Squash bugs or (U)squash(/U) bugs or (S) use Ortho Bug Be Gone(/S

15 years ago

I made the fatal mistake of using "Free" city mulch last year. I got one hell of an infestation of squash bugs, the first time in 50+ years of gardening. Too much of a coincidence, I know I got them from the city. Last fall when I cleared the garden of debris, there were thousands of them. With the few warm days we have had this spring, I am seeing them everywhere. I will probably be seeing them in my sleep. My problem now is, do I quit growing summer squads for several years (my favorite veggie) or do I use Ortho Bug be Gone. I think there will be too many to control them manually.

John

Here is a link that might be useful: Johns Journal

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Comments (16)

ribbit32004
15 years ago
Squash bugs are tenacious!! There's not a garden around me for miles and those buggers still sniffed me out. I got to the point last year where I didn't care if the things I used were going to kill me. By god, I was going to kill them.

I guess it depends on how anti pesticide you are. I'd say use whatever you like as long as you're still willing to eat the product, otherwise it's a mute point.
anniesgranny
15 years ago
John, try rotenone. It's a much friendlier bug killer than Ortho BBG. If you want winter squash, plant Waltham butternut, which is resistant to the SVB.

Granny

Here is a link that might be useful: Annie's Kitchen Garden
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If you use a floating row cover over squash seedlings to prevent SVB infestation, it will also prevent early damage from squash bugs & cucumber beetles. The cover needs to be removed when flowering begins, and I occasionally get a small outbreak of squash bugs soon after... but most of the adults are gone by then, and there are very few eggs. (I find that all major insect problems for squash, cukes, and gourds are either reduced or eliminated by protection with floating row cover. C. pepo and C. maxima squash are nearly impossible here without it, and virtually certain when protected from early attack.) Both squash bug adults & nymphs are easily killed with a soap spray, as long as they are completely covered. The nymphs usually cluster together in numbers... bad for the damage they can cause, but convenient when spraying them. For large-scale infestations, I would agree with the recommendation for Safers insecticidal soap, since it will cause less leaf burn. But for small outbreaks, or if Safers is not available, the following formula is effective. It was originally posted by Jimster, and I quote it often: "INSECTICIDE: A U.S.D.A. formula combining oil and soap is effective in killing soft-bodied insects. Mix 1 cup peanut, safflower, corn, soybean, or sunflower oil with 1 tablespoon liquid dishwashing detergent. To make the spray, use 11/2 teaspoons of the oil-detergent mixture for each cup of water." I mix it a little stronger, and with the addition of a little sugar to the formula, it will even kill cucumber beetles. The spray can cause minor leaf burn, but I only use it for spot applications - usually on or near the ground, where the bugs like to hide. Most of the adults I find are either near the base of the stem, or under a dead leaf... so the board (or pieces of cardboard) might work to kill them. That's why I never mulch under squash vines, only under the growing squash.
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How to kill squash bugs
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"If you have neighjbors with squash or pumpkins, you need to do that for them too. LOL" I can just picture the destruction... Wayne, a.k.a. "the midnight stomper". Sort of gives squash patch a whole new meaning. ;-) On the relatively rare occasions when I see squash bugs, I use a solution of soap (dish or baby shampoo), rubbing alcohol, and water in a horse spray bottle. If you are concerned about leaf burn, you can use Safers as the soap... or you can just rinse the leaves off after the spray has done its work. Provided that the bugs are completely covered by the spray, they die very quickly, within a minute or two. This works on all stages. I've even sprayed it on egg masses, and checking a day later, they were brown & dead. The best way to kill squash bugs (as well as SVB & cucumber beetles) is to not get them in the first place. In dense urban areas, or within a community garden, this is not always possible... the resident populations are just too high. But if the garden is fairly isolated from other squash growers, floating row cover is a good solution. Cover the plants immediately after planting (if transplants) or before germination (if direct seeded). Keep the plants covered until they begin blooming, or until they outgrow the cover. In my area, by the time I remove the cover, the egg laying period for most squash pests has passed... SVB in particular. Compared to SVB, the reduction in squash bugs is just a fringe benefit. For summer squash, if you don't mind getting your zukes late, a mid-summer planting might avoid nearly all squash pests. Last year, heavy June rains kept me from planting squash on time, so instead of long-season winter squashes, I planted short DTM summer squashes. This was over the July 4th weekend. I didn't feel like laying row cover, so I over planted the zukes & yellow straightneck, expecting heavy losses. Much to my surprise, there was no SVB, no squash bugs, no cucumber beetles... nothing. In spite of the late planting, I found myself drowning in zukes, and froze enough to last the winter. Still have about 20 pints left... good thing too, since it looks like yet another late, very wet Spring. :-(
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Vendors in and out of U.S.
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I think at this point I'm inclined to agree with Mary. It seems if your order is small, it tends to pass through customs swiftly. I placed two solo orders this summer, one from Aleya and one from Epiphytica that breezed through in record time. The cuttings looked freshly picked and had a near perfect survival rate from both vendors. Example 1: Acceptance at Thai PO: May 14 Inbound into Customs: May 16 Inbound out of Customs: May 18 Delivered: May 19 Example 2: Acceptance at Thai PO: May 18 Inbound into Customs: May 19 Inbound out of Customs: May 22 Delivered: May 23 No judgement about how crazy I apparently was in May, please... ^_~ We did get into kind of an uncommon fiasco with Denise's order, none of which any sane person would hold her or Jack accountable for! It did make me think we might have been more cost efficient just swallowing the import and shipping costs for solo ventures though. I actually had the majority of plants from that order survive and just took them out of the aquarium a couple days ago. I think they all must be suffering from survivor's guilt (projecting? me?!). I sure hope plants don't have a version of PTSD. NPR once informed me that they do suffer from jet lag. I wish I could remember how they measured jet lag in a plant. I have used the registered envelopes strategy from Aleya before, but in my case it ended up taking slightly longer than the above EMS example. So, I went back to EMS, but I don't have strong feelings one way or the other. Regarding pitting one Hoya vendor over another... Well, I certainly don't want to shame any forum member into holding their tongue in fear of becoming a social pariah. But let's not forget that we're not talking about Amazon and GAP here. These are our precious, few-and-far-between Hoya vendors and we're lucky to have every one of them. Let's try and be generous minded, because I doubt any of them are rolling around in piles of money from the lucrative Hoya business. You know, different vendors have different strengths. You have to find who works best for your needs and there really is no right answer. What might be perfection for one customer is annoying for the next. But you have to accept that the vendors have the right to make their own judgement calls about what they can do for you and what they can't. It's nice to have the flexibility to change or add to your order, but making changes to your order increases the likelihood of human error, and I've seen that happen. Joni has experimented with all kinds of bonus services over the years, and what I deduce from that, is that she's willing to go above and beyond for us. But what doesn't work, just doesn't work. Remember that what is a half an hour every few months for you is their 12 hour day. As far as the mealie bug thing goes... well I've never gotten a mealie from Thailand, which is a thing of beauty. But the scale can be a real beast. And you know what, it's fine. I've also had problems with mealies from American vendors this year and that is fine too. The thing is, as nice as it would be to order new plants and never have to worry about them being infested, what kind of stringent poisons would they all have to be using on an insane level for that to happen beautifully and perfectly 100% of the time? What effect would that have on the plants, the strains of bugs, and the world? I personally would prefer vendors to diagnose as needed, in a measured fashion, and have a few outbreaks from time to time than have us all bogged down with hyper-resistant mealie populations down the line. Yes, we should police irresponsible vendors, but if Joni is an extremist on the responsibility continuum, it's that she worries more than other people about behaving ethically and responsibly. And for the record, I've cleared my 100 plant milestone with Joni and I've never had a pest of any kind. Some of the boxes have been dented here and there but not to a degree that damaged any of the fastidiously packed plants inside.
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Speaking of squashes (and s. bugs)
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I had lots of honeybees, bumblebees and hummingbirds on Crimson clover this spring. Of course Crimson clover only stays in bloom for a month, maybe less, then it's gone. After that, I didn't see any more honeybees. I don't know if they're gone gone or just gone to another place. I'd like to succession plant something that will take over after the Crimson clover but what? I just sowed some White Dutch clover, it's a perennial, I've heard they like that. And I sowed some Buckwheat but I didn't have many seeds to start with. About the covering of the squash, I used to cover mine and I'm going to start doing that again next year, as I had a really bad squash bug infestation this year. But I would cover mine from about 10am till dark. If I understand the progression right, squash bugs hatch from eggs that a little yellow butterfly lays on the leaves. I've seen these little butterflies flitting around during the daytime hours. I didn't think they did any egg-laying at night. The flowers seemed to be only open in the early mornings. Once the sun came out, they would close. So pollination must happen in the early morning. It was possible for me to wait till the flowers were closed, then cover. I use old curtain sheers that I buy at garage sales. They last forever. I have some lightweight ReMay and also some black nylon net. I never tried nylon net on squash but you're right, it is hard to handle. I use it to cover berries and grapes to keep the birds out but let the light in. I really hate that bird netting, the birds get tangled up in it and a small dog or a cat can also. The fruit tends to grow through the holes and you knock a lot of unripe fruit off the plant when trying to pick what's ripe. Always a challenge, isn't it? Somebody said that if you plant gourd near your squash, it will repel the insects that like the squash. This year I had Nest Egg gourd, which has seed that is teardrop shaped, and Dipper Gourd, which has the traditional rectangular seeds that are a little knobby on each corner. What I found interesting was that the squash bugs LOOOOOVED that nest egg gourd. They started out on that and some Seminole Pumpkin, which they killed off right away. Then they progressed to the zucchini, yellow squash, and the melons. But they never bothered the dipper gourds. And they can fly, they can get all over the place once they're adults. And I think they must bear young as well as hatching from butterfly eggs. So once you've got 'em, you've got 'em. I noticed that they still hung out under the dead Nest egg gourd vines, there were a few gourds still hanging and they'd practically cover those gourds. I'd go out with a rag every morning and every afternoon and kill them by quickly wrapping the rag around the gourd. They are soooo gross. I had brought some of the gourds I picked and laid them on the patio and they were all over THOSE too. I tried Bt, I tried Spinosad, both supposed to kill anything that nibbles on the plant, to no avail. I even tried spraying them with hair spray. For awhile I was thinking about planting Nest Egg gourd to use as a trap crop but now I realize that's not the smart thing to do since they can spread to everything else from there. Best to spend the extra time and not let those eggs get laid on the leaves to begin with than to have to fight them all summer. I don't know what time of year the butterfly quits laying eggs. Is it ever? I've seen it, or what I thought was it, 'way into late summer. Well, that's my two cents, if it's even worth that. What we need is some beneficial insect that loves squash bugs. ;) --Ilene
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anniesgranny
15 years ago
John, try rotenone. It's a much friendlier bug killer than Ortho BBG. If you want winter squash, plant Waltham butternut, which is resistant to the SVB.

Granny

Here is a link that might be useful: Annie's Kitchen Garden
engineeredgarden
15 years ago
John, have you thought about planting a trap crop away from your main garden? That way, you could just use it as bait, and really apply the chemicals to it.

EG
jbest123
Original Author
15 years ago
All the edu-ag information I can find says that anything less than spraying pesticides is ineffective for the SB. They go so far as to name products and that Sevin is somewhat effective but BBG is the only one that will do the job. The research may have been paid by an Ortho grant, I do not know. I fell like rabbit, they violated my garden and they will pay with there lived. All of them.

Granny, I grow the Butterbush, it is a smaller Butternut about 1 Â½ lb. I, my wife, and the SBs love them.

EG, like I said above, I want to kill all of them not some. I hope I put them on the extinct list.

John

Here is a link that might be useful: Johns Journal
sinfonian
15 years ago
If BBG is the best product out there and EG's squish-'em method won't work, then grab a BM and sticket to those SBs. Hehe enough acronyms for ya?

Seriously, I am organic to a point. If nothing else works, then I use what does, though chemicals are normally the last resort. I know you're retired and all, but you have better things to do than squish 1,000s of bugs.

Good luck! Nuke 'em.
anniesgranny
15 years ago
John, everything you ever wanted to know about controlling squash vine borers can be found in the following link.

Here is a link that might be useful: Squash Vine Borer: Organic Controls
jbest123
Original Author
15 years ago
Granny, until recently I was totally organic in the garden. When I would have an infestation of some kind, the organic correction was only marginally successful. I do not know if it was just me or my location or what. I wish these various links would define what they mean when they say "control". I assume they mean that you bring the population down to an acceptable level. To me an acceptable level is one, either male or female but not both. I see my only options right now as being, use BBG or not growing squash for a couple of years. I am so upset over this that I am going to have an IT instead of a BM. Ok so I told one little lie. :o)

John

Here is a link that might be useful: Johns Journal
anniesgranny
15 years ago
OK, John...what's an IT? Itty-bitty Trickle?

Granny

Here is a link that might be useful: Annie's Kitchen Garden
jbest123
Original Author
15 years ago
Granny, I thought you would be the first one to catch on. I as in Iced and T as in tea. What is this world coming to?

John

p.s. Tell your son that all good people are named John.

Here is a link that might be useful: Johns Journal
anniesgranny
15 years ago
John, I meant to say Itsy-bitsy Tinkle....that just seemed to go with BM ;-)

With you it would probably be a LIIT.

My first husband was John, Mr. H is John and son is John....all were/are good men.

Granny

Here is a link that might be useful: Annie's Kitchen Garden
jbest123
Original Author
15 years ago
Ok,Ok what the hell is LIIT?

John

Here is a link that might be useful: Johns Journal
anniesgranny
15 years ago
Long Island Iced Tea

1 part vodka
1 part 1800Â® Tequila
1 part rum
1 part gin
1 part triple sec
1 1/2 parts sweet and sour mix
1 splash Coca-ColaÂ®

Mix ingredients together over ice in a glass. Pour into a shaker and give one brisk shake. Pour back into the glass and make sure there is a touch of fizz at the top. Garnish with lemon.

Here is a link that might be useful: Annie's Kitchen Garden
jbest123
Original Author
15 years ago
Granny, cripe I would be out in the garden with an arm around the shoulders of squadh bugs singing Bring on the squash. :o)

John

Here is a link that might be useful: Johns Journal
anniesgranny
15 years ago
Or maybe you could spray it on the squash bugs. It would either kill 'em or make them your very best friends.

Granny

Here is a link that might be useful: Annie's Kitchen Garden
liisa_rwc
15 years ago
Oh LIIT... I haven't had one of those in over 20 years! Back in the day my limit was three... only because the bartender would cut you off at three :-) probably a good thing!

John, Good luck with the SB's

Liisa

Here is a link that might be useful: Liisa's Garden Journey

Squash bugs or (U)squash(/U) bugs or (S) use Ortho Bug Be Gone(/S

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