Carolina buckthorn vs rusty blackhaw viburnum

gnabonnand

17 years ago

I used to have a Carolina buckthorn. It was a great looking little tree (was limbed up). Nice looking leaves. It flourished for two years after planting, then abruptly died. I don't know what caused its demise.

Randy

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gnabonnand

17 years ago

... I should add that the soil in that spot was fine, because after it died, I immediately planted a species Japanese Maple in the exact same spot. The Japanese Maple has thrived, and over the years has grown into a perfect looking small tree, although its leaves do burn a little during the summer.

Randy

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Beachplant and Barbara, thanks for the info. Knowledge overcomes effort. I guess some might not make it. That is ok, I just want to give them a fighting chance. I am not sure what type they are but their name is Hemerocallis fulva, believe from doing a little reading they are evergreen. The Hybrids are Hemerocallis. roadsde daylillies Hybrids At least I know who can take the sun. It is a killer if you get it wrong. I would not want to be out in it all day. Forsythia and Butterfly bush are so pretty, maybe they will make it. I live back from the water now about 2 1/2 miles. I just went on a buying spree with cheap prices. I have purchase from this wholesaler before and everthing is growing very well. The wind is doing a number on my plants. I hope they adapt. We had a freeze line come within 200 yards of my house. How weird is that. My house was ok but driving to work as I went downhill on my street about 200 yards. There was frost over entire acres of yards. It did not even nip a single plant. Thank you lord. I am getting ready to plant 50 lbs of Bahia Grass for the sheep. I ran irrigation last Sunday and will put sprinkler heads on this weekend. Poor fellers, they are upset I swiped a 100 x 100 area from them. They are pretty smart. They would graze certain areas at certain time of the day and select what they wanted. Kind of like a buffet. They were managing their food source. Another nice acre of Bahia will make them happy. Thanks for the info. I do need all the help I can get. Remember I just startd back into gardening last November. I have gone from no plants to who knows how many. The eater and all of my other exotic/invasive roses received a special place, tree and fence line to grow on. I am growing Fortuniana rose for rootstock. Jim

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The accident wasn't bad, but it probably caused a lot of stress. The drs don't know if she had a stroke or seizure or both. They do think the blood was from having a seizure & biting her tongue. She's also been on a lot of medication since her dh died & they thought maybe some of the meds aren't reacting well together. It was not an overdose, all meds are accounted for. However, they are sending her to a Dallas hospital where the neurological care is better because they're concerned that she hasn't come out of the coma yet. If it was drug interaction, she should have started coming out of it before now. Thank you for your prayers and please continue. Dh & I are going back to the hospital tomorrow. txgardenlady, this dog is so hyper I don't know if it's possible to fatten her up. Plus the fact that she eats her food & then hops the fence to eat my dog's food every day. lol My neighbor has 3 dogs, the lab, a chow mix (who is fat), and a little dog of some kind. I call it a tazmanian devil because he acts like he would like to chew up my dog, and my dog just turns her back on him which drives him nuts. btw, I got all my plants in the ground or in pots today. I was going to come on here & tell everyone what a great time I had with you today & then I got caught up with all this, and every bit of news was worse than the last. I was at txgardenlady's house today when I first heard about my neighbor. She shared some great plants with me & then we came over here to get some standing cypress I saw this morning. The gas company was clear cutting through it on another neighbor's land. Turns out txgardenlady & I have dd's who are friends. Small world, huh?

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Good thread! We specialize in uncommon native trees, so the top of our list would be: Yellow Birch - the Appalachian form is the prettiest, with bronze bark. The form in Northern Indiana isn't as pretty, with brownish platy bark that doesn't peel in curls. Red Oak - Somewhat clichè, but it is one of the most important trees in our area. Very fast-growing, too, and usually has decent fall color. Fraser Magnolia - This is our most requested tree, but we've had a tough time getting seedlings established lately. Very stately form, with huge tropical-looking leaves. We've got these growing in Indiana, and they're really vigorous. Table Mountain Pine - Fairly uncommon, but important for fire-prone areas of the Appalachians and Mid-Atlantic - This is our second most popular "unusual" species. American Beech - Common in our area, but not as young, newly planted trees. Should be used more, with its pretty gray bark and amber fall color. Basswood - For a fast-growing native tree, this is a nice choice. The flowers are good for pollinators - the whole tree buzzes when they're in bloom! The list could go on and on- There are so many native trees in Eastern North America that are worth growing, there's really no excuses for landscapes that aren't biodiverse!

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mango-tango
Original Author

17 years ago

That is so unfortunate about your Carolina buckthorn.

I've heard [not sure how reliable this info is] that some of our north/central Texas soils can harbor dormant cotton root rot pathogens. When planting a particularly susceptible plant, it often times takes a year or two but then it just succumbs quickly. [I don't know if buckthorn is one of those plant families that is crr-sensitive].

The happy resolution is your success with the species Japanese Maple. Aren't they gorgeous? I love their fall color and their surprising toughness...

Thanks for your response, Randy.

Mary

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denisew

17 years ago

I think the benefit of the viburnum is its multi-seasonal interest. It has attractive attributes each season. In the spring it has the flowers, summer brings the glossy leaves, fall is the time for the burst of red color in the leaves and in the winter, it has a nice looking bark.

I know of a Carolina buckthorn that grows in the clay soils here in Allen at a local church and it is surviving just fine. They keep theirs in a natural large shrub form. It is attractive.

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pjtexgirl

17 years ago

Geez, I have heard great things about both. I wouldn't mind having both. Alas, I only have one RBV. It's really lovely and is hardy so far. PJ

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mango-tango
Original Author

17 years ago

So far, the postings are confirming my initial impression that the RBV is a 'must-have'.

PJ, since you mention 'one' RBV, what can you tell me about its fruit-setting?

I really hope to have room for *both* a RBV and a CB. I've reduced the my very small turf area once ... I'm gravitating towards doing it a second time. There's just so-o-o much more interesting plant material than grass. More earth-friendly too.

So far this design is just 'on paper' as the house is under construction, so it's easy (and inexpensive) to change things around. Much as I enjoy the design phase, the installation is the *really* fun part. I love the hands-on gardening -- installation, tending, appreciating, lamenting, etc.

This landscape will be in a close-to-downtown neighborhood in Dallas. It's a corner lot with two conjoined townhouse units. So I do have some space constraints. I was lucky with the exposure (east-northeast).

So far, my design has a mix of natives as well as tough adaptives. Compact nandina, indian hawthorn, and abelia for small shrubs. Native semi-woody and herbaceous perennials for color/butterflies/hummingbirds. The pre-existing large trees are a beautiful, large (~60 yr) pecan tree, and a relatively young (4.5" caliper) red oak tree. The large shrub / small tree layer candidates are: possumhaw/deciduous holly, texas mountain laurel, carolina buckthorn, and rusty blackhaw viburnum.

Thanks to all posters, and keep those RBV and CB comments coming in.

Mary

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pjtexgirl

17 years ago

I'm new to TX! My RBVs were put in last fall I'm afraid. They didn't have time to set up fruit. I'll post it over the next year tho. Sorry.PJ

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terryisthinking

17 years ago

I've been away and missed tossing in my coinage but here goes:

I have 3 very wild acres(the back half untouched) that were dark like a jungle and had to be cleared. I found hundreds of Carolina Buckthorns surviving in the gloom. I found a family of 4 RBV's. One was about 10' tall, the others were seedlings.

All were disease free. Due to the lack of light, the CB's were tall and airy, and tended to bend over when extra light increased the topweight with leaves. But they recovered. Birds like both types, but I think the RBV win out with butterflies. They are both very tough trees.

I did notice that a CB planted in full sun by a neighbor was really densely leaves, and had to be trimmed up and thinned, so would suggest a little shade. Understory is a good description.

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carla morey

17 years ago

I planted both a CB and a RBV in my backyard last year, so can't help you with how they look or what they attract. You're right that the RBV needs a shared pollinator, and that is very difficult to find because all the nurseries that I have gone to in the Dallas area buy from the same wholesaler (all of whose stock is cloned, not grown from seed). But that's a bridge I will have to cross at a later date.

Carla in Rowlett

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prairiepaintbrush

17 years ago

Txgarden, why don't you set about propagating those little lovelies for all of us? That would be a very nice and neighborly thing to do!

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terryisthinking

17 years ago

Yes, PrairiePB - I guess it would. I'm always up for a "bring your own shovel" party. : )

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prairiepaintbrush

17 years ago

Seriously, do you have seedlings? I have been coveting both of those plants for a while. Gathered seeds, but the throw them on the ground technique seems not to have worked. Er...unless they're still in an empty cup somewhere... ):\

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terryisthinking

17 years ago

Seriously - bring your shovel. We have a lot of seedlings, maybe 2' tall that wouldn't be hard to transplant to a pot.
Just give me a shout when the leaves start to sprout so that we can recognize them. That should give you a headstart over a seed : )

Disclaimer: If you have a big pot - bring extra soil.
I've never asked that before, but then, I have a lot of pits in the yard where I've given away wild plants.

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prairiepaintbrush

17 years ago

You're the best, TXgardn!

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carla morey

17 years ago

TXgarden - can you spare a RBV seedling for me, too? I would love to have a mate for my mine. I promise to bring my own shovel and do my own digging. :-)

Carla in Rowlett

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terryisthinking

17 years ago

Another disclaimer: I have a great many Carolina Buckthorn seedlings. I don't have RBV seedlings to dig up. Unless they've gotten busy over the winter.

If you want to have a go at a Carolina Buckthorn Carla - it's a go.

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carla morey

17 years ago

Sorry, TXgarden, looks like I wasn't paying very good attention. I don't need another Carolina Buckthorn, but thanks for the offer. :-)

Carla

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prairiepaintbrush

17 years ago

Lemme know when they're ready and what kind of refreshments you'd like from the Swiss Pastry Shop.

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terryisthinking

17 years ago

what trick is this, witchywoman?

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prairiepaintbrush

17 years ago

huh? What trick? Me? If you are referring to trading a Swiss Pastry Shop delicacy for plants, the answer is easy - I get to partake in BOTH! It's a WIN WIN!!! woo hoo!

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daylily79

17 years ago

These have both been on my dream list - for no just a dream. Anyone in the Dallas are ahve a good (low cost) place to get them local... I have the mail order thing they never like it here that first year in our heat... at least that is my experience...

Mitch

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prairiepaintbrush

17 years ago

Mitch, I do not know of anyone who sells natives for "reasonable" prices. Maybe someone does?

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daylily79

17 years ago

Right? It is sad but they are all way over priced.. so people go for the bradford pears and such I guess,

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prairiepaintbrush

17 years ago

Must get better at propagation. Must get better at propagation. Must get better at propagation.

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bstgs3

17 years ago

I don't know about Dallas but there are several places in the Houston area that sell natives for reasonable prices.

I just purchased a Rusty Blackhaw Viburnum in The Woodlands at Pineywoods Nursery for $6.00 (1 gal. but he has other sizes). Here's Jason's web site:

[HYPERLINK@www.thepineywoodsnursery.com]

Jason's normally there on Sat. (also Tues & Thurs. I believe) but you might want to call. He has lots of other hard to find native trees and plants and can often get them if he doesn't have them.

Atbor Gate in Tomball, TX is another place you can find some natives.

Regards!

Bill

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bstgs3

17 years ago

I don't know about Dallas but there are several places in the Houston area that sell natives for reasonable prices.

I just purchased a Rusty Blackhaw Viburnum in The Woodlands at Pineywoods Nursery for $6.00 (1 gal. but he has other sizes). Here's Jason's web site:

[HYPERLINK@www.thepineywoodsnursery.com]

Jason's normally there on Sat. (also Tues & Thurs. I believe) but you might want to call. He has lots of other hard to find native trees and plants and can often get them if he doesn't have them.

Arbor Gate in Tomball, TX is another place you can find some natives.

Regards!

Bill

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Carolina buckthorn vs rusty blackhaw viburnum

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Carolina buckthorn vs rusty blackhaw viburnum

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