I've been out of town for a while, so I haven't been able to follow the discussion here. Thanks for the encouragement and ideas. We're starting with some red wrigglers that should be arriving next week, and a "Worm Factory" my Jacquie asked for for her birthday. (Not exactly diamond earrings, but hey, she wants it, she gets it.) We've just got our preliminary aquaponics system up and running this past couple of weeks and while we were gone, the only thing we had to do was have a son stop by on his way to work every morning and feed the fish. The "sacrificial" gold fish in the tanks were pooping, the bacteria were converting ammonia into nitrites and nitrates, and the plant grew unbelievably well: tomatoes went from three inches tall to over seven in six days under plain ol' florescent light (and some sun through the window); stevia from under one inch to nearly three; lettuce nearly ready to harvest; spinach getting major leaves from just a few green shoots. We're happy with it. It cost $500, and we already have something approaching $100 worth of food growing and that's without food fish in the tanks. (That's for early April: tilapia.) No worms or Black Soldier Flies yet, but it's only a trial/experiment and we're learning a lot. (My own design: we have five grow beds and two fish tanks.) Learning a lot and getting lettuce, basil, tomatoes, peppers and stevia up and growing. Jacquie figures that we'll be able to feed ourselves all the greens and half the tomatoes we eat beginning three to six weeks from now (two months to four total). And we're still expecting two major frosts/freezes before real Spring gets here, so our standard garden will not be producing anything at all while we'll be eating home-grown veggies and fruit. The greenhouse is sitting in the back yard: we put it up last year, before winter set in. The "basement" is waiting for us to do the concrete and block work. (We have to have warm temps for a while so the underground utilities can go in, and so the concrete and mortar can set well.) As things progress, I'll be sure to let you all know what's happening. If they go as hoped and planned, we will be able to feed ourselves and many of our 27 grandchildren rabbits, fish, veggies, and fruit from our two aquaponics systems and backyard. No grain, takes too much space, but coupled with the literal kitchen garden (sprouts), we could eat healthy for years without ever going to the store for anything (and there are people out there who believe that there won't be anything in the stores anyway--no trucks and nothing for them to haul). All the best, Le Sellers

"Are BSF timid creatures, or am I most likely going to have them crawling on me or flying around when I'm checking out my bin?" Some people really love their BSFL, as much as we love our worms. They too worry about them when they have to leave them for a few days. My understanding is that when BSFL are about 3/4 inch long and smaller they are white. Then as they mature they turn black and hard like little armadillos. Then they hide. The flys that emerge are like large houseflies but they do not land on poop and then on food. They avoid people, poop and food and want to find a bit of rot to lay their eggs on. They fly erratically. Slow when they are just warming up. Then faster. They are black with some of their leg area white. I think you would like the fly and the mature larvae and not be afraid of them. The thing that is cool about the white larvae is if one puts lets say the remains of a fish that the fillets have been harvest from into the bin, the the BSFL boil over the remains so actively that the remains float over the top of the activity and wonder around the container while getting smaller and smaller until they are all gone. Maybe let your helper know that these types of things in the bin are normal so they will not be startled. There is the cutest youtube that shows a little girl with a handful of BSFL feeding then to her chickens. If they knew that even little girls are not afraid of them then they might be more ok with them. Me I do not even touch my worms except with a 10 inch stick. Not even with gloves on. Maybe the scarriest thing to ever happen was I had noticed a few things out of place around the bin lately. Things were a bit mess with the vermicomost. I thought I was just sloppy. One day I put food in the top of the bin and out of the bottom a mouse jumped and darted off of my leg. I screamed like a little girl. Then I laughed a lot because I screamed. Many people love furry mice as pets. Maybe not me. I wonder if he was eating my worms. I move the material around in my bin to learn what is going on. As I am more confident I know what is happening in there and as vermicomposting is not my newest hobby, and I am not possessed with knowing what is going on with the little guys, I am more likely to leave them alone. Then my activity with the bin would more resemble how sbryce advises. Like him I would flip the bottom material over for the same reasons. Or gain interest in flow through bins like I have. I would think the cloth worm inns would work nice for you. Just put the stuff food by the tons and bedding in at the top. Zip it in. Water frequently. Harvest at the bottom. Supposedly no need to separate worms. They do dry out fast but the activity of adding water is pleasant for some. Others may have fish tank change water they want to use. I would think that maybe the condition of the material might be gauged a tiny bit by just squeezing the bag. I do not have one. Some people sew their own. Having a strong enough stand to hold mega weight is important. I guess like not buying the first year of a car I am waiting for them to come out with the new and improved version. I think mine would dry out. That would be ... ... .,. very bad for the worms. A homemade plastic bin is more resilient in that way.

I don't think it's correct to say that worms "love" used coffee grounds, at least not in the way they react to melon rinds or corn meal, by visibly flocking to them while wiggling happily. I think coffee grounds just have a much longer lead time before they become worm-edible, possibly because it takes a fungal process to break down the cellulose component of the beans. I used to put my used coffee grounds in the bin still in their paper cone filter, but I found this creates a long-lasting clump of grounds that tends to dry out and become impervious to rewetting, and takes an extraordinarily long time to start breaking down on its own. The other drawback to solid masses of grounds is that they will heat up, which you can really notice if you dig around in the bin with your bare hands. Now I dump the grounds out of the filter and mix them together with the other food scraps.

Again, I thank you two for your input. I have begun to do some research based on the things you guys had to say here and I am becomming very excited about the possibilities and potentials I have in my present situation! I also followed that link you gave me, tclynx, and found the most remarkable articles down at the bottom of the page called THE BURROW. It has the story of a guy's experiments with his worms and his findings, which already gives me some understanding of why I may have all these worms after all. I am also getting a feel that it isn't brain surgury and that I can actually improve my overall soil condition while getting rid of my little bit of food scraps. This is exciting! I also located pictures of what other people are doing to make their worm beds, plus, I lurked through all the things I could find in the forum and I have a much better idea of what a bed of worms consists of. It seems that any bed I can build for plants is potential as a worm bed as well. Also, plank pathways with leaf debris or shredded paper as a base will also encourage the worms as that is what they were doing when I found them, laying under stuff. I think I am going to purchase one of the containers / or perhaps make my own container and do some real experimenting. But, now I know that I can keep them outside...and if they don't have enough food with shredded paper and leaf fall and downed rotting trees...then they never will have enough food. I will keep that bag of leaves and test for worms in the spring. I think that the worms may have crawled in there by themselves already and I will report what I find. I also wondered if I could put bedding in a gallon plastic milk carton, punch holes in it all over, keep it damp and throw in 3 pairs of worms to see if I can get a carton of soil and a bunch of worms. I actually fixed up that experiment about a week before joining the forum and I dated the milk carton. I just had to know what is possible as my main interest started out being plants. Again, it is appreciated greatly that you both have responded. I can't tell the difference between species or breeds of worms and may never be able to, but as long as they eat until my soil is beautiful, that is enough for me, at this point. Thanks a bunch of worms! =o)