That is what I normally use. It reduces the chance of slicing a lily bulb. However, they are still too wide. I have been on the lookout for a narrower one (like 3 tines wide instead of 4), but I don't know if such a thing is made. In my bulk pack of rubber bands, I found some very thin and wide ones. Like 5-6 inches in diameter: pretty useless for around the house, but just great to ID a clump of daffodils. So I have all the clusters I want to dig out marked now, and until I can get to it, it is quite unobtrusive. Boy, that was a snap (joke, yes, but true, too) : I gathered the leaves together, slipped it over the top, and slid it down to the base.

I can't tell you how large a planting area you need but a 1200sf garden should be able to grow a LOT of produce, especially if you do succession plantings of fast crops likes greens and peas. I grew up with a much smaller dedicated vegetable garden than that and my folks canned and froze a lot of what we grew. There were 6 of us in my family. You might want to look into 'square foot gardening' for intensive planting in a smaller area. How much soil/compost you will need will depend entirely on how large the garden area is you decide upon. You will have to determine that before you know how much to add. If doing raised beds, it's pretty easy to calculate the volume each will contain (multiply the length x width x depth). If open beds, you'll need at least 6" of soil, more if you want to grow any root crops. Remember to keep the units the same - 6" = .5'. If you were going with the 30'x40' garden area again to a depth of 6", you'd need 600 cubic feet of soil or about 22.5 cubic yards. That's assuming you have no existing soil at your disposal. Here is a link that might be useful: square foot gardening

Hi everyone, Thanks for the kind and thoughtful messages. eaglesgarden, My husband said, with a big smile, "send pictures of trees" (little joke :-)) Thanks rachel597 ,tessyrue ( good links, very interesting, like to have that on the deck) and crystabel (thanks for the link also) My dh has it almost done. I've been taking pictures. I'll try to figure out how to post one. He's a good builder, had to deal with slope of yard away from house. (compound angle) Wanted everything level and square. This thing is heavy duty. I'll be so old when it falls apart, I'll have forgoten what it is for! It's really important to us that it looks good too, since it is next to the patio with beautiful flowers.A huge trellis with flowering vines that covers the whole patio. Also the sun room is right next to the patio. Where we spend allot of time. Looks like we will go with sand in the bottom 12" and mels mix in the top. I just can't find any compost other than cow manure. I have the peat and vermiculite I need. Although I called Menard's and sounds like they have one compost that is a couple different kinds mixed together. I think he mentioned marine compost. I have seeds already. I got most of them from Le Jardin du Gorumet. You can get sample packets for 35cents, and different sizes of larger packets. So, you can get just a few seeds, cheap, Just the number you need rather than a 3 or 5$ packet with way more seeds than you need. If you are growing for just one or two people, or just want to try something new. I got 29 different packs of vegtable and herb seed for a few cents over 16$ And that was with four larger packs of the dollar size, and the rest sample size. I only got eight packs of seeds for that at a local store. They have allot of seeds from France and Italy. For example I got a turnip Shogon & De Milan Rouge. And Haricot Dolique pole bean. Interesting chicory, Rouge de Trivese. Great names, eh? three different kinds of beets, 2 kinds of chard, three diff kinds of cucumbers, 3 diff kinds of carrots, etc. I'm pretty exicited. And I ordered four tomatoe plants and pepper plants from Seed Savers Exchange. Amish paste was one, can't remember the rest. Jeannie

Hey aztomn (I take it that is Arizona to Minnesota???) What a difference in growing conditions. I live in Northeastern MN...right in the arrowhead region that people see on the national news as having the coldest weather in,say, January...lol first year doing sfg. Mel's mix is the ONLY way to go. Planted broccoli in sfg and the leftovers in a 1/2 barrel. No contest. Frisbee size compared to golf ball size. Initial start up in dollars may seem prohibitive, but with substantially larger harvests (think equivalent price per pound at the grocery store) and less back breaking work (your time in dollars per hour) it pays for itself in my opinion. I just picked another small basket of snow peas an hour ago. My 3 y/o twin grandsons love going down to the garden and picking packman broccoli or peas. Soon carrots and tomatoes. I too made mine narrower. 3 x 12. Mine is concrete blocks, two courses high so I can sit on the edge and plant, weed, harvest. I have more weeds, but I think they are from some of the compost and then dandilion and maple spinner seeds blowing in. Very easy to pull out. I am already planning for another sfg next year. Think I will ask my local landscape store to order the coarse Vermiculite for me. The only had medium this year, but it worked out fine. You can see how we built our garden at the sfg web site and user upnorthgardener. Good luck and keep us updated. Lori