I live in Orange County, CA and have clay soil, so maybe that is why, but I will never grow Brandywine again, tried it three different years and never had good results, the few tomatoes the plants did make usually rotted before they could ripen.

They sure don't grow well here. Everyone in Madison tries to grow them because they do taste good, but last year it just wasn't warm enough and mine all rotted before they got ripe. I've given up on them. Eva Purple Ball tasted just as good and I had a ton of those.

Since there are several strains of BW, has anyone grown the different strains for comparison in various parts of the country?

For instance, this year I'll be growing Brandy Boy and then Cowlick Brandywine and Earl's Faux, which may be another Brandywine strain, for production and taste comparisons. I have no idea if the Cowlick BW and Earl's Faux will thrive in this Georgia heat and clay, but if they do, or if one of them does, I'll be quite happy.

Brandywine is doable in GA. At least in NE GA for the past couple of decades.
Below pick is July 15th last year and still setting.
{{gwi:1301489}}

This plant was one of two that came up more so regular leaf. Never happened for me before.

{{gwi:1301490}}

Fruits were pretty much identical. Almost a mirror image ... RL left, PL right.

{{gwi:1301491}}

Largest of 2009, 1.76 lbs.

What are the tomato varieties that are most similar to Brandywine with other names?

helenh, Brandy Boy is close. Here is a 1 lb 5.9 ounce one from 2009.

{{gwi:1301492}}

helenh

Do you mean open-pollinated strains?

Last year I asked what tomatoes I could grow as a replacement for Brandy Boy, and Earl's Faux was one suggestion. (Cowlick's Brandywine was another.) That thread is now lost along with all the others.

Anney has a point about OP. I have heard that Stump Of The World, Earl's Faux and Marianna's Peace are close but, while BW does well for me, these have not.
I have a suspicion that Bear Claw will be close but it has been elusive to me. The seeds that I have are old and the last couple of times that I have tried, they were some of last to germinate ... = they always ended up in a sad place of the garden and I have yet to see/taste one.
I have a couple popped up now and have hope/intentions to rectify this.

Anney, yes, there are several different so called strains of Brandywine but they aren't really strains, they're listed with the name attached of the person who first listed them that way. A true strain od something is different

OK, in the 2010 SSE YEarbook we've got the following so called strains listed:

First, there's a general heading for Brandywine and who knows what specific, or not, "strains" might be included in that long list.

Big Purple, from someone who changes variety names quite frequently and this is probably Marizol Bratka, aka Purple Brandywine ( see below)

Glick's
Liams
Pawers, now this one is interesting b'c it's a typo that's lasted forever. The person listing it originally was Roger Wentling in PA and the SSE code for that person would be PA WE R, as in Pawer, get the picture. LOL

Purple, which is really Marizol Bratka, a variety bred by Joe Bratka which he first listed as Purple Brandywine, I kinda called him on that b'c he gave a history for it when there was none, and suggested that he change the name to Marizol Bratka, so that's how most folks know it; a cross between Brandywine and Marizol Purple

Sudduth

.... and there used to be many more so called strains. I'm not the only one who has grown many of them and it was found that they are almost ALL the same but you can't make conclusions on just one grow out if even differences appear.

The only one I'll grow is the Sudduth/Quisenberry one b/c the fruits are smoother and taste is just fine.

other than that I can't see any reason to grow one so called strain over another. Most of the seed places haven't the faintest idea of what strain they offer but many also do offer the Sudduth one specifically and I think that part of the reason for that has to do with Craig LeHoullier and myself adopting it and promoting it as does the SSE Public catalog as well.

Helen, similar to Brandywine, or having at least one parent that's known to be Brandywine, or at least Brandywine is part of the parentage would include:

OTV Brandywine, from a natural cross between Yellow Brandywine and ????

Marizol Bratka, deliberately bred ( Marizol Purple X Brandywine)

Dora, bred by Keith Mueller

Gary 'O Sena. ditto

Liz Birt, ditto

Black Brandywine, from a natural cross, introduced by TGS but pulled b'c it's unstable

BrandyBoy, Burpee Hybrid

Red Brandywine, family heirloom

Yellow Brandywine, family heirloom

... and there are others I haven't listed above, but those above are the main ones.

And I'm sure Hoosier might add some others. he did a cross between Brandywine X Neves Azorean Red and some good selections are coming out of that cross but I don't think any of them are stable yet but Hoosier can speak to that.

But NONE of them TASTE like Brandywine. OTV does better in the south than does Brandywine for most folks, as does Marizol Bratka, but my point is that none of them, even if they have Brandywine as one parent or it's in the heritage of some of the ones that were bred, tastes like Brandywine and there's no reason they should.

For many growers they know the name Brandywine and have seen others promote it and say it's the best tasting variety , so feel they are a failure if they can't grow it and taste it.

I see the situation differently. I agree that it has a unique taste, but there are many others that for me have a unique taste as well. One example is the variety Prue, for me. If I can ID a variety just by smell and perhaps taste Brandywine and Prue might be two good examples.

And there are other varieties than Prue that I htink have a unique taste. Sure, Brandywine tastes great for a large PL pink, but some others also taste great as well and they have tastes that a person could cinsider as being unique.

But I'm not owned by Brandywine, far from it. LOL

BTW, if anyone is interested there's an article at Victory Seeds by Craig leHoullier about various brandywines. He did the family ones and I did the non-family ones.

Carolyn

"But NONE of them TASTE like Brandywine." Thank you Carolyn. The information above is helpful to me. There are so many kinds of tomatoes I'd like to try. Knowing some are similar or the same with different names will save me time and effort. I grew a Brandywine? years ago and went back to hybrids. I thought I failed, but now I think not. The one I grew had a few huge tomatoes and some other smaller ones. It took so long to ripen that critters would get it before I did. I like a small to medium sized good tasting tomato that I can eat before the end of the summer. I have planted seeds of Sudduth and Earl's Faux just to try them. I didn't know EF was like a Brandywine so I wondered if others I have planted were also Brandywine like.

Varieties "close to" Brandywine that I have had great results from include Daniels and Earl's Faux ... both for all practical purposes the same as Brandywine in both vine and fruit characteristics.

Bear Creek, although regular leaf, is a stable cross of Brandywine x Cherokee Purple and is awesome even in adverse weather ... deep pink/purple, beautiful, tasty fruit. Big Cheef, another Brandywine Sudduth cross, stabilized now for potato leaf and maroon fruit, is an awesome producer of extra tasty Brandywine type tomatoes.

Yet ... "But NONE of them TASTE like Brandywine."
Just something about a great tasting, hang off the side of any sandwich bread you bring forth ...
I feel most sad for those that have troubles growing BW and almost regret taking it for granted ;)

{{gwi:1301493}}

We've had some success in Hemet,Ca(high desert east of LA) with Brandywine OTV. The seed was purchased from Southern Exposure a couple of years ago. The summer of 2008 we grew an acre of them and Mortgage Lifter from the same seed source. It also did well. Unfortunately, we had a 2 week stretch of 105+ degree heat in June and it wiped out many of our other varieties, along with soil pathogens. Thus ended my career as a commercial Organic Heirloom Tomato grower. Now I grow for fun and flavor. I have about 20, 3.5-4 ft plants of which the Manitoba and Branywine OTV are the earliest to set fruit. The Marianna's Peace, Church, Mortgage Lifter, Nebraska Wedding, Aunt Jenny's, Brandywine Pink and Selitz are flowering but no fruit yet. All are in a small greenhouse and hoophouse I have built. If I knew how to post pictures I would. This summer I am going to remove the film from the hoophouse and open the ends and install a 60% shade cloth. Hopefully, I can keep these plants going.

Very good discussions and info. Thanks.
I will plant some BRANDYWINE and some CHEROKEE PURPLE.
I have started some seeds in cold frame already.
I am thinking about planting in a spot where they will get some more shade in the afternoon.

Bill, who or what else is in Big Cheef besides Sudduth B? Also, I may try growing out my F4 (RL) Sudduth Brandwine/NAR seeds this year but I haven't high hopes for it. I still have some (just a few) F1 seeds you sent me 3 years ago to get me started with the growout if you need them back. Also F2's and F3's but so far they have been too disesey (like that word?) and nothing spectacular RL plants. Here's an F3 from last year:

Big Cheef is Brandywine Sudduth x Unknown RL sent to me by Ricky from Murphreesboro, Tennessee as F2 seeds. He grew the F1 in 2006. I presume it was regular leaf as that would have alerted him to the cross. I cannot remember what color he said it was, but I am presuming red and not pink because AmiDeutch got F2 seeds as well and grew a red fruited F2.

I grew 2 F2s in 2007, one regular leaf (RL) and one potato leaf (PL) and ended up pulling the RL because it was not a promising plant. The PL gave large amounts of large, deep pink-maroon, juicy, meaty fruit that was the best tomato I ever tasted. Subsequent generations have stayed PL, maroon, very productive, taste well and appear stable for all practical purposes. I now have F5 seeds offered in the SSE Yearbook. So does Suze from Texas who has grown the same line of PL, purple Big Cheef but in much more hot and arid conditions. Hers are adaptable to those conditions and mine seem adaptable to hot, humid conditions.

Do you not have Big Cheef, Jim? I'm sorry. Thought I had sent some to you a year or two ago. You'd love it. Almost as bulletproof as Spudakee and maybe a tad more tasty.

As to your question, I don't know what the parent other than Sudduth was. I'm assuming it was a purple or black beefsteak RL. But that's just an assumption based on emerging color and the shape never being anything but flattened beefsteak type.

Just grew brandywine in a 15 gallon container, planted in November. Did fine here in South East Florida.

I think if any of you have had trouble growing brandywines in the past-whatever you location in the world, you would get far better results growing the new Brandywine that came on the scene last season, called (Cowlick's Brandywine) and is probably still in short supply as far as seed is concerned-until perhaps the end of this season when there should be plenty of them about.
Cowlick's Brandywine grows better and is not half as fussy as some brandwines as to soil types and conditions, weather conditions and temp fluctuations, and will usually give a much larger crop of large tomatoes.

People were very successful in all parts of Europe last year, the UK, Germany, France, and Italy at growing it, it has better disease resistance than the standard B.W. and the flavor and taste is almost identical, and in some cases -better, depending on the individuals feeding program and seasons sunshine.

If you ask around-I am sure you cant still get a few seeds of it to try for this season within the next two to three weeks or so,

To the extent that Brandywines need "special care", here is what Fusion advised me in an earlier post where I was lamenting my belief that Brandywines won't do well here in the South, but I was going to try them anyway and was wondering how many to plant:

=====
Try to grow 4 Brandywine plants. I grow 4 or more each year and typically get between 30 and 50 fruits per plant. The way you get that kind of production is to put plants in the ground VERY early. My frost free date is April 15th but I put the Brandywines out about the 25th of March. I have to cover them up with styrofoam buckets 2 or 3 times before the weather settles down. The plants are developing root systems early enough that the plant produces a huge crop. Please note that Brandywines are rampant growers and benefit from a heavy dose of fertilizer. I put a gallon of chicken manure well worked into the soil for each plant and I add more as needed to keep the plants growing vigorously. This is roughly the equivalent of adding 3/4 cup of 13-13-13 per plant to the soil before transplanting. Be sure to work it deep into the soil for best effect.
=====

Someone who is sending me Brandywine seeds that he thinks may be acclimated to this area (since he's grown them for years) commented that he gives his plants plenty of time to grow BEFORE setting them out -- IOW, take up some of the required time by growing them indoors so they are large and healthy when they're set out. I assume this is another way to guarantee that the plants will be productive before the heat and humidity set in.

I live in the Brandywine Valley (the Amish around here are supposedly the developers of the Brandywine in the late 1800s). I've grown at least one Brandywine for many years, but they don't produce a lot of fruit. A few very big fruit. The plants also grow huge and are heavy.

Thanx Bill for the info. The name Big Cheef sounds familiar. I just went through my collection and what I found from you was F1 Brandy/NAR seed from 2006 and Brandy/NAR seed from 2007 stating I should get 25% PL. Well, I only started 5 plants that year and all were RL. Same 08 and 09. I may grow an F4 this year but like I said I'm not expecting anything great.

Bill, if you did send Big Cheef I apologize but I can't find it and I do recall you sending some other varieties but can't find them either and I'm usually pretty good at keeping my seed in only two different spots! LOL I'll just look forward to growing it next year as it sounds great. I'll be starting my 2010's in about 9 or 10 days. I started the OSU blues a couple weeks ago and got 4 for 4 to germinate. Also, just posted a pic of my first daffodil to bloom this year on FB. Rabbits ate all crocus foliage down to the ground second straight year...:(

I live in the Brandywine Valley (the Amish around here are supposedly the developers of the Brandywine in the late 1800s). I've grown at least one Brandywine for many years, but they don't produce a lot of fruit. A few very big fruit. The plants also grow huge

******

Yes, there is documentation for Red Brandywine in PA in about 1885, but no documentation for either Brandywine or Yellow Brandywine originating from the Brandywine River Valley.

For anyone interested there's a nice writeup about the various brandywines at Victory Seeds. Craig did the family ones and I supplied the info for the non-family ones.

Carolyn

Carolyn or anyone, what do you think the odds are that Brandywine DID originate somewhere in or very near the Brandywine valley area? I read Craig's piece at Victory and it seems Ben Q got the seeds from Doris Sudduth Hill but nobody knows where Doris and her family lived and grew for those 80 years. I'm guessing it WAS the Brandywine valley because of the name. So it's either PA or DE. All just my guess. Is there another Brandywine valley in N. America? Anyone have a better idea or guess?

There is no mention of 'Cowlick's' Brandywine in the article. Anyone know how or where this guy came from? Because I'm growing it because of all of the hoopla...:)

As far as a place where Brandywine's grow well, I'll have to list my home garden as one of them. Despite the horrible weather last year with the non-stop rain and cool temps, I got lots of very nice fruit from my Brandywines - all in the 1-2+ lb. range. I wouldn't say it was the most productive of all my plants in terms of numbers of fruit, but I got about 15+ huge beefsteaks per plant. Doesn't seem like much, but my biggest was 2 lbs. 11 oz. (they all averaged well over a pound, with many in the 2 lb. range) - so that's about the size of 4 of any medium size variety. Didn't take many of those to make a ton of tomato sauce and salsa :)

The taste was good on some, but wasn't all I had read about, but to be fair, the weather was the worst I've seen in years as far as rain and low temps. I was just happy to get some production since most of my neighbors didn't get much of anything and lost a lot of plants to blight.

My garden is located at the top of a gradual hill, with practically no trees, so we get a pretty steady breeze most of the time and we get sun from sun-up to just about sun-down. Soil is a fairly loose clay (after a year or two of amending) with tons of worms. My plot used to apparently be part of an old turn-of-the-century farm.

If you had lots of rain, low temps, or any other extreme on weather last year, I'd give it another shot. I'm actually re-growing some of last years less-than-spectacular performers because I don't feel they got a fair shot last year. As many people on these forums will tell you, the vigor of the plants and taste of the fruit can vary greatly with the weather and other growing conditions.

Even though these are the tomato forums, I can site an example from growing hot peppers - since with them, it's more pronounced. I grow the same peppers every year and I've learned that you need to taste them before adding them to a sauce / salsa. One year, I may need to add a dozen Jalapenos to my salsa, the next year it might be six because they are so much hotter, I have no fixed recipe because I don't want to burn my dinner guests! :D

"I read Craig's piece at Victory and it seems Ben Q got the seeds from Doris Sudduth Hill but nobody knows where Doris and her family lived and grew for those 80 years." [BigDaddy]

It's my understanding that Doris Sudduth Hill's family grew their strain of "Brandywine" in Tennessee, far from the Brandywine Valley.

Likewise, so-called "Yellow Brandywine" reportedly came from Charlie Knoy who lived in western Indiana, even farther from the Brandywine Valley.

Considering how many new varieties of tomato have sprung from that known pollen hussy Brandywine Sudduth due to natural cross polllination just in the past 20 years, it is hard to imagine the original "Brandywine" staying pure to its "Amish" or whatever other roots over the 80 years preceeding its introduction to the wide world of tomato enthusiast in 1980s. I mean unless the only variety ever grown in the Sudduth family garden was "Brandywine."

Thanx for that info Bill. Still puzzles me why someone growing a variety in Tenn. would name it after the Brandywine valley. Must be some connection there. Seeds from a relative perhaps? Guess we'll never know. Bottom line...it's a GREAT tomato!

BigDaddy says, "Still puzzles me why someone growing a variety in Tenn. would name it after the Brandywine valley. Must be some connection there."

Creeks Named Brandywine

Bill, never heard of any of those imposters! LOL And none in 10-s-e! And our Brandywine is the famous one that George Washington may or may not have relieved himself in! ;-)

Last year in a cold, dry season, the first fruits of three types of BW were slap yo' mama good...later on after persistent rain, they were more like givin mama a dirty look...real variable around here!

To answer the original question...here in south central Pennsylvania, (Gettysburg,Pa.) Brandywines grow very well. At least most years! Last year was a much cooler and wetter year than normal here and all tomatoes suffered somewhat, especially those that I had planted earlier.
I've grown every type of Brandywine I could lay my hands on over the years. As well as hundreds of other varieties too.
I discovered Cowlick Brandywines and named them such after the nursury where I had gotten the original plant. I've told the story many times in the past both on this forum and others.
I began distributing seeds for Cowlick's in 2007 and over the years have sent out seeds to just about everywhere. Not only have Cowlick Brandywines been grown successfully in just about every state here in the USA but also in Europe, Africa, Asia, other countries in North America and South America and Australia.
I just found out recently that tropical grower in the Phillipines had a successful crop of them which really surprised me.
My original "Cowlick" plant produced over 100 lbs of the tastiest tomatoes, so those that say they only get 1 or 2 from a brandywine plant need to try Cowlicks Brandywine. It has continued to be a heavy producer for me year after year.
The only Brandywine that comes close as far as taste, in my opinon, is Glicks Brandywine which is almost as tasty but not quite as productive, still produces lots of good sized tomatoes and is still better than Sudduths Brandywine which is not as productive or as tasty.
I have found Dora and Gary O'Sena to be close to my favorite Brandywines in taste but lacking in production. I think Sandul Moldovan is a good competiter to Brandywines and has beaten them in taste on a few occasions.
I rate and post my listing yearly at idig and this year My favorite Cowlicks came in at #9 as far as taste goes, Glicks was at #14. Sandul Moldovan beat them both at #4!
The winner this year for best taste was #1...Dana's Dusky Rose, followed by #2 Amazon Chocolate and JD's Special C-Tex bringing up 3rd place.
A couple "New To Me" varieties did very well and should be mentioned. #5 was Lillian Naciejewski's Poland Pink and #6 was Barlow Jap both great tomatoes!
Earl's Faux came in at #30 this season and had quite a problem with "BER" early in the year, but improved in August.
I should also mention that Cowlick's Brandywine was tied with Lancaster County Pink for the first tomatoes to ripen this year on 4 July but has ripened as early as 26 June in the past. It also produced well as late as 31 Oct of that same year when a freeze did it in, and it was still loaded with green tomatoes.
I should also mention that Red Brandywine which I don't consider to be a "true Brandywine" as it's Regular Leafed instead of Potato Leafed and produces a smaller tomato, is also a good producer, but a different tasting tomato, that is still quite good.
Yellow Brandywines are later growing tomatoes and are lacking somewhat in taste as far as I'm cocerned. I have never had much luck with Brandywine-OTV so will not comment much about them. Black Brandywine, took #2 position back in 2008, but proved to be too unstable in both taste and leaf type as well as fruit shape. I'll continue to plant some but not on a regular basis as there are too many better dependable tomatoes.
Again these are my opinons for here in the Gettysburg area, but I can say "Cowlicks" have produced well all over From Germany to the Phillipines, from Jackson, Mississippi to northern New York State, On the windswept plains of Kansas to the coast of Florida, Cowlicks have done very well.
Before this begins a new flood of requests, I have sent out all my extra seeds back in Oct and Nov, so please don't ask... I have only a few for myself this season. Sorry!
Camo

Camo, why don't you consider Red Brandywine to be a "true" Brandywine just b'c it has RL foliage?

Red Brandywine is just as much a "true" Brandywine, dates from roughly the same time period that Brandywine dates from, probably a bit earlier, and to boot is the only one we know some information about. That is, it's Amish in origin, well, let me cut and paste from the Heirloomseeds site which is owned by Tom Hauch, and he was the first to get Red Brandywine out of the SSE listings. He sent seeds to Steve Miller at the Landis Museum and it was Steve who got the background info on it.

#112 - BRANDYWINE, PINK 80 days - Introduced in the 1890's, the large vines have potato-leaf like foliage and pink fruit that weigh 1.5 pounds or more! The slightly lobed fruit is mild and juicy, with a low acid taste. We highly recommend this old-time variety! Indeterminate vines.
PKT. - 20 seeds - $1.50
#O112 - PKT. - 20 seeds - $2.50 - CERTIFIED ORGANIC

#110 - BRANDYWINE, RED 80 days - Our best selling tomato! First introduced in 1885 by Amish farmers in Chester County, Pennsylvania, the large vines produce fruit that are 8 oz. to 1 pound in size and deep red in color. This excellent tasting tomato is very productive, and is our favorite! This is the original Red Brandywine, first offered by our company in 1989. Don't accept other companies version of this best selling tomato - we are the ONLY seed company offering Red Brandywine from our original select strain! Indeterminate vines.
PKT. - 15 seeds - $1.50

#O100 - BRANDYWINE (Sudduth's Strain) 90 days - From the legendary Ben Quisenberry collection, we now offer this great tasting Brandywine variety! Mr. Quisenberry obtained this variety from Dorris Sudduth Hill in 1980, who's family took pride in growing for over 80 years. This large, pink beefsteak variety is considered by many to be the best tasting pink tomato. The luscious fruits can weigh up to 2 pounds and have an intense, rich tomato flavor. Indeterminate vines.
PKT. - 20 seeds - $2.50 - CERTIFIED ORGANIC

There is so much wrong info out there. Someone has claimed that Brandywine was introduced by Johnson and Stokes but the picture for it in the catalog when it was IDed does not show PL foliage, does NOT mention fruit color, etc.; it's a line drawing. I have that picture and can send it to you if you'd like. Others Say Brandywine was introduced by Burpee as Mikado Pink, others say that seeds for it were sent to this or that place by a home grower. And on and on.

The ONLY Brandywine, of those that are family heirlooms, the pink, the red and the yellow, that we have a definite background for is REd Brandywine, RL foliage and all. LOL

If anyone is interested there's a good article at Victory Seeds written about the various brandywines. Craig LeHoullier did the three family heirloom ones and I provided the information about the ones that resulted from cross pollination or were deliberately bred.

Carolyn

I'm glad Camo chimed in, I was about to find the link to his story. I've been following him for several years on another board and got a few Cowlick seeds this year in a trade. I'm going to grow them side by side with Brandywine (from Seeds of Change-unknown "strain")and Earl's Faux. I've grown BW (unknown strain)here in WNY since 2006 (prior to that I grew it in NC). I've never really taken notes in the garden prior to last season but production for BW has always been low. Since the taste was good and production isn't a huge deal for me I made room for it. Last season I got serious about taking notes about production and such and I "shook" them everytime I was in the garden (daily) and seemed to get more fruit on BW than in the past. However my entire tomato crop was decimated by late blight. So much for note taking!

Camo, I'm roughly 90 to 100 miles southeast of you. Sudduth grows very well here too and I'm trying your Cowlick's this year for the first time. Seeds already germinated! Gary O Sena also tastes great to me but wished for slightly better production. Earl's was a bust this year, a disease magnet and I've given up on it. Reminds me of the Faux PL Red Brandywine that TGS sells. We share a lot of similarities...;-)

Carolyn,
I knew as soon as I wrote that statement, I was going to be called on it! It's not just the fact that it's a different leaf type, but I guess in my mind that has some bearing. As you know, I've been growing tomatoes for more years than I want to mention. And I remember Brandywines from back in the 1950's. They were all pink, potato-leafed, large plants with large tasty tomatoes. As a matter of fact, back then there were primarly two or three tomatoes that we always grew. What was called Jersey Beefsteak, Brandywine (pink), and a version of Rutgers that was considered a hybrid back then.
I don't recall hearing of Red Brandywine till sometime in the 90's which was also the time that heirlooms began gaining in popularity. Maybe around the time or slightly before your book was first published.
Over the years I've grown every Brandywine and Brandywine cross that I could find, be it pink, red, yellow, black, purple, or whatever...In my mind and I should have put I in quotations I suppose, they are a Pink Variety. It's only in the past 8-10 years that there seems to be so many varieties of Pink Brandywines. I feel partly responsible for that for naming Cowlicks as such. I did it only to keep those seeds seperated from all the other Brandywines I was growing at the time.
Initially, I had no intention of becoming involved in seed distribution or trading or swapping. It was only when Jay and a few others mentioned that they had such trouble growing Brandywines, which was my best tomato, that I sent some seeds here and there. Never expected it get so out of hand and having people writing everything from sob stories to just pleading for seeds.
I often wonder why I got so involved in this as it is. I just love Brandywines, and Cowlicks is so superior to other Brandywines, including the famous Sudduth's strain, which is a good tomato, but doesn't measure up to Cowlicks or even Glicks in taste or even come close in production.
So in "my opinon" Red Brandywine is not in the same category as pink Brandywines, although it's still a great tomato! Also wish to point out that the #5 tomato was Lillian Maciejewski's Poland Pink with an "M" not an "N", before I get called on that.
One of the reason's I've been staying away from posting as much on tomato sites. I enjoy breadbaking, cooking and recipe sites much more lately! Seems to be too many explanations required or differences in opinons with the tomato forums.
Camo

bigdaddyj,
D.S. told me she gave you some cowlick seed and received some of your Gary O' Sena in return. I hope they do well for you. My Gary O'Sena's tasted great and had good size to them but production was nowhere near what I was expecting. My Dora's did much better! I had quite a few Earls Faux, as I was really looking forward to trying them. They suffered terribly with "BER" the first month they produced but then when the weather warmed up in August and dried out some they got much better. They were all heavy and tasty.
Also found Rose and Richardson to be two others that are in that class of tomato and they did very well. If you like Sudduth's try Glicks also, much better in my opinon. I also recommend Sandul Moldovan which is a tasty pink that is right up there and Tarasenko6 is a great red. If you talk to D.S. again ask if she has any extra seeds for them as well as others in my top 20 some odd. I always send her plenty! Good Luck with all that you grow!
Camo

ljinny,
First of all, good luck with your cowlick's, and all other varieties that your trying this year. Last year was a terrible year for tomatoes here, also. Although those planted much later did fair better.
Also suggest you continue with your shaking of all brandywines. I find that it helps increase production on those with larger flowers. I think it also helps pollen grains released by the anther to adhere to the sticky surface of the stigma usually within the same flower, which helps to prevent cross pollinating from outside sources for those that don't bag.
Which brings up another point, I've given out so many thousands of seeds the past few years, that I cannot assure that all cowlick seeds grown by others are pure. We can only hope that most are bagging their blossoms in an attempt to keep seed true.
Thanks also for your kind words and I hope I can continue to be of some help with my tomato reviews on other forums and here too.
Have a great growing season!
Camo

I see that there is a great popularity of BRANDYWINE(this/that) amoung
the gardeners in zones 7, 6, 5, 4. For the rest of us in zones 8, 9, 10,..growing Brandywine successfully is more challenging.
So, as I sift through all the info, I come up with this theory that
BRANDYWINEs, don't like hot, prolongeg summers. So in the south
you have to start them real early inside and plant a big seedling at the first chance for early crop.
Also, plant some very late, for late summer/early fall crop.
Another thing is that, if in fact BW does not like heat that much,
plant it somewhere with fewer hours of sun and let it cool off in the shade for a while.
I will experiment my theory this year, EXCEPT that I will not be able to have a real large seedlings by APR 15, as my BW seeds have just germinated...TOO LATE.
Unless I can spot one at the local nurseries.

Camo, just curious, but what was the plant labelled at the nursery where you bought it that you then called it Cowlick's?

I don't think I ever asked you that before.( smile)

Yes, we've had the age debate before and I'm older than you are. LOL

Actually heirlooms started being known to the public more widely in the early 80's, not the 90's, and well I remember getting almost all my OP varieties from Seeds Blum and Gleckler's. Jan Blum had a teriific catalog, for any of you who might remember, but she couldn't adapt to computers so when it took months and months and then even a year for some folks to get their seeds she just went out of business.

Gleckler's had been selling great OP stuff starting with Adam's father back in the 40's and was a pioneer in that respect. So many of us older, ahem, folks are delighted to see Adam, grandson of the founder, back in business with some rare, hard to find tomato varieties as well as some time tested standards.

In the early 80's more folks were also learning about SSE and they had started in 1975.

Before the end of the 80's, following the interest in Blums and Gleckler's and SSE the following companies started: Southern Exposure Seed Exchange, Totally Tomatoes, Heirloom Seeds ( PA), Tomato Growers Supply and a few more.

So almost all the companies we have today, and there has been rapid proliferation of them, were built, if you will, on the backs of Gleckler's, Blums and SSE.

Although I was raised on a farm where we grew acres and acres of tomatoes and was up close with them since the time I was about 5 or so, I never had the time or space to grow what I wanted to grow until I moved back home from Denver and then had all the room I wanted at the old family farm, and that was in 1982.

So by the mid-80's I was growing pinks and whites and reds and golds and bicolors and blacks and green when ripes and PL and RL and angora leafed varieties and having just a wonderful time, seldom looking back to all the round red varieties we grew when I was a kid. But I have to tell you that some of those commercial red varieties were darn good and still are.

Changing the topic slightly.

I think whoever siad it above, I'm too lazy to go back up and see who it was, was absolutely right when it was said that in general more folks in the warmer zones have problems with Brandywines, and I'll add some other PL varieties, setting fruits well than those of us in the cooler zones. There are always exceptions to that comment but I think it's fairly accurate.

I've also been reading/posting online about gardening and tomatoes in particular since 1989 and have had one heck of a lot of feedback about tomatoes b'c of that.

So onward we all go in our pursuit of new varieties to try each year and compare with what we've grown in the past, and it's my opinion that the more varieties a person has grown makes it much easier to judge the worth of anything newly grown. At least that's what I do and how I think about it.

Carolyn, who this year will pass the 2500 varieties grown to date and that's one heck of a lot of varieties. LOL

Carolyn,
I believe it was labeled "Brandywine" but it might have been "Pink Brandywine". Right from the getgo, it stood out against all my other brandywines (pinks). The plant itself was larger and much more robust looking. I planted it in the corner of my tomato patch right up against the center of the sandmound.
I had seven other pink brandywines planted to its right in a straight line. and three more running perpendicular to it on the western edge. Then some mortgage lifters and Caspian Pinks. Others in the vicinity were German Johnsons (R.L.), Boxcar Willie's, Cherokee Purple's, and Mr. Stripey's (the larger one).
It began producing ripe tomatoes the end of June, weeks before any of the other Brandywines. They were large! They were tasty! and they certainly were plentiful.
As the other pink Brandywines began to ripen, there was no comparison. Those from "Cowlick's nursury" were so much tastier and even looked nicer. The Pink Brandywines from Dana's Nursury were almost as large but not near as tasty or as well formed. Those from Ashcombe's were even less desirable. Country Market's were even less so.
It didn't take long for the "Cowlick" to become my tomato of choice for its superb taste. Where the difference really surfaced was towards the end of the season, which was much later than normal that year. All my other Brandywines began to produce less and less, some quiting altogether. But that cowlick's just kept on producing plenty of tasty tomatoes.
By the end of September a few quit producing entirely, but not the "cowlicks" ripening began to take a little longer as the sun was getting weaker, but I continued to pick ripe Brandywines up until October 31 of that year, and it still had lots of green tomatoes on it when I pulled it up as they were calling for a Killing frost that night and it was the last tomato in the garden and I wanted to till the gardens. Still, it had produced strongly for over 4 months.
I returned to the nursury to see if I could find out more about the variety, but the owner was a flower grower, that only planted a couple small trays of tomatoes, and he showed me the "catalog" from which he had purchased the seed. It was a Pennsylvania outfit that simply called it Brandywine. I think it was an Amish family that grew them , but I can't swear to that now. Its been a few years and my memory isn't what it used to be.
From that time on I purchased seed for every type of Brandywine I could find and many different sources for each. None equaled it's superior performance, although Brandywine-Glicks came very close in taste it couldn't compete in production and Sudduth's Strain fell behind it in both. Plain Pink Brandywines behind Sudduth's.
I had also purchased seed from the same place as the Glicks that was called Brandywine Stumps, which was very good, and isn't the same as Stump of the World which I also like.
Over the years, I sent seed to many, in different states and then to different countries. I was amazed this year when tropical grower reported success with his "Cowlicks" in the Phillipines. It's hard to get more hot and humid than there and he had a pretty good crop. I never thought they'd do well there. So it's with that knowledge I feel safe in saying they can do well in heat and humidity. Others in Texas, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia and Florida have also done very well with them. I still recommend a good shaking once or twice a day, especially in the hotter and more humid areas and it seems to pay off.
While other tomatoes outperformed them this year (more to do with bad weather and planting schedules), in taste; very few could beat them in production. And they still remain as one of the most disease resistant plants in the gardens.
I was trying to resist telling the entire story again as it's on all the tomato forums including this one, but now that I've rambled on about them once again, I can only hope it doesn't disappear once more. Have a great season ahead, although I feel somewhat apprehensive about the coming seasons weather. I'm reducing my tomato gardens from the usual 235-250 some odd tomato plants to only 25 this year. Of course that will also bring my seed distribution to a screeching halt also. Will see what happens in the future! Stay healthy!
Camo

Camo, I don't know any true Amish or Mennonites who have seed businesses in PA or elsehwere, but the seeds could well have come from Heirloom Seeds in PA. I doubt if any nursery person is going to buy organic seeds for same offered by our mutual "friend" Lisa at the prices she charges, and you know what I mean about friend in parens. Actually someone called to my attention the blurbs she wrote about Todd COunty Amish and Amish Potato Leaf at her website, two varieties that I first listed in the SSE YEarbook. And so much of what she wrote were outright lies, but I won't go further. And yes, she knows they were lies b'c part of her descriptions were directly from the SSE blurbs I wrote about each variety when I listed them. Do I e-mail her or not? I haven't made up my mind b'c I'd have to correct her on quite a few other misstatements she's made and knows better. Enuf said.

Carolyn

Carolyn,
It wasn't heirllom tomatoes, as I was familiar with that name and Chuck Wyatt's and would have recognized it immediately. It was a name I didn't know and I'm positive they were from Pa. I should have paid more attention to the 4-6 page catalog when he showed it to me, but I was trying to concentrate on everything he was saying.
I'm also confused on what your saying about Lisa. I was the one that bought seeds from her, not the owner of Cowlicks nursury. I reread my posting and yours and I'm not comprehending what is being said otherwise, but that could be me.
we've had discusions about her varieties and names in the past and I don't want to dig up old dogs, so to speak. I can only say that my original Glicks came from there as did the Brandywine Stumps, both of which have done great for me. I don't know what they might be known as elsewhere, but like her Amazon Chocolate and Gigantesque and even Lancaster County Pink they've been fantastic. As a matter of fact Amazon Chocolate was my #2 tomato this year and was very high the year before also. I see others listing it now, but originally mine came from Amishland.
Sometimes,and I'm not looking for an arguement here, it might just be enlightning to try a variety and see what you think about it instead of just condeming it untried.
Everyone I know that's tried Amazon Chocolate has loved them and they are one of the top rated varieties by those that have grown them. They are NOT anything like Cherokee Chocolate in the least, as some have attempted to imply on one of the other forums.
I had offered seeds for you to trial a while back but you declined at the time, and I repeated the offer in another forum when you mentioned you'd like to try some from here rather than elsewhere and I asked you to PM me your address. I never heard from you and now I've given away all my surplus seed, as that was quite a few months ago.
I just think it's unfair to pass judgement on a variety without trying it yourself, and that's not aimed at you, but at any and or everybody. So many read what someone else says and takes it to be gospel without ever having tried it themselves. Over the years, I've grown and eaten a couple thousand varieties of tomatoes, and have formulated opinons on them, but they are based on what I've eaten not on what others say. Certainly, this may not be fair, as some years, like this past year, what I tried wasn't true to form, so to speak. Many of my very favorite varieties tasted bland and watery, as the weather was terrible. Those planted later were much better and were mostly the new to me varieties. So those that didn't do well there will more than likely get another chance in the future, as many were highly recommended. Unfortunately, it won't be this coming season as I'm determined to plant only 25 plants this year!
I don't think there will be anymore tomato reviews on the forums as I get tired of defending my opinons. I rarely look at this forum anymore for various reasons and I think I'm going to limit my postings to cooking/baking/ and recipe forums and do my best to ignore the Brandywine and heirloom tomato forums. So take care!
Camo

First, LOL @ Mulio!

Second, I hope you are still here Camo so I could respond. Yes D.S lives just 5 minutes from me it turned out! She gave me many of your varieties and yes I gave her some Gary O Sena. I also told her if I get good germination on my 12 OSU Blue seeds I'd give her a plant which I intend to do next month. I just wanted to thank you for your response above. I am really excited about the Cowlick's! As a long time Brandywine lover (19 years) it would be great to find a Cowlick that even out does a Sudduth! LOL Also, I don't know if you are on facebook but we have many tomato growers on there now and it's light and fun without any one-upsmanship or arguments like sometimes exists on these forums. I grow my tomatoes for FUN and because I love em, not to argue about them. If you are ever in Northern DelaWHERE this summer maybe D.S, you and myself can get together. I got a Weber, beer, cigars and lots of tomato plants...;-)

they grow well in kansas city / had a good crop last yr

I think they tend to grow well where the heat and humidity aren't too high. They grow well here in Napa, CA, but twenty miles to the east where I used to live, they weren't nearly as productive (too hot in July and August).

seedboy, that seems to reinforce my conclusion too.
I read all kinds of success stories coming out of
zones 6, 5, 4. But nothing from zones 10, 9, and 8 where the
summers are hot and humid.
It seems to me that BW has a potato like habit that will not fruit
when it is too hot. I am now growing some seedlings
just for the heck of it. But I will plant some for late summer and early fall later.

They grew fine for us but did not taste any good, insipid and mealy. It was the pink potato leaf type of Brandywine (whatever strain that is?). Not worth growing again here, unless I really trust the seed source. The productivity was fine too.

This year we are trying the 'black' brandywine, (despite rumors that it is really purple...LOL). The reason we are trying again is because we trust the seed source, so if this one does now work out we will throw in the towel on the brandywines once and for all.

Some potato leafed tomatoes grow very well here in zone 9 and produce tasty fruit. Stupice comes to mind, also Glacier (a bit less tasty IMO but still OK).

It was the pink potato leaf type of Brandywine (whatever strain that is?).

****

that's not a strain. Brandywine is a pink PL variety. Most places haven't the faintest idea of what strain they might be selling. ( smile)

I know of only two sources for Black Brandywine, which is no more black, really, than most so called blacks. One source was the one listed by TGS where there was a cross in the growing fields of someone they subcontracted to, but it turned out that it was not geneticall stable and Linda pulled it but I know some [places are still selling it.

The other source is Baker Creek where they offer A "true" Black Brandywine via WWW and there are quite a few folks who are not comfortable with the background given for that one.

Carolyn

Between the previous TGS and the BC versions, I prefer the Black Brandywine that has Feegee Beefsteak in its parentage. But Big Cheef is even better for a Black Brandywine, in my opinion. Now that's a truly true Black Brandywine right there!

The black brandywine seeds we got were a gift from a friend in zone 8a who saved them from his own garden. No idea for how many seasons and what was the original seed source.

We are growing many that he sent, I would not have picked them but I was in his garden and saw how nice and productive all his plants were. That is all the endorsement I need, even though I realize his climate and soil are different. I did not research BB but the two seedlings I have ready to go in the ground have regular leaves...?

Going to the garden to find spots for a few tomatoes now.