catman,
I am growing both but here in Massachusetts I only have two small green fruit on the IS and none so far on the CP (though many flowers). I'll keep you posted - I am anxious to compare them as well.

OK thanks...I look forward to tasting this one. I expect it will make a good sandwich, am I right?

I picked both these off the same plant yesterday, they are the only ones so far that have the distinctive stripes.

The last picture is an Indian Stripe (L) from another plant, and a Cherokee Purple (R). All of these tomatoes have since been devoured, all were delicious, very complex and rich, and i really couldn't tell any difference beyond the individual fruit difference.

But i digress.....in answer to your question...GOOD SANDWICHES WERE HAD BY ALL!!!!

I haven't seen any distinct striping on Indian Stripe when it's fully ripe any more so than the striping I see on Cherokee Purple when it's not quite ripe/

Mr Burson Sr, the source of seeds to my friend in TX who gave me the seeds said that it was known in the area as both Indian Stripe and Indian Zebra, and I chose Indian Stripe as the name.

Hoosier Cherokee who also posts here got seeds after I got mine, from the son, and his seeds were labelled Indian Zebra, so now there are two names out there for the same variety, but I've distributed seeds as Indian Stripe to friends, in an online seed offer elsewhere, and to Sandhill Preservation as well, as Indian Stripe.

When I first got the seeds I sent some to Craig leHoullier who was given seeds by JD Green of TN that Craig named Cherokee Purple, and I asked Craig to compare Indian Stripe with CP and he too said they were essentially the same except that the fruits of IS were slightly smaller, lighter in color and more to the truss.

And I never experienced any difference in taste between CP and IS, and I grew CP starting in 1992 when Craig listed it in the SSE YEarbook. I also listed IS in the SSE YEarbook several years ago so seeds are now widely spread around.

Craig sent IS to Mike at Victory Seeds from seeds I'd sent Craig.

So enjoy!

Carolyn

Mine came from Victory, Sandhill was all out. The striped ones in that picture are (were!) totally ripe, you can even see the stripes inside. But on the plant they came from, there don't seem to be any more quite like that.

As for your first question, the taste was very similar, though at least this year, I thought CP had a slight bit more acid to offset the sweetness they both have. However, it was really, really close and for me with limited space, one could substitute for the other and no one would notice.

I would add, as Carolyn has said before, IS is a little bit earlier than CP. For me, about 3 weeks earlier and in Texas, that 3 weeks is often critical as in that time, it usually gets too hot for much more fruit set. Translation, earlier = much more fruit in total. This was the first year for IS for me, but both plants were also much more productive than CP and more resistant to disease as well. I didn't notice any size difference in the tomatoes.

Next year, probably just IS for me, so I can try different varieties where I grew CP. FYI, this is a shocking change to me as I thought I'd grow CP forever, from the day I first grew and ate one!

I have several of each growing side by side at 2 different locations.

IS has been earlier and vastly more productive than CP. I'm guessing but I wouldn't be surprised if it was 4:1. CP also had many more catfaced than IS.

Can't say about size, both have thrown all sizes.

On CP, green shoulders are more promounced. IS is a little lighter and I've had a few with stripes but not as evident as Instar8's pics show.

Its not impossible to tell them apart at the extremes but but most of the time very nearly so.

We can tell no taste difference.

Thanks to those that worked on its developement and those that recommended it.

Its a dandy!

I grew them both last year and liked both really well. CP set better for me especially in the heat. IS picked up when temps moderated. Like it has this year. I plan on getting it out earlier next year. I believe it was May 6th this year which is fairly early for us. CP was bigger. And I agree I thought it had a touch more acid. I will grow most years. As I like them both. Great tomatoes. Jay

"Hoosier Cherokee who also posts here got seeds after I got mine, from the son, and his seeds were labelled Indian Zebra, so now there are two names out there for the same variety, but I've distributed seeds as Indian Stripe to friends, in an online seed offer elsewhere, and to Sandhill Preservation as well, as Indian Stripe." [Carolyn]

Carolyn, just this year I got the seeds from Clyde Burson's son marked, in pencil on the outside of the paper wrapper, "Indian Zebra." And just this summer I have been growing out two of the plants to have a look. So, no seeds are "out there" with the name "Indian Zebra" attached.

Over the past few years, I have sent out a blue million Indian Stripe seeds, yes. And a few I have sent out marked "B" just to denote selection from the earliest ripening plants with the largest fruit sizes.

Fact is, I haven't decided exactly what I'm gonna do with regard to seeds I save from "Indian Zebra" plants. They obviously are the exact same variety ... Indian Stripe that you got from Donna Nelson, who got the seeds out of Clyde Burson's garden in 1990-something and Indian Zebra that I got from Mr. Burson's son and taken out of Mr. Burson's freezer this past winter.

If I list them in the 2010 Yearbook, most likely I will list them under Indian Stripe with a notation of their origin and the fact that they came to me marked "Indian Zebra" and leave it at that. Dunno just yet. So, if there are seeds out there represented as Indian Zebra, they did not come from my hands just yet, and someone else has attached that moniker for whatever reason and independently of me.

But right now, growing two Indian Zebra side-by-side with two Indian Stripe, all I can say is I'm seeing some minor variations not unlike the variations I saw with my original 10 Indian Stripe plants grown in 2006 from Victory Seeds ... one plant substantially earlier than others and one plant with smoother shapes than others ... but all having superior tolerances for heat, humidity, diseases and adverse growing conditions. All superior to Cherokee Purple in fruit set and adverse growing/setting conditions ... at least for me. But all being about equal to Cherokee Purple in flavor and overall fruit quality.

Side note: The tomatoes on all 4 plants this summer were larger than ever before and are matching size normally seen on Cherokee Purple plants I have grown in the past ... 12 - 16 ounces, in other words. This may be the result of unusually wet summer and a cool July.

Side note #2: Indian Stripe, and Indian Zebra, are among the few tomato varieties in this exceedingly wet growing season that maintain excellent flavor and meaty texture when most other normally fine tasting beefsteak varieties are just plain watered down.

Indian Stripe vs Cherokee Purple? Well, some final reasons I will always grow Indian Stripe over Cherokee Purple is that Indian Stripe can maintain plant health and quality fruit production in 10-gallon, black nursery tubs far better than Cherokee Purple and maintains a more compact growing habit ... proven for me year after year and in all kinds of adverse growing conditions.

Carolyn, just this year I got the seeds from Clyde Burson's son marked, in pencil on the outside of the paper wrapper, "Indian Zebra." And just this summer I have been growing out two of the plants to have a look. So, no seeds are "out there" with the name "Indian Zebra" attached.

*****

B. I said two NAMES were out there, as they are, not that there are seeds out there.

I was being very careful with that and I'm glad you're going to be listing them under Indian Stripe in the Yearbook.

Carolyn, wimpering b'c Freda sprayed some Daconil today and a sudden popup storm, not even visible on two radar sites, showed up. Sob. D____ Late Blight. Sigh.

This is thread is interesting. I notice that Diane's Flower Seeds is selling tomatoes listed separately as Indian Stripe and Indian Zebra. The stated difference there between the two is that Indian Zebra is bigger, but otherwise the same (and she says it came from Indian Stripe). EDIT: They said it was a strain of Indian Stripe.

I see you've bumped up a thread from 2009. Indian Zebra did not come from Indian Stripe, I think you know that already from reading above. And what someone sees in a certain season is usually not the same that they might see in another season as to IZ being bigger than IS. Just too many variables as I've noted many times here and at several other message sites over the years. I started out in the AOL Forums in 1982, so actually several decades and many different sites since then.

And I left the original Gardenweb when it got nasty beyond belief and that resulted in the other message site where you also participate being put up and there was a mass migration from here to there in 2006.

Yes,I still get notices sent to me at home if someone posts in a thread where I have, some going as far back to 2000 or so when threads are bumped, but I ignore almost all of them except for ones where I think I can clarify or add to a specific issue.

Other than that I no longer participate at this message site.

Carolyn

Now that this thread is up ....

I am going to grow both CP and IS this year and to find out their similarities and differences. I'd be mostly interested in productivity as I gather taste wise they are not different. Or that is what has been said.

Sey

I'm planning to grow what Diane's Flower Seeds calls Indian Zebra, as well as Cherokee Green Pear, from the same store (which is a sport of Cherokee Green, which is from Cherokee Chocolate, which is from Cherokee Purple), and see if either of them do well where I live. If they do well in Ogden, Utah (where I think Diane's Flower Seeds is), they should do at least normally here. I tried Cherokee Purple last year (2015), but it didn't do well at all (no fruit, and the plant didn't grow much). It mustn't like drought or something, or else maybe it had a hidden fungal infection (all the Cherokee Purple plants were prone to some problem before the transplant; I got them from a trade; so, I don't know if commercial seeds would have performed better; actually, on one plant, I got a tiny, unripe fruit or two, and that particular plant may have done better with more sun in less crowded conditions; the other plant got plenty of sun and soil, but the soil was very dry.). I'm hoping for something that tastes similar to Cherokee Purple that will grow well here. (I haven't tasted Cherokee Purple.)

Do you dry farm ?

Drought or not. It does not make a difference. I always water my tomatoes as needed. In the dog days of summer I water them every 4 -5 days. But most other times once a week or so. I have to do it b/c my raised beds have a good drainage and won't retain too much moisture.

Sey

Seysonn, Are you referring to your Cherokee Purple specifically, Indian Stripe/Zebra specifically, or your tomatoes generally?

I think it was mostly the combination of the strong sun, the dry air, and the soil structure and nutrients (the soil drains quickly or something, since the clay is further down, as it's the top level of the soil mounded up in that area there), rather than the variety (although Cherokee Purple fared the worst in it, followed by Sugar Lump; Market Wonder and Galapagos Island did the best in it—Galapagos Island had smaller, darker-colored fruits in that soil than it did in my other soil). Most of the tomatoes in our other, compact clay-loam soil (which is thankfully most of the soil) did fine (considering most of them weren't heat-tolerant and thus waited for it to cool before setting fruit). I didn't dry farm them. I watered them every few days for a while, but eventually switched to pretty much dry-farming them when they got settled in. Although Cherokee Purple didn't get a fair chance, I'm still wanting a hardier variety—Sugar Lump, which fared a tad better than Cherokee Purple in the fast-draining soil, was very low on growth and production in the better soil, too, though.

I'm sure I could get some good tomatoes out of Cherokee Purple if I gave it better conditions. I'm just hoping Indian Stripe is hardier in dry climates is all.

Shule(about 4a)

Seysonn, Are you referring to your Cherokee Purple specifically, Indian Stripe/Zebra specifically, or your tomatoes generally?

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

I was talking about my tomatoes generally.

If you get a lot of sun and high temperature, then I would suggest mulching heavily to help keep the moisture longer and the soil cooler.

Sey

I've grown CP in the past and IS just this last summer. My experience is that IS is more productive AND is better tasting (as in fantastic) as compared to CP.

nug... which strain of IS did you grow, RL or PL ?

I have seeds of both but I have to choose one of them ( Space !!).

There will be a big competition among black/brown/purple tomatoes in my garden this year. I will be growing half of a dozen of them.

Sey

We plan to use hay or straw for mulch this year. In my opinion it should be a lot better than woodchips because if anything it should add nitrogen (wood chips require a significant amount of nitrogen to rot). If it were up to me, though, I would have no mulch on the plants I plan to save seed from (to acclimate them to the situation over the generations), but it's not entirely up to me insofar as the ground is concerned where I live. You're right, though. Covering the ground does seem to help tomatoes in this area (at least if you use straw or hay). I'm not sure that it helps heat tolerance (fruit set in heat), but it seems to improve productivity considerably. That's my limited observation so far, anyway.

Wood chips will steal all the nitrogen it can. it is good for around the trees and shrubs. Hay is much much better. Pine straw is another one I like

I use small pine nuggets Just to prevent splash and for its look. We have mild summer weather here. And I get no more than 5 hours of direct sun.

Sey

sey, as I recall they were regular leaf.

I was searching another variety (Daniel Burson) and cam across this thread. So then I want to keep it active for future reference and review.

As I have said, I am growing (Under light now) both CP and IS (RL), plus Daniel Burson. I am also growing couple of other blk/brn/purple varietie and they are

Black from Tula (my best last year)

This ,following one is a mystery. I got the seeds from store bought OP/HEIR. some people suggested that it is Black SeaMan. But now I know it is not. B/c BSM has PL but mine has RL.

Feel free to guess what it might be. The picture is my own ( store bought tomato )

Sey

Sey,here you go again reviving an older thread b'c you want to keep it for your own reference.Why don't you just save all that proceeded it to your to your faves so you can review it whenever you want to.

No,I'm not going to make a guess on that last one,b/c once a variety is seperated frorm its label there is no way of deciding what it is,andI know by now you should know that as well.There are literally hundreds of dark colored,beef shaped ones that look like what you show.

You know that I seldom come back here anymore when I get a notice, my choice,but when something interests me,I do if I have time,but I hate to see revived threads and you know that as well,and that's wherever you post

Peace.

Carolyn

I, for one, was grateful for seeing this thread, as I had never seen it before. There is some great info in some of these old threads. Probably the main reason forum moderators keep threads around for years and years.

If it does not interest you, then do not waste your time reading it nor replying to it.

NC person,where my brother and family now live,you have the option here to do a search of any variety you are interested in and pull up threads. There is only one Mod here ,and she has nothing to do with saving anythiing,it's the server to the site that does that.

I've been here at GW,now Houzz,since about 2000,it says 2002 on my stats,b'c the then server went down and lost all info for all GW partipants,so we were all readjusted to2002.

I said above that I seldom come back except when a subject is of interest to me.The Subject Title of this thread is titled Cherokee Purple and Indian Stripe and I have a very strong personal vested interest in both varieties,and several here already know that and what those interests are.

Carolyn

Carolyn, you were the first to comment on this thread and you did it with a smile. Is it really such a big deal if someone revives an old thread? And it wasn't Sey it was Shule.

My 2 cents ... they taste remarkably similar. I get better production with Indian Stripe.

I'm looking forward to Indian Stripe now…. though I cannot plant it this season, I'm always interested in discussions of black tomatoes.

As to the sidebar, I have to be honest, I don't see the problem either. Garden discussion is always timely, because someone is always interested! If a topic is revived and people want to discuss… what is the harm? How can the poster have any idea who is subscribed to what thread? If one does not wish to be subscribed, then why not unsubscribe or ignore? A reply of "Go do a search" can come across as a little hostile, though I'm sure that is not the intention.

The point of this community is discussion, I thought.

I could've started a new thread but I find a wealth of information in threads like this. Then we can add more information and new members can read them too. This is a timeless subject of discussion, not just for special case. That is the reason for keeping them in the archive instead of deleting.

We have to understand that people have different interests and preferences and ways of doing things differently. Even saying the same thing more than once (repetition) is not harmful actually it reinforces the learning process.

Sey

carolyn137(z4/5 NY)

Sey,here
you go again reviving an older thread b'c you want to keep it for your
own reference.Why don't you just save all that proceeded it to your to
your faves so you can review it whenever you want to.

=======================

First of all, Shule(4a to 6b) revived it on Jan, 2016, not me.

Second of all, I have my own way of doing things that might not be to others liking. Sorry for any inconvenience to you and anybody else !!!

Now I have a reason for reviving older threads, that are INFORMATIVE not time and place problems that are no longer useful.

CP & IS (RL) update 4/25/16

Both planted out 2 weeks ago, are doing fine and are about the same size: No buds yet. But my mystery dark one has buds and is more vigorous. Someone suggested (based on fruit shape/color) that it might be IS . But that is not conclusive. We shall see.

BTW: I have started a thread on Dark Tomatoes". Right now we are just head counting. When we get close to harvest time, we will start reviewing them as well.

dark tomato thread

Sey

Sey, I am not inconvienced at all,no no worries there ,BUT,I have participated at many message sites such as this one , as it used to be as GW,over the years,and more recently the format has changed with respect to who posts what and for what reasons. I encourage anyone and everyone to know how to search for information for varieties, whether that be at the site in question, as here,and do that first,then maybe fetchTania's superb database,if no info there,then maybe Google a bit,and if still not enough,then try Ventmarin in France. Some of the above disagree with me on pulling up old threads and my rationale on that.

I also have no problem at all with folks sharing experiences with varieties and all else having to do with growing tomatoes in a certain thread,none at all,but as to other places a thread just stops when there are no other inputs and that's that,and seldom does someone revive it.

So be it. I only came here today since I got the notice sent home,and no,I'm not going to stop that from happening,and yes,I was the one who first introduced Indian Stripe and perhaps the second person ever to grow Cherokee Purple,there are many threads here already about that if one wants to do a search.

I spent many happy years here but when it got nasty and someone else who was also here started a new website there was a mass exodus from here to there and now there are just a few from here who have moved there and also post. There are many new folks here that I don't know,and they don't know me either,nor what my own background is re tomatoes,which goes back to when I was 5 yo on our farm.And I'll be 77 yo this June,so many years experience and have grown 4,000 tomato varieties in the meantime and also a book I was asked to write about heirloom tomatoes,which several here already know. Now homebound and having to use a walker of course I can no longer grow the several hundreds of plants and varieties that I used to grow,but I have a local person who grows my seedlings for me,and someone else who cares for them here in the backyard, and each year I grow many new ones,since I vowed when I fell in Dec of 2004 that in my seed offer elsehwere I would try to find varieties that were new to all or most,and have been very successful at that and in the process have made many new friends in manycountries.

As the Brits once said during WWII and IMO is apt here,keep calm and carry on.<G>

Carolyn

Carolyn , many members here, and I. know your background, expertise in growing tomatoes and all the rest. Certainly you are very resourceful and knowledgeable that I admire and respect.

My response was just in reference to your comment writing :

"Sey,here
you go again reviving an older thread b'c you want to keep it for your
own reference.Why don't you just save all

that proceeded it to your to
your faves so you can review it

it whenever you want to."

I know you are busy in the other sites , and the notifications are dragging you here. But that is because of what I do. You have mentioned that you WANT to keep that feature in you profile. That is your choice.

And I also do things differently. That is my style and choice. I don't like to read a book, store things in my computer for future ?... I am about your age and have read too many books and earned couple degrees in business and technology. I come to the message sites for their interactive feature not learn to get another degree or anything like that. I have passed that stage in my life. I have done a lot of library search the old fashion way, by pulling hundreds of library cards, carrying loads of books home ..... I am done with that.

Sey

Thanks for the info contained in this post, being a newbie I've never heard of Indian Stripe - ordered some seeds today!

And there you go...!

Randall,

Where did you order your seed from ? I am interested in Indian Stripe also.

Authereyray, you e-mailed me at home and we've been going back and forth quite a few times now, and you said you contacted me since I was the one who introduced Indian Stripe , true, and you trusted me, I think you were referring to original correct seeds and I gave you lots of links to read since you also said you had contacted nctomatoman to send you seeds of Cherokee Purple, I'm not sure why, and I compared CP with IS R and IS PL.

I guess I didn't get back to you quick enough today, and that b/c there was too much going on here at home.

I was going to tell you that my seeds of IS RL and IS PL were too old to send to anyone and for sure those were NOT the original seeds that Donna Nelson sent me, no way, ,but that I did have fresh seeds of IS PL heart, stabilized by Marina in Russia, which took her 3 years to do from what she had requested from a previous seed offer of mine.

Same variety,same taste,just a different fruit form.

But I'm not going to go back and forth between two sites for the same issue.

So please do what's best for you and perhaps follow up with Randall. You know how to go to Tania's superb data base and even if you Google ,you will find MANY places that sell seeds for IS that are true for the variety..

When I used to post here when it was the original Garden Web owned by Spike ,there used to be a link where you could ask if anyone had seeds for this or that. Is that still here, I would assume so since it was very popular and was where myself and others posted their seed offers as well.

Carolyn

Carolyn137,

Thank you for the information. I apologize and am sorry for bothering you.

Carolyn, I'm not sure if it's the same place you mean, but there is still a seed exchange forum. There's a plant exchange forum, and a round robin forum, too.

In order to get to those forums, go to gardenweb.com; then, click on garden forums in the sidebar. Then scroll down to Exchanges & Trades; uncollapse the items under it, and there they are. Kind of hard to find, but they're there. Bookmarking each forum is faster, IMO.