Picture?

How's this?

I looked the plants over carefully again and find that the shape of pods is quite variable. The ones in the photo are typical (if there is any typical) but there are some which are more elongated and heart shaped. I see some resemblance to Anchos, but more differences.

This is my first time growing Anchos and I expected much larger pods, like the Poblanos I purchase at the store. Also, the dried Anchos I have purchased many times were a very dark brownish or blackish brick red. I doubt that these would dry to that color. Do Anchos ever have a bright red color phase?

I really don't know what I have here.

Jim

How can I be assured of getting the true Poblano/Ancho seed next time. Some seed houses have several varieties. Can you suggest one or two named varieties which would be the authentic Mexican type?

Jim

Get seeds from a reliable source...

Stokes is one that carries this type

Each year I grow several vanities from Tomato Growers Supply, iooking for large, easy to roast peel size, with noticible heat. I always get some small, distorted peppers like yours. Ancho Villa is larger a uniform, but not spicy.

Thanks, Nanelle. My criteria for Anchos are the same as yours.

The bad news is that I was planning to order from TGS, hoping to get a good Ancho. The good news is that you tipped me off. Oh, well. The search goes on. Let us know if you find the answer.

Anybody have success growing nice Anchos?

Jim

I got my poblano from Johnny's seed which has always been a reliable supplier to me.

This nice young poblano is from Johnny's seed.

That's an attractive Poblano, Willard, and a nice pic.

How large did those get? It seems like it is difficult to grow decent sized Poblanos for some unknown reason.

My original plan was to grow enough so I could use them for chiles rellenos and other things when green, then dry a lot of ripe ones as Anchos. I'll need a lot better crop to do that. A fall back plan would be to grow Anaheims for fresh use and buy the dried Anchos, which are available at a reasonable price at an on-line place someone recently posted.

Jim

The chile got 5-6" long.

Try Johnny's seed.

Thanks, Willard. That is helpful.

Jim

Jimster,

Have you tried going to a Mexican food market and getting a cello pack of dried pods off the spice racks? That way you can get the shape, size, and taste profile you're looking for.

Test germinate several seeds to see if they're viable. If they sprout, grow a couple in 12" pots over the winter to see if they produce what it is you're after.

If so, you're ready with seed for spring and a head start on two mature plants to boot.

Bill

Bill,

I did that with some Guajillos last spring and the seeds were not viable. I'm up for trying again though. Might get lucky.

Today I bought a couple of Chilacas and took the seeds out. Of course, they are not ripe, but seeds may be viable anyway. We shall see.

Jim

BTW, if those Chilaca seeds aren't viable, it's thirteen cents right down the drain.

Jim

Jim,

Yeah, that's why I occasionally buy a few fresh or dried peppers from Oriental and Hispanic food markets. What the heck ... you might hit the jackpot once in a while or at worst ... get nothing for a few cents.

Anyway, check this out ... here is a discription I ran across at an online seed vendor:

"PASILLA or Chile Negro is not the Ancho Poblano which is often sold in the west as a Pasilla. If you go into a supermarket, you will usually see the big dark green heart shaped Ancho with a Pasilla sign in front of it. If you look at the dried chiles you will find a long black chile which is also labled Pasilla. This is the real one. This is often dried and used to make moles. When eaten fresh it is called Chilaca. This chile has a unique flavor and is about a 3 on the heat scale. It is also shown as Chilaca on the FRESCO and Pasilla on the SECO Chile Posters. Another Holy Trinity member."

Does that have anything to do with your Ancho question in the original post?

Here is the link: Tough Love Chile Company

Bill

Jim,

Oops, I think I posted a link above to the Ancho description rather than the Pasilla description.

Here you go: Pasilla Description

Bill

Bill,

It's indirectly related to the Ancho question. I've been attempting to grow the holy trinity of Mexican chiles. That would be Anchos, Mulatos and Pasillas. I use these often. I also use Jalapenos. It has been frustrating. You have seen the Anchos I grew. The supposed Pasillas were evern further off. They looked nothing like Pasillas or Anchos and are nearly as mild as a bell pepper. The only success was the Jalapenos. I got a good crop. They are very nice looking and hot as the devil. A little too hot for Jalpenos actually, but better that than too mild.

The Chilacas I bought at the supermarket are the real thing. With a lot of luck I will have Chilacas/Pasillas from them next year. Otherwise I will try to buy the right seed.

Jim

Jim,

In Creole cooking the "Holy Trinity" is onion, bell pepper, and celery sweated out in olive oil before adding roux, tomato products, etc. It's an aromatic flavoring medium. In French cooking, the "Trinity" aromatics are carrot, celery, and onion (or shallot) for a soup, stock, or ragout. In both cases they usually add parsley, but the Creoles still refer to the "Holy Trinity."

Anyway, what I'm asking is, when you say that Anchos, Mulatos, and Pasillas are the Holy Trinity of Chilies, does that mean that it's standard for all three peppers to be used together to develop a taste profile in a single dish? Or is there some other meaning?

Bill

Bill.

Yes. Those three chiles are often used together for making a mole, adobo or similar sauce. They are basic. Sometimes other chiles are included, together with several herbs and spices, for even more complexity. Mexican cuisine, when well prepared, is subtle and complex (not to be confused with delicate). Most Americans don't realize that because the food in most restaurants, good as it might be, is not the haute cuisine of Mexico.

I highly recommend Diana Kennedy's great book, "The Cuisines of Mexico" for anyone wanting to explore Mexican cooking. It's a classic.

Bill, I'm acquainted with the other Holy Trinities you mentioned. I often use the French one. It's good for Italian dishes too. It always makes a dish tasty.

Jim

Don't get me wrong! I've been okay with my pepper seeds from TGS. Some of the peppers are beautiful, all are tasty, a few, or parts of a few are hot. It's just that I haven't labled well, at least the harvested peppers, and they have been inconsistant. Here are pictures of this years crop, including Ancho Ranchero, Villa, 101 and San Martin.

Here is a link that might be useful: pepper pictures

Nanelle,

Maybe inconsistency was the trouble here too. Three plants produced two pods which actually look like Poblanos. This occurred recently and although the plants have grown tall, they haven't produced well. Pods developed so slowly. The plants are loaded with blossoms now though. Maybe Poblanos need a very long growing season?

BTW, I couldn't open your pics.

Jim

Jim,

Thanks for the tips.

I've delved deeply into Italian and Creole cooking mostly in association with owning a pizzaria, and entering BBQ and chili contests where I used Cajun and Creole taste profiles to enhance the recipes.

I might interject here that helped in the BBQ contests, but I really should investigate a more sophisticated use of chile peppers for chili recipes since the judges in those contests follow a much tighter standard regarding taste profiles.

In the BBQ contests it's mostly "doneness, tenderness, bark, fire ring, presentation, taste of the meat and bark," and then only lastly the taste of the BBQ sauce itself. Some may have different experiences, but that's my observation. For example, the last Mephis rules contest I was in, two of the onsite judges said my pork butt and BBQ sauce was the best matched of any they had tasted, yet I placed 8th out of 32 that year largely because I was smoking on a 55-gallon drum, only had two shoulders to present when it would've taken at least 4 to present each set of judges with an untouched cut and still send choice pieces to the blind judges, and the fact that the big boys like Airport, etc., all have big fancy rigs and lots of ambience or whatever.

I have done much better with a bigger rig that has water pans, etc. I did 4th, 1st, and Grand Champion at the same Memphis rules contest prior to my downfall. But that's all another story.

With regard to chile peppers in cooking, I have the good fortune of living in a town where there are several Mexican expatriots who operate family restaurants, most of whom also operated restaurants in Mexico. Also, I have a friend over in Carbondale, IL who has a Mexican family operating his restaurant kitchen, and his Mamacita's authentic recipes over there are superb, (although rather heavy on the cilantro for my tastes). So, I have never had to try to replicate the taste with so much access to the real deal right here I guess.

However, now that I have had to radically change my diet following heart surgery, I need to follow your cook book recommendation and look into authentic Mexican recipes so I can get that flavor at home while trying to cut out the fat and reduce the salt commonly rampant in restaurant fare.

This mixing of different kinds of chile peppers, and the drying, smoking, and processing of various types, etc. is intriguing stuff. I think I'll delve into it. Again, thanks for the tips .

Bill

Bill,

You're way ahead of me when it comes to BBQ. I've only dabbled. My goal is to make it to the sort of specs you describe. Sauce is secondary. You want the sauce to taste good, but the meat takes center stage and can taste just fine without any sauce if it's good.

Making low fat Mexican food will be a challenge. Fat (lard, traditionally) is an important ingredient. But, with your creativity and knowledge of cooking, you can do it. Those Mexican families in your area undoubtedly can cook the haute cuisine, but keep in mind that they may not be serving it in their restaurants. I'm not knocking their restaurants. They are surely better and more authentic than the chains and I definitely would patronize them myself. Even in Mexico however, restaurants tend to serve the simpler things, not the truly special dishes. Get acquainted with them and show your interest. They will want to show off some of their best home cooking.

That reminds me of a Chinese restaurant we used to frequent, where we became friends of the owners. We went there at least once a month for years and they served at least one dish new to us nearly every time. Their menu looked just like all the others but we never needed to look at it, we just let the owners suggest things, most of which were not on the menu.

Getting back to Mexico, my chili con carne has benefitted tremendously from learning about Mexican sauces. I know chili is Tex-Mex or Southwestern, not Mexican, but I use Mexican ingredients and cooking principles to make it really good. Dianna Kennedy's recipe for Puerco en Adobo is a good place to start. Yeah, it's pork, not beef, but the sauce is classic.

Jim

Jimster;My anchos seem to thrive with the cooler weather of fall. More flowers,larger peppers. For me this is about September to December. BTW, I roasted some Anco Villa today and they were a little spicy. Not sure what's happening with the pics, although I was working on them today, and had some trouble as well. Maybe I was editing while you were looking?

Nanelle,

Your pics are coming up fine now. They are very interesting.

I'm thinking I may still get some decent Anchos if the weather holds. Our fall season usually lasts a long time, although not so long as yours.

Jim

"You want the sauce to taste good, but the meat takes center stage and can taste just fine without any sauce if it's good."

Jim, that's exactly right. The meat should be the sole star. The sauce is a condiment which a person may use or not by choice rather than a mandatory, sticky coating.

What I have done is to develop rubs that accent the particular meat that is being smoked and help develop a bark that has good color without caramelizing to the point of carbonizing. Also, the fire ring or smoke ring beneath the bark is very important for presentation and for flavor.

I also use a mop or dip to moisten the surface of the meat as it smokes so the bark does not get to black, and to help tenderize and flavor the meat. This mop liquid is very watery, and for pork contains vinegar, apple juice, red pepper pods, whole allspice, other spices, soy sauce, Worchestershire, etc., and generally would qualify as a very watery "teryaki" type thing. Kind of like a black version of Eastern Carolina sauce.

For beef, I wouldn't use apple juice, and would probably use cumin rather than allspice. And for chicken I would probably use pineapple juice and some curry flavors instead; and allspice if I'm goin' for jerk.

But this chili thing really has me intrigued. I need to get way more knowledgable about the mole sauces, etc., so I can develop a really complicated taste profile for the chili.

There is one very nice Senora who is moving her restaurant from downtown to the east side of town. I have become friendly with her and taken her a lot of the hot peppers I grow. Another Senora manages the Smoky Bones where one of my daughters has been working while going to college. My daughter takes her a lot of peppers too.

Jim, you're right, I really should ask these two Senoras to give me the lowdown. Then next summer, I should grow the right varieties to do that genuine thing and win the local Texas rules chili cookoff. The prize is a ticket to the national in Las Vegas!

Bill

Bill,

I would be very proud if you won and if I had played any small part in nudging you toward that win. Best of luck and enjoy all your tasty experiments.

Jim

The guy at our farmers market has one with perfect heat. He says it's Ancho "Tiburon". Here's a link comparing Ancho 211, Ancho Villa, Ancho Tiburon, and Ancho Ventura.

Here is a link that might be useful: Ancho trials

Here's another comparison I googled; Sorry; didn't copy the credits;
VARIETY, SEED SOURCE, DAYS TO POD COLOR, FRUIT CHARACTERISTICS, AND HEAT OF SELECTED HOT PEPPER VARIETIES

Tiburon F1 Ancho Siegers 81 Tapered GÂR 1,000-3,000 Â
Ancho San Luis OP Ancho Seminis 78 Blunt point GÂR 1,500-4,500 Â
Ancho San Martin F1 Ancho Seminis 75 Tapered GÂR Â Â
Ancho 101 OP Ancho Rupp 78 Tapered GÂR 1,000-1,500 Â
Andy F1 Cayenne JohnnyÂs 65 Thin GÂR Â TMV

Thanks, Nanelle. The additional information is much appreciated.

Jim

I grow Mulato Isleno, a poblano-type that ripens to a deep chololate brown. They're fairly mild, but I think it's because they needs a long season and aren't usually ripening until September. I used the last of my six year old seed pack this year and saved two plants for over-wintering inside. I don't remember where the seeds came from, but it might have been Totally Tomatoes. Which no longer lists the variety.

Mulato Isleno is easy to find. I'll try that one, since you apparently like it. How large did the pods get in your garden?

Poblanos are normally mild. In either fresh/green or dried/ripe form, I use them in large amounts. For example, some sauces I make contain no tomato at all, just chile pulp. And these sauces are still mild enough for practically anyone to eat. If I need heat, I add some chipotle or other hotter chile.

Jim

But realize Mulato Isleno is a long season pepper and you'll be picking others a month (or more) before you get one of these. I can't say the flavor is better than earlier ripening Poblanos, but the look is awesome. Even if not fully brown when picked, they will be after a few days on the counter. I think the peppers have reached 6", but they usually run out of growing season before reaching that size.

11 years later, still trying Tiburon, and they look to be my best poblano ever!

Also growing Poblano 211, the only other Poblanos I've found listed as medium, and no peppers yet.

Wow, talk about dedication, CONGRATS!

Hello, my name is Nanelle, and I'm an addict!

Wow, an 11 year bump. First time for everything.

Congrats on that though. Im surprised you remembered this existed 11 years later?

I am still active here (I did take several years on other forums), still love growing anchos, always search before I ask questions, and happened upon this!

Ancho is a dried poblano and they are treated very differently where they are sold, ie, they are not the same chile. Poblano is green, ancho is dried.

Ahhh Willard, this whole Pablano/Ancho ID thing has gone kind of wonky, especially when big name plant/seed sellers kinda "roll-em" up, Poblano-Ancho Hot Pepper and databases call the green/ripe fruit Anchos. You are correct, What Is an Ancho Chile Pepper? but as long as they don't start calling them the wrong variety, Types of Red Chiles, I'll live with that.

And if you want to start splitting hairs my friend, "Ancho is a dried ""RED"" poblano and they are treated very differently where they are sold, ie, they are not the same chile. Poblano is green, ancho is dried ""RED"" Pablano." (;>))

Lions and Tigers And Bears, oh my!> ANCHO SAN LUIS

Ooops! I did mean poblanos, but for what is wrth, I usually pick them red.