Cocoa mulch at pH 5.8 was perfect to induce rust on Evelyn. The roses which I don't mulch, don't have rust either with my pH 7.7 clay. There's a U. of Nebraska research on rust, with the title, "Medium pH and Leaf Nutrient Concentration Influence Rust Pustule diameter on leaves of dry beans."

Their conclusion: Plants grown in pH 5.8 medium show significantly larger rust pustules than plants grown in pH 6.5 or pH 7.9. Concentrations of Cl (chloride) and Mn (manganese) were more in high rust. In contrast, concentration of K (potassium) were less in high rust. Alabama Agriculture Cotton Research also recommended potassium fertilizer to reduce rust.

Two factors that gave rise to rust in my Evelyn rose: My mulching with cocoa mulch at pH 5.8, and my dumping gypsum (calcium sulfate) around the bush. Too much calcium drives down potassium, necessary for disease-prevention.

Cocoa mulch was great for tomatoes: larger & firmer fruits, and tasty, with its NPK 3-1-4, plus trace elements. No tomato worms either like previous years with chemical fertilizers.

Here is a link that might be useful: University of Nebraska on soil pH and rust

Strawberryhill, thanks for the nice advice. Your roses look great. Whole grain corn meal, I'll have to try that out.

I checked on black spots. The baking soda doesn't seem to be effective, like Ingrid reported. Folks report better luck with Neem oil (also insecticides), and commercial Bordeaux mixture (hydrated lime and copper sulfate).

The Nebraska study of higher potassium in leaves being less susceptible to rust: That makes me wonder if copper content of leaves could be a factor for BS-prevention, considering copper sulfate and lime are in Bordeaux fungicide?

The cheapest foods highest in copper are: sunflower seeds and basil. My next experiment would be to fertilize roses with ground-up raw sunflower seed NPK 2.25, 1.25, 0.79 .... or chopped up Basil, which are plentiful in summer. Chicken manure is also high in copper, zinc, and boron.

There's the #1 potting soil, Professional Ball, with 45% Composted pine fines, peat moss, vermiculite, perlite, lime, and gypsum. As the organics break down, they supply humic acid and nutrients. The tannin in decomposed pine bark, and the lime also serve as fungicide. My Paul Neyron rose was very healthy in that medium.

Here is a link that might be useful: Lime sprays for disease control

This post was edited by Strawberryhill on Mon, Nov 25, 13 at 11:20

I check on tannin as fungicide, and found this in Yahoo!Answers: "Plant Tannins: Tannins are natural substances found in Black Walnut and a vast array of plants. Tannins are what give red wines such as merlots and cabernets their sharp, biting taste. They are also found in the bark of trees that are particularly resistant to fungus such as the redwood tree."

Herbs like Oregano is known for anti-fungal properties. Someone posted a no-manure way to fertilize roses: mulch with mint leaves, high in iron & other nutrients. Mint also keeps deer away.

I didn't realize that the Sage which invades my garden has anti-fungal properties, see excerpt from below link:

"This organic, natural fungicide is quiet simple to make. First, add two thirds of a cup of sage leaves to 1/2 gallon of water and boil it down to 1/3 gallon of water. After this has been done, add 2/3 gallon of red wine. The solution has been proven to prevent and even cure fungus diseases in a variety of crops (as stated in the patent)."

Here is a link that might be useful: Fungicide and science in hydroponics

This post was edited by Strawberryhill on Fri, Oct 4, 13 at 10:24

I'm not the only one who use sugar via molasses to deepen blooms' color. Jim1961 changed the color of his Mr. Lincoln from red to purple by putting sugar in the vase water. See Jim's purple Mr. Lincoln posted in Rose Gallery:

{{gwi:335756}}

Here's an excerpt from previous thread:
RE: This is for Carol, or PortlandMysteryrose

â¢Posted by Strawberryhill 5a IL (My Page) on
Sun, Jun 9, 13 at 14:44

On page 248 of Science book, see link below, in 1908 the Rhode Island Rose society did experiments of cut roses, and they found a 7 to 10% sugar solution improved the appearance of cut roses, plus deepened the colors of the pink varieties.

Which explains why Gardenville Sea Tea with molass deepened the colors of Serena's roses in KS, listed under Organic Honey-bees Garden profile in HMF.

Here is a link that might be useful: 1908 Rhode Island experiment with cut roses."

â¢Posted by PortlandMysteryRose 8 (My Page) on
Sun, Jun 9, 13 at 15:03

"Thank you, Strawberry. My grandmom and mom taught me to use a little sugar and a tiny bit of lemon juice in cut flower vases." Carol.

Here is a link that might be useful: 1908 Rhode Island experiment with cut roses

One of the biggest surprise in my 40 years of gardening is red lava rock, buried into the soil, that released nutrients.

Years ago I tried to stop the pink yarrow root from taking over my center garden. so I dug a trench, and pour bags of red lava rock, then covered it up. It backfired: the pink yarrow bloomed like mad, so did other flowers next to the red-lava rock trench.

Lava rock is used to grow bonsai, and have many nutrients lacking in alkaline clay, such as boron, iron, zinc, copper, sulfate, plus very high in potassium. See the below link on nutrients in red lava rock:

Nitrate Nitrogen.................................4.0 p.p.m.
Phosphorus........................................6.0 p.p.m.
Potassium.........................................59.0 p.p.m.
Zinc.........................................................6 p.p.m.
Iron..................................................10.0+ p.p.m.
Copper...............................................5.5+ p.p.m.
Magnesium.......................................2.0+ p.p.m.
Boron.................................................10.0 p.p.m.
Sulfate.................................................7.0 p.p.m.
Organic Material...........................................5%
PH.........................................................8.2 Units
Calcium..................................1.3 Meq/100 gm*
Manganese...........................0.6 Meq/100 gm*
Sodium...................................0.1 Meq/100 gm*
Cation Exchange Capacity..3.2 Meq/100 gm*

Below is a picture of my garden, when fertilized with lava rock:

Here is a link that might be useful: Nutrients composition of lava rock

This post was edited by Strawberryhill on Mon, Nov 25, 13 at 10:21

Henry_Kuska (Ph.D. in chemistry) posted several links on benefits of silica for plants ... so do folks in Cannabis forum. Silica strengthen cell walls against fungal invasion, helps with drought resistance, and counter-act salt-damage.

I locate the chemical composition of red lava rocks: high in iron, according to Wikipedia.

Info. on pumice: " Rhyolite is light-coloured or white ��" this is a clue that the rock contains a lot of silica (more than 70%) and not much iron or magnesium.

Silica, as in NAPA floor-dry (diatomaceous earth), or Pumice, strengthen cell walls. Cannabis growers testified that NAPA floor-dry is superior to perlite, in producing thicker stems and healthier plants.

Here is a link that might be useful: Types of vocalno rocks

This post was edited by Strawberryhill on Thu, Jan 16, 14 at 10:25

Finally figured out why Peter Schneider in his book "Right rose, Right place" wrote that horse manure induced rose midge. Peter Schneider grows over 1,000 in Ohio sandy & acidic soil.

I could not find much info. on rose midge, so I researched on agricultural midge, or swede midge. Experiments at Cornell University stated, " Laboratory results indicated that extremely dry and extremely wet soil hinders swede midge emergence. Optimal moisture content for swede midge emergence was from 25 ��" 75 %, and varied in different soils." Cornell University recommends crop rotation, but that's not possible with roses.

That explains why I don't have rose midge in my rock-hard clay. My heavy clay is sticky-wet when it's rained, and rock-hard when dry. 15 minutes from me is Cantigny rose park, with 1,200 roses. They use zero mulch, just bare dirt. But when people mulch with bark, or horse manure on a fluffy bedding ... that retains optimal moisture level longer for midge germination.

More from Cornell University: "These results suggest that cultural practices, such as flooding fields during non-cropping periods to achieve 100% soil moisture level or even drying the soil, may be viable methods to reduce swede midge emergence. Similarily, swede midge populations and damage are expected to be REDUCED when saturated soil or drought conditions occur."

eHow recommended that for rose midge, removing the top soil, and putting new soil in late season will stop midge from germinating next year. That's what I do in zone 5a for winter-protection: I dump new soil in late fall, to protect my roses. The bagged soils here are alkaline clay, pH near 8.

Here is a link that might be useful: Cornell University on midge

Hi Seaweed: Those 4 colors are great together. Top Notch is a nice orange, and your Neptune has a nice blue color. I love that bouquet !!

Thanks for the valuable experience and info, once again.

seaweedo212, Lovely sample of your beauties.

Hi Straw,

Is the little girl in the photo your baby? She is precious!

Hi Mas: One kind word can make my day .. Thank you !! There are 2 types of people: the giver, versus the taker in life. You, Seaweed, and aczqtn gave your time in posting pictures, which I appreciate very much.

I'm the giver: I share info. to save folks time & money, or making the same mistakes like I did. You are the giver in the same way, but much more with your cheerfulness, honesty, and passion for gardening.

There are also takers in forum: Those who give no input .. I don't mind. But some are takers by nit-picking and criticizing, although they have zero info. to share. They take by destroying others to feed their own ego or the need to control.

Mas, you are a blessing to this forum, without you and Seaweed, I wouldn't be here with the negative folks with a hidden agenda of their own.

Straw,

Thank you so much for your kind words! I enjoy sharing time and gardening thoughts and wisdom/mistakes through this forum. As you said before, gardening can be a lone ranger journey.

You are a very insightful person who is always willing to share her knowledge/findings. :)

I'm rereading the old post I'm refinding! I hope you continue to post all you thoughts and experiments. Those who actually do and then share to help others are some of the most important people on this planet. Without them I would be sick and without hope. Because of such efforts to inform, I have been resolving my health issues one by one for the last 10 years without the benefit of insurance and conventional medical doctors.

Same with your valuable take on growing organically. We need the help that you offer. I highly value the results of all your efforts in understanding the effects of applied nutrients.
Just know that your postings are one of the reasons I joined GardenWeb in the first place.

Hi aztcqn: Your posting and Jim & Mas & Msdorkgirl & Cottagegarden are what kept me going in this forum. Years ago I posted the same stuff in regular rose forums and got nit-picked for that & was ready to quit altogether.

I agree with you, aztcqn, about " I have been resolving my health issues one by one for the last 10 years without the benefit of insurance and conventional medical doctors." SAME HERE: I'm very appreciate of the people who share their experience on-line, be it medical or gardening. I learn lots from you & Jim & others. Despite having 3 siblings as M.D. ... I solved my family's health problems through the internet, rather than through my siblings.

Due to my background in chemistry I like to experiment, and MADE TONS OF MISTAKES ... so I share my mistakes to save others time & money in making the same mistakes as I did. 30 years of growing roses, and I finally achieve the impossible: over 60 buds on Crown Princess Magareta (each stem holds 10 to 6 buds) .. zero black spots, zero rose slugs. I dumped the entire bag of red-lava-rock on that rose last year, since the soil was eroding on that steep hill. I gave it some chicken-manure late winter & early spring, due to drastic winter-kill to less than a foot (zone 5a). Everyone soil & climate is different ... so that lava-rock doesn't work for hot climate, warm rocks attract spider-mites.

My Chicagoland zone 5a is a 4-seasons: We get cold & wet spring, then hot & dry summer (up to 90 & 100 degree), then wet & humid early fall. In the dry & hot month: alfalfa hay and cocoa mulch work great a mulch .. but both of these become nasty in wet months: cocoa mulch promote black spots, and alfalfa hay encourage rose slugs. So in cold & wet spring, I dumped red-lava rocks for rain to leach out the potassium. Then in dry & hot summer, I dumped horse manure on top (dry & fluffy). Cocoa mulch works well also in hot & dry summer, and promotes many times more blooming than horse manure.

Too bad I can't edit the previous post in June 1, but just a note that I DID apply cocoa mulch on top of red-lava-rock in this month-long of constant rain and high humidity, with mushrooms on the lawn. Zero black spots whatsoever on all my roses today June 23, after record-rain. So red-lava-rock at pH 8.2 works as a buffer to neutralize the acidity of rain, despite cocoa mulch at pH 5.4 to 5.8. Rain pH is around 6 in my Chicagoland, but more acidic on the east coast at pH 5.6, according to Wikipedia.

The only spot which cocoa mulch germinated both orange mold, and whitish mold is on a tomato plant. I dug that up and the soil was heavy clay. Yes it's on a tall raised-bed, but the heavy clay stopped the heavy rain from draining fast enough. Conclusion: cocoa mulch is OK to use in heavy rain, if the soil is loamy with good-drainage. Cocoa mulch is safe for pets, if it's watered in right after application to get rid of the chocolate smell. Few reports of dogs eating that and got sick. I always apply cocoa mulch right before a heavy rain, I don't have pets, and my backyard is fenced in.

Below is one-branch cluster-blooming of Crown Princess Magareta. That has red-lava rocks as topping, zero cocoa mulch. Lots of blooms, but the color is faded, thanks to high pH of red-lava rock at 8.2. That's why I use cocoa mulch at pH 5.4 to bring the pH down for deeper colors:

Perennials like red lava rock (high potassium, iron, and boron). Picture below is snapdragon flowers on red-lava-rock mulch. I didn't plant those flowers, they self-seeded themselves from last year.