'Local Vigor'

15 years ago

I haven't seen this topic addressed here, but if it has I apologize.

I see that there are wildly differing opinions on the virtues or faults of a particular variety of tomato.

Granted, certain varieties may be better suited to certain climates and conditions.

However, wouldn't local adaptation or acclimatization of the seedstock also make a huge difference? I have heard this described as "local vigor"--that is, seeds are saved from plants thriving under specific, localized conditions, including soil-type, climate, elevation, etc. The next generation of plants grown therefrom are (perhaps)more adapted to this location than those from a "foreign" source.

My question is,if a Paul Robeson (for example) doesn't thrive for you in New England, is it because it is not a good variety for your area outright, or is it perhaps that your seed-stock comes from some totally different climaate like California or Florida?

Similarly, I wonder about taste/texture--do certain soil types or characteristics lead to greatly varying tastes and textures in the same variey?

Since most of us are dealing with OP varieties and saved seeds, maybe the difference between a negative opinion of a particular variety and a good opinion could be solved with the propogation of seeds from a "local" source?

I bring this up because I grew Paul Robeson's for the 1st time this year from California seedstock (very successfully)and I live in area in CA with hot, arid summers, whereas Paul Robeson is frequently described in other posts as an early or cool-clime variety only.

Sort by:Oldest

Comments (4)

seedboy
15 years ago
My guess is that local adaption to an unfavorable climate would only occur if you grew out a large number of specimens and selected from the most vigorous offspring. Otherwise, it's simply a matter of whether the plant already has a genetic tolerance for the climate variables in your location. That's just my thinking. I could definitely be wrong, especially since I've only taken a few botany courses in my life. Interesting question, though. I look forward to reading others' thoughts.
carolyn137
15 years ago
The topic of local adaptation has been discussed here many times in the past.

From a genetic point of view it doesn't make much sense to me other than those landraces of Ethiopian Wheat, for instance, that took a couple thousand years to adapt.

Tomato seed, both hybrid and OP, is primaily produced these days in the far east and there's no problerm with folks using seed grown in China or any of those other countries.

And I can't see seed produced in CA for heirlooms doing any better or worse there than elsewhere.

Many of the smaller seed companies that sell heirloom type tomato seed produce most , if not all, of their own seed, so that means seed produced in PA, TN, MO, CA, OR , ME and more is sold and appears to do just fine.

I think it's more the local conditions for each grower that appear to make a difference when speaking of a specific variety. Issues such as soil type, how the plants are grown, what amendments are used and when and how much, the degree of various disease(s) present in specific locations, the weather in any one season and on and on.

Carolyn
Related Discussions
Can Fragrant Cloud ever be vigorous?
Q
Comments (27)
Seil, I'm so sorry to hear! Try just one more time? ;) Though a blend, I'd like to try 'Sedona' next season. I saw it at a local nursery that is one of Weeks' customers. I loved its intense fruity, pear-like scent. The blooms were an eye-catching blend of orange and yellow with the guard petal red splashes. They looked vigorous with good basals. Gosh. Here I am always telling myself how much I prefer crimsons and purples and soft accent shades, but I turn around and SEE what I actually have, and it's a whole lot of vivid, flame colours and yellows: Lady Emma Hamilton, Maria Stern, Helen Hayes, Sunsprite, Tropicana, Fragrant Cloud, (yes, even never-sheds-nasty-old-petals): Sunny Knockout, and finally, a Westerland! I seem to be a sucker for our more or less modern day Pernetiana shaded roses! I love trying different types. If they make it, great! If not, I can get something better! My Fragrant Cloud is out of its last flush (one bud left) but is already sprouting for its next set. I think this next flush is number four. Steven
...See More
Are clones of older roses less vigorous?
Q
Comments (19)
Masha, my DD is a bloomin' machine. I have almost never seen it without a few blooms at least, and usually many. In fact, I sometimes feel it blooms too much, because the number of blooms and the size and bright color, it kind of hogs the attention from the other more modest roses. It's December and there's blooms on it right now. It just gives me an excuse to cut them and bring them in, I really like how they open to white in the house. But with regards to your original question, it's my understanding that just as roses develop sports and they are sometimes an improvement, a cultivar can degrade. And sometimes when a particular rose is in high demand, cuttings are made from inferior degraded stock, and so they get passed around, and unfortunately are not really the same as the original of the same name. That is why it's so important that we support good nurseries and growers that employ knowledgable rosarians, and nursery people.
...See More
Should I prune extremely vigorous shoots on sweet orange?
Q
Comments (1)
They are watersprouts; and generally indicate you have been a little too kind to your tree in terms of food. If you prune them back to the level of the "normal" leaves, they will revert back to normal growth and eventually produce fruit just as the other growth.
...See More
Pruning vigorous HTS in soCal
Q
Comments (60)
Re: alfalfa. I've read wildly differing reports of it's NPK content; some saying it's especially high in nitrogen(eg 512), some saying it's a very good balance (usually still slightly lower in P, eg 212 or 323). It seems it varies according to the source/form. All agree it also contains a fabulous assortment of minor and micro-nutrients, thus, as Jeri points out, making it an especially effective rose fertiliser/amendment. As I understand it, the micronutrients make other nutrients more bio-available, amongst other benefits. I've been wondering lately about growing it amongst roses - it has a very pretty violet-blue flower which I thought might be a reasonable alternative to eg catmint in aesthetically complementing the roses. However, I haven't actually seen it growing to be sure of of whether the whole plant would actually look good enough. Since alfalfa hay is often on sale around here, I'm assuming it suits our hot, dry Mediterranean (mild, wettish winter) climate. The point I'm getting at is that after flowering, it could 1) be used as a green manure, ie cut down at ground level leaving the roots in the soil to do their nitrogen-fixing thing; 2) the stems could simply be chopped and left on the soil as mulch, providing soil moisture evaporation protection (or composted first, if preferred) 3) meanwhile all its other important minerals and micronutrients would be released into the soil as it gradually rots down 4) eventually the whole plant would become incorporated into the soil, where it could do its spongy long-term moisture retention/soil structure improvement thing... 5) sow more alfalfa. Or maybe it would self-seed if plants were left long enough before cutting down? I kind of think this sounds like it could make for a pleasingly simple and cheap all-purpose system, in theory at least! Nate, maybe some system like this could be just enough to keep your HTs fed and healthy??? While placating management's rather unusual horticultural 'idees fixes' - 'cos after all, you're only putting back what was actually growing there. Of course they wouldn't have grown alfalfa with their HTs in the 50s!! :¬D - but maybe management could be persuaded, perhaps, say, to allow it to be grown as a border around the bed if not actually between the rose bushes - like the clover suggestion, though ahem!.. rather more conspicuous? Just a thought, anyway... I'd be very interested to know if anyone has actually tried this, or has any comments/ thoughts on the idea. Comtesse :¬)
...See More
colokid
15 years ago
Thank you Carolyn. I wonder about the difference between varieties in growth. Right now I have two plants side by side in the same container. One is growing great, and the other is fighting to get its first true leaves. Container is about 65 degrees. Artificial light. Will not name the weak one, but the tough one is stupice. I keep looking at it several times a day, but that doesn't seem to help. :>)
carolyn137
15 years ago
Thank you Carolyn. I wonder about the difference between varieties in growth

*****

For sure there are differences in growth with different varieties.

What comes to mind for me ASAP is Riesentraube which starts out very slowly with a small flattish seedling but sturdy plants, and then spurts ahead to form a large indet plant.

Different varieties can have different growth rates and I think many of us have seen that from the seedling stage onward thru transplanting out to mature plants.

I'm not an experienced container grower and I've never put more than one plant in a container but I can't help wondering if what you describe might be due to competition between two plants in the same container for both water and nutrients.

Others with more experience can perhasp speak to the competition/container issue.

Carolyn

'Local Vigor'

Comments (4)

seedboy

carolyn137

Related Discussions

colokid

carolyn137

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US