima is a clue that their leaves have an unpleasant odor. The fruit are used for oil (from their seed) but are not eaten. For seed-saving to be done properly to preserve the characteristics of each variety, you need to ensure a greater amount of genetic diversity by choosing your male and female blossoms from different plants of the same variety. If you save from a very small population of plants, over time you will have lower and lower quality of plants and fruit as you lose genetic diversity. I don't rely on anything I find on random websites on the internet because there is a lot of misinformation out there and often the info given is too general. I rely on books written by acknowledged experts and on info from university or agricultural extension websites. If you are truly interested in saving seed, you need to buy or borrow a copy of Suzanne Ashworth's book "Seed To Seed: Seed Saving and Growing Techniques for Vegetable Gardeners" which is the definitive book on the subject. If you are interested in the squash family, do yourself a favor and read Amy Goldman's outstanding book "The Compleat Squash: A Passionate Grower's Guide to Pumpkins, Squashes and Gourds". To save seeds successfully, you have to have a broad-based knowledge of the types of plants you are growing and a thorough knowledge of seed-saving and the techniques needed to do it properly. You need to know not only how to do it but also why it must be done a certain way. Simply hand-pollinating and bagging a few blossoms is a minimalist approach that can give you seeds that run out if you aren't careful. Running out means that you lose genetic diversity with each generation you save because you are saving too few seeds from too small of a population. What you consider simple and efficient leads to weaker and weaker seeds and plants over time and isn't recommended. I'm not saying that to be mean but just to emphasize that there's a better way to do it. Dawn

Seysonn, I've tried twice to do a post here with links to show you how wrong you are about that article as well as Jeff himself, and much more. But I can't get one link to transfer, but I'll be back to try again. I've linked to that article many times at many places and you have the distinction of being the ONLY person who has ever called it useless. I told everyone to use Jeff's article along with the FAQ here at GW that Dave lnked to. If you had done that you wouldn't be complaining about a10ft isolation distance, as you did, b'c I already posted above that Jeff's distances were too conservative IMO but he was doing seed production for a commercial reason. Right now Wimbledon tennis is calling me so it's out to theTV for that and if storms don't knock out the power as they did two night ago, I'll be back. In the meantime why don't you Google SESE and take a look and thus see that the site IS for home gardeners,not for large scale commercial farmers.And Jeff wrote that article when he owned SESE for the home gardener. Two folks from SESE visisted me yesterday, a very vigorous chat for almost 5 hours. They are doing a 2 week tour of many seed places here in the NE and that b'c they want to see how others do this and that b'c they are ones who want to always learn more, which is a good thing to do in life in general. Carolyn

On the OP tom seed saving bidness, an obvious but largely unaddressed issue here is one of proper identification. This is important if one wants to reprise the same cult from one's own saved seeds. I am no paragon of virtue on it, but I try to keep track of the tom cults. ***** Reg, I'm not following you entirely on this but I think you are saying be sure that you have properly IDed the variety ( not cults, aka cultivars) that you are taking fruits from to save seed. If so, time after time I have urged folks to NEVER plant a tomato plant unless the person knows the variety traits as to plant habit, indeterminate or determinate, leaf form, RL or PL or other, fruit shape and size and color. A lot of casually traded seed turns out not to be what the seed recipient expected either b'c of crossed seed or b'c the person who saved the seeds did not properly ID the variety being used for seed saving and the seed traded is pure but not the right variety. Carolyn