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Strybing Salvia 'Don's Big Red'

12 years ago

I bought an unusual salvia yesterday at the S.F. Botanical Garden. The propagator told me it's been in the garden 'forever', and no one is sure what it is. They call it "Don's Big Red", after Don Mahoney.

It's currently flowering in its 1 gallon pot. Nearly 6 feet tall, with heart shaped light green leaves that are very similar to a S. gesneraeflora. The stems are square, *very* hairy, thick and bicolored (maroon on one side, green on other). The calyces are likewise bicolored (match the stems), and the flowers are red and not very big. The infloresences remind me of a S. coccinea Forest Fire.

Odd plant, but I like it! I will try and get some photos, also keep on the lookout for seed.

Comments (5)

rich_dufresne
12 years ago
How do the flower sizes compare to S. grewifolia, S. miniata, ans other tall red sages? Have you run through Robin's site for as close a match as you can find?

Also, have you finished relocating yet?

I managed to get an early order in for rare Salvia seed, and hope I will have some really nifty ones to report on about a year from now.
robinmi_gw
12 years ago
Have a look on my site for Salvia PW 248, especially the 2nd picture. Could this be it? It was tentatively named Salvia miahuatlanensis, from where it was found, but has still not been identified!! Mine is huge, in the greenhouse, and just starting to flower. Very hairy and sticky stems. If it is this and you grow it outside somewhere frost-free, do be careful as stems can collapse and root all along the ground, it did that here once, but the frost killed it!

Robin.
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Hi Skrip, We had an 'Indigo Spires' that I finally had to take out when its span reached 9 feet wide. :-) But you can keep it MUCH narrower by cutting out a lot of the side branches. That's what my parents' neighbors do.... they have a fairly sparse one in a narrow spot in front of their house, always blooming and never too big. I think they must cut it often. If you don't want to have to cut it a lot, I'd allow at least 5-6 feet. We have a large S. chiapensis in our front yard, at least 5 feet wide, maybe 4 feet tall. Now, if I had had a chance to cut it down in late winter, it may never get that big. If you cut it down every year it would probably get to 3x3. This one is very happy in dappled shade, especially where it gets watering from lawn sprinklers. It likes "cloud forest" conditions. Our neighbor has a grouping of 3 'Hot Lips' and I'd say each one reaches at least 4' wide. You know, here in our zone, we have to allow a much bigger span and height then elsewhere because our growing season is so much longer. Oh, and we also have pineapple sage (S. elegans). Do you mean the dwarf ('Honey Melon'), or the species which is bigger? We have both. The big one gets about 5 feet tall x 4 feet wide and grows in quite a bit of shade, mostly dappled, and blooms quite well there. I'm thinking of putting a cutting on the north side of the house and to see how it does there too. It can take more sun. The dwarf plant is a low-growing/spreading ground cover that reached about 5 feet wide before I took it out and put it in a pot. I've had fun experimenting with the Salvias in different parts of the yard because they root so easily from just a cutting stuck in the ground. A few years ago I stuck a cutting of Salvia regla on the north side of the house. It took off and has profusely bloomed for two years. It's about 7 feet tall now. Also stuck a cutting of S. greggii on the north side last year, in a spot a little shadier than where S. regla is, and wetter because it gets less sun. It bloomed last year, it survived a VERY wet winter in heavy wet clay in the shade, and now it has buds!!! At most it will get a few hours of morning sun in the summer. Jen
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Voodoobrew, this is the strangest Salvia. I am now getting the same kind of blooms you mention....a mix of all white, white with just a tiny spot of red on the lip, red, bicolor, what next? Maybe it will have stripes. It certainly is not consistent, is it? I am wondering if it is a seedling variation? I know it is supposed to sport some solid red and solid white when the weather heats up, but while this is interesting to say the least, it is certainly not what I expected. Susan
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As I've found the greggii labels to not always be very accurate, I am just saying how mine were labeled by the nurseries and they have not been verified by an expert. I'm not a collector, but I use a lot of salvias for the long boom season. All of mine are in bloom right now and have been blooming well since May. I am growing a few of the red greggii in part sun. The ones labeled 'cherry queen' are growing under a crape myrtle on the south west side of the house and doing great. They don't get morning sun, but get midday to afternoon sun. For almost three years now, the ones labeled 'Navajo red' are protected from afternoon sun by a large weeping willow. I thought I had lost those from our snows this winter. I cut back 4 of the 5 to the basal foliage and they have now caught up with the 1 that I left alone. The greggii varieties that are getting 8-10 hours of sun in my garden are 'Diane', 'Texas Wedding', 'Dark Dancer' and one that BB just had labeled as 'Autumn Sage' that is a hot pink color. Cameron
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Hey voodoo, This Salvia (sim. elegans)was definitely NOT cinnabarina - that one ran all over like mad. I don't know the ins and outs of why this particular elegans-like Salvia couldn't be named definitively. I know it has a long blooming period, unlike proper elegans, and a shorter, finer habit. I trust Don Mahoney absolutely to be on top of the nomenclature, though, so I suppose it still hasn't been identified. Strybing had 2 pulchella forms when I was there. The regular one forms a big thicket (10' high, and wider), has medium green leaves, and I think flowers a bit more, on spikes of several whorls. The one called "Cabrillo form" (provenance = Cabrillo College) is shorter, has larger lime-ish green leaves, and the fls only appear two at a time. (I planted one at my neighbor's in Oakland, since I hadn't seen it in the Arboretum...it's blooming better as it matures, and seems to want to stay 4 feet high by 7 wide.) There was also a pulchella X karwinskii (you said you have that one?) and I think another X with involucrata.
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robinmi_gw
12 years ago
Also 4 photos of this in the galeria on Rolando's site
www.salvias.com.ar he uses the name miahuatlanensis.

Robin.
voodoobrew
Original Author
12 years ago
I don't think it's either of those, though it looks similar. This one has more maroon color in the stems and calyces. Mine is tall, though at Strybing I believe it does tend to be more lax. This is a fall/ winter bloomer, with virtually no scent.

Richard, I am still in the process of moving, ugh! The renovations are taking much longer than I had hoped. Moving my plant collection is an enormous task. I need to get your grewiifolia? seed [what Strybing calls pulchella] into the mail, I know!

FYI, Strybing is now in possession of a few plants of the new madrensis x gesneraeflora Cabrillo hybrid, so I'm guessing it should be 'on the market' fairly soon.

Let's see if posting photos works...

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rich_dufresne
12 years ago
I've got quite s few Salvias in my greenhouse in bloom, and hope to do some crosses - if the plants feel like it, since they are adapting to the greenhouse. If I had better temperature regulation, I'd be more confident in getting results.

S. grewifolia is from Bolivia, S. univerticillata (which many people still know as pulchella) is from Chiapas (I think) or some nearby location in Mexico or Guatemala. It has fruity fragrant foliage like S. dorisiana.

Tal red salvias with many greggii-sized flowers are relatively unusual

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