Is it ok to cover the ground with landscape fabric before filling, to keep any leftover weed out of the bed?

You could, but I don't recommend it. Use lots of newspaper or cardboard instead. It does the same thing, but doesn't doesn't last as long. The problem with weed fabric is that it comes in 2 types. The first type is the thin stuff that is worthless. Weeds grow right through it and it tears easily once exposed to the elements for a month. The second type is much more durable and will last for many years. To the extent it prevents weeds from growing through it also stops roots from growing further down and it slows drainage. See my comments below on your weed issue.

Can I fill the beds with straight compost?

Sure, but compost is not stable, it is organic material in an advanced state of dcomposition, but it isn't fully decomposed. This means that it will continue to decompose and the soil volume shrink over the seasons. I would recommend filling the beds with quality soil to the level you want it and then add compost once or twice a year for conditioning and fertility.

Can I place the beds closer to the root zone of the trees in order to keep them from being shaded by the fence?

Yes, but be forewarned that tree roots tend to find fertile areas. Not all trees are equal in this regard.

Will that Darn weed be gone by next year and should I take a chance of getting it back in the beds?

Depends on what the weed is and where it is getting it's energy from. If it is a weed with an extensive root system and it isn't killed off it is entirely possible the plant will live outside the garden and grow into it. Identify the weed and half the battle it over.

Should I lasagna layer leaves and grass in the beds for over the winter or should I wait and just fill with compost in the spring?

Up to you. Lasagna layering does nothing but make compost. Either let nature take it's course or bring in the finished product. If you want a consistent soil depth though you need soil, not compost or compostable ingredients.

Hi Username 5 ..

Thanks for your input...

First of all about the weed. I looked at photos and I think I identified it as quack grass. It has those white stringy roots, that if you cut into them by digging them out, you end up with more because the little pieces you don't get out stay and regrow. I have it everywhere and I haven't even finished mulching to get rid of it. I have an area right next to the area we already cardboarded and mulched that still has it and we plan on doing that as well. It has been a long summer and we ran out of steam. But either this fall or early spring, we will be cardboarding and mulching that area.

Thanks for that explanation about the compost. My problem is that I have a very flat backyard. My soil is clay, but a loamy clay, that has a ph of 6.4. I think the soil is fine for growing in, but I would have to dig out soil and I don't have a place where I don't need it. I would then have "craters" where I dug it out that I would have to fill in. I hate to buy soil..then I have to trust. [g] I don't trust very well when it comes to some things.. I am an organic gardener and I am always worried about what problem I am going to bring into my yard if I import some soil.

Any ideas on which is the best option?

So as for the landscape fabric...didn't really want to use it anyway...no problem going with the cardboard. Since I have had the problem with the weedy grass and I am placing the raised bed on top of that mulched area, I was thinking I didn't want to disturb it by breaking up and turning over the soil under the raised beds, but just lay the cardboard on top of the mulched area and fill and plant.

About the tree roots...yes I understand they will look for my veggie soil. I have a London Plane tree and some evergreen trees in the neighbor's yard backing up to this area and a line of silver maples to the west of it. I KNOW! Horrible, but I don't have any choice to place the beds, because of the area that has the most sun.

Imagine a 90ft by 60ft rectangle and you are looking down on it from above...that is my backyard. One long side is the house/garage and the other long side is the back edge of the lot on the West side with 3 old Silver Maples on the other side of my fence and a border of shrubs on my property. The proposed vegetable garden would take up a 35x35 square ft area bordering the North short side. My veggie beds 4 4ft squares, would sit in the Southeast corner of that square.

I hope that makes sense.
Believe me I have seriously considered just growing in containers all the time, but I have done some of that in the past few years and I just really miss having a permanent vegetable garden. My plants do okay, but I always think they would do better in the ground. Plus it isn't as attractive. BUT if I thought I would end up fighting that quackgrass again and finding it in my veggie beds, well..I would rather garden in containers all together than have to deal with that.

One last description...looking at the 90x60ft rectangle that is my yard, 30 feet from the North side of the rectangle from one side to the other seems to be where all the weedy grass is. I don't have it at all down the other end of the yard or the middle as far as I can tell. So I have mulched about 2/3 of that whole side of the yard already.

Thank you very much...I know it takes time to read and respond to such a long post and I appreciate it.

Oh, BTW, I linked my past post about the weed if you were interested.

:-)

Adam

Here is a link that might be useful: Losing a 20 yr battle with a weedy grass

First of all about the weed. I looked at photos and I think I identified it as quack grass.

Sigh... I have that stuff too. Been battling it for years (ever since I moved here). In my case it is in the lawn. In the garden it is easy to pull out because the soil is loose, but in the lawn I pull it after a rain and pull and pull and when it regrows I pull some more. I have greatly reduced it after 3 years and I don't know how many hours. In the fall is when it goes to seed and that is when I pull some more and burn it. I feel your pain. If it is indeed quack grass I wouldn't worry too much about it in the garden if you keep things weeded and regularly add compost to keep teh soil loose. It is easily pullable in such a situation. It isn't one of the more enjoyable parts of gardening, but...

My soil is clay, but a loamy clay, that has a ph of 6.4. I think the soil is fine for growing in, but I would have to dig out soil and I don't have a place where I don't need it

Don't dig in your soil at all. Build up over it. A ph of 6.4 and a loamy clay is pretty close to ideal veggy soil if you ask me. If you are digging to control the quack grass don't bother. I mean you could, but then just turn the clumps over and cover that. Personally I have done enough digging in clay soils to avoid it whenever I can (I just got in from the garden where I am putting in a 5'x5' sandbox for the kids and had to dig the area out. Got my excersise for the day ;-)

I am an organic gardener and I am always worried about what problem I am going to bring into my yard if I import some soil.

Usually none, but it is possible. I don't see any alternative to bringing in soil if you need to raise the level of the ground permanently. I mean assuming you intend to grow all annual crops and don't mind replacing lost compost volume each year with more there is nothing stopping you from gardening in straight compost. It works just fine.

For a large area like yours I paid an excavator to bring in a truckload (about 10 yards) of sandy loam topsoil. Haven't had any problems with it, but YMMV. A lot easier (and less expensive) than loading bags of topsoil from the store into the car over and over again.

I was thinking I didn't want to disturb it by breaking up and turning over the soil under the raised beds, but just lay the cardboard on top of the mulched area and fill and plant.

Good idea.

About the tree roots...yes I understand they will look for my veggie soil. I have a London Plane tree and some evergreen trees in the neighbor's yard backing up to this area and a line of silver maples to the west of it. I KNOW! Horrible, but I don't have any choice to place the beds, because of the area that has the most sun.

The silver maples are going to grow into the garden area no doubt about it. Gorgeous trees, but their manners are just awful. I had a house foundation cracked by one at a previous location. Never again will I allow a silver maple on any property I live at. I would refuse to buy a house if the yard had one within 200' of the house my experiences were so bad. However, you have them so make peace with them (If cutting them down and having a lifetime supply of firewood isn't an option ;-). You will just have to hack roots every couple/few years if they become an issue. What can ya do, ya know?

I think you will be just fine. Just build up the beds on top of the existing ground layering with cardboard as the base. Bring in soil to permanently raise the soil level or use traditional lasagna methods or bring in compost and plan on replacing lost volume each year. It is up to you. There is nothing wrong with starting one way and changing a year or two later if you wish to. Heck, I start over almost every year ;-)

Don't worry too much about the quack grass (or whatever it is) in the garden as it will be easier to control with regular maintenance than it is in the lawn.

Hello again username 5 :-)

My sympathies to you for the quack grass. I am sure you have heard the old saying....about changing what you can change and accepting what you can't and the wisdom to know the difference? Well...I agree with you that accepting quack grass is the wisdow to know the difference...lol. I am not sure I don't have it in the lawn, but if I do, I don't think it is everywhere. The one area I think it is in is adjacent to this vegetable area and I am not growing grass there anymore but installing a walkway with flat stones and creeping thymes between it. I am going to mulch that heavily before I do though and maybe let it sit there a whole season before I try laying stone. And I am going to plant the thyme very closely to get it to fill in fast.

I am hoping that I may have killed 90% of it this year, in that area, because it has had cardboard and bark mulch covering it for three months and it has only rained twice in two months. I had another area of the yard, that I wanted to put a mulched sitting area in and I left clear plastic covering it for 2 years before we mulched it and put a sitting area there. We barely saw a weed for about 4 years after that, and just started getting them back this year, so we cardboard and bark mulched again and so far haven't had to weed this season. That area didn't have the quack grass in it though. I wanted to use the plastic technique for the quack grass but didn't want to injure the neighbor's trees.

So my soil is close to ideal..hmmm...that is good to know. If I just had full sun and about an acre more of land..lol. This land used to be farmland in the 1940s. So I don't have to add lime to the soil for the veggies, right? I seem to do ok with the veggies. Last year was the worst due to horrible weather all season. Rain, cloudy, no breezes, humidity, heat..everything bad and nothing good. I got diseases on my tomatoes that I never got before. Thankfully this year was better. Even the dryness was ok for the tomatoes and peppers with supplemental watering. We also took out a 120 ft of overgrown shrubs along the lot line in the spring which really opened up the yard to air circulation. We planted new shrubs, but it will be awhile before they are that overcrowded. [g]

I have one veggie bed near my back door that is on the other side of the yard. It is raised with cement blocks and instead of soil, I piled half finished compost and shredded leaves in it. I put in a couple of kale plants last spring and when it got hot, I pulled them except one that I wanted to leave to go to seed. After I collected the seed, I just left it there when I got busy. I had parsley in the bed too that I wanted to try to winter over. I put more shredded leaves around them and I was so happy to see that the parsley came back this year and has gone to seed. Love when it does that. The beneficial insects love the parsley flowers and I love the seed. The Kale plant, started growing again in the spring so I just left it, it flowered and went to seed again and I got busy again..lol .... and didn't pull it. I was so surprised to see it start growing again after it went to seed, and right now I have a kale plant producing very nice dark green leaves and it is filling up about a 4x4ft area of that bed. No covering either. We juice greens all year, so I am glad to have that plant with no work for it, right next to the back door.

What is YMMV? [g] Okay well...you are right, nothing is written in stone. I may try using the lasagna bed technique and I can always add something else in another year if "disappearing" soil becomes a problem. Yes, I am growing all annual crops. How did you find the excavator that brought you in a truckload of soil? Sandy loam sounds great! I am not going to plant up that whole 35x35ft area with veggies. I am going to fill 4 raised beds that are 4x4ft. and I want to construct a structure to house compost and grow squashes and pumpkins etc up the structure. I will have a lot of just mulched area between the beds.

WOW! Those silver maple roots are amazing~ ! I am SO sorry for all the trouble they have been to you. If we ever move, I am going to remember that. We had a neighbor 3 yards over just cut down every tree in his backyard. Why oh Why couldn't the people in the next yard do that?! LOL Oh, well, we aren't going to be moving anytime soon, so you are right, just have to make my peace with them. I thought maybe every fall, I should take a shovel and just push it into the ground around the perimeter of the beds to sever any small roots that are trying to get a foothold. I already found out first hand how they will go for anything raised. I have had them fill up a compost pile that I left too long, and have had them in my veggie beds over the years. What can you do...is right! Not very many people have the "perfect" growing environment. Everybody has something.

Thanks so much for talking this all over with me. I am much more certain about what I need to do next year, and I can get started getting ready for next year, this fall. I rarely come to this forum. Especially this summer as I barely had a veggie garden. Had some plastic totes from Lowe's with 3 tomato plants, and a pepper plant. Two zuchinni and two eggplants in a bed in the ground...which btw was near that area that I mulched and was FULL of quack grass all season and nothing grew well. I didn't get one eggplant. The container plants grew much better. Two zuchinni were TOO much..lol. Next year, I have been told one is enough. ;-)

Oh, btw, how much lawn do you have that has the quack grass in it? Have you tried that corn product that is supposed to suppress weeds?

Adam

So I don't have to add lime to the soil for the veggies, right? I seem to do ok with the veggies.

No, lime is for raising ph. A ph of 6.4 is good for most veggies which prefer a slightly acid soil which is what you have. You shouldn't need to adjust the ph of your soil at all unless you try growing something that needs alkaline soil or really acid soil like blueberries. Compost is usually near neutral ph (7.0) so it should assist in keeping your soil ph in a good range.

What is YMMV?

Your Mileage May Vary. Just means that what worked one way for me may or may not always work the same for everyone else.

How did you find the excavator that brought you in a truckload of soil?

I called a local nursery looking for the soil. Usually they sell it, but they were out. I asked where they got their soil from and they gave me the number of the excavation company that gets the soil. I just called them and had them drop off a truck load. I think I paid around $15 per yard including the delivery charge so it was lots cheaper than buying those 1cu foot bags for $1-$2 in the store.

Oh, btw, how much lawn do you have that has the quack grass in it? Have you tried that corn product that is supposed to suppress weeds?

It was really thick in an area about 20'x30' and sparsely in the rest of the yard. The sparse stuff was easy to control as it hadn't set extensive roots yet, but the thick stuff required a few years of pulling and there is still some left. I have to wait until next year to see how effective I was this year. I am sure next year will bring plenty of pulling.

I think you are refering to corn gluten meal which is a pre-emergent for seeds, but it doesn't have any impact on perenial plants so while it might supress the seeds the grass dropped this year it won't prevent the existing stuff from coming back. I am pretty good about pulling it when I seed seed stalks.

Ok..that is easy to remember about the lime..only for alkaline lovers and really acid like blueberries. Since I would rather avoid having to amend excessively, I have stayed away from the plants at the ends of the ph spectrum.

YMMV...very cute, I like that one. [g]

That is a good idea, I know a nursery that I trust that I could ask about soil delivery. Hadn't thought of that.

I haven't used the corn gluten yet, but for the weeds I want to control, I guess I don't need it anyway.

Thank you very much for all your time and expertise. Well, I am sure I will be back with more questions and hopefully not to report more of the quackgrass!

Adam

Ok..that is easy to remember about the lime..only for alkaline lovers and really acid like blueberries.

Actually I probably wasn't as clear as I should have been on this. Lime is for raising ph as it is a very alkaline material. Sulphur is for lowering ph as it is very acidic. So lime = alkaline, sulphur = acid

If you think of sulphuric acid you can remember the sulphur(ic)=acid. For lime it rhymes with alkaline. That's how my brain thinks of it anyway ;-)

No...you weren't unclear..I was unclear..lol. I understand that the lime will make it more alkaline and that if you wanted the soil more acid you add something else. I just didn't know what you add is sulphur. Thanks for the rhyme..I love to remember things that way..

:-)