Awesome.

grow them and put me on the airlayer list

Congratulations!!! Sometimes perseverance really pays off! I am excited for you!

Wow, That is amazing that they would send you airlayers. Good luck with them. Hopefully they handle the bare rooting ok. Like Mango Kush said, grow them up fast. You will have a long waiting list in a few years.

Thanks everyone, I'm surprised they obliged with my air layer request also. Well, I explained to them the difficulties associated with grafting Lychees and I guess they knew that if they sent me just scion wood, it would be nearly impossible to graft. I should recieve them tomorrow. Cross your fingers everyone!

Very nice grab Simon, I hope they show up in great shape. I wonder how many people since your post have contacted Dr. Zee? I know we have quite a few pineapple 'researchers' on this board.

good luck,
-Ethan

Yes Yes Yesss!!! I got the Kwa Luk in today and they are looking great with leaves and branches in great condition, no noticeable stress and the plants did not come bare rooted either. They were wrapped in moist peat moss which was wrapped in several layers of aluminum foil. The roots that I could see looked very healthy.

I'll go home and take some pics. I'll try to post some pics but it may take a while because I suck with computers. I hope the Kwa Luk is as good as its reputation!

Kwa Luk pic

Pic 2

Wow... I sure am envious!! They're very nice and healthy looking plants. What great luck you have!
Bo

wow, they look like nursery stock.

Here is a link that might be useful: Prof Groff gives a possible explanation of why there is more than one Kwa Luk cultivar in the Hilo germplasm

Yeah, I'm so glad they came in healthy. Hopefully I can keep them that way. They do look like nursery stock, I was so happy that they sent me some nice specimens that were thick and had good roots growing already instead of a thin weak air layer. The people at the USDA in Hilo Hawaii are very nice and actually sent the air layers with an instructions sheet on how to take care of these layers for the first month.

Hey mango kush, thanks for the great link. Do you happen to have the page number where Prof Groff gives the explanation regarding the Kwa Luk in the Hilo germplasm? I browsed through the entire article but missed it.

Simon,

Beautiful trees you have there. What kind of process did you have to go through to receive the trees from USDA Hilo program?

Yeah, I too would like to know what kind of process you went through to get the nice folks at the USDA in Hilo to send ya some very nice plants.
Bo

Simon, read the page that is linked Groff explains how many Chinese deceptively pawned new cultivars off as Kwa Luk, these cultivars still exist today but are not highly regarded by Chinese

they used to have more than one accession for no mai tze too, they changed their site around a bit or i cant find the old page with the list of cultivars

Groff wrote that book in 1921, im not sure the germplasm even existed then

Thanks mango kush, yeah, I did also see two or more accessions for No Mai Tsze also at the USDA website. I'm hoping that I have the real thing. The book talks about air layers from the same tree producing inferior fruits when compared to the original tree, likely because of the different soil and water but I don't buy it. I think the good soil we can get at the nurseries is comparable if not better than the soil they have there. Of course the different growing conditions including soil, water, amount of sunlight ect can affect the taste of the fruit but I doubt the difference would be that dramatic.

My only fears are that some farmer in China donated or sold his fake "Kwa Luk" to the USDA collector. The USDA did have a dissclaimer saying that they make every effort to authenticate the cultivar of their trees but that is still no gaurantee.

Hey nullzero and yaslan, I simply contacted them, filled out the application and wrote them a very long explanation on how long I've been looking for this specimen and the difficulties associated with grafting lychees. I didn't tell them I was a researcher or anything, even though I am, because I am doing this as a hobby. I told them I would document the growing process on this forum and also keep them updated on the progress of the Kwa Luk air layers growth through email.

I will do my best to pamper these air layers and when they get large enough, I am more than willing to share some air layers although it will definitely take some time for these to reach the appropriate size.

Im a bit of a skeptic too about a lychee airlayer only a few yards from its mother tree producing varying fruit, the book was written in 1921, I wonder what has become of the tree since.

I know Emperor lychees fruit are variable according to region. i think because it is a "mountain lychee"

I think most fruit vary according to region but the fruit should retain at least some of its characteristics. Who's to say that the new location it is planted at isn't even better than the original location. For example, Phase001 and I ordered some Sweetheart Lychees online a while back which were grown in Florida which has approx 1-2 months earlier harvest than here in San Diego. When we compared the Sweetheart fruit grown at Phase's house, they actually tasted sweeter. This could be because of where it was grown but it could also have been that the one's at Phase's house were picked right off the tree and didn't have to go through shipping ect...

HOLY CRAP!!!! I'm gone for a while and this happens. Why the hell didn't I just ask them to air-layer some for me instead of trying the grafting route?!?!?!?! DOH!

Well, lesson learned I guess. Put me down for an air-layer when they mature a bit more, Simon. They look great, and I'm sure you'll nurture them well.

Simon, thanks for explaining the process you went through. I will most definitely keep this in mind (next time I order from the national germplasm). I can't wait to see updates on your Kwa Luk Lychee progress!
Bo

Simon,

Are you going to grow the Kwa Luk in a container or in ground? I have heard mixed results with fruiting lychees in Socal. I have no experience with lychee growing, perhaps a nice micro climate would help improve this (maybe misters to raise humidity levels).

Hey north tree man, long time no see! I figure I had about a 0.00001% chance of grafting a Lychee scion so I figured why not just ask them for an air layer. They probably wouldn't have given me the air layer if not for my explanation on how difficult it is to acquire a specimen of Kwa Luk and also the diffiulties associated with grafting lychees.

You are very welcome yaslan, I'll keep everybody updated. I don't care if it takes me 10+ years to get this plant to fruit but I will do everything in my power to taste the fruit from this Kwa Luk. Whether it tastes horribly sour or exceptionally sweet, at least I can say that the fruit from this specific accession number donated from the USDA in Hilo Hawaii grown in San Diego CA is good or bad quality. The more we backyard hobbyist document the process and verify or discount the quality of a specific cultivar, the better it is for furthering the rare fruit hobby.

nullzero, the air layers are currently in a their original root ball wrapped with spagnum peat moss and aluminum foil and I simply put a clear plastic bag over them with a couple of holes punched around the bag in order to retain high humidity and allow for some air flow. They are currently in my kitchen where they get about 30-50% shade. I am waiting for my shipment of mycorrhizal fungi from Fungi Perfecti so I can innoculate the roots before I transplant these air layers into a 2 gallon container.

When I transplant, I will be using 3/4 Danish Potting soil and 1/4 Spagnum Peat Moss. Danish potting soil is a very good potting soil with lots of organic amendments and is excellent for Lychees because it has an acidic pH. I am going to incorporate peat moss to increase the acididy and to help the mycorrhizal fungi thrive. After I get these Kwa Luk air layers into this potting mix, hopefully by next week, I will maintain a humidity dome on them for one month while the roots grow out into the potting mix.

After one month, I will remove the humidity dome and gradually increase the amount of light the plants get. Once I see new growth, I will use a very diluted mixture of organic fish emulsion and organic kelp meal to give the air layers a burst of nutrients.

I will keem these air layers potted for one or two years depending on their growth rate. I'm doing this so that the air layers can gain some size and also get accustomed to the San Diego weather. If we get frost, I can simply take them inside. After one or two years, these trees should be able to withstand a little bit of cold.

nullzero, the micro climate we have here in San Diego is actually perfect for fruiting lychees. One of the No Mai Tsze Lychees from the Hawaii USDA field station only fruited twice in the last ~ approx 15 years. No Mai Tsze is notoriously difficult to fruit but with the chilling hours we get here in San Diego, a nursery called Exotica in Vista CA was able to fruit the No Mai Tsze for at least two years in a row although there were very few fruit last year.

Also remember that Phase001 easily fruited his Sweetheart Lychee last year, although his tree and mine dropped all its fruit this year. In my opinion, many people growing lychees in CA are not aware of the Lychees very specific growing and fruiting patterns. For example, many back yard farmers here are not aware that you are supposed to withhold fertilizer (Nitrogen) many months before you expect flowering. Many people are also unaware of drought stress inducing (or at least helping) with future flower panicle developement.

Many nursery workers here in San Diego, and I've contacted many, are still under the false belief that only Brewster and Mauritius can successfully fruit here in Southern California.

Misting or increased humidity for these young air layers will definitely help them survive in the first month or two but from my personal experience with my Sweetheart Lychee, humidity does not seem to be much of a factor in the health of established 2-3 year old trees. What I did notice is that strong winds tend to give the newly developing leaves the signature burnt leaf tips typical of lychee trees here in SoCal.

Simon,

Sounds like you have a very detailed plan, that is very thought out. My garden is a little farther north from you in south Orange County. I would love to check out the progress of the tree perhaps sometime soon.

If your interested (or have extra room), I have an assortment of pomegranate trees and kiwi vines that I can give you some cuttings of. I also obtained a Prickly pear pad collected from Peru, the fruit is very tasty (I should have pads able in 2 months).

Hey nullzero, feel free to contact me when you want to come down and check out my plants. Keep in mind that I just moved into this house and all my trees are still very small, actually, most my trees are not even delivered yet! I am getting a huge shipment of Mangoes from Plantogram this week. Thanks for the offer but I will have to decline on the cuttings as my backyard is extremely small.

Bad news everyone, one of the Kwa Luk air layers leaves have all turned brown and are about to drop but the other air layer is in perfect condition. They are both in the same humidity tent and given the same care so I'm not sure why this one is dieing. Anyone have any guess? It was about 90+F on the day of delivery and one plant was on top of the other. I'll try to post some pics soon.

Hey Simon, how are you and the air layers doing ? Did they both make it? Will be checking for your update. Max

Hello Max, I'm doing fine. When I recieved the two air layers, they were both doing great but within one or two weeks, one of the air layers started to drop all of its leaves and that air layer is now gone. When the air layer died, I peeled back the aluminum foil that wrapped the roots and it appeared as if all the roots were detached from the trunk of the tree as if someone perhaps unwrapped the tree for inspection and then accidentally squeezed the root ball too hard.

The two air layers were treated exactly the same and I only have that one other one left. It is doing very well considering I have been keeping it indoors ever since I recieved it. All of its original leaves have fallen off and were replaced by approx the same number of new leaves. Once the weather in San Diego stabilizes, I will slowly acclimate it to the outdoors and then bring it back in again during the winter.

Because this variety is so rare, I'm going to be extra careful with it. I recently contacted the USDA at Hilo again, where I got these air layers, and they said they will no longer ship air layers due to the difficulty in cleaning the roots but they will ship scions that an expert gardener may graft.

My Kwa Luk air layer is still the same height but is slightly wider due to the new growth and the roots have completely filled the pot it is in and the roots are even starting to come out of the drainage holes. Hopefully the stronger light outside will help it gain some size this growing season.

Simon - so can anyone request scions of any kind of plant out there in existence from them?

How did you know they'd send something to you?

mangoD

Mangodog,
You can request any germplasm that they have available in any of the USDA collections. It is not guaranteed that they will send it if it is a plant or variety that is readily available commercially. I have gotten many different varieties of pineapple from the USDA in Hilo using this website.

After you fill out the request form they usually respond and let you know whether they are sending out the material or how long it will be before they do send it.

Here is a link that might be useful: USDA NPGS

I was thinking about grafting lychees, supposedly it is very difficult to do and the USDA has a policy of "they will ship scions that an expert gardener may graft." I have a friend that grows macadamia trees and has shared scions with another friend. They were able to get very high % of takes by girdling the scions month(s) in advance of cutting them from the mother tree. I wonder if this would help in the lychee's case?

-Ethan

mangoD, murahilin is correct. Just see what they have listed and make sure its an active accession because many of the varieties they have listed are no longer active.

red sea me, its not actually USDA policy that "they will ship scions that an expert gardener may graft", I just threw that in there because I have read that it is very difficult to graft lychees.

There are techniques that have been suggested to me by the USDA as a way of increasing the chances of the grafts taking. They recommended a top wedge graft. http://www.ctahr.hawaii.edu/oc/freepubs/pdf/F_N-2.pdf
It is very important to cut the stock above the leaf node.

Thanks Simon and Mura - I went on that site and saw only one mango that appeared available - a lot of scientific names being thrown around (headache!)...think I'll stick with what I got for now.....

mangofox

Could someone post the link to the USDA website so I can go look up something if interests?

Simon, how are the trees doing now? would love to strike a deal like yours.

Thanks

Hey behlgarden, last year, I requested air layers from "No Mai Tsze" but the USDA at Hilo said that they can no longer ship rooted air layers due to the difficulty in cleaning them before shipping. I recieved two Kwa Luk air layers and treated them both the same but one died and the other was planted into the ground about 6 months ago. New growth is sprouting out but the new growth keeps getting burnt edges, I believe due to wind burn. My Kwa Luk is only slightly larger than it was when I recieved it as an air layer. I'm hoping its just establishing its roots before putting out strong growth.
Simon

well, I went ahead and put in a request for a no mai tsze. i gave a (truthful) sob story why I was asking for a airlayer rather than graft- lets see what happens.
simon- how long was it from request to receipt of airlayer? do you think they did a custom air layer for you or do you think they had those lying around