Can't help you with the Spray n Grow questions. I have never used it and seldom see it discussed here so about all I can suggest is that you follow the manufacturers application directions. I think they have a website that might be able to answer your questions on it. Or try searching it on the forums here and contact one of the others who have posted about using it.

- super prepped my soil in the ground (lots of compost and peat moss)
- built earthtainers for a lucky few (will put the seeds im growing now into those containers, with a mixure of potting soil and compost)
- have one of my tomato plants in containers wrapped in mini greenhouse of plastic etc.

Keep in mind that peat has little nutrient value so don't count on it to feed and that it can also repel water to you'll need to monitor moisture levels closely.

Check out the recommended soil mix for use in Earthtainers - dolomite lime is one and Miracle Grow Moisture Retention formula is another plus a band of fertilizers to feed throughout the season is usually incorporated.

Can I ask why 1 plant is enclosed in plastic? Can it get adequate air circulation around the plant? If not, the mold and fungus disease become a real threat.

Fava's like all legumes don't require or tolerate much nitrogen. Use of fertilizers on them usually gets big lush plants but few beans so I'd go easy on feeding them. If they are blooming then you can try brushing the plants lightly to encourage the self-pollination or move them if possible to where they will get a good breeze. High humidity tends to make the pollen sticky so self-pollination is difficult for them.

On the berries, I'd wait but see what the users of Spray and Grow recommend.

Good luck. Hope this helps some.

Dave

PS: link below is to a couple of discussions on Spray n' Grow that a search found

Here is a link that might be useful: Spray n' Grow discussions

Hi Dave
thanks for your input.
I did read a bunch of the posts about s-n-g but most of them just talked highly about it, no real details. Their website just talks about amounts, and how often, but not when to start it, or when not to use it. I'm not expecting miracles, but I tend to be an optimist. Maybe too much so.
I was hoping someone who used it might comment on how often, and when they use it.

Let me ask you a couple things.

For the earthtainer, what does the lime do? I have been reading the threads that talk about adding it, but not sure what it does. Also, i have spent already too many $$, so I was hoping that my homemade, lively-with-worms compost, would do a lot to help.

About the plant with plastic, it is not touching the plant, and it only wraps the sides, so air is getting in, but I was hoping it would serve as a cold frame greenhouse kind of thing. Why is this more detrimental than those?

My favas are gorgeous, just seem to be taking a little longer to pod than usual. Seen a lot of bees on them, so not sure it is a pollination issue. Maybe I am just being impatient. Is it possible to be too warm for favas?

Also, my plan is to put some toms where the favas were once they are harvested. No toms have grown there before. Do you think the soil will be too nitrogen rich from the favas for the toms?

While we are on the subject of toms, here is what I am doing, if you have any thoughts or ....
- stupice (has performed for me before, better than others)
- Glacier
- Serbian
- Druzba
- jetsetter
- sungold
- black prince

- and seeds of the ones listed in my initial post

Oh, the berries. I went a little nuts and they were cheap and selling by the pound, so I ended up with over 100 strawberry plants. The bare roots have ALL survived. I thought some would just not live through, but all have green leaves and are growing nicely. in the ground and in pots. wow. A couple of the bareroot raspberries have growth as well. It has only been three weeks. Can you tell how excited I am by boring ya'll with these facts?

I'm in the San Mateo hills with the same damn fog as you - Chianti rose, Black Prince and Sungold have all done well for me in the past and I wouldn't have a tomato garden without them. I'm trying Paul Robeson this year as well.

This west coast fog thing has to be a joke! Seriously, you can grow anything if you are west of the coastal range and below 5,000 feet.

I dream of the days when we could till up a few acres in the Rogue Valley and everything we planted grew perfectly. The same is almost true of the extreme north coast, except for the constant wind... (and the noisy surf at night.)

How can you possibly have problems growing things in paradise? Sorry, if this offends, but where the hell are you guys planting? In the shadow of a nuclear reactor?

I purchased the S-n-G perfect blend kit last year and made foliar applications to my tomato plants weekly to every other week. Unless you do a blind study where you apply it to a certain group of plants and not to another group and compare the results it's hard to see the difference, especially if you are using other amendments along with it. Would I recommend S-N-G, yes, but only for foliar applications to tomatoes as I havn't tried the product on any other type of crops. Ami

For the earthtainer, what does the lime do? I have been reading the threads that talk about adding it, but not sure what it does.

Can't answer that for sure as I haven't ever used it or Earthtainers but those who do swear by it. It supposedly reduces the problems of BER and off-sets the natural acidity of the contained soil that builds up over time.

About the plant with plastic, it is not touching the plant, and it only wraps the sides, so air is getting in, but I was hoping it would serve as a cold frame greenhouse kind of thing. Why is this more detrimental than those?

Why is it needed? What are the temps? Freezing nights or something? Top open only allows for heat escape. It is cross circulation of air through the plant, easily available in the GH, that is important. If it is needed for temp protection at night then be sure to open it up during the day.

My favas are gorgeous, just seem to be taking a little longer to pod than usual. Seen a lot of bees on them, so not sure it is a pollination issue. Maybe I am just being impatient. Is it possible to be too warm for favas?

Beans are self-pollinating and "gorgeous" plants hints at too much nitrogen which means less beans. And yes, it is possible for it to be too warm for favas. But if the tomato plant still needs to be wrapped in plastic because of the temps then it can't be too warm for favas.

Dave

the_sun: Hey, don't knock the fog until you've lived here and tried to grow tomatoes. The issue is the nightime temp. I'm routinely 50 degrees Farenheit at night throughout the summer and we all know what happens to the pollen under those conditions.

As Mark Twain said: "the coldest winter I ever spent was a summer in San Francisco"

I was born and raised 3 miles from the northern Oregon coast, so I'm familiar with gardening in a marine climate.

Up here in the tundra, we regularly get nighttime lows in the 40s and 50s in July and August, yet we still have good fruit set and yields. The reason? Warm daytime temps.

Figure out a way to get the air around the plants up into the 80s during the day, and you'll do well.

Also, I apologize for coming across abrupt and opinionated. There is massive, wide-scale flooding all across the Dakotas due to record snows... And a blizzard brewing with up to two feed additional snow.

hi all,
thanks for taking the time to respond.

tomatojoa - I learned about the ChiantiRose from you on my other thread, and I am excited to try it this year. I'm hopeful. thanks for the tip. I will definitely report back on any other successes so that you can add to your crop if they do well.

the_sun, I was going to write the same thing as tomatojoa, but they got to you first. From your response though, it seems like you know where we are coming from. The Bay Area is a funky beast for gardening. I swear I can walk a few blocks and the temps are different. We have so many microclimates here, and unfortunately, i am in one of the foggier areas.

You mentioned keeping the area around the plant warm. Would my makeshift greenhouse tube do that? I put my hand in the plastic area yesterday and it was definitely warmer than the air outside of it. But the advice above scared me that the plant wasn't getting enough oxygen circling it. If i drilled a couple holes in it, would the air inside still be warm AND have air flow, or would it just cool the whole thing down.

What do you do to keep them warmer during the day?

I didn't get a lot of spray and grow feedback.
I guess I will spray one plant and see what happens.
How often do other fertilize their plants once in the ground? Do you wait to fert after planting seedlings? how long?

Oh, i have a couple earthtainers too. Can I fertilize those by adding some fish emulsion to the water that I put at the bottom?

thanks
Dana

Yes, the fog can be a problem in SF.
Here is one of our tugs in the fog. I believe I took this around noon :)

Having used Spray and Grow for around 20 years, I can safely call myself and expert. :)
I believe the company says you can begin using it when plants have 2 sets of "true leaves", i.e., not cotyledons. I begin using it in the seedling flats. I also mix into it SNG's foliar feed, Bill's Perfect Fertilizer, so even though the little plants don't have much root support, they can still absorb through their leaves.
Although I haven't done "blind tests" per se, I have had occasions when I don't get around to my SNG routine, and I can absolutely tell the difference in all my plants, flowers, fruit trees, tomatoes. I usually stop spraying the zucchini after the first spray or two, because we all know what it's like to have too much zucchini. :)
As for the incredulity about fog impacting growing in San Francisco, it's my understanding that one of the best businesses to have there are touristy sweatshirt shops, because in the summer all the tourists come from the 105 degree valleys dressed in shorts and tank tops, only to find it 55 degrees and foggy at the Golden Gate Bridge. The valley heat sucks the fog in from the ocean in summer.

Carla in Sac

Hi again,
thanks Carla, for the specific tips. I would say 20 years definitely warrants an "expert" title.

Since you are, a couple more questions if you don't mind:
- Seems like I can spray now. The instructions say to spray every 7-30 days. How often do you do it?
- I wondered about spraying the leaves, as I try so hard to keep my leaves dry and disease free. Is there a specific time of day that you would recommend spraying?
- Is there anything you would not spray?
- Can you use it in combination with other fertilizers (not Bills Perfect) or is that somehow dangerous?

thanks! thanks! thanks!

Hi again:

I try and spray every week or two, until early fall, when I want everything to get ready to go to sleep for the winter. You're supposed to spray early in the morning or in the evening, because the leaf pores are open then, and they absorb more. You in SF should probably stick to the mornings, and I would wait for days when there is no fog forecast. I would not spray anything I wouldn't want growing a lot, such as lawns growing in summer or weeds. And I think other foliar fertilizers would be fine--just be sure you don't add it or the Bill's to the mix until after the SNG has "cooked" for 15-20 minutes, right before you spray. SNG is not a fertilizer, it's a micronutrient "stimulator", so you definitely still need the fertilizer.

Carla in Sac

Oh, i have a couple earthtainers too. Can I fertilize those by adding some fish emulsion to the water that I put at the bottom?

Mix 1 gallon of fish fert at normal label rates. Let sit overnight.

This will tell you if you want it in your reservoir.

Organic ferts aren't water soluble, they merely suspend in the water. Fine for ground gardens, but when it is added to the reservoir only stuff that is soluble in water wicks up with the water. Stuff merely suspended will stay in the reservoir.

hello again
thanks for the response Carla, that is really helpful.

Justaguy2, do you have earthboxes and what do you use to fert?

or is this a different thread

debeig: Please do let me know how the Chianti Rose turns out! And if the Spray & Grow works for you, please report that too!

the_sun: OK - the other catch is we don't get 80 degree temps during the day. I would love to have 80 degree air circulating around my plants. Year before last, I hit 80 exactly twice (as in 2 days during the entire summer). I grew up in the Northern midwest and am amazed at the difference (and difficulty!) in gardening here.

JoAnne

dgbeig,

I have a variety of SWC for various things. I use DynaGrow Foliage Pro 9-3-6 and DynaGrow Protekt 0-0-3 in the reservoir.

The Foliage Pro is used on everything as it is a complete fertilizer with all major, secondary and minor nutrients. The ProTekt is 0-0-3 which is used to boost the potassium levels relative to Nitrogen for plants that don't prefer higher N. In other words by combining the 2 in water I end up with a 9-3-9 fert instead of 9-3-6.

Both are 100% soluble which makes them ideal for the reservoir (they are also used in hydroponic set ups which is why they contain all nutrients and are all soluble)

ok, i am on my way.

thanks justaguy2 for the recs on the water soluble fertilizer.
Would you use those over something like tomato tone or do you use both?

never hear back form the_sun or anyone else about keeping my little plastic greenhouse around the toms, or if I needed to drill holes for air, or if it was all silly and I should just remove it altogether!

Would you use those over something like tomato tone or do you use both?

I use water soluble fertilizers exclusively in containers. I would not use tomato tone in containers, but if my soil needed the nutrients would use it in the ground. Likewise I generally don't use water soluble nutrients in the ground.

The difference is the soil, enriched with organic matter over the years, has a healthy supply of active organisms that will make nutrients from organic matter available to the plants.

In containers organic matter often doesn't work well or clogs up aeration etc. There I prefer water soluble nutrients that are available for plant uptake with no biological processing required.

never hear back form the_sun or anyone else about keeping my little plastic greenhouse around the toms, or if I needed to drill holes for air, or if it was all silly and I should just remove it altogether!

Wellll, actually you did. ;)

Humidity causes fungus and mold diseases on the plants to develop and to thrive. Trapped humidity inside a plastic enclosure only makes the problem worse. In high humid climates adequate air circulation in among the stems and leaves of the plant is vital to preventing those diseases.

If the air temps are in the low 40's at night then you can protect the plant. But that plastic needs to be removed in the daytime. As already mentioned by others, many successfully grow tomatoes in cooler areas than yours. 80 degree days are not required for your tomatoes to set fruit but that fruit will never ripen if the plant is overcome by fungal disease because of poor air circulation.

And if you are using Earthboxes or a similar set up then a visit to their website and a review of their instructions on fertilizers etc. will answer your questions.

Dave

PS: and Carla's point that Spray n' Grow is not a fertilizer is a very important one.

ok, you got me.
so here I go....
I am going to remove my little plastic tube. I will take a pic of it before I do, just to give you an idea, etc.
If ya'll see it and think that it may do some good with holes drilled or something, let me know.

I really did work hard on other aspects for the tomatoes, so hopefully it will pay off, and if not, well, that is nothing new.

As for the earthtainers, I did see some recs for fertilizer on one of raybo's pages, but i remember them being the "dig-in" kind like the tomato tone, so I wanted another opinion.

My local nursery didn't have the Dynagrow, so I guess I will have to keep looking. Any other recs for liquid fertilizers?

What do you use Dave?
I thought I saw in another thread, you mention that you don't use the earthboxes yourself. Are all your toms in the ground?

At this point, I will dig my fert that is like the tomato tone into my toms that are already planted in the ground. did more of it into the ground that my seedlings will go into when ready. And as for my containers (four regular, three earth) I will hold off and wait to find liquid fert.

I will spray and grow a few of the tom plants that are already in ground and a few that are in containers and see if there is a difference.
I will spray and grow some of the favas and see if the pod more quickly or make bigger pods, although they get pretty huge already.

I will report back

As for the earthtainers, I did see some recs for fertilizer on one of raybo's pages, but i remember them being the "dig-in" kind like the tomato tone, so I wanted another opinion.

My local nursery didn't have the Dynagrow, so I guess I will have to keep looking. Any other recs for liquid fertilizers?

When you fertilize plants in a SWC there are 2 general ways to go about it.

One way would be the 'Earthbox' way. I call it the Earthbox way because they are the ones who came up with and tested the idea. You would use a granular fertilizer (not water soluble) just under the surface of the mix. Typically you would then also use a plastic cover over the top. This cover limits the top layer (where the fertilizer is) from drying out due to evaporation and also protects the fertilizer from getting rained on where it could release too fast for the plants. The idea is this fertilizer will release it's nutrients gradually over the season providing a fairly consistent level of nutrients in the mix.

The other way is to add a water soluble fertilizer to the reservoir. This method requires repeated applications instead of a one time thing before each season. It also offers more control over what the plants are getting. It can thus be adjusted for lower nutrient dilutions early in the season when growth is slower and more concentrated dilutions when the plant's growth speeds up.

Both ways work, it's individual preference really.

You can use any water soluble fert instead of DynaGrow in the reservoir, BUT I prefer the DynaGrow to all others because it includes all plant nutrients and very few others do. They are also all water soluble. Miracle Grow can be used, but it doesn't supply Calcium. If you follow recommended liming rates for SWC this will provide it. You may wish for a fert that includes calcium though especially for tomatos, peppers and other plants whose fruit often suffers from calcium or calcium uptake problems.

If you go the 'Earthbox' way you generally do not want to add anything to the reservoir unless your eyes tell you your plants aren't getting their nutritional needs met. You risk giving too much fertilizer which actually induces nutrient problems. So, please pick the method you wish and just use one (per container).

Hope this helps clarify a bit.

I do use 6 Earthboxes as well as in-ground plus some other SWC. With the earthboxes I have always followed the manufacturers recommendation of a band of granular fertilizer placed in the box. They didn't used to recommend dolomite lime in addition to the fertilizer - now they do and Raybo has reported excellent results with it so I plan to add it this year too.

From Earthbox website:

The EarthBox® is designed to be used with a strip of common dry granular fertilizer or plant food for
vegetables. Almost any brand of fertilizer will work as long as it is not designed to be mixed with water and all 3 numbers on the label are between 5 and 15. YouÂll need two cups of fertilizer for each planting. Organic fertilizers can also be used. Simply use 3 cups of organic fertilizer to replace the 2 cups of chemical fertilizer.

So you can use your Tomato Tone - just use 3 cups of it as they recommend or any other granular fert will work well too. They say you don't need to supplement with any liquid fertilizers during the growing season but I do. But I honestly can't recommend using nothing but liquid fertilizers with them. Just too easy to over or under do, to get busy and forget. JMO

Dave

Hey Dana, This is Jerry in OLIVE Branch,BRANCH, Ms. I planted my tomatoes this year in my (2) 3 ft. X 12 FT boxes that 've used over 10 years when I moved from the country. I raise better boys & big beef that is the large variety of better boys! I planted them on 15 of April and used "miracle grow shake & feed " (1 tablespoon around each plant and water about 3 days a week.)

I prepare my beds by putting a half a 50 bag in each box in fall and let it set all winter. Before I plant a few days, I put 2 bags of chicken manure and 3 big bags of

MIRACLE GROW garden soil for above ground beds. After you plant them , you can put your wire cages over them. Start pulling suckered off as they grow if you want bigger tomatoes. Pull suckered for the life of the plant. I put another 1 tablespoon of "Shake & Feed ." Around each plant every 30 days. When they bloom or have aphids, spray them ASAP. I SPRAY 15 day entervals after they get on up and have green ones hanging all over them.

Enjoy your crop!!! Thanks,

Spray and Grow is not a fertilizer, like Miracle Grow is.

It is a growth accelerator that is applied with foliar spraying.

Carla in Sac