Thanks Ohiojay, didn't even remember about the yahoo group its been so long.

im not even sure what Garcinia i have now. its pretty cold hardy though

Wow , that was a great looking mangosteen Ronald.

Don't remind me :)

That breaks my heart Ronald. MangoK...sort of looks like the Edulis...which is also referred to as Intermedia(lemon drop mangosteen). But he!!, it could be darn near anything. When you get a few more leaves on the plant, take some good pics and shoot them to Bryan...he may be able to take a shot at the ID.

The best bet would be to wait till crap starts fruiting and if they are any good, just start naming them garcinia good fruit 1, 2, 3,...

My buddy names one of his garcinia mysteriosis!

Jay,
Interesting info Jay.
I am going to have to disagree with Oscar regarding most Garcinias being monoecious. Everything I have read regarding the matter states otherwise. Check out the Encyclopedia of Fruit and Nuts by Janick it says the same thing. Maybe he has some new research that states otherwise. I know some of the new world garcinias are not dioecious but most of the old world ones are. That might be what hes referring to.

jay i think you are right. i got it from Sadhu as lemon drop mangosteen/achachairu

is it dioceous?

If it is the intermedia/edulis, I believe it to monoecious...but then again...I'm wrong a lot! I believe the cherry/lemon drop mangosteen to all be the intermedia/edulis. I tried the fruit at Excalibur, Fruit & Spice Park, and in PR. I like it. A smaller seed to flesh ratio would be nice though.

Sadhu's G. laterifolia looks like Bryan's G. brasiliensis and we now know that it is NOT brasiliensis. This is what Bryan is now calling G. spp for lack of any proper id. They are all just as frustrated with this as we are. I think we tried this at Felipe's in PR last year and it was really good. Big seed though. I've found that the seed/fruit ratio is an issue with many of these obscure garcinias. Whitman's famous cherichuela...I forget the botanical name, was one of the best garcinias I've ever eaten...very close second to mangosteen. The problem was the huge seed. It's almost like it's teasing you with so little flesh.

Sadhu has a lot of garcinia/rheedia's on his site. A shame that he doesn't allow a sort by botanical name to keep them all together for better comparison. From what I've been able to sample and from hearing feedback from others, all of the varieties should be a very good fruit... except for the Garcinia xantochymus.

One of the reasons I emailed Bryan was to ask him about Sadhu's two types of madrunos. I bought two from Bryan several years ago and Sadhu's site confused me. Just another example of possibly the same fruit being labeled as something different in a different part of the world...heck...even a different part of the same country!

If you hit Fairchild's in early summer, I'm sure you could try some Imbe's(livinstonei). They have an enormous tree/bush sprawling near the front when you go in to board the buses. Seems like it almost fruits itself to death.

Ronald...if your tree is truly the achachairu, then if what Oscar says it true, you should see both types of flowers, not just males. So keep your eyes peeled.

Here...allow me to muddy the waters even further! This is an email from Felipe Osborne in PR. He has Machabuca home and plantation. We visited him last year. Great great guy. Over 80 and was scrambling around that heat and terrain like he was 30. Anyway...this was back in Feb of 2008.

"Jay, Cornucopia II tells me that Rheedia madruno is now R. acuminata. (Read Garcinia instead of Rheedia.) All my garcinias were grown from seed. I will guess that my G. acuminata took six years to fruit (but I tend to neglect my trees until they fruit). There is too much confusion about the names of Garcinias. What I call G. acuminata Lorenzi in BRAZILIAN FRUITS calls G. madruno. Then there is the elongated garcinia that appears to be a variety of my G. acuminata that has several names. I think it is very rare that you can distinguish male trees from female trees until they flower. With two seedlings you have a 50% chance of having a boy and a girl. I am surprised that you have two seedlings from Bryan. I gave him two or three fruits about two years ago (I'll guess six seeds). I always tell people to plant four dioecious seeds to have seven in eight chances of success. If you want more garcinias you should contact Jim West of Reserva Río Guaycuyacu. In Ecuador, all garcinias are called madroño and in Bolivia they are called achachairú. Let me recommend Garcinia laterifolia which Bryan calls G. brasiliensis which it is not! But it is a very good fruit. -- Felipe "

This next one is pretty funny and shows you even the best can get burned!!!

"Jay, At this time I have six fruiting G. laterifolia on my farm and 36 seedlings. But I wanted a G. brasiliensis. So, I paid $90.65 to "TT"(you know who I'm referring to) for one. Then, Oscar (Fruitlovers) tells me that "TT" gets their seeds from Puerto Rico. If so, I have paid $90.65 for a seedling I can buy locally for six bucks. (I wrote to "TT" asking about this but got no answer. Bryan, Sadhu, and Sherry all sold G. laterifolia as G. brasiliensis). -- Felipe Note: I take my hat off to a garcinia fan in Ohio. That defines masochist."

Felipe soon after sent me some seeds of G. magnifolia. All three germinated and grew to about 6 inches where they stalled. Never put out any more new growth and I just recently dumped all three. They apparently did not approve of something I was doing. Another variety bites the dust.

Thanks Jay, Like most people the most I can say is that I had gotten it as laterifolia, but will happily cling to any hope offered. I think I had come accross a picture of the female flower once, does anyone have a picture of it as I seemed to have misplaced mine?
Also would it be possible for it to have been flowering for so long (3 years) with no female flowers if it is the right plant?

jay;

Whitmans cherichuela sounds interesting, does anyone have any more info on it?

Ronald...they were still at the achachairu debate on the yahoo group. I think Oscar later posted some pics of the basiliensis flowers. You might compare.

MangoK... I think even Whitman has it listed in his book as Garcinia spp...which I now firmly believe means "who the he!! knows!" You could google "cherichuela" but again...there will be more than one listed under this name.

Here are a few of my garcinias. I have been following this discussion from the very beginning. Some people liked the suggested name Bolivian Mangosteen, so I will use that for my Achachairu plants.

Tomas

Modrono number 1

number 2

Boson...your seedlings look remarkably like the intermedia/edulis.

Ronald...very nice! The second one actually looks more compact and dense. Your first one is more like mine... growing tall and sparse. Mine are just now showing signs of new shoots coming from the middle of the a few branches. I've also lopped off the leader hoping to force a more compact plant.

Hi ohiojay,

I got the seeds from Bryan at Montoso Gardens, so I trust that they are indeed achachairu.

Tomas

Ronald,
Is the lemondrop mangosteen as difficult to grow as the other mangosteens??
Andrew

Andrew, from my experience, I would bet probably every garcinia is easier than the Mangosteen. I have a few madrono's, and an achachairu. Both have been very easy to grow and can take much more cold than mangosteens. I actually let mine see 45 degrees before bringing them into the greenhouse. I also have a couple of the lemon drop mangosteens that I forgot about and they saw down to about 35 for a few days before I remembered to bring them in. They were sheltered under the canopy of a huge grapefruit tree but they still saw some really low temps.

Jsvand,
What is the fruit like? Can you describe it? To me it looks like a cool tree and my curiosity was spiked but the only thing I worry about is the size it has to acguire to produce fruit. I'm sure I could find the fruit online to try but if the tree needs to get large then I can't grow it. I am suffering from those damn winter blues here. It has me thinking of what I could succesfully grow and grow well. I know I am going to get another citrus and 2 more mango but I would like to try something else. I want passionfruit and black pepper but I want another FRUIT!!
Andrew

Like a lot of these old Rheedia/garcinias...the fruit is good but they tend to have a really big seed leaving just a little flesh left over to enjoy. The more ripe the fruit, the better and more mellow it was. Those picked more yellow than orange tended to be a bit on the sour side. For me...for all of the different rheedia/garcinias that I've tried...there was no mistaking it being a mangosteen relative.

Andrew, I wish I could tell you how they tasted but my trees still have a few years before they might get fruit. I just ordered a few more Madrono's from Sadhu and he said they are one of the best. Sadhu told me yesterday that the madrono's usually start fruiting at five to six feet and around five or six years. The ones I just bought are two year old trees and the one I already have is a 3 year old tree.

Tomas,
I still have the seedlings you gave me as achachairu. I will compare them in the future with the seedlings I am trying to germinate from a fruit originated in Santa Cruz, Bolivia. That fruit is being cultivated in Recife, Brazil and is being marketed in Brazil as, Achachairu. Romero Jose de Andrade Lima is the biggest producer of Achachairu in Recife, Brazil. He calls achachairu, Garcinia Laterifolia.

Hi Berto,

Glad to hear that. Yes, it will be interesting to compare these later on. I have found that the Achachairu seem to be not affected much by anthracnose and other pests compared to all other plants I have. They are all growing perfectly healthy without any leaf damages whatsoever.

Tomas

Can you grow Achacha's in South Florida?

The "new world mangosteens" native to Central and South America were formerly classified under the genus "Rheedia " before that genus was later merged with Garcinia after the similarity between the two groups were recognized.

Yellow Mangosteen can be found in markets in Malaysia and is delicious, though there is not really much edible flesh. Both the rind and inside fruit are the same yellow color and it does not really look like mangosteen on the inside. I believe the species name is Garcinia xanthochymus. The inside appears similar to G. dulcis.

A wild mangosteen species (Garcinia forbesii) grows in Kalimantan. The rinds are used by locals in cooking to impart sourness to food dishes. The inside of the fruit is not bad, but does not taste as good as mangosteen, slightly bitter and herbal, and more sour. (It's not as flavorful or sweet as achachairu either) Garcinia forbesii does seem very similar to Garcinia indica (known as kokum in India) and I'm not sure they are a different species.

G. nigrolineata is another wild mangosteen. The edible fruit is gathered from the wild for its delicious fruits and the species is sometimes used as a rootstock for mangosteen. It is known as Kandis Jantan (big kandis) in Southern Malaysia.

Can you grow yellow mangosteens in 9B? What score would you give YM for flavor on a 1-10?

The yellow mangosteens are much easier trees to grow and bring to fruiting than the purple mangosteen. There are several species of yellow mangosteen, including the mundu (G. dulcis), the kochin goroka (G. xanthochymus) and the asam gelugur (G. atroviridis). These yellow mangosteens can also tend to be very sour.

I don't know about cold-hardiness in particular, but I would think they would be a little bit more cold hardy than purple mangosteen.

Really, the insides of these yellow mangosteens look different from purple mangosteen, and I think the Southeast Asian mangosteens can be divided into two broad families. Garcinia forbesii, on the other hand, appears very closely related to purple mangosteen in morphology, and G. malaccensis is almost identical (in fact it is suspected that purple mangosteen may have originated from G. malaccensis).

G. celebica is very similar to G. hombroniana, and could be mistaken for the same species. G. penangiana, in fact, was mistaken by a team of mangosteen experts for G. malaccensis, just goes to show how obscure some of these species can be, and how easy it is for even the experts to get confused.

Hmm, what else do I have to say... Garcinia globulosa appears similar to G. atroviridis. G. globulosa is sometimes known as Asam kandis, but "Asam kandis" appears to encompass several different species, including G. negrolineata also, so this makes things confusing. G. globulosa is not as sweet or large as G. negrolineata but they are very similar in morphology. Asam kandis (whatever species that is) is common and sometimes cultivated in Malaysia and Indonesia. It bears grapefruit-size fruits whose sweet pulp is eaten raw.

Garcinia hombroniana is known as the "seashore mangosteen" because it tends to grow near the shores and apparently has a salt tolerance. It has a bright red-orange exterior and I'd classify it in the same "family" as purple mangosteen, not the "yellow mangosteen" family.

Garcinia prainiana is the "button mangosteen", morphologically it's practically like a persimmon, the skin that needs to be peeled off is thin. Well actually once you take off the skin it almost looks like the sections inside a mandarin.

How awesome is it? Fair, Good, Very Good, Off the charts, etc. Is it a must have if you can grow it in South Florida?

Hahaha, which one?

If I can make an analogy, it's kind of like trying compare watermelon, cantaloupe, and honeydew melon. Most people will prefer one, but a few people may prefer another.

To me, purple mangosteen is a 7 (maybe a 7.5), but this is very subjective to my personal tastes. I gave some to my family to try and they just thought it was okay, not really anything special. But it is very subjective. If you're a fruit connoisseur who appreciates flavor subtleties, it is likely to rate higher. Particularly among the rare fruits, mangosteen ranks towards the top.

To me, I would rate good lychee fruit as a 10, but I've seen other people write that they like mangosteen more than lychee. Mangosteen does definitely have a unique "exquisite" flavor.

Many people describe the aroma of lychee as "floral", and mangosteen is as well, but in a different way. I think I can taste a note of wild strawberries in the flavor of mangosteen, but there's also maybe a tiny bit of putrid mango in there as well, which is probably part of the reason why I don't give it a higher score. If you like papaya and jackfruit though, this should not be an issue to you (and let me clarify, mangosteen is nothing like the "putrid" flavor of papaya and jackfruit). The main reason is I'm just not into the sharp peach and "tangy" passion fruit flavor. There's so much going on in the flavor profile of mangosteen. Yet it's a delicate flavor. I do like the cooling pear-like (maybe banana?) notes though, with very slight undertones of camphor.