Jim I have some of the knockout roses and they do get b/s spot on them if I don't spray them but not as bad as other roses do. The first year I had my roses I did not take spraying serious enough and I lost just about all my leaves to b/s and spider mites. This year I when by the book with a good spray program and so for my roses are healthy looking. I use Penthathlon DF to kill b/s and Honor Guard to prevent it and I spray every 10-14 days.
Hope this might help you.
Check this out.

http://www.rosemania.com/

This is a double red K/O that I have growing in 20 gal. pot this it's second year

{{gwi:1272926}}

Harold, I always wondered if you guys wear masks or something over your nose and mouth while spraying for B/S???

That Knockout looks big for being in a pot...LOL

Our roses are widely spaced right now , so, blackspot has not been a problem. Platinum had 8 B/S leaves I took off yesterday. That's the first time since planted in July 07 that it's got any blackspot.

I'll check out your link! Thanks!

JIM

Found these type of caterpillars stuck fast to Bonfires older leaves today. They were eating away...LOL
They are 1/4" or so long, green body color with a orange/brown face.
The only real troubling insects I have found here this season, seem to be mostly different types of caterpillars.
I could not find those netting things you were talking about Harold. We checked at Walmart so far.

I looked this insect up and it is a rose slug.

{{gwi:329199}}

LET ME ALONE, I'M NOT READY TO GET UP YET!

{{gwi:1272927}}

JIM I do wear a respirator when I spray. While I hate spraying I do like to seeing healthy foliage on my plants. As one famious rose grower put it first grow the leaves an the blooms will follow.
Love you cat.
Here's picture of roses in pots growing down my driveway they are setting on large river rocks I have on grass anywhere in my yard
LOL Harold

I figured you wore a respirator when spraying. That would be the best thing to do.

You grow roses everywhere...LOL...Will they later be planted into the ground? Or permantly grown in the pots?

I see you live in Florida, I hear alot of people say it's tough to grow roses in Florida, so, you are doing something right...LOL

JIM

Harold, how long do those Cartridges and Pre-filters last in those respirator masks.
I should get one.

JIM

Jim I replace the filters twice a year, bought my mask at Home Depot and they have replacement filters to fit them for about $14-$15. you see down here I spray all year long the foliage never leaves the bushes, as a matter of fact when I did my spring prunning in mid Feb. I had to pull off what old foliage was left after prunning.
As for the roses in the pots that's where they will stay, after about three years they will have to be trimed back and the root ball trimed as well and repoted in the same pots. Last year I was blessed with a few roses at Chirstmas.

Harold, I will buy a mask. But, I will not be using it as much as you have to use yours, so , i'll probably will only need 1 filter per season.

I'm going to let our roses somewhat fend for themselves, so, I can see which ones need sprayed and which ones do not, then go from there and make the proper adjustments.

Thanks for all your info!

JIM

Jim that seems like a good game plan to me I think sometimes we are to quick to rush into things. I have found that roses are tough and make a come back for a lot of adversity.LOL
Harold

HAROLD, just wondering, do you grow distant drums?
How do you like it, if you do?

------------------------------------------------------------

Flash that camera in my eyes one more time and i'll Karate chop ya!

No JIM I don't grow Distant Drums, but acording to the ARS hand book it is rated at an 8.0 so it should be a good rose to have.LOL
Harold

PS: love that cat.

Well, I got a e-mail from the vendor where I purchased Precious Platinum. They said, when I severely pruned those canes late this summer, it probably weakened the rose abit and thus it had less resistance to Blackspot.
I checked today and see no new blackspot on any of the leaves. So, still just 8 leaves, so far have been infected.
I have to move Precious Platinum over 2 1/2 ft next March.
Poor Platinum...LOL

Got an e-mail from Roses Unlimited and they do not carry Judy Garland or Tequila Sunrise. So, will order them from Heirloom Roses next Spring. Want to grow these in pots.
Roses Unlimited does have Precious Platinum in case our other Platinum fails over-winter or from being transplanted next March. Keeping my fingers crossed that Platinum survives all this torture...LOL
------------------------------------------------------------

SHUSSSSH, i'm trying to sleep here, ya know!

{{gwi:1272930}}

Jim, I love your first kitty photo! so cute, and funny caption.

About synthetic fungicides, I'm a bit concerned. Blackspot I feel needs to be managed as natural as possible. The weather is getting ridiculously cold now. If I were you I'd quickly start spraying the rest of your uninfected roses with DrammaticK (this cold weather and decreasing sunlight it should be perfectly fine to use it--- Karl uses fish emulsion for blackspot buffer all the time, maybe you are spraying your foliar spray in the heat of the afternoon? instead of the ideal early morning time or late evening time?) and with Greencure first as a blackspot buffer. You can zap your Platinum with just the Mancozeb if needed. But usually I find that eight infected leaves are usually pretty minor damage. You really need to think of Integrated Pest Management. That's when you use the most safe organic ways first! before you move on to blasting with high-potency chemicals. Synthetic fungicides are highly toxic, and with poor Sue's condition, I worry about these nasty chemicals! you have to be very careful! Clothes always have to be washed right away! Touching doorknobs, all that stuff, so many things to remember when you apply, so many rules, precautions and respirator---again danger, danger zones. Some fungicides zap beneficial insects too. Always read the label and google for toxicology reports. And once you spray synthetic chemicals, that is the END of rose petal jam and other yummy endeavors. Greencure you never have to worry about all this toxicity.

Another side note. The day after I sprayed the synthetic fungicide, Eluane threw up, which is very! unusual for her to do. Perhaps the wind carried the fungicide vapor? was this a coincidence? who knows...This fungicide may be safe for bees, but I have found that every synthetic fungicide has its own set of problems. BannerMax for example affects mammal reproduction, etc. etc. Synthetic fungicides just seem a whole lot more dangerous than organics/Greencure.

serenasyh, for now i'm not going to spray Platinum at all with anything. Platinum seems to be a very hardy rose bush.
Remember it went 07 and 08 with no sprays and remained clean. I really don't want him dependent on strong sprays if he doesn't need them, excluding Drammactic K as it is a nutrient foilage fertilizer, that just happens to be oil based.
I'll keep checking his leaves every-day, but, so far all leaves are blackspot free and it is not spreading.

Next season, i'll plant 3 more roses into the ground and 2 in large pots. These will start getting fertilizer 1 month after planting. Both soil and foilage spraying with Drammactic K. I'm not using harsher sprays for blackspot until I see if they need them or not. I want to see what there natural resistance is to blackspot here in our garden.
Courageous will be treated the same way. I'm mainly using Drammactic K for its nutrient benefit in the soil and on the foilage. If it happens to ward off blackspot, great!

I have purchased Mancozeb from our local feed mill and a respirator mask from Ace Hardware, that way I have them here, if ever needed in the future.

My garden plan is to keep a space of 3ft between each rose for good air circulation.
To keep grass, weeds and other plants ect. away from the roses. Grass, weeds, ect. steal nutrients & water away from roses. I want to try and achieve healthy roses that can naturally fight off blackspot, ect.
Our garden may not have the jungle look I prefer, but, I think the roses will benefit much more this way.

All our roses will be planted in locations that receive sunlight from sunrise to early evening.
There is some spots along the mulched area of the yard more toward the house, that I will have to plant something else in those spots. The house blocks the sun until 10Am-11Am.
I want the sun to hit the roses at sunrise, so, leaves dry as fast as they can. Yes, I know there will be cloudy and lots of rainy days...LOL

I may seem fussy on all this, but, I feel roses need all the help they can get...LOL

I'll be buying some garden items to sit around also, such as birdbaths, frogs climbing a 3ft ladder, you know what I mean...LOL

Every part of the country is different, some have to spray there roses with fungicide or would have to stop growing them.
And my research into products like neem oil has led me to believe it's near worthless. Ours went into the trash!
This research was done through The American Rose Society and the many that have tried and used these products.

Also learned that many fungicides when used, that sooner or later the blackspot becomes immune to them. So, 2 to 3 different products need to be used and rotated during the growing season.

Endless circle...LOL

Also, I may write something here that I never intend to do.
Just my mixed up thoughts at those moments...LOL

What I wrote above is what i'm going to do as i'm thinking quite clearly today...LOL

JIM

------------------------------------------------------------

Here's a pic of Afton: The bugs are having a field day recently. Gotta love it though as it makes the leaves look so much more interesting with all those different designs and shapes...LOL

{{gwi:1272931}}

Jim that is an absolutely wonderful photo of Baby Sweet Ashton! and to think you are thinking of giving her away???? such a lovely and fragranced rose?! I think no way, LOL!

Well, I am very much relieved that you are holding off on the high-potency fungicides until absolutely necessary. You are doing wonderful planning with your roses in getting that full sunlight.

Jim I forgot!!! in my Lumpy Garden post to post photos of Climbing America, LOL! So I had to add new photos to my thread. Hmmm, do you think I've got too many pinks in my garden now? Check out the thread, what do you think of my baby America compared to my Penny Lane?

Our neighbors all have blackspot on there roses, except our one neighbor next door, and she only has one rose bush, but, if you look at how & where the rest of them have them planted, you can see why.
No morning sun, limited sun of only 4-6 hours a day, planted in areas that do not have good air circulation at all, and rose bushes planted to close together on top of all this other stuff. They want to grow roses, but, just do not have the right locations for planting them. Most of them have tried organic spraying, but, with no success. They are afraid to spray the harsher fungicides. My opinion is they should grow something else, because they are screwed!

Now, some climates, you will have to use strong fungicides to grow roses, because you just have no other choice.

Ok, i'm going to your thread now to look at your roses.

JIM

I only spray Drammactic K at 5:00am - 5:30am. Dries quick then.

Drammactic K is not fish emulsion. Fish emulsion has little to no oils in it. Drammactic K fish/kelp products uses a toatally different processing method, and has all the oils in it.

JIM

DRAMMACTIC K: Company information.

For centuries, fish have been recognized as an excellent fertilizer source. For this reason we have developed multiple all natural liquid fish formulas for organic and conventional crop production.

We make our fertilizers from fresh fish carefully processed at low temperatures (under 90°F) to maintain the integrity of naturally occurring amino acids, vitamins, hormones and enzymes. The raw material is then stored in digestion tanks to liquify the product. This method produces a product called a "hydrolysate." (Fig. A.)

Drammatic® fish hydrolysates contain the natural oils and proteins of fish, which break down slowly to become available over a longer period of time.

In contrast, the majority of fish fertilizers on the market today are known as "emulsions." First the fish is cooked and the oil removed for paints and cosmetics. Then the protein is removed and dried to make fish meal for livestock feeds. The remaining wastewater is condensed into a brown, thick liquid called an "emulsion." (Fig. B.)

Jim, I re-answered back on your post about pinks.

Wow, that's dedicated 5:00 a.m.!

Hahahaha! Kitty is maaaad now! hilarious! You know what is strange Jim? for some reason my computer never recognizes your posts until like 3-4 posts later. That 3rd photo of Kitty never showed up on my screen prior. Isn't that weeeeird?

Jim and Serena,

Both of you are constantly refering to this product Drammactic K in your posts, you two wouldn't happen to work in the sales dept of this company, would you? LOL
LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL
Seriously though....does this product work good for bs? Now lets hear that sales pitch.......hehehehe LOL LOL!

No, we don't sell it...lol
This is my first year of trying this fertilizer. I foilage fed our roses with it, along with soil feeding with it.
Actually, i'll have to use it for a couple more years to really see how it does with B/S. So far, so good!
Check back in 2012...LOL

JIM

Ramblinrozez, LOL! well I'm even more fanatical about saying that Gardenville Sea Tea is my absolute favorite rose fertilizer! but I think that DrammaticK seems like a real good foliar buffer. Karl the rosarian likewise uses fish emulsion as a blackspot buffer but you see I get to see Jim's leaves and they look so glossy and healthy. I haven't used any! foliar sprays this year but have vowed to try Jim's for 2010 and to keep my Gardenville as the actual fertilizer part. You should have seen me 3 months ago. I was saying how Gardenville rescued my Gemini tree rose from an ice storm and 2 horrific transplants, one of which I lost 2/3rds of the feeder roots and over 1/3 of the anchor roots. As you can tell that tree rose went on to survive and give me the prettiest blooms in spite of my Dumb Dumb ways! hahahaha!

JIM, here, a full picture of that knock-out rose growing in its pot. And afew other things I'm growing.

{{gwi:1272932}}

Ichabod Eggplant

THAT cat is cracking me up. HA HA HA
Harold

Harold, how tall is that knockout bush? Those blooms look smaller than the blooms on my friends knockout pink.
What size do those blooms get on your red?

Never seen a eggplant before. Does that get flowers on it?
------------------------------------------------------------

serenasyh, did you know that your gardenville sea tea has a blend of fish emulsion in it?

I actually use everything that is in your gardenville sea tea, but, mine are all in separate products. LOL

Start on the left is Drammactic K fish/kelp ( 2-5-1 blend)

Then, Alaska MORBLOOM, (which I haven't tried yet) It is a
(0-10-10) blend for stimulating budding and blooming/ rich colorful flowers and also promotes vigorous root growth. It has no nitrogen in it.

Third is Sea Magic Seaweed.

Fourth is SoilSyrup which I have been using for 4 years now.
It provides a source of rich humus into the soil. Worms love this stuff...lol

{{gwi:1272934}}

JIM, I meausured that knock-out rose an the bush itself is 5ft. And the blooms or alittle over 2.5 inch.
The eggplant has purple blooms on it. This is the first time growing this variety but it woun't be the last, I,ve harvested over 30 eggplants off of it.

I don't know If I mention that two weeks ago I order 10 more roses a mix of minis & mini-floras. They said that they would ship the first week in Dec.
Harold

Well thanks Serena and Jim, I think I will stick with what I am using, RoseTone and Bayer Disease Control Spray. I'm beginning to believe roses grow pretty well on their own with not us throwing all these chemicals at them. My neighbor across the street has a rose bush that he never even looks at, doesn't water, fertilize, spray or prune and that thing comes back every year with blooms and good foliage. I think we pamper our roses sometimes too much.

Ramblinrozez I can guarantee my Gardenville is the all-in-one, which is why I use it, Jim. I know it has fish emulsion, compost tea (probably alfalfa), seaweed, all the goodies. I don't have to get all those combinations. It makes everything complete for a rose dummy like myself who doesn't have time to make all these homemade mixes. However my interest in DrammaticK as a foliar is because! it uses raw fish oils instead of being cooked out as an emulsion and I'm thinking the oil and sodium is hostile to blackspot.

RamblinRozez, Karl the rosarian and other specialized rose gardeners do swear by fish emulsion and alfalfa as what roses truly love best!!! They grow exhibition flowers and do rely on those nutrients as well. I use Rosetone, but it does only a itsy-bitsy fraction of what my Powerhouse Gardenville does. Every time I do my feedings I see immediate results! (huge burst of new growth).

Also Ramblinrozez, it depends on what kind of roses you have. Hybrid Teas demand!!!! specialized feedings. Your neighbor probably has that knockout. Please Harold and Jim forgive me for saying this but what really bothers me about knockouts is that bees don't care for them and they have absolutely no fragrance. Knockouts are everywhere! and sort of hamper the variety of roses we encounter. They are found in every single apartment complex, in front of every fast food restaurant, across every neighborhood placard), in the malls. They're like the the Walmart of roses instead of visiting a boutique store. It's like eating a Big Mac instead of fine dining at a special-occasion restaurant. So again to each his own. LOL! Both have their own purposes. Harold I will gush and gush over your absolutely lovely roses except for the knockout, hee-hee. So Jim you can reach out and smack me on the head, hee-hee!

ramblinrosez7b,

Rose tone and plant tone work good for roses and the bayer product your using is also good for what it is intended for.

Our neighbor has one rose bush and they cut it near to the ground every 5 years. Other than that, no pruning or dead-heading. They do not water or fertilize it either. That thing blooms all summer long and gets no diseases.
I have lived here for 16 years and that thing is still going strong.
Also I know people who prune with hedge clippers. They cut the bush in half or alittle more and it grows back and looks great!

------------------------------------------------------------

Harold, we prefer a 3" - 5" sized bloom. The knockout pink must have larger sized blooms than the red. Hummmm, weird...LOL
30 eggplants...LOL...Take a pic of it in bloom sometime.
Whats the blooming period for eggplants?

JIM

JIM

serenasyh,that's the point I was trying to make about your sea tea. It has everything already included in it.

LOL...on the knock-outs. There everywhere because they are low maintainance roses. Some rose society members praise them because they have got people interested in roses again.
Knockouts will grow in more shaded areas, require no spraying in many areas, no dead-heading required, ect.
This raises the bar for other rose breeders to bring out better disease resistant roses. I think it's a good thing.

FERTILIZER: My research is telling me that Alfalfa tea is a really great addition to use for roses, along with some type of fertilizer included in with the tea.

serenasyh, I think rose tone and plant tone are basically good fertilizers. Most fertilizers are good if used correctly. They have made recent improvements in the tone products, I think.

I think what's happening is your sea tea has humic acid (humus) in it, which helps plants take up the nutrients better.

JIM

Don't know if any of you have seen that thread on dead-heading roses in the other forum or not.

Some are saying they dead-head there roses into the fall and that it doesn't matter. I was telling my wife about this and she told me, while growing up they had roses and dead-headed up to November to bring flowers into the house with no harm to the rose bushes.
They always came back after winter.

If Platinum makes it through the winter and from being transplanted next March, i'm going to test this theory with Platinum next season.
Maybe we are fussing over our roses too much! LOL

JIM

Hee-hee, rosetone is decent but it's not super-hero magic! like Gardenville tee-hee! Thanks, Jim; I realize what you were trying to help in listing Gardenville's rose-yummey ingredients; I was just trying to do the hard-sales pitch to RamblinRozez, heheh! I was describing it as the All-In-One favorite fertilizer that I lucked out on finding first-hand at my local nursery.

Harold I can't wait to see your minis! That eggplant also looks very much like the Japanese kind of eggplants (elongated). Yummy, yummy, yummy! Arrrgh, Jim not you too! all this talk of knockout is knocking me out (making me faint)hahahaha!

Please, pass me the eggplants instead, LOL! my tummy's rumbling I love eggplants.

Jim, yes! Fish emulsion, alfalfa (tea, and that Gardenville are far superior powerhouses, compared to Rosetone. Yes, Rosetone is decent but it doesn't work anywhere the magic that Fish emulsion, Gardenville and alfalfa(tea) does.
Jim, I should have clarified alfalfa tea, alfalfa pellets being used for that concoction. Again, Gardenville makes my life so easy by combining all the stuff for me!

serenasyh, you must really hate knockouts...LOL
Personally, I was looking at them, but, the blooms are to small and they do not offer a good variety of colors.
But, I still think they serve a good purpose for being on the market. LOL

serenasyh, you didn't comment on my dead-heading post above.
What's your thought?

JIM

I was out looking at Bonfire (potted rose) this morning and it's leaves are in terrible shape. Rose slugs have turned some leaves into skeletons. The cold 40 degrees temps last couple of nights have not helped it either...LOL

We can't find that netting stuff around here that Harold recommended for putting over the small bonfire rose/or blooms,so, hopefully the bugs will ease up here soon.

JIM

Sorry, Jim! I haven't been online hardly at all! and have gotten so little sleep. I had some sudden freelancing design rush-deadlines, and am really battling my car insurance, one lady is so nice (the one estimating my car) the other lady is really, really mean-spirited (the one investigating the case)! Jim I'm in big trouble, I truly hope the police report will convince that insurance person that I was completely not at fault. She wants to blame me as being partially responsible because I was "the reckless one" for swerving too much when the speeding car ran into my lane and that I over-reacted and thus lost control of my car. Can you believe this???? I am both horrified and worried about my insurance raising my premium. It is so unjust. I had to swerve because I was trapped between 2 cars, the speeding car and the innocent driver to my immediate left. Had I not swerved, the other driver would have been hit, and it was because of my swerving both cars emerged unscathed. The police report has to be solid enough to assign the blame totally on the driver that fled the scene and not on me. I am sick with worry about this incident. I have a lot of stress right now...so many financial worries.

But back to our garden, yes, I think deadheading is fine! Jim go to a regular fabric store. They have tons! of netting. Just buy a section of the fabric then cut out sections of it and tie it around your blooms with some yarn. Or you can buy a ream of it and wrap your entire bonfire with it to protect it against beetles. But remember! netting only works for beetles. Rose slugs you have to kill with Safer insecticidal soap, which is still classified as organic. Canola oil or PAM will also work but they may take longer to kill. Insecticidal soap is pretty much immediate.