Salvias and Agastaches (wintersown too btw)

Penny

Try yucca. They are hardy up north here and they put out real nice "torches" of flowers.

Susan,
When I read the headline of your message I thought you had just returned from 'Nature's flower show' of the Death Valley in California!! Saw pictures last night on the news, and they made me want to go there!! What a show!

Anyway, I am jealous of your trip.. I LOVE wildflowers (saw an incredible 'show' last July in Western Montana (Glacier National Park).. very different from the 'desert wildflowers'. I brought seed packets from there, but only the Perennial Flax and the Indian Blanket Flower made it...

Anyway.. did you get seeds there? Even in very sandy soil, they may not be 'at home' in our area as we have so much summer humidity, and much snow in the winter. However, some other varieties might make it.

Of the ones that I have tried successfully :
california poppies (winter sown)
phacelia viscida (winter sown and indoors) --great blue flower, for early spring--seeds from Thompson & Morgan
many penstemons
blue lupines, but probably not the 'desert ones'--they also are great candidates for winter sowing

Do you have pictures?? Would love to see them..
Good luck
Anne-Marie

IES has been selling hardy Opuntia for the last few years. It's an eastern native, and should do quite well in sand.

Aside from that, it would be nice to know what species you are looking at. My parents live in Scottsdale, and there is almost no overlap between what they grow and what I grow, though I was seriously tempted to snatch some tender salvia cuttings at Christmas.

Mad, what's IES? I've seen opuntia in neighbor's gardens and couldn't believe it.

Ann-Marie, I was in the Tucson area (Saguaro National Park). We went just for the wildflowers and were treated to the most spectacular show of Mexican gold poppies, parry's penstemon, blue lupines (short!) and of course those majestic saguaros. What a lush desert the Sonoran is.

Click on the site below to see updated pics of wildflowers in the SW desert right now. Unbelievably gorgeous because of all the rain this winter.

I didn't buy seed there because I never have luck that way (usually old). I bought some gold poppy seeds at my local garden center and ordered some hardy penstemons from Bluestone. The Parry's penstemon isn't hardy here (drats). That plant, 3 feet tall of purple trumpet covered stems, sitting like a princess specimen in the middle of dry washes, was captivating.

I'm going out to get some phacelia seeds. I am printer/scanner challenged at the moment, so I can't post pics now. Visit the site to see what my pics look like!

By the way, it was funny to see all their cultivated gardens and containers with pansies and other spring plants we use up here.

Here is a link that might be useful: desert wildflowers..what a show!

IES - Institute of Ecosystems Studies in Millbrook. They have two plant sales a year, spring and fall. A good source for the not-quite-everywhere plant :-)

Here is a link that might be useful: IES

My opuntia has survived 2 winters now in the ground right here in Albany. One of the pads actually fell off and rooted into the ground as well. I love the yellow flowers, plus it has the added bonus that the neighbor's kids won't pick from that plant. Here's a picture...please nevermind the crabgrass that's visible in that bed...it's hard to weed out with the cactus over it!

Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:1323457}}

Susan, I am growing some Penstemon x Mexicali 'Red Rocks' this year. It is supposed to be hardy to -30 degrees. I also have Salvia Guaranitica 'Black & Blue and several hybrids of the Black & Blue that have naturally cross pollinated which I grow in large containers and then either bring them inside for the winter or take and root cuttings in late summer.

Penny

Wow, those opuntia blooms are gorgeous. I'm getting them! Mad, thanks for the tip. I was at the IES (across the Hudson from me) about 20 years ago.

No phacelia at Adams. I'll mail order it.

So salvia are desert plants? I grow lots of cultivars, but they're annuals here. I guess none were in bloom when I was in Tucson.

Yes, Tom, I grew yucca when I lived in Kingston...they were very tough with nice flowers.

Which of the above do deer leave alone?

Susan,
Thank you for the link. Great pictures of lupines and California /Mexican poppies! Would love to be there!

The phacelia I mentioned is different in habit but has the same gorgeous blue flower.. I bought my first packet at Hewitt's (they sell Thompson & Morgan) about 4 years ago, but could not find any this week, and I had to use some I had from 2 years ago. They germinate and bloom very quickly, so you have time to order them. Their peak blooming time is June. I could not keep them going after the summer humidity hit.

Well.. good luck with your wildflowers,
Keep us posted
Anne-Marie

Susan
There are quite a few salvias that are native to the southwest and Mexico. Yes, here they are annuals but they are definitely worth trying. I overwintered 10 inside this winter and have one ready to start blooming. It should just about be ready when my hummers return. Salvia coccineas will reseed in the garden and my Guaranitica provides me with enough seed to grow additional plants each year. The one that is about to bloom is one that I grew from seed last year and spent the winter in the kitchen.

These aren't the best pictures but it gives you an idea

Salvia Guaranitica Black & Blue first blooms 2004
{{gwi:1323458}}
Agastache Auranitiaca 'Apricot Sprite' mid summer 2004 the shorter version of Apricot Sunrise
{{gwi:1323459}}

A good place to get plants for the southwest is: High Country Gardens
Plants of the Southwest

Also Gazanias which are native to Africa have naturalized in the southwest. They can also be grown as annuals here.
Penny

Thanks! Great info.

Please tell me how you overwinter salvias. What conditions?
Penny, that Apricot sprite is a salvia, right? (You said agastache.) It's darling.

I'm trying gazanias again this year..never had luck with them, but that was years ago.

You should see the people on the Arizona forum discussing how to grow foxgloves in pots to take in for the hot summer. Here we're doing just the opposite with their plants. We'll try anything for flowers, won't we? LOL.

Susan the Apricot Sprite is an agastache. Agastaches are also in the same family as salvias. The Apricot Sprite has anice clean citrusy scent to the leaves and it only gets about 18 inches tall. My other agastaches get about 2-3 ft. tall.

For the salovias that I overwintered, I brought them into my unheated mud room when the temps went down in the 50's. THey stayed in there until the temps went down into the 20's (in the 30's in the mudroom) at which time I brought them in the house. This eliminated any chances of bringing unwanted pests in with the plants. I kept them just slightly on the dry side of moist. I only water them when they looked like they needed a drink. I watered them with snow or even melted snow that I collected in a bucket. I have two in a south facing window and the rest in front of my french doors that faces west. I have just started doing some deep watering since they have started actively growing again. During the winter they will almost go dormant inside. You can also let them go dormant in a basement or garage that stays above freezing. I don't have a basement and our garage is detached from the house so I am not sure it would provide enough protection over the winter although. I have put the plants on my south facing porch on sunny days when the temps on the porch measure at least 30 degrees and they have been fine. They are out there right now as a matter of fact and will stay there until about 4:00 this afternoon.

Penny

Susan,
We always seem to want to grow what everyone else in other parts of the country/world is growing (the grass is always greener syndrome). After living in Guam for 3 years with tropical plants, I just had to have lots of tropical plants. I did grow quite a few and they aren't always as tender as we think. For instance, a lot of salvias can take temps down to 20 degrees or below without damage. Some agastaches are actually hardy here. THe Apricot Sprite is listed as hardy to zone 8 but it is still alive in my bed on the west side of the house. I did 2 in pots and two inground just in case the ones in the ground didn't make it. So Except for the most tender plants I would try just about anything if I wanted it bad enough. So just because it is listed as a desert or southwestern plant give it a try...nothing ventured nothing gained.

Penny

Susan, Penny, there are some salvias that are hardy down to Z5, ex.: s. pratensis, s. nemerosa, s. sclarea. I don't know how these would jibe with your vision of a Southwestern (high?) desert garden.

Last year Loomis Creek outside of Hudson had about 30 billion different tender salvias. I was told they aren't going to propagate that kind of variety for this year, but are going to try to find the best of different colors, etc. I picked up a S. interrupta "Waverly' which is currently blooming in my dining room as a practice salvia. Since it and the S. greigii 'Desert Rose' in the basement have both done fine so far, I'm not scared to try more. The next test will be how well they do during the summer in the outer world. I've had trouble with some tender plants because they just can't adjust to our basic lack of heat. I've had Texans laughing so hard they cried about my attempts to grow ginger. There exist plants that want nighttime temperatures not too far from our daytime ones. Even in black pots in full sun they are not overly happy. We won't even talk about their opinion of our rainfall. Hopefully, these salvias won't fall into that category.

Tom,
Yes you are right about some dalvias being hardy to zone 5. I tend to forget about them since I go more for the ones that attract hummers and those are mostly the tender larger flowering salvias. I did have a Numerosa for a couple of years that would look good in a southwestern type landscape. Mine was on a rocky corner but I eventually replaced it with a hummer friendly agastache.

Mad
Your Waverly and greggi should do fine in the summer up here. I have 2 greggis and a microphylla right now that I grew from seed last summer They have both been overwintered inside since I didn't wintersow the seeds. The microphylla has yet to stop growing. The greggis did go dormant but I think are starting to come back. If they set seed this summer I plan on wintersowing it to try and get hardier plants. THis has workded with some of my plants in particular the agastache. A friend on the hummingbird forum who lives in PA. has the Waverly and it does very well for her in the summers. She lets her tenders die off at the end of the season and then replaces them in the spring. I can't seem to do that. I have to bring mine inside

Penny

I am so grateful for all the info here. I wish I could sit with you all in person.

I went to the Plants of the Southwest site and ordered a packet of mixed low desert annuals ( high desert didn't have what I wanted), plus seeds of parry's penstemon, agastache cana (looks small like the apricot above, plus it's hardy to z3), mexican gold poppies, and phacelia c. This will be my challenge for the year...they're all plants I saw in Arizona ('cept the hyssop).

Mad, I'll visit the Loomis Creek place this spring...tie it in with a visit to Fabrications fabric shop. It's nice to hear of new nurseries.

I received salvia carradonna last year from Bluestone, but it turned out to be a rangy looking weed with poor flowers, not like the pic in the catalog (tall, maroon stems). Any of you try that one? They're sending me a new batch.

Again, thank you to everyone.

Susan
Agastache Canna the species gets pretty tall 24-36 inches. It is drought tolerant to zone 3 but hardy to zone 5 so you should still be good to go with it in zone 5. Some of the hybrids of A. Cana are not as hardy. It is native to west Texas and New Mexico.

Here is another site that has wildflowers of Tuscon: Frirefly Forest I don't think they sell plants or seeds but it gives you pictures and info on each plant. THen you can check for hardiness.

Penny

This thread has turned into a wonderful discussion! Thanks. Thanks for the Tucson wildflowers site, Penny. Of all the places you have lived in, do you have a favorite? I bet it is going to be a warm place..
Anne-Marie

Anne Marie
Of course it is a warm place...is there anyplace else to live LOL! I think my favorite place would have to be Arizona. I love the heat and lack of humidity as I can work outside longer than I can when the humidity is really high and the temps are up there too. I love all the things that you can grow in the south but I am not crazy about fire ants, poisonous snakes and such. I love Phoenix. I would go back there to live in a ny minute.

Penny

Yeah I was dumb enought to buy salvia caradonna from Adams in Newburgh a year or two ago. I thought it would fluorish in my garden, but it was a fizzle. Survived, but wimpy.

Salvia mavens, how do you sow the seeds? Do they need light or do you cover them? The info I have is conflicting.

Susan,
most all the salvias I am aware of need light in order to germinate. I completely moisten the soil and surface sow the seeds and then mist them to settle them in. No covering of soil onneeded.

Penny

Susan Ny has it's own native desert plant.Cactus!!. It's found around the Albany area, I believe I read some years ago they were prickly pear or related to them. It seems there were others but they don't come to mind.I'll have to do some googling and read up.

It's so nice to see this thread resurrected. I forgot about it! Now I can talk about my results with my desert trials. Agastache sprite (thanks, Penny!) and cana have come back each year. They smell like root bear. I put one on my deck table for the hummingbirds and take it indoors every winter.

I have many penstemons that thrive here, one is Red Rocks from Bluestone Perennials. The others came from a penstemon seed mix... I just love the colors! Not all of them survived, but the ones that did, are gorgeous.

Mexican goldpoppies (from a southwest seed supplier) fill my garden and also any sunny, gravelly area. They bloom from June through many frosts. They seem to love cool weather (since they bloom in February in Arizona...70 degrees and sunny). They are the cheeriest flowers, glowing gold in the sun. Their petals feel incredibly soft and velvety.

The opuntias died a horribly ugly frozen death.

We're returning to Tucson area this winter. I'm checking on and hoping for rainfall because that's what brings the annual poppies and desert bloom. The year after record rains brought carpets of flowers to Death Valley in '05, was a drought year. We were disappointed, but the green desert plants and shrubs looked great, even without the flowers. And anything is better than a foot of snow covered with 6 inches of ice pellets! lol. I hate winter more each year. lol.