The following was stated: "Are you just simply going to ignore it because I'm not going to go search around Google for links? You couldn't even "keep up" in that thread (because it's out of your realm of study/knowledge), yet you chose to dismiss all of it because I didn't hunt down some Google links for you." H.Kuska comment. Yes, without scientific documentation, it is merely your opinion. Please note how the Podevin and du Jardin, 2012 paper was commented on in this very recent review reported in Google Scholar: PDF][PDF] SCOPING REPORT C Marris, C Jefferson - 2013 - kclpure.kcl.ac.uk 169 days ago - ... Document Version Preprint ��" the version submitted for publication Link to publication record in King's Research Portal Citation for published version (APA): Marris, C., & Jefferson, C. (2013). ... This report should be cited as: Marris, C. and Jefferson, C. (2013). ... "One reason for the scepticism displayed by some actors in response to such declarations is that at the time when genetic engineering first merged, strong claims were also made by proponents of the field about the precision of the new techniques. Thus, molecular biologists in the 1980s emphasised the lack of sophistication of previous techniques to emphasise the enhanced predictability of the then new recombinant DNA (rDNA) techniques, as exemplified in the seminal OECD report of 1986 (OECD, 1986)11:" H.Kuska comment, the following is a quote from the 1986 report. "While rDNA techniques may result in the production of organisms expressing a combination of traits that are not observed in nature, genetic changes from rDNA techniques will often have inherently greater predictability compared to traditional techniques, because of the greater precision that the rDNA technique affords to particular modifications. […] It is acknowledged that additional research and experience with rDNA micro-organisms, plants, and animals, should certainly increase our ability and precision to predict the outcome of introductions of rDNA organisms into the many varied ecosystems." (H.Kuska comment, end of 1986 quote, now back to recent review quote.) "Despite these claims of greater predictability and precision, studies have now found that unintended additional fragments of DNA are often present (Rang et al., 2005; Windels et al., 2001), and that unintended re-arrangements of sections of the host genome flanking the genetic insert were present in GM crops that have been placed on the market (Hernández et al., 2003; Windels et al., 2001). Also, a recent study by scientists from the European Food Safety Authority demonstrated that some long versions of the cauliflower mosaic virus 35S promoter, very commonly used in genetic constructs and present in a number of GM crops on the market, unexpectedly contain an overlapping viral open reading frame which, when expressed, might result in unintended phenotypic changes (Podevin and du Jardin, 2012). This demonstrates that even seemingly well-characterised and routinely used noncoding regulatory DNA sequences can produce unpredicted, unintended effects, yet such sequences are commonly assumed to present little risk when assessed within the EU regulatory framework, and “intergeneric microorganisms resulting only from the addition of well-characterized, non-coding regulatory regions” are excluded from the US Biotechnology Coordinated Framework. Opinions among scientists and other stakeholders are sharply divided about whether any future forms of genetic engineering, including synthetic biology, could ever result in the creation of organisms with reliably predictable behaviours, especially when released into complex, diverse and variable natural ecosystems; and this is directly related to divergent evaluations of the prospects for GMMO products that would need to be released into the environment in order to perform their intended function" H.Kuska comment. Please notice the use of the word "opinions" in the following: "Opinions among scientists and other stakeholders are sharply divided........" i.e. it is my "opinion" that the public is being used as beta testers. ------------------------------------------ Here is a link that might be useful: link to above review

Let me first clarify my interest in this subject. I don't give 1 crap about rhodies. I do have some nice azaleas which have been blooming for almost two months this fall. However, my main concern is the oak-hickory forest that is the major forest type in my region and specifically on my land. Although I love collecting and growing plants, I will do whatever I consciously can to minimize any possible threat my collecting could have on the native plant community around me. I work in the dental field and one interesting statistic is the fact if you have a percutaneous exposure with a patient's HIV infected blood, the rate of subsequent infection is 0.3-0.5% in a dental setting. Knowing the odds are incredibly low, any particular person that became exposed would still be on pins and needles until they received their test results. It is pretty damn human to worry about such things that are an imminent threat to health.*pathogens/pests in the forest* It's also pretty damn human to ignore any threat perceived to be highly unlikely if it hasn't directly impacted self- fatal car crash on the way to work or some microscopic soil pathogen is actually capable of killing a vast swath of our forests when it is far away. *SOD threat minimizers* I don't take the 'holier/smarter than thou' approach you have taken, Aka. I don't think those that think differently than me on the subject are irresponsible lazy asses, they just have different convictions than I do about it. I also certainly don't consider myself Howard Hughes crazy. I don't appreciate the condescending tone in your analogy, either. Personally, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if we in the east with our wetter climate have native soil microbes that keep this particular strain of phytophthora in check. Our native eastern trees may also be somewhat more able to deal with the pathogen due to surviving in conditions more similar to the pathogens native region. The east coast is much more like the Philippines when it comes to climate precip wise than the west coast not that either is an exact match.

I work in pricing at a Supermarket. The lowest margins are actually on soda and we have it displayed everywhere and wonder why. The reason is the soda distributors take the store managers on golf trips. Plus the soda vendors stock their own product. I can check cost on anything in the store and for produce that helps me decide if it is worth selling wholesale to the store. Anyway, loved the link Mick. Sometimes I sell wholesale and get obviously less than at the market but the market takes a whole day of marketing and you still bring some home. Our squash and pumpkin vendor at our store grew nice local squash and washed them and brought them in to the store with his own two hands. Obviously for not much profit because the young man now works for winter helping in our produce dept!

I meant to reply sooner, but have been away. Pawneepapa, you made it it a success! We just helped a little. I was wowed by the variety I received in the pack. I can't wait to get planting. This certainly helped stave off the winter doldrums. It's good to know the extras will be used and are appreciated. Thanks to all for making my first seed swap experience wonderful. I'll be participating again! Barb