Birds are a nuisance in my garden when my plants are young. They will pull up or peck off all my seedlings if I don't cover everything with bird netting. Now that things are established, my netting is gone. I see them hopping around the beds, but they don't bother anything. I've never had them peck at my tomatoes, but I've heard from people who think they do. So...take your pick. I do have a bird bath in my garden. I don't keep it full at planting time, as I don't care to encourage them until my plants are big enough to handle having them around. As for putting feeders in your garden, on the opposite side of my house I have an actual bird garden, with several feeders, another bird bath, and shrubs and trees planted specifically with a bird habitat in mind. I absolutely love it--it's the view out my kitchen window. But the birds make a MESS. The area needs to be kept clean, I soak my feeders in a mild bleach solution every couple months. I sweep up and gather the seed shells. Birds carry disease and a poorly kept bird garden can help spread the disease to other birds and humans. The point of all this is that I would never want to put feeders near plants I'm growing for food. A few birds hopping around aren't a big deal, but birds in the volume I get in my bird garden, I wouldn't put anything growing out there in my mouth. They crap on everything. In fact, I garden with gloves and wash my hands after I've been out there. I also have to let my feeders stay empty for several days to keep the bird volumes down. I love them, but when there's a plentiful supply of food for a long period of time, it turns into an Alfred Hitchcock movie out there. Personally, if you're looking for something that eats bugs, I'd try encouraging other beneficial insects by planting marigolds, nasturtiums and other "gardeny" type flowers. And, of course, keep the use of pesticides down.

The length of sun exposure will be greatest in your 2nd photo. You want the angle towards the south. In your home, windows facing the north get little sun, while the east and west ones get longer sun and the south windows get the longest period of sun. The angle of the sun is more direct coming in from the south for a longer period of time. ~tom

I think it would be best to explain what a "good posting" is by showing an example, and then breaking it down and showing "why" it is good. Let's pretend that "Gardener_Jane" has made a post that she has seeds to offer for trade. The following is her post: "Here's my list! All these seeds came from plants that were Winter Sown or reseeded in my garden. They are all hardy, beautiful, and easy to grow". *Perennials* Aquilegia (columbine, grape colored flowers) Aquilegia mix (columbines, nice selection from my garden) Asclepias Incarnata (swamp milkweed, pink flowers, will grow in dry dirt) Campanula Latifolia (mountain bells, purple flowers) Campanula Medium (Canterbury bells...nice mix) Coreopsis Mix (1'-2' mix of strong golden flowers) Hibiscus Militaris (halberd-leaved marshmallow) Inula Helenium (inula) Pennisetum alopecuroides 'Moudry' (fountain grass "black moudry") Tanacetum Parthenium (feverfew) Tanacetum Vulgare (common tansy) Vernonia Gigantea (giant ironweed) *Annuals* Cerise Celosia (celosia...candle type, cherry pink flowers) Cosmos Sulphureus (bright lights cosmos) Daneborg Lace poppy (papaver somniferum, red and white flowers) Morning Glories (lavender) Nicandra Physaloides (aka shoo fly, apple of Peru, black pod) Nicotiana Rustica (Aztec tobacco, greenish-yellow flowers) Nigella (blue flowers, nice for drying...weird pods!) *Veggies and Herbs* Italian Parsley Bok Choy Ruby Beets Bright Lights Swiss Chard Soldier Beans (12 seeds per pack) I'm looking to trade for other flower varieties I can Winter Sow in my zone seven garden. I am also interested in growing oriental veggies, ornamental grasses, and roses from seeds. I usually mail seeds out within 48 to 72 hours after making a trade, and I send my seeds protected with bubblewrap. I'd like you to do the same for me please. If you need to make other arrangements all it takes is an email...I'm very flexible. Thanks for looking at my list! Gardener_Jane Okay! Great post Jane ;-) Let's break it down to see exactly why Jane's post IS good: "Here's my list! All these seeds came from plants that were winter sown or reseeded in my garden. They are all hardy, beautiful, and easy to grow." Jane gives some vital introductory information. Her seeds are hardy for Winter Sowing, and she says they're lovely and easy to grow. ----------- *Perennials* Aquilegia (columbine, grape colored flowers) Aquilegia mix (columbines, nice selection from my garden) Asclepias Incarnata (swamp milkweed, pink flowers, will grow in dry dirt) Campanula Latifolia (mountain bells, purple flowers) Campanula Medium (Canterbury bells...nice mix) Coreopsis Mix (1'-2' mix of strong golden flowers) Hibiscus Militaris (halberd-leaved marshmallow) Inula Helenium (inula) Pennisetum alopecuroides 'Moudry' (fountain grass "black moudry") Tanacetum Parthenium (feverfew) Tanacetum Vulgare (common tansy) Vernonia Gigantea (giant ironweed) *Annuals* Cerise Celosia (celosia...candle type, cherry pink flowers) Cosmos Sulphureus (bright lights cosmos) Daneborg Lace poppy (papaver somniferum, red and white flowers) Morning Glories (lavender) Nicandra Physaloides (aka shoo fly, apple of Peru, black pod) Nicotiana Rustica (Aztec tobacco, greeny-yellow flowers) Nigella (blue flowers, nice for drying...weird pods!) *Veggies and Herbs* Italian Parsley Bok Choy Ruby Beets Bright Lights Swiss Chard Soldier Beans (12 seeds per pack) Janes list is organized well, it's in ABC order, and she's included both the common and botanical names of the plants. "Soldier Beans (12 seeds per pack)" Jane lets us know that this seed pack contains just a dozen seeds because the count is under the GardenWeb suggested miniumum seedpack amount of 24 (two dozen) seeds. "I'm looking to trade for other flower varieties I can Winter Sow in my zone seven garden. I am also interested in growing oriental veggies, ornamental grasses, and roses from seeds." Jane has suggested what she would like to trade for. She does NOT state that she is ONLY LOOKING FOR THOSE SEEDS so she may be open to other suggestions....you can still initiate a trade even if you don't have what she's looking for and she'll either say yes or no. Never take a trade decline personally. Jane may have a small garden so she only has room for her favorites. "I usually mail seeds out within 48 to 72 hours after making a trade, and I send my seeds protected with bubblewrap. I'd like you to do the same for me please. If you need to make other arrangements all it takes is an email...I'm very flexible." Jane is letting us know what she does and what she expects. "Thanks for looking at my list!" Okay....Jane is friendly and she seems to know how to trade. Initiating a trade with Jane will be a good trade experience.

Well, my point about relevance was that if you really know what's in your greywater, you're certain that plants should be able to tolerate it, and that it isn't a septic hazard, conversations about how to manage gardening over what is essentially sewage flow in a septic tank drainage field doesn't really contribute a lot. If I am careful about what is in my greywater, it's hard to understand how its use could be disadvantageous for vegetable growing. As I keep saying, it's really about what is in your greywater. Thank you Marianne. That is very interesting about regulations against using greywater. I guess I was only vaguely aware of that. That is certainly a more pertinent issue. It must be a matter of trusting the homeowner to know what is really grey and what is not, and some municipalities don't. As in, how dark a shade of grey. Now, I can imagine that stuff that comes out of dishwashers and clothes washers could, under some circumstances, when used by environmentally clueless folks, be truly environmentally hazardous waste. Now, how is it justified that rainwater collection from a rooftop is illegal in Nevada? Seems to me that if you don't collect it, it's just going to end up in the soil anyway. That regulation is about timing, rather than pollution.