Oh, forgot to mention, I liked the layout of the Exo-terra all galss tanks, but the biggest one is still too small for me. Somthing like that on my scale would be perfect.

For your size, I would just use glass. Plexi will likely cost more, as it is made from oil and the price of a barrel hasn't exactly been dropping lately. Plexi scratches much easier, and although it can bow, I don't know about bowing much with 9 inches of water. Glass will also be easier for you to build with. It holds together just fine with silicone, and your dimensions are small enough that weight shouldnt be a problem. As for the price, I don't know what is reasonable. I think it is typically around $3 per sq/ft around here, but I haven't bought it in some time.

-DH

Hi
Don't know if I can be of much help as my situation is much different. Like you i've been very frustrated by the cost of materials .Might ask some questions to get a better idea of the plan. I think i understand sort of a terrarium on top of an aquarium?? A paludarium or river tank??
Why did you decide on those dims?? Special location within the room?? Why 9 inches of water?? Intend to keep fish in it??
i used a 75 gallon aquarium for the base with a plexi part on top which extends the depth to around 1 meter.
This was by far the cheapest way to go but has many short comings both esthetic and practicality.Access being very limited very difficult to clean the glass particularly below water line.Have to remove upper section to get to the bottom section and so on. feeding fish is difficult.
You're wise figuring the cost before starting construction.
Of course you can use other mats. for non viewing sides and use different thicknesses for areas with less stress.
Have you thought of used mats.?? Though aquariums don't make good vivariums they are easy to find and you can't beat the price,especially used.
On the 75 for example I gave 125 dollars for it and they want 75 for a piece of glass 20x48 lol
Hopefully you've looked around the web for inspiration??
They don't give much help with cost though lol
gary

USE WOOD!! I know it sounds crazy at first, but many people even make their own aquariums using 2 by 4's and plywood. I too have used this technique with great success.

To explain it in short, you basically build any sized enclosure you want out of wood beams and plywood, and you can even integrate a stand into the design. You can add molding to the outside of the cage, and then paint it, essentially turning it into a piece of furnature.

The most important part is waterproofing the inside. You need to apply several coats of good quality "2 part epoxy paint." You have to special order this online. The paint can be a bit tricky to work with, but you can definatly succeed on your first try. Once dried, the paint essentially turns into plastic, and is entirely 100% waterproof. For added precaution, you can even glue pvc pond liner to the walls (over the epoxy).

One of the greatest advantages of this system is that you can easily drill drains/bulkheads/holes wherever you like.

As a matter of fact, I just finished building a plywood cage with dimensions very similar to the one you described. It measures 2 meters long, one meter deep, and one meter high (roughly). Its as solid as a rock, and hasn't leaked a drop. The cage and stand are integrated and were built as one, so the entire unit stands over nine feet tall. The front side of the enclusure has an 8" plywood lip, and on top of that are my removable glass doors. This allows me to have an 8" deep substrate/false bottom setup that doesn't come into contact with the glass.

Don't forget to condiser the amount of light you will need for a large sized cage. My light system is a 5oo watt compact flo. setup.

Right now I'm doing the interior. It's a blast!

I'll post some pics in the gallery.

Danny

hey gary, thats actually great advice
I'd heard of tanks being made from wood, but I kind of dismissed it. Even though the sides wouldnt be visible, the cheapness would mean i could make a much bigger tank, plus it would be much more sturdy, with much more flexibility in my construction becuase its made of wood. My dad's freind is moving to singapore and he's selling his 80 gallon aquarium for $100 (cdn). Thanks for making my decisions more complicated! Lol, jks, thx for the help.

How do i see the galary?

Keep in mind that wood makes a better door than a window. I would imagine thats why they build doors out of it too.. :)

-DH

*i meant to thank CDfortin for the advice on wood

Anyway, are you sure that the 2 part epoxy wont harm my animals? (aka, nontoxic after drying)

Your welcome. After the epoxy paint cures it is completely nontoxic. In fact, the tanks of many drinking water storage facilities are painted with epoxy.

To go to the gallery, go back to the terrarium forum's main page. Just above the top post is a header that reads "On topic discussions." Just to the right of that is a small option you can use to switch to the gallery.

I've taken 100+ pics of the project, but of course I can only post a few here. Eventually I'll probably build a webpage or something. Feel free to ask me any questions.

Danny

thx CDF. Have you seen the black jungle tank they constructed? (Yours looks like it was following some of the same concepts too)

Another Question for Anyone
They used "great stuff" (triple expanding foam) and Black and Decker Silicone II (i think its B&D). I've seen both of these in my hardware store, but im a little wary about using them, in case they could hurt my animals. But if black jungle used it it must be safe, right?

I'm also posting a new thread later, Mostly aimed at fellow canadians here, u guys have been a great help here.

Here is a link that might be useful: Black Jungle Vivarium Setup - (sooo cool)

Hi
Have been using the silicone for many years even in marine setups and have never had a problem.I have found that the GE type II is far more adhesive for a longer period of time than other types.
As to the "Great stuff" only 3 years use as a waterfall base and slightly over a year as a "Rock out crop" for a riftlake cichlid tank. Have never detected the slightest change in water parameters in either situation.
I've been told that it will deflate over long periods of time and will lose it's adhesive qualities.Niether has happened in these setups.
There was a great debate on a marine list over this but the longest anyone had used it was 7 years.
I've always used Acrylic paint in my setups .Have painted pipes that are going on 15 years underwater.Except for chips there is very little fading.
I'm too cheap to pay for black PVC lol. The surface must be clean and allowed to thouroughly dry.Much cheaper than the epoxy and you can get small bottles in many colors.
I want to make a "drip wall for the shadehouse around 6x6 feet and have been thinking of using the great stuff
perhaps over a PVC frame. Want to make it as thin as possible so I can use both sides for planting.
Have no idea how this will work considering the weight of such a large mass. But think it's worth a shot.
gary

Sorry to say it, but glass is also made from oil (indirectly, but they do have to ship the sand around, melt it, cart it). I expect acrylic is better for the environment than glass, and you can burn it when you don't want it any more. Or you might be able to find thick polycarbonate (lexan) and use that (they seem to use it all the time on mythbusters :).

I would recommend the plywood surround approach, as plywood is tougher than glass or acrylic, and lighter as a result. You can probably use 6mm ply with a rib over the surface for strength, or you can do what I did, and cut up old internal doors. Look around for a second hand desk, dresser or similar for the base so you have drawers to put all the nicknacks in.

See if you can get sliding doors second hand, with tracks. Much easier than putting hinges on heavy glass.

Regarding the drip wall, I don't think greatstuff would work too well (it might, haven't looked around) as it won't hold any water, and more importantly, it won't wick the water around evenly. Natural drip walls are usually porous rock (sandstone, mudstone, shale, etc). I made mine from polyester (synthetic) carpet underlay I got from a dumpster on a nearby building site. However, finding a suitable pump is a real challenge. You want an efficient pump that is submersible, lifts high, with a low flow rate. I used to have a nifty little 12V pump, probably for windscreen water, but it got lost. The standard suspended impeller type pumps for water features will burn out quite quickly if you run them at low flow rates (they use the water for cooling). I also found that I needed more sun (i.e. some) than I expected to grow anything but algae, moss, mould and ferns. Bromeliads, orchids and AV need considerable sun to do well, rather than just revert to their natural brown goo state...

Yea, as of now, Im building the frame out of 2x4s (i know 2x4 may be a little thick, but id rather be safe than sorry). I'm then going to put in 3 of the walls and the bottom using finsihed plywood. I'm then going to put the glas in the front (9" will be solid, unmovable glass at the bottom and rest will be two pannels that swing open)
The top I'm going to make a removable screen.

I ordered my first batch of orchids yesterday. Huzzah.

Gary, I think your idea of a dripwall is exvellent, let me know if u ever do it.
Natan, I dont think I'm going to be able to get sliding doors used, which si a bummer, so I'm dividing the glass pane verticly and having it open outwards attached to each side, that should make up for the heavy weight. I hope.

One more question regarding toxicity, In many terrarium guids they use "liquid nails" adhesive to attach epiphytes to branches, etc. Is this safe too?
Sorry, im wary of using all these chemicals around my plants and animals.

Hi
I've never been able to get "liquid nails" to adhere for any length of time in a moist situation. The silicone II is by far the best and is completely inert when cured.
IMO the product is so superior to any other there's no use comsidering anything else. I used it to glue the roof on my aviary and it withstood two hurricanes!! Excellant for gluing plants in place also.
Nathan
I really wouldn/t want the drip wall to absorb water just distribute it in a thin continuous sheet.It will be located in the shadehouse and the primary function would be
to increase humidity and air movement and hopefully some heat during a cold spell. As a bonus it would provide a place to grow wet epiphytes and act as a biofilter for a pool.
I want to build a large terrarium and at this point I think the best location is in the shadehouse. A climate controlled area where I can take advantage of the natural light. Don't know whether to use glass or make movable screen panels that can be put in place when necessary.
Right now the whole dims would be 25x25 x10 feet high.
Sort of a greenhouse/terrarium/landscaped aviary.lol
At last I'm trying to organize my collections into an integrated system where they can be properly taken care of.
Remove all aquaria from the house eliminate the marine
and get rid of most of the yard plants..
At this time I'm thinking along the lines of a "Rainforest" environment rather than a collection of plants and animals. Sort of everything in one area.
Had hurricane damage to the shadehouse last year so maybe a good time to redo everything!!
gary

IF you "re-did" everything again, wouldn't you be afraid that another hurricane would blow through and mess it up?

Hi
That's a good question. Have lived here 25 years and have only experienced four hurricanes. Only two did any damage at all and those were last year. The worst part was being without power for 22 days!! Completely wiped out the marine aquarium and sure made a mess of the terrariums.
The stuff outdoors actually did much better.
I kind of put hurricanes with other natural disasters Fire hail flood earthquakes mudslides tidal waves,tornado
Severe cold or heat.
I guess everybody builds things with the idea that they won't happen??
No matter where you live there's something
gary

IMO?

IMO = In My Opinion.

ahhh, gottit

Cut two of the peices for the bottom half of the frame today. Its tough work with a hand saw, but Home Depot doesnt cut 45 degree angles on the end. Ugh. Thank god for miter (sp?) boxes.

Oh wow I would have never attempted my undertaking without power tools!!! How big are the final measurements?

I did end up using a miter box, but that was only to cut the decorative molding. Hmmm...I never had to cut 45 degree angles when I was building the framework -- I guess it depends on how you want your corners to be.

I can post more pics of the framework I used if you want me to.

One more thing: I initially thought I would be able to finish the cage in about a month -- it ended up taking the better part of a year. Don't get discouraged! Do lots of planning and research. Good luck.

Danny

uhm, this better not take the better half of a year.
Unfortuatly i dont have acess to power tools, but the measurements are basically perfect

im finishing the bottom half of the frame tonight with my freinf right now.

Hi, Danny seems to be "the man" as they say! I will be using his ideas on my next viv, I have always made them from old aquariums, using the blackjungle method (great stuff foam) it has always worked out well, but I like the idea of being able to drill or cut what I need with no special drill bits and stuff! Ever try to cut/drill glass! UHG! pain in the......yea. Thanks Danny! and good luck to you Tom!

Thx. Finished bottom frame. Its 3 feet wide, 2 feet deep and ribbed across the bottom with 4 support beams. I bought the plywood for the walls, but im going to leave that until tomorrow. I should probably start taking pictures or somthing, u know, chronicle my adventures for future generations.

Cdfortin, what brand of epoxy two part did you use/would you reccomend, can you give me a link? I bought some stuff but Im very sure it isnt the right stuff.

You need to be VERY careful and take your time when choosing and using the epoxy. Basically, you want a decent quality 2 part epoxy kit composed of a base and a curing agent. It is a good idea to purchase an epoxy that does not blush, meaning that you don't have to clean off a byproduct residue between each coat. A decent 1.5 gal kit will cost between $70 - $100. It might sound expensive at first, but this stuff is AMAZING.

I bought my epoxy from Progressive Epoxy Polymers Inc. Their website is quite complicated, but it's loaded with info: www.epoxyproducts.com

Their actual online ordering form is linked on the bottom of this post.

I ordered the "Basic No Blush 2 Epoxy 1.5 gallon kit" for $72.00 plus shipping. It worked great!!

A few tips for using the epoxy:

Use it in a VERY well ventilated area. Wear a gas mask (available at lowes or home depot) if possible.

Apply multiple coats (I did 4).

Mix each batch (the life of each batch is about 30 minutes) VERY well. I used a mixing device that attatched to my powerdrill.

One you mess up, there's no going back! After this stuff cures (in about 30 mins), it is rock hard.

Sand and clean the plywood very well.

Remember to take advantage of the fact that you're using plywood. Drill bulkheads before applying epoxy.

When applying the epoxy to vertical surfaces (the walls of the cage), add some epoxy thickener so that the coat doesn't drip or sag.

Good luck. Danny

Here is a link that might be useful: Online order page