I haven't been reading all the threads on this forum or any for that matter this week with everything going on. Just read through this thread. I hate to start on a thread if I don't have time to read all of it. I could just say Ditto to what Dawn said and leave it at that. But then Dawn would be disappointed if I didn't ramble on aimlessly a little. I will address the issues in no particular order. Seranade. Last year I did like this year started off trying to go without spraying and then when I gave up already had some disease issues. I agree it is best to start if you plan to spray 7-14 days after transplant. I pruned leaves last year and then sprayed with Daconil heavy the first time and then at the regular rate and the first two on a five day rotation and after about 3 weeks things were going good. I then decided to try Seranade. No change in weather and no moisture. In five days I was in another mess. Early blight mainly and a few spot problems. I then went back to Daconil and stayed on a 7-10 schedule till Labor Day and then quit spraying and things were fine. So for me it hasn't worked well at all. I listened to the Rutgers/Cornell webex and they stated that they hadn't seen good results on a consistent basis with Seranade. Like Dawn said you need to balance that a little but have seen many say the same. Think it may work under certain conditions. This summer I have used Daocnil mainly along with two forms of copper and may try another. Copper seems to work better on the spot and speck. Daconil covers more diseases and works well especially on EB. I didn't spray during the last rainy spell due to rain every night. Not complaining. I did spray one night and got two inches a few hours later. When the rain quit and it warmed up I had some spot so sprayed with Copper. The EB took ahold again. So have been trimming leaves and spraying with Daconil and think I have it under control again. I have read some of the organic controls and have tried some from sources I respect. I haven't tried the skim milk yet but may sometime. Did try the peroxide this summer and may try it as a preventative next year. I saw some promise to it. But just thought I had better go with what I trusted as the insect borne diseases were getting so many didn't want to lose any I could possibly save. Think in a normal year that it might be enough. But will have to use it for a few years to make my final judgement. I usually try to go by the label on spraying schedules. Most will say 7-10 days or 5-7 days. I have seen several back east spraying every day or every other day and some have lost every plant and some have only lost a few after the Late Blight hit. Fortunately I have no real experience with late blight. With Early blight as a preventative I've had good results on a 10 day schedule if you have little or no rainfall and not many heavy dew mornings. If the dew is heavy or you have rainfall I would decrease that. With copper most of mine say from 5 days up. In a rotation I spray on the 5th day if weather allows. Now we get into some of my observations and opinions. Like I stated earlier in the year. I have less problems and better results in a normal year with plants planted late and even volunteers. There have been a few exceptions. This year is holding true. I put out several late for several reasons most covered in earlier posts. From me breaking off a few, early wilt on a few and then I had some plants that I wanted to grow that got stunted in a new seed starting mix also had a few nice plants left in the frames when I went to clean them out although most were rootbound and should of been out weeks earlier. This year is a typical year for them. Even the stunted plants have took off. No disease and setting fruit. Will they ever be as big of a plant. No. Will they produce more fruit per plant than the early ones when you figure all the ones I lost. Yes and I feel more. I know a market gardener not far from me and she is like me. She grows a few earlier ones because there is more demand and they sell higher earlier. But like she said the plants that really start producing around Sept 1st will do better and produce more with less care here in our climate. She is about 80 miles SW of me in the TX Panhandle. For me if I want to stay mainly organic later planting is the best in a typical year. I will continue to scatter my plantings from early to late so I can cover my bases. I'm also trying some direct winter sown and also starting some in the cold frames and then going into the garden a few days after they break the ground. The ones started outside seem to be healthier. And can withstand elements a little better. With all of this said I still haven't found a good plan for the insect borne diseases except rain. And they have been my big problem this year. And the other thing is stress caused by weather conditions. I was looking at some last night I had been threatening to pull for 7-10 days. They are looking better now and the purple is going out of most of the leaves. Shows it was stress and weather related. I've found no sure way to tell besides time or sending off a sample. Final summary is that Daconil works for me. The copper's work for a few specific problems. The Garlic Barrier spray I used this summer controlled most insects if applied on a five day or less schedule. It doesn't control hornworms or psyllids. BT and Spinosad worked on most of those that it didn't except the thrips. I didn't have near as many but a few. And that could of been because I wasn't spraying on a five day schedule. One thing I plan on trying next year is peroxide and Garlic Barrier on a 5 day rotation starting a week after transplant or emergence. Many say healthy plants will withstand a disease problem. I feel that it really helps but had some of my biggest and healthiest go down. And when it comes to the insect borne diseases I don't see much that help. Many say to kill all weeds around. But like I've told Dawn I've seen some of the best tomatoes this year growing is weeds and bermuda grass. i know one friend who let weeds grow in her plants and one marker grower who leaves all sunflowers. Saying they attract the insects that carry the diseases away from the tomatoes. i feel there is some truth to that. Hope your plants recover and do well. Jay

Should work as it's basically the same principle as row covers and they work. But it's lighter weight than even the insect barrier row covers so you won't have to worry about heat build-up under it. Only possible problem I can foresee is making it flexible enough to grow with the height of the plants. Good luck and let us know how it works! Dave

Will planting garlic with tomatoes discorage beneficial insects ***** For several years I planted tomatoes at a friend's garden and Steve was very much into companion planning and using nettle teas and all else to control critters/insects, etc. He was also a garlic lover and for three years running he planted garlic around every single tomato plant in the garden ( about 50 plants) and saw absolutely NO change in the numbers of stinkbugs or Colorado Potato Beetles or hornworms, which are three of the baddies where I live. He finally concluded that it wasn't working and asked me to get him some COlorado Potato Beetle Beater liquid to spray, which I did. Now that's planting garlic to discourage bad bugs. So I'm sitting here and I'm wondering what the good bugs for tomatoes might be and I can't come up with any, save the following. Perhaps if a person isn't saving seeds from an OP variety one might consider tomato blossom insect pollinators as good bugs, but that's about all I can come up with right now in terms of anything beneficial to tomato growing. And garlic isn't going to have any effect on insect pollinators. Carolyn

"basil can become bitter ..." Not my experience. I keep basil cut back to keep it from flowering so it will produce for longer period of time. As basil matures, the leaves will become less tender, which is perfectly good IMO for making pesto, or for putting in the freezer for winter. I also plant new basil every few weeks through summer so we will have the tender leaves for chopping when fresh basil is called for, like in tomato salads. Later in the summer, I let some of the basil plants bloom. Bees love it, and so do hummingbirds. Then it produces seeds which can be saved for the next season. I have never known basil to become bitter, but mature coarse leaves can have a slightly peppery taste which I do not find offensive.